Author Topic: Canon 3 & 28  (Read 701 times)

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Offline gueranger

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Canon 3 & 28
« on: August 06, 2013, 01:20:17 AM »
Can someone enlighten me as to the relationship between Canon 3 of Constantinople I and Canon 28 of Chalcedon?

Why is there a debate over Canon 28 and not Canon 3, and why would Canon 28 be necessary if Constantinople I already gave Constantinople the honor after Rome. Did Rome contest Canon 3?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Canon 3 & 28
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2013, 10:44:33 AM »
Can someone enlighten me as to the relationship between Canon 3 of Constantinople I and Canon 28 of Chalcedon?

Why is there a debate over Canon 28 and not Canon 3, and why would Canon 28 be necessary if Constantinople I already gave Constantinople the honor after Rome. Did Rome contest Canon 3?
Canon 3 merely made Constantinople autocephalous, which, at the time, meant being independent of the Metropolitan of the province (in this case, Herekleia, whose Metropolitan to this day enthrones the new Archbishop of Constantinople at his election).  Canon 28 made it into a patriarchate, placing Metropolitans (of Thrace, Asia and Pontus) under the autocephalous bishop.

The debate is because the phanar has lately taken canon 28 to mean placing the whole Church under the autocephalous bishop, much like Old Rome claims for canon 6 of Nicea I
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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Offline gueranger

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Re: Canon 3 & 28
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2013, 11:09:58 AM »
Can someone enlighten me as to the relationship between Canon 3 of Constantinople I and Canon 28 of Chalcedon?

Why is there a debate over Canon 28 and not Canon 3, and why would Canon 28 be necessary if Constantinople I already gave Constantinople the honor after Rome. Did Rome contest Canon 3?
Canon 3 merely made Constantinople autocephalous, which, at the time, meant being independent of the Metropolitan of the province (in this case, Herekleia, whose Metropolitan to this day enthrones the new Archbishop of Constantinople at his election).  Canon 28 made it into a patriarchate, placing Metropolitans (of Thrace, Asia and Pontus) under the autocephalous bishop.

The debate is because the phanar has lately taken canon 28 to mean placing the whole Church under the autocephalous bishop, much like Old Rome claims for canon 6 of Nicea I

I'm still an Orthodox newbie. What is the Phanar?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Canon 3 & 28
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2013, 11:19:11 AM »
Can someone enlighten me as to the relationship between Canon 3 of Constantinople I and Canon 28 of Chalcedon?

Why is there a debate over Canon 28 and not Canon 3, and why would Canon 28 be necessary if Constantinople I already gave Constantinople the honor after Rome. Did Rome contest Canon 3?
Canon 3 merely made Constantinople autocephalous, which, at the time, meant being independent of the Metropolitan of the province (in this case, Herekleia, whose Metropolitan to this day enthrones the new Archbishop of Constantinople at his election).  Canon 28 made it into a patriarchate, placing Metropolitans (of Thrace, Asia and Pontus) under the autocephalous bishop.

The debate is because the phanar has lately taken canon 28 to mean placing the whole Church under the autocephalous bishop, much like Old Rome claims for canon 6 of Nicea I

I'm still an Orthodox newbie. What is the Phanar?
What the Vatican is to Old Rome, the Phanar is to New Rome. It's the district the Turks let the Orthodox keep in the city.  They call it Fener
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 11:36:39 AM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline vasily

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Re: Canon 3 & 28
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 09:32:24 AM »
 I have a question concerning Canon 28. Ws this cain ever accepted by Rome?

I have just finished reading Michael Whelton's book," Popes and Patriarchs." In his discussion on the Council of Chalcedon he states," Canon 28 was formally received into the canonical collection of the Eastern Church at the Council in Trullo in 690. It was finally accepted in the Western Church in 1274 at the Second Council of Lyons."

I cannot find anything that states Canon 28 was ever accepted. Please any real input.


Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Canon 3 & 28
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2014, 09:38:52 AM »

The debate is because the phanar has lately taken canon 28 to mean placing the whole Church under the autocephalous bishop, much like Old Rome claims for canon 6 of Nicea I

In Isa's World, at least.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 09:39:41 AM by Αριστοκλής »
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Offline Antonis

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Re: Canon 3 & 28
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2014, 10:06:07 AM »
The word "mythology" hasn't even been used in this thread yet. Wow.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Canon 3 & 28
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2014, 11:33:55 AM »
I have a question concerning Canon 28. Ws this cain ever accepted by Rome?

I have just finished reading Michael Whelton's book," Popes and Patriarchs." In his discussion on the Council of Chalcedon he states," Canon 28 was formally received into the canonical collection of the Eastern Church at the Council in Trullo in 690. It was finally accepted in the Western Church in 1274 at the Second Council of Lyons."

I cannot find anything that states Canon 28 was ever accepted. Please any real input.


It was accepted (at least the ranking) at their IV council of the Lateran (the see of Old Rome) in 1215, after its Crusaders exiled the EP and set up a Latin in Saint Sophia:
Quote
5. The dignity of the patriarchal sees

Renewing the ancient privileges of the patriarchal sees, we decree, with the approval of this sacred universal synod, that after the Roman church, which through the Lord's disposition has a primacy of ordinary power over all other churches inasmuch as it is the mother and mistress of all Christ's faithful, the church of Constantinople shall have the first place, the church of Alexandria the second place, the church of Antioch the third place, and the church of Jerusalem the fourth place, each maintaining its own rank. Thus after their pontiffs have received from the Roman pontiff the pallium, which is the sign of the fullness of the pontifical office, and have taken an oath of fidelity and obedience to him they may lawfully confer the pallium on their own suffragans, receiving from them for themselves canonical profession and for the Roman church the promise of obedience. They may have a standard of the Lord's cross carried before them anywhere except in the city of Rome or wherever there is present the supreme pontiff or his legate wearing the insignia of the apostolic dignity. In all the provinces subject to their jurisdiction let appeal be made to them, when it is necessary, except for appeals made to the apostolic see, to which all must humbly defer.
http://www.legionofmarytidewater.com/faith/ECUM12.HTM#5

It was followed almost immediately in Old Rome's Patriarchate, a fact that Abp. St. Leo I bemoaned to the Empress.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Canon 3 & 28
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2014, 11:35:40 AM »

The debate is because the phanar has lately taken canon 28 to mean placing the whole Church under the autocephalous bishop, much like Old Rome claims for canon 6 of Nicea I

In Isa's World, at least.
Third rock from the sun.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth