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Author Topic: my theory on islam  (Read 2706 times) Average Rating: 0
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phil2190
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« on: August 14, 2013, 04:46:21 PM »

i feel that people are attracted to islam  due to political correctness gay rights and high divorce rates act. for example most leftists blame( not saying it didn't happen ) the opression of women, jews, gays, atheists, ect on the west .  women have a lobby and can get divorced for no reason at all. most leftist philosophy( politicaly correct ) lies in simply complsaining about how people were treated in the past and critiquing liturature that was in most cases intended for something else. im greek and ive considered islam why simply put the patriarchy because who wants to be constantly reminded that you ancestors are fags or mabey you french and you smell band or are italian and are in the mafia the main problem lies in political correctness which muslims do not have to play by 
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 04:50:43 PM »

I am amazed by deep thoughts of thine.
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2013, 05:19:49 PM »

with respect to political correct ness most leftist claim to hate the west because it is rasist ethnocentric warlike imperialistic sexist but were these attributes appear in cultures like saudi arabia only women are allowed to attack them WHY because leftist must identify with something that is weak or that has an image of being defeated like gay people or oppressed women which is were the hatred of western civilization comes into play name one really great achievement that saudiarabia has made ever leftists hate the west because they have achieved very little in their life this prevents christianity from organizing itself like islam
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2013, 05:24:50 PM »

What the hell are you talking about?

You know lots of Muslim countries hang gay people, right? So where did you get the idea that they support them out of political correctness? (I really hope I read your post wrong, and given your 'style,' it's entirely possible that I did and so will everyone else.)

Did you read too much Robert Spencer and then bump your head or something?
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2013, 05:25:46 PM »

no im saying that we are forced to and muslims use that against us
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2013, 05:26:50 PM »

we are force to be tolerant towars people regardless of weather they are disabled, their gender, race, religion, income, ect its called liberalism. and its crap
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2013, 05:28:07 PM »

we are force to be tolerant towars people regardless of weather they are disabled, their gender, race, religion, income, ect its called liberalism. and its crap

Okay, let's see this get moved into Politics.
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2013, 05:30:50 PM »

liberalism is  not political its philisophical it just means everybodie is treaded as an individual but we cannot judge entire groups of people that is were lables such as intolerance and racism and entnocentrism come from and no matter how illogical somebodies point of view is we must respect it
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2013, 05:31:30 PM »

and its poision do not believe this nonsense
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2013, 05:32:00 PM »

liberalism is  not political its philisophical it just means everybodie is treaded as an individual but we cannot judge entire groups of people that is were lables such as intolerance and racism and entnocentrism come from and no matter how illogical somebodies point of view is we must respect it

Do you just let your cat use the phone?
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2013, 05:33:18 PM »

Are you ******* kidding me? Homosexuals, fornicators, and adulterers are burned alive, hung, tortured, and beheaded in Muslim countries. Islam is just as "politically incorrect" in regards to tolerance as Christianity is, only difference is that Islam punishes these things (something we should perhaps implement, although in a less harsh manner), whereas Christianity teaches not to judge one another with the threat of being judged for the same sin.

The liberal West is attracted to Islam because let's face it, American Christians are perhaps some of the stupidest people ever. They are behind pretty much all bigotry and idiocy in the West, and they HATE Islam with a burning passion. Liberals are attracted to Islam because it pisses off the American Christians that they are trying to rebel against, who they view as the enemy. It's the same logic as a rebellious teenage girl dating the bad-boy to anger her incompetent mother.
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2013, 05:36:31 PM »

 I dare say that if any take over by Muslims in our country I would have to pity the Gay, transgender, Liberal crowd since it is their outlook on life that is in dire contradiction to Sharia Law.  They ought to be lucky they live in a country that is mostly tolerant of their abominations.   The very folks that coddle up to Islamism are the very ones who would be the first to be persecuted.
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2013, 05:37:55 PM »

I dare say that if any take over by Muslims in our country I would have to pity the Gay, transgender, Liberal crowd since it is their outlook on life that is in dire contradiction to Sharia Law.  They ought to be lucky they live in a country that is mostly tolerant of their abominations.

And that they have swell friends like you.
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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2013, 05:39:50 PM »

I dare say that if any take over by Muslims in our country I would have to pity the Gay, transgender, Liberal crowd since it is their outlook on life that is in dire contradiction to Sharia Law.  They ought to be lucky they live in a country that is mostly tolerant of their abominations.

And that they have swell friends like you.

Oh, are we getting personal here.  Suffice it to say that the mindset of a Liberal is in contrast to what a Muslim believes.
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2013, 05:42:00 PM »

Well, you were this close to sounding like you wish the same thing would happen to them. You don't seem to be in a rush to protect them, either.
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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2013, 05:42:43 PM »

Well, you were this close to sounding like you wish the same thing would happen to them. You don't seem to be in a rush to protect them, either.

Who is the "them"...?
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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2013, 05:52:20 PM »

^Bill Clinton?
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2013, 05:55:15 PM »

^Bill Clinton?

Makes as much sense as anything phil's phone barfed up, so sure.
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2013, 06:01:56 PM »

^Bill Clinton?

Maybe I wasn't being clear so here goes again: The modern day Progressive is very sympathetic to Islam. All we have to do is read an Internet headline to figure this out.  Knowing the Progressives proclivity to cuddle the GLT communities more that a traditionalist might, He, the Progressive, would be more susceptible to the consternations of Muslim groups in general, notwithstanding the hard core Islamists themselves.   Don't get me wrong, I don't want anything to happen to anyone, but some folks just cant leave others alone.  Right now we are having our hands full in the Middle East.  I don't want to see this area of the world once dominated by the Orthodox Christians fall totally to the Muslim world that they want.
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2013, 06:06:02 PM »

I dare say that if any take over by Muslims in our country I would have to pity the Gay, transgender, Liberal crowd since it is their outlook on life that is in dire contradiction to Sharia Law.  They ought to be lucky they live in a country that is mostly tolerant of their abominations.

And that they have swell friends like you.

Oh, are we getting personal here.  Suffice it to say that the mindset of a Liberal is in contrast to what a Muslim believes.

I would say that the mindset of Christ in the Gospels is also in contrast to the radical things that extremist believe in, If Muslims are your enemies than Jesus said to love them, for what does it profit you if you only love those who love you. Matt 5:44
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2013, 06:10:15 PM »

...let's face it, American Christians are perhaps some of the stupidest people ever.

I suspect I assign this notion a wider application than you probably do. 
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2013, 06:10:23 PM »

I dare say that if any take over by Muslims in our country I would have to pity the Gay, transgender, Liberal crowd since it is their outlook on life that is in dire contradiction to Sharia Law.  They ought to be lucky they live in a country that is mostly tolerant of their abominations.

And that they have swell friends like you.

Oh, are we getting personal here.  Suffice it to say that the mindset of a Liberal is in contrast to what a Muslim believes.

I would say that the mindset of Christ in the Gospels is also in contrast to the radical things that extremist believe in, If Muslims are your enemies than Jesus said to love them, for what does it profit you if you only love those who love you. Matt 5:44

Yes, I also believe this as well.  But I don't think the Muslim religion has anything like this thinking in their Quran.  eg Turning the other cheek, etc.
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2013, 06:22:50 PM »

Did you ever ask a former Muslim what drew them to Islam in general??

If you would like to really know versus assume I can gladly tell you, as I was Muslim for 10yr.
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2013, 06:26:54 PM »

Did you ever ask a former Muslim what drew them to Islam in general??

If you would like to really know versus assume I can gladly tell you, as I was Muslim for 10yr.

Good, then I can ask: How does love fit into the everyday life of a Muslim.  We as Christians are to love our neighbor as ourselves, is there a similar quote in the Quran?  I hear that Love doesn't play as an important role in Islam but tolerance and submissiveness do.  Thank you
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« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2013, 06:38:05 PM »

Did you ever ask a former Muslim what drew them to Islam in general??

If you would like to really know versus assume I can gladly tell you, as I was Muslim for 10yr.

Good, then I can ask: How does love fit into the everyday life of a Muslim.  We as Christians are to love our neighbor as ourselves, is there a similar quote in the Quran?  I hear that Love doesn't play as an important role in Islam but tolerance and submissiveness do.  Thank you

OK, I can't speak for all Muslims or former Muslims, but you hit the nail on the head. What many converts (don't know about born Muslims) often do is to confuse that submission and Master/Slave relationship with love. There is no mention of love in the Quran, at least not that I can recall and this includes between people and Allah and the person. Muslims must love Allah, however Allah offers no promise of love in return, only fear of what happens if you disobey. At this point in time I don't see much tolerance in Islam either...probably since the salafists wouldn't find it tolerable to allow me to live after leaving Islam. Now let me say the word love appears in transliterations of the Quran! But having an Arabic speaker who will tell you what the real Arabic Quran says or knowing enough to read yourself, you won't find it mentioned.

Yes the Quran says "None of you have faith until you love thy neighbor what you love for thyself" but on the flipside, if your neighbor is a Jew there are other verses that negate this and say it is OK to pretty much hate them. Love thy Muslim neighbor?
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« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2013, 07:29:24 PM »

I am no expert on Islam, But what I have read informs that there are different schools of thought just as there are in our religion, and that love for your neighbor is something that is practiced by most Muslims .

It is just as wrong for us to categorize them by the extremists Muslim, as it is for them to categorize us by the extremist Christian.
 
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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2013, 07:52:35 PM »

I am no expert on Islam, But what I have read informs that there are different schools of thought just as there are in our religion, and that love for your neighbor is something that is practiced by most Muslims .

It is just as wrong for us to categorize them by the extremists Muslim, as it is for them to categorize us by the extremist Christian.
 

This is true. However the poster asked about Islam not Muslims themselves. I have many peaceful Muslim friends still but if they followed their religion fully then it would go something like this:


Oh you who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)


That is what Islam says. Muslims can choose if they follow this or not.
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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2013, 08:11:01 PM »

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Oh you who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)

I think you are misquoting that or not mistranslating it from the Arabic.

I have heard Muslim scholars explain it a little differently from the Koranic text.

It doesn't mean ALL Jews and Christians.

Are you or do you speak/read Arabic by any chance?
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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2013, 08:15:43 PM »

I am no expert on Islam, But what I have read informs that there are different schools of thought just as there are in our religion, and that love for your neighbor is something that is practiced by most Muslims .

It is just as wrong for us to categorize them by the extremists Muslim, as it is for them to categorize us by the extremist Christian.
 

This is true. However the poster asked about Islam not Muslims themselves. I have many peaceful Muslim friends still but if they followed their religion fully then it would go something like this:


Oh you who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)


That is what Islam says. Muslims can choose if they follow this or not.


Yup. Tafsir al-Tabari on this verse says:
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قال أبو جعفر: يعني تعالى ذكره بقوله: " ومن يتولهم منكم فإنه منهم "، ومن يتولَّ اليهود والنصارى دون المؤمنين، فإنه منهم. يقول: فإن من تولاهم ونصرَهم على المؤمنين، فهو من أهل دينهم وملتهم

"Abu Jafar al-Tabari said: Meaning, 'and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them' Whoever allies with the Jews and Christians over the believers, then he is one of them. And whoever allies with them and supports them over the believers he is one of their religion and their faith." (Translation mine)

http://qurancomplex.org/Quran/tafseer/Tafseer.asp?nSora=5&t=tabary&l=arb&nAya=51#5_51

So it affirms the interpretation that Muslims become apostates from their faith. The whole verse seems more likely in context about alliances than actual friendship. But the more important context is that this friendship is favoring the Jews and Christians over "the believers" (i.e., the Muslims).

Edit: Charles Martel, Muslims are allowed to lie when they are in a state of war.

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1352. Abu Hurairah and Jabir (May Allah be pleased with them) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "War is deception."

[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

Commentary: "Khad'ah" means deception, i.e., employing a strategy which causes misunderstanding to the enemy, and one's real intent does not become evident to them. This is permissible in Islam in the state of war.

The Ahadith mentioned in this chapter make the importance of Jihad and the reason for so much stress on it abundantly clear. These also show how great a crime it is to ignore it. It is very unfortunate indeed that present-day Muslims are guilty of renouncing Jihad in every part of the world. May Allah help us to overcome this negligence.

http://www.guidedways.com/riadusaleheen/chapter_display.php?book=11&chapter=234

Furthermore, all schools of Islamic thought teach jihad. Hanafi, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Maliki schools of Sunni and the Jafari (which was named after the guy I just quoted) of the Shia.

Even ancient schools like the Thawri school, and the Zahiri school teach it.

The Zahiri school ruled Spain before they were destroyed by the Reconquista.
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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2013, 08:16:25 PM »

Quote
Oh you who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)

I think you are misquoting that or not mistranslating it from the Arabic.

I have heard Muslim scholars explain it a little differently from the Koranic text.

It doesn't mean ALL Jews and Christians.

Are you or do you speak/read Arabic by any chance?
I do.  What's your question?
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« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2013, 08:18:04 PM »

People are drawn to Strength. Islam is going to keep gaining ground in Europe until there's an alternative.
When people think of Christianity they think of the Nietzsche view of a slave religion, while Islam is a conquerors religion.
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« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2013, 08:34:27 PM »

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Oh you who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)

I think you are misquoting that or not mistranslating it from the Arabic.

I have heard Muslim scholars explain it a little differently from the Koranic text.

It doesn't mean ALL Jews and Christians.

Are you or do you speak/read Arabic by any chance?

I am not Arab, I speak Arabic but reading is a no-go. The above is directly from my English Quran I had sitting in the top of my closet so the translator goofed it if anyone. Scholars can explain stuff in a multitude of ways depending on their school of though, level of faith, etc.

I see nowhere in that verse where it says select Jews and Christians. Can you tell me where it is mentions how I tell a good, company worthy Christian from one Muslims need to keep away from?
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« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2013, 08:39:23 PM »

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Oh you who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)

I think you are misquoting that or not mistranslating it from the Arabic.

I have heard Muslim scholars explain it a little differently from the Koranic text.

It doesn't mean ALL Jews and Christians.

Are you or do you speak/read Arabic by any chance?
I do.  What's your question?
Are you familiar with that koranic text he/she quoted about Jews and Chriatians not "allying" with Moslems?

Didn't Mohamed ally with Jews and Christians against the pagans early in his "ministry"?

Weren't they even part of his "Ummah" at one time?
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« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2013, 08:48:12 PM »

Quote
Are you familiar with that koranic text he/she quoted about Jews and Chriatians not "allying" with Moslems?

Didn't Mohamed ally with Jews and Christians against the pagans early in his "ministry"?

Weren't they even part of his "Ummah" at one time?

The Ummah is the body of Muslims, not of non-Muslims. I don't know if he allied "early" with the Jews and Christians. Later, they were called the Ahzab or "Confederates" against him.
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« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2013, 08:58:06 PM »

Quote
Are you familiar with that koranic text he/she quoted about Jews and Chriatians not "allying" with Moslems?

Didn't Mohamed ally with Jews and Christians against the pagans early in his "ministry"?

Weren't they even part of his "Ummah" at one time?

The Ummah is the body of Muslims, not of non-Muslims. I don't know if he allied "early" with the Jews and Christians. Later, they were called the Ahzab or "Confederates" against him.
I'm pretty sure he did. As a matter of fact, some Jews betrayed him to the pagans during a critical battle and then they paid dearly for it later. But he befriended some others that helped finance him during his struggle to take back Mecca.
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« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2013, 09:07:14 PM »

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The apostle wrote a document... in which he made a friendly agreement with the Jews. The Life of Muhammad p.231

So, you seem to be right about that. What point are you trying to make? That the verse can be interpreted in that context?
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« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2013, 09:56:14 PM »

The very folks that coddle up to Islamism are the very ones who would be the first to be persecuted.

I don't know very many progressives or LGBT people who are sympathetic to conservative/traditional (I can't think of a better term) Islam. Most are no more friendly to it than they are to Christianity.  I can understand why you might think that if you get your info from the mainstream media, but rest assured, on the ground things are much different.  

I dare say that if any take over by Muslims in our country I would have to pity the Gay, transgender, Liberal crowd since it is their outlook on life that is in dire contradiction to Sharia Law.  They ought to be lucky they live in a country that is mostly tolerant of their abominations.

And that they have swell friends like you.

Oh, are we getting personal here.  Suffice it to say that the mindset of a Liberal is in contrast to what a Muslim believes.

I have several Muslim friends and colleagues and every single one of them is far more liberal than I am.  Muslims are not necessarily any different than the rest of us.
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« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2013, 11:34:43 PM »

Quote
The apostle wrote a document... in which he made a friendly agreement with the Jews. The Life of Muhammad p.231

So, you seem to be right about that. What point are you trying to make? That the verse can be interpreted in that context?

See quote about "War is deception."

Some really hardline Muslims happen to think they are 'at war' with the non-Muslim world. Perhaps that friendly agreement was deceptive, too. Muhammed allied himself with a Jewish tribe called the Banu al-Nadir not by friendliness...but by killing their leader Huyyay ibn Akhtab, and forcing his teenage daughter Safiyyah into marriage. All those are the fine details that go along with said document. I have that book you're quoting, I took the University level "Life of Muhammed, Prophet of Islam" course.

He was liked by other tribes of Jews, however but not as many as one would assume.

Totally the most friendly way to make an agreement, by the way. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2013, 11:48:21 PM »

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See quote about "War is deception."

Some really hardline Muslims happen to think they are 'at war' with the non-Muslim world. Perhaps that friendly agreement was deceptive, too. Muhammed allied himself with a Jewish tribe called the Banu al-Nadir not by friendliness...but by killing their leader Huyyay ibn Akhtab, and forcing his teenage daughter Safiyyah into marriage. All those are the fine details that go along with said document. I have that book you're quoting, I took the University level "Life of Muhammed, Prophet of Islam" course.

He was liked by other tribes of Jews, however but not as many as one would assume.

Totally the most friendly way to make an agreement, by the way. Roll Eyes

I am well aware of it, I have been to lots of (Arabic) websites where that sentiment exists. I was even at my local Mosque and I got those sentiments. I have that book too, I just haven't had time to flip through it. I just took the quote from looking through the Table of Contents.

He also forced a Coptic woman Maria into marriage.
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« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2013, 12:22:26 AM »

Quote
See quote about "War is deception."

Some really hardline Muslims happen to think they are 'at war' with the non-Muslim world. Perhaps that friendly agreement was deceptive, too. Muhammed allied himself with a Jewish tribe called the Banu al-Nadir not by friendliness...but by killing their leader Huyyay ibn Akhtab, and forcing his teenage daughter Safiyyah into marriage. All those are the fine details that go along with said document. I have that book you're quoting, I took the University level "Life of Muhammed, Prophet of Islam" course.

He was liked by other tribes of Jews, however but not as many as one would assume.

Totally the most friendly way to make an agreement, by the way. Roll Eyes

I am well aware of it, I have been to lots of (Arabic) websites where that sentiment exists. I was even at my local Mosque and I got those sentiments. I have that book too, I just haven't had time to flip through it. I just took the quote from looking through the Table of Contents.

He also forced a Coptic woman Maria into marriage.

I meant to direct all that at Charles Martel...wasn't directing that at you but I goofed the quoting, my apologies!
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« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2013, 12:31:07 AM »

Did you ever ask a former Muslim what drew them to Islam in general??

If you would like to really know versus assume I can gladly tell you, as I was Muslim for 10yr.
I would like to know what drew you, and perhaps what draws othes, to Islam.
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« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2013, 01:43:38 AM »

Did you ever ask a former Muslim what drew them to Islam in general??

If you would like to really know versus assume I can gladly tell you, as I was Muslim for 10yr.
I would like to know what drew you, and perhaps what draws othes, to Islam.

I think it is different for women and men, at least that is the general consensus I get. Many women are very drawn not to wearing a hijab but the idea that Islam somehow promotes a woman only being judged for her inner beauty, her intelligence, and other non-physical aspects. I personally wanted to be a nun as a pre-teen and young teen, but I also wanted children. Islam seemed to give me the best of both of those worlds at the time. I happened to be raised in a very lax family where Christianity and the fine details of it were lost on me, and rather than dig deeper into the RCC I looked at Islam which I also thought answered any question I had about the nature of Christ.

Keep in mind I had never heard of Orthodoxy til my mid-twenties, and I became Muslim at 16. Safe to say if I had known about it before Islam, I would have skipped and went towards the GOC or COC.

I have seen a range of reasons why people are drawn to Islam, besides what I said. People searching for a second family, well you will find one among Muslims until you question Islam. I was always very loved and welcomed until that last year. I've seen women searching for men because there is technically no dating AKA instant husband, men looking for a few women at once, supposedly many former inmates become Muslim, some are drawn in by the Arab culture that has become so entwined with Islam, the means of worship, fasting, etc.

GabrieltheCelt is another person who may chime in if he checks out the thread.
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« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2013, 04:01:09 AM »

I'm pretty sure he did. As a matter of fact, some Jews betrayed him to the pagans during a critical battle and then they paid dearly for it later.

This is not true. Those Jews did not betray Muhammad. If they had done so, there would be no Islam today. That Jewish tribe actually trusted Muhammad and did not think a minute that he would apply to them the rules of war stated in Deuteronomy 20:10-14.
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« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2013, 10:27:52 AM »

Did you ever ask a former Muslim what drew them to Islam in general??

If you would like to really know versus assume I can gladly tell you, as I was Muslim for 10yr.
I would like to know what drew you, and perhaps what draws othes, to Islam.

I think it is different for women and men, at least that is the general consensus I get. Many women are very drawn not to wearing a hijab but the idea that Islam somehow promotes a woman only being judged for her inner beauty, her intelligence, and other non-physical aspects. I personally wanted to be a nun as a pre-teen and young teen, but I also wanted children. Islam seemed to give me the best of both of those worlds at the time. I happened to be raised in a very lax family where Christianity and the fine details of it were lost on me, and rather than dig deeper into the RCC I looked at Islam which I also thought answered any question I had about the nature of Christ.

Keep in mind I had never heard of Orthodoxy til my mid-twenties, and I became Muslim at 16. Safe to say if I had known about it before Islam, I would have skipped and went towards the GOC or COC.

I have seen a range of reasons why people are drawn to Islam, besides what I said. People searching for a second family, well you will find one among Muslims until you question Islam. I was always very loved and welcomed until that last year. I've seen women searching for men because there is technically no dating AKA instant husband, men looking for a few women at once, supposedly many former inmates become Muslim, some are drawn in by the Arab culture that has become so entwined with Islam, the means of worship, fasting, etc.

GabrieltheCelt is another person who may chime in if he checks out the thread.
You think that part of it is that actors/acresses in Hollywood are pressured to be all brauns and beauty, and that us average people turn away from that for something deeper?
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« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2013, 11:31:50 AM »

^Bill Clinton?

Maybe I wasn't being clear so here goes again: ...

 If you'll take a moment to read Biro's 'blog', you'll understand the necessity to be very concise and present your thoughts in a first grade level.
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