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Author Topic: Serious Question  (Read 5153 times) Average Rating: 0
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davillas
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« Reply #90 on: August 16, 2013, 07:20:14 PM »

What people don`t understand is that there is a reason for why we are told that there is no salvation outside the Church. Instead of accepting the Orthodox teaching, we start to question it especially in public, because we think we are smarter and more loving than our saints who lived centuries ago.
So the answer is Yes :
"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever." - St. Theophan the Recluse
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« Reply #91 on: August 16, 2013, 08:02:22 PM »

Quoting Orthodox bishops =! catching flies with vinegar

Threatening him with hellfire is. Good job pushing him away from the Church.

You really think someone who leaves the Orthodox Church can blame other people for that decision at the judgment? (It works so well in confession.)
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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« Reply #92 on: August 16, 2013, 08:04:50 PM »

There are only Orthodox Christians in Heaven.  That statement stands in contrast to something like "you must be ____________ to get in [i've always hated that formulation] to heaven."

How?

Because in heaven one beholds and partakes of the Truth. How, then, can one continue in illusion?
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« Reply #93 on: August 16, 2013, 08:06:14 PM »

What people don`t understand is that there is a reason for why we are told that there is no salvation outside the Church. Instead of accepting the Orthodox teaching, we start to question it especially in public, because we think we are smarter and more loving than our saints who lived centuries ago.
So the answer is Yes :
"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever." - St. Theophan the Recluse

+1
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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« Reply #94 on: August 16, 2013, 08:21:02 PM »

What people don`t understand is that there is a reason for why we are told that there is no salvation outside the Church. Instead of accepting the Orthodox teaching, we start to question it especially in public, because we think we are smarter and more loving than our saints who lived centuries ago.
So the answer is Yes :
"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever." - St. Theophan the Recluse

+1

+2
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« Reply #95 on: August 16, 2013, 08:52:24 PM »

I should have known better ...
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Deep Roots
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« Reply #96 on: August 17, 2013, 10:59:31 PM »

What people don`t understand is that there is a reason for why we are told that there is no salvation outside the Church. Instead of accepting the Orthodox teaching, we start to question it especially in public, because we think we are smarter and more loving than our saints who lived centuries ago.
So the answer is Yes :
"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever." - St. Theophan the Recluse

+1

+2
-2

(back to 0)

hehe
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Peace.
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« Reply #97 on: August 18, 2013, 12:33:21 AM »

antiochian-no
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« Reply #98 on: August 18, 2013, 01:00:54 AM »

antiochian-no
Thank you Gayle, but I sort of gave up on this thread.
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Mor Ephrem
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« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2013, 03:53:23 PM »

Guess it wasn't that serious after all.  Tongue
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« Reply #100 on: August 18, 2013, 09:04:41 PM »

Guess it wasn't that serious after all.  Tongue
Only to a handful of people.  But since when did that stop people who care more for themselves than other people.
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« Reply #101 on: August 18, 2013, 09:23:59 PM »

Guess it wasn't that serious after all.  Tongue
Only to a handful of people.  But since when did that stop people who care more for themselves than other people.

If the purpose of this thread was to see how long we could devolve into an argument after being given some simple instructions...
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« Reply #102 on: August 18, 2013, 09:26:48 PM »

Guess it wasn't that serious after all.  Tongue
Only to a handful of people.  But since when did that stop people who care more for themselves than other people.

If the purpose of this thread was to see how long we could devolve into an argument after being given some simple instructions...
It was not.  Although I did get enough from those who could follow simple instruction.  I had hoped to collect more input, but when 3 month old puppy attention spans abound, it's impossible.
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« Reply #103 on: August 21, 2013, 01:03:50 PM »

Because in heaven one beholds and partakes of the Truth. How, then, can one continue in illusion?
How will it be in heaven with all those relatives and in-laws that you couldn't get along with on earth?
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #104 on: August 21, 2013, 01:09:32 PM »

A question for a question, and an answer for an answer.
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.
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« Reply #105 on: August 21, 2013, 04:12:23 PM »

I don't think that will be a problem there! LOVE CONQUERS ALL!
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« Reply #106 on: August 21, 2013, 04:35:42 PM »

My answer would have to be: I don't know. I don't know what the fate of any individual will be. After all, God will save whom He will save. It's not up to me and it's not really any of my business. I have enough to do already.
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« Reply #107 on: September 08, 2013, 04:04:02 AM »

My church is Christ and if anyone is not in communion with Christ regardless of denomination, then that person is cast out into outer darkness.

Biblical definition of church: The ONE spiritual church purchased by the blood of the lamb of God made up of the body of believers from all Apostolic denominations who are connected to the Holy Ghost breath of Christ in the Great Commission.

The pertinent question is if you are a member of an Apostolic denomination but do not live your life according to the beatitudes of Christ and you then suddenly die, then will you be sent of into outer darkness?

The answer is YES!

So notwithstanding jurisdictions, denominational (doctrine, dogma, Tradition) or councils etc. if you are not in communion with Christ and his Holy Spirit then you are not his sheep, for that is what is taught in scripture.

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« Reply #108 on: September 08, 2013, 11:28:43 PM »

Serpentslayer have you ever study Church History? If so how much?
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« Reply #109 on: September 08, 2013, 11:43:54 PM »

Serpentslayer have you ever study Church History? If so how much?

I started afresh I unlearned everything that was taught to me and sought Christ's Holy Spirit as my wonderful counsellor to lead me to his truth and to set me free from the darkness of this world.

I have studied church history only from the point of view of the 1st Century Apostolic Church.

I was brought up in a denomination that is connected to the Holy Ghost breath of Christ, thanks be to God for that is where I was baptised.

I was indoctrinated by the denomination. I love it and I still support it according to the righteousness of Christ.

Very important to note what I just stated:

ACCORDING TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST

To me as a borne again new creation of the Spirit and by the Spirit of God, I no longer rely on church history related to the creeds of Christendom but rely on the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth as the scripture declares to the believer all things I will give you knowledge, wisdom and understanding, just knock and the door will be opened and ask and the answer shall be given.

Understanding scripture from the true 1st century Apostolic Church, I am certain that the Holy Spirit of God is not tied down by worldly rules nor creeds for what we in the singular do in our body will be tied to heaven when we come face to face with the Christ after we die.

Does this answer your question?

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TheTrisagion
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« Reply #110 on: September 09, 2013, 08:57:03 AM »

Oh dear, Rachel 2.0 is here.  Undecided
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« Reply #111 on: September 09, 2013, 11:31:23 AM »

Quote
I was brought up in a denomination that is connected to the Holy Ghost breath of Christ,

I'm not so well-versed in american protestantism. What exactly is that?
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« Reply #112 on: September 10, 2013, 12:00:22 AM »

Quote
I was brought up in a denomination that is connected to the Holy Ghost breath of Christ,

I'm not so well-versed in american protestantism. What exactly is that?

I am not Protestant.

You seriously don't know what it means or are you pretending to not know, seriously!

Christ breathing on his disciples the Holy Ghost empowered and commissioned them in the Great Commission to preach the gospel of Christ Jesus and baptise by water in his name.

Now I must ask you a question why are you so attached to your denomination as if it is a boat that will get you to where Christ is. This boat called the church, is a hospital for the spiritually sick that we are, when we confess that we are rotten sinners that can only be redeemed by God the Holy Spirit and not the hospital institution itself.

The institution will call you in a place as part and parcel of the Great Commission jurisdiction as a symbol of the two witnesses (two candles that are on the left and right of the altar), so that the spiritual medical practitioner who is God the Holy Spirit can start healing you and I.

It is the practitioner who heals and not the institution that arranges for a bed for you as a spiritually sick man.

Come on let's face it we have nothing to offer to Christ and that we are all sick spiritually and impoverished so at least we can begin the stair way to Christ's heaven by at least stepping on the first ladder step of the sequential steps called his beatitudes.


Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

As it is written in Matthew 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen.

Let me rephrase that:

The many that are called according to the Great Commission calling to the hospital institution (the church), the few that are healed and then chosen by the spiritual practitioner who is God the Holy Spirit.

Now do you get the bigger picture!

Tell me whose in power Ha whose is in power Ha?

God is and for ever will be and he ensures that the life long rehabilitation (sanctification) process called the baptism of fire in the justified by the blood of the lamb believer is purged of their carnal putrid nature and brought in the fullness of the begotten Son Christ Jesus according to all his eight beatitudes.

God is moulding us to be like his Son so we are the symbol of the prodigal sons who God single handedly is rescuing.

Quote
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 12:14:46 AM by Serpentslayer » Logged
hecma925
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« Reply #113 on: September 10, 2013, 08:08:19 AM »

You sound like the minister at the Church of God I grew up in.
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« Reply #114 on: September 10, 2013, 08:11:10 AM »

He certainly protests enough to be considered a protestant although with a hint of Bogomilism.
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« Reply #115 on: September 10, 2013, 08:22:04 AM »

At first I read that as bogoism, and understood it as "the ideology of buy one get one free."  It didn't make much sense, but thought it applied quite nicely to Serpentslayer.

Then I reread it and thought, ohhhhhh, ok. 
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« Reply #116 on: September 10, 2013, 09:12:25 AM »

Serpantslayer, I bet you cant slay me!

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« Reply #117 on: September 10, 2013, 09:16:06 AM »

What people don`t understand is that there is a reason for why we are told that there is no salvation outside the Church. Instead of accepting the Orthodox teaching, we start to question it especially in public, because we think we are smarter and more loving than our saints who lived centuries ago.
So the answer is Yes :
"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever." - St. Theophan the Recluse

I think we are brought up to question everything, especially old things. It is just the way people are taught in school.  So I think it is no suprise that we question the church in everything and all its teaching, and are not afraid to talk as if we know better than its two thousand years of saints. Individualism is now a virtue in the modern age!
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« Reply #118 on: September 10, 2013, 06:27:22 PM »

Serpantslayer, I bet you cant slay me!



Your right I can do nothing.

BUT!

The Christ who is in me can and most certainly will, you can mark my words on that!

Without Christ I can do nothing, but with Christ I can heap hot rocks on your head so that the almighty judge will execute his judgement upon you, if you reject and attack his messenger.

After The Lord opened my eyes to open the eyes of many just like the saints of the past whom their generations listened to. Yet this generation is so vile it only listens to itself because it regards itself, self righteous, more self righteous than the saints that the sovereign lord has chosen to pass the message to the end day Apostolic Church regardless of denomination.

Your OO, EO and RC is not your own property to claim and neither is it your priestly authority's property to place their seal of ownership on, for the owner is Christ who purchased the bride with his own blood.

Those who stake their claim on any Apostolic denomination are those who have hijacked Christianity to make it their own.

This is what Jezebel did when killing NABOTH (meaning THE PROPHET) who is a symbol of Christ. She then placed her earthly king Ahab (SECOND COMING doctrine of Satan as the King of this world) and her BAALIST PRIESTS who hijacked the faith, to place their seal IN PLACE (counterfeit) on the estate (the symbol of the world) of the rightful owner NABOTH, who is a symbol of the Christ.

Christ has three offices:

1) The King of kings as THE CHRIST
2) The Chief priest Melchizedek
3) The Prophet


In the versus below had the Pharisees asked Jesus instead of John the baptist, the following questions, then he would have said Yes, Yes and Yes to all three of them. You see the title of the Christ is as the royal anointed King, the title of Elijah is as the Chief priesthood because he had victory over all the priests by ousting the BAAL priests of Jezebel and finally the title of the Prophet is the essence of the Spirit of Prophesy that is tied to the testimony of Jesus throughout both the Old and New Testament scriptures. (Revelation 19:10)

Quote
John 1:19-21
19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

The tenants who represents today's religious priesthood are walking a very fine line of becoming those tenants in the following parable:

Quote
Mark 12:1-44

New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Tenants

12 Jesus then began to speak to them in parables: “A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 2 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. 3 But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 4 Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. 5 He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed.

6 “He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’

7 “But the tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 8 So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

9 “What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others. 10 Haven’t you read this passage of Scripture:

“‘The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone;
11 the Lord has done this,
    and it is marvelous in our eyes

You can't have truth without Christ and you most certainly can't have peace without the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus, that is why a sword is prepared for the hijackers upon the appointed time of The Sovereign Lord to all those who had pleasure in taking part in unrighteousness.

Go shake hands with the Muslims, Hindus, snake worshippers, showmen witches and all the false religions of this world to try and establish a universal peace and see how far you will get.

Will there be peace in the Middle East, Ha never!

Because Truth, Grace and Peace is by one person and that is the Christ.

Leaving him out of the equation like what Jezebel did to NABOTH, you are going to be in a world of hurt, mark my words.
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« Reply #119 on: September 10, 2013, 06:54:43 PM »

Quote
I was brought up in a denomination that is connected to the Holy Ghost breath of Christ,

I'm not so well-versed in american protestantism. What exactly is that?

Not Protestantism. Maybe delusion.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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« Reply #120 on: September 10, 2013, 06:58:36 PM »

Quote
I was brought up in a denomination that is connected to the Holy Ghost breath of Christ,

I'm not so well-versed in american protestantism. What exactly is that?

I am not Protestant.

You seriously don't know what it means or are you pretending to not know, seriously!

Christ breathing on his disciples the Holy Ghost empowered and commissioned them in the Great Commission to preach the gospel of Christ Jesus and baptise by water in his name.

Now I must ask you a question why are you so attached to your denomination as if it is a boat that will get you to where Christ is. This boat called the church, is a hospital for the spiritually sick that we are, when we confess that we are rotten sinners that can only be redeemed by God the Holy Spirit and not the hospital institution itself.

The institution will call you in a place as part and parcel of the Great Commission jurisdiction as a symbol of the two witnesses (two candles that are on the left and right of the altar), so that the spiritual medical practitioner who is God the Holy Spirit can start healing you and I.

It is the practitioner who heals and not the institution that arranges for a bed for you as a spiritually sick man.

Come on let's face it we have nothing to offer to Christ and that we are all sick spiritually and impoverished so at least we can begin the stair way to Christ's heaven by at least stepping on the first ladder step of the sequential steps called his beatitudes.


Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

As it is written in Matthew 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen.

Let me rephrase that:

The many that are called according to the Great Commission calling to the hospital institution (the church), the few that are healed and then chosen by the spiritual practitioner who is God the Holy Spirit.

Now do you get the bigger picture!

Tell me whose in power Ha whose is in power Ha?

God is and for ever will be and he ensures that the life long rehabilitation (sanctification) process called the baptism of fire in the justified by the blood of the lamb believer is purged of their carnal putrid nature and brought in the fullness of the begotten Son Christ Jesus according to all his eight beatitudes.

God is moulding us to be like his Son so we are the symbol of the prodigal sons who God single handedly is rescuing.

Quote
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Relax, I thought it was the name of a denomination.
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« Reply #121 on: September 10, 2013, 07:00:26 PM »

 :'(WOW! You really don't understand church history.Do you love all people like Christ does?Why did you say "mark my words"several times in your post?You sound so angry ei.Hot rocks on head! I pray for you.
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« Reply #122 on: September 10, 2013, 07:31:58 PM »

Teehee!  I love serpentslayer!  I hope he becomes a regular contributing member, it will make my forum experience so much more enjoyable.  Grin
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« Reply #123 on: September 10, 2013, 07:34:09 PM »

it will make my forum experience so much more enjoyable.  Grin

Can't speak that for myself, or to greater exempt, for mina.
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« Reply #124 on: September 10, 2013, 07:35:35 PM »

it will make my forum experience so much more enjoyable.  Grin

Can't speak that for myself, or to greater exempt, for mina.
Say what?  Huh
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« Reply #125 on: September 10, 2013, 07:39:50 PM »

it will make my forum experience so much more enjoyable.  Grin

Can't speak that for myself, or to greater exempt, for mina.
Say what?  Huh

He will probably have to clean up the mess left by that new user.
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TheTrisagion
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« Reply #126 on: September 10, 2013, 07:45:17 PM »

it will make my forum experience so much more enjoyable.  Grin

Can't speak that for myself, or to greater exempt, for mina.
Say what?  Huh

He will probably have to clean up the mess left by that new user.

lol, true, but it is always fun for those of us who are not mods.  Grin
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Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
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« Reply #127 on: September 14, 2013, 09:37:05 AM »

Was Antiochian, but in the process of going back to the Catholicism of my baptism and heritage.  -- No.

Deep Roots, this is sad.  I assume you are feeling a longing, a nostalgia, for what you grew up with, or have heard family talking about, or seen in photos, etc.

We all have nostalgia, however, the world changes, and almost nothing that we remember from our childhood's is the same when we are adults.  Building are demolished and new ones built, governments change, fashions change, etc...

Faith is not such a thing.

Our Faith is what leads us to our eternal salvation.
 
Please, don't confuse nostalgia with True Salvation.  Do not make a rash decision, based on a warm and fuzzy feeling you get when reminiscing about the olden days.

Don't take this Forum to represent all of Orthodoxy, either.  This is not an actual branch of the Church, and most Orthodox on here do not behave the way they ought to, all the time.

A friend once told me that "A good pope is a disservice to the Catholic Church" ... to me that sounds like something people say when they get a little too caught up in their own cleverness  Cheesy ... But I digress.

Digressions aside, Deep Roots I have to agree with what LizaSymonenko and a few others here are saying: you do have to be careful not to let the "bad examples" of some Orthodox turn you off from Orthodoxy. Quite frankly I often ask myself, How can this forum be so bad when there's so much reason for it to be so good?  Undecided

Fwiw, I don't have any intention of becoming Orthodox, but if I were Orthodox I wouldn't leave.
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« Reply #128 on: September 14, 2013, 10:09:16 AM »

Was Antiochian, but in the process of going back to the Catholicism of my baptism and heritage.  -- No.

Deep Roots, this is sad.  I assume you are feeling a longing, a nostalgia, for what you grew up with, or have heard family talking about, or seen in photos, etc.

We all have nostalgia, however, the world changes, and almost nothing that we remember from our childhood's is the same when we are adults.  Building are demolished and new ones built, governments change, fashions change, etc...

Faith is not such a thing.

Our Faith is what leads us to our eternal salvation.
 
Please, don't confuse nostalgia with True Salvation.  Do not make a rash decision, based on a warm and fuzzy feeling you get when reminiscing about the olden days.

Don't take this Forum to represent all of Orthodoxy, either.  This is not an actual branch of the Church, and most Orthodox on here do not behave the way they ought to, all the time.

A friend once told me that "A good pope is a disservice to the Catholic Church" ... to me that sounds like something people say when they get a little too caught up in their own cleverness  Cheesy ... But I digress.

Digressions aside, Deep Roots I have to agree with what LizaSymonenko and a few others here are saying: you do have to be careful not to let the "bad examples" of some Orthodox turn you off from Orthodoxy. Quite frankly I often ask myself, How can this forum be so bad when there's so much reason for it to be so good?  Undecided

Fwiw, I don't have any intention of becoming Orthodox, but if I were Orthodox I wouldn't leave.
I appreciate all the thoughts from folks and encouragement.

But I want to reiterate, I'm not weak enough to let some Orthobillies on a message board change my faith. (note: that's not a reference to EVERYONE here.)

there's a lot of other stuff going on in this decision.
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Peace.
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