Author Topic: Serious Question  (Read 11276 times)

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Offline Kerdy

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Serious Question
« on: August 03, 2013, 09:13:26 PM »
Ok guys (and gals), here is a question for everyone which has been really bothering me lately.  I would insert a poll, but with all of the different jurisdictions I thought it would be useless.  When you answer, please do not pontificate .  If you must explain, please keep it as pithy as possible.  I am more interested in a yes and no answer.  If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.  Additionally, prior to your answer, please list your jurisdiction. 

For example:
“Greek Orthodox – No”
“Antiochian Orthodox – Yes”
“Melikite Catholic - Yes”
“Roman Catholic – No”
   
Here is the question.  According to your jurisdictions doctrine, dogma, Tradition, etc., if a person is not in communion with your Church or the Church yours is in communion with, is that person by default destined to hell (or whatever you believe is the end result of not being in heaven). 

I realize there is a lot of stuff which could be discussed; however, with it already being spoken of in multiple threads, this is not the place.  I would just like your clear, short, and concise answers.  Thank you!

(Moderator:  If this is the wrong place for this thread, please move it in the correct place.  I was not sure where it should be posted.)

Offline Jonathan

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 09:21:20 PM »
Coptic Orthodox - No.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 09:34:22 PM »
Orthodox - No
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 09:57:09 PM »
Antiochian Orthodox - No

Offline Papist

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 09:58:56 PM »
Ok guys (and gals), here is a question for everyone which has been really bothering me lately.  I would insert a poll, but with all of the different jurisdictions I thought it would be useless.  When you answer, please do not pontificate .  If you must explain, please keep it as pithy as possible.  I am more interested in a yes and no answer.  If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.  Additionally, prior to your answer, please list your jurisdiction. 

For example:
“Greek Orthodox – No”
“Antiochian Orthodox – Yes”
“Melikite Catholic - Yes”
“Roman Catholic – No”
   
Here is the question.  According to your jurisdictions doctrine, dogma, Tradition, etc., if a person is not in communion with your Church or the Church yours is in communion with, is that person by default destined to hell (or whatever you believe is the end result of not being in heaven). 

I realize there is a lot of stuff which could be discussed; however, with it already being spoken of in multiple threads, this is not the place.  I would just like your clear, short, and concise answers.  Thank you!

(Moderator:  If this is the wrong place for this thread, please move it in the correct place.  I was not sure where it should be posted.)

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Luke

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 09:59:05 PM »
Greek Orthodox -- No.

Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2013, 10:11:42 PM »
Ok guys (and gals), here is a question for everyone which has been really bothering me lately.  I would insert a poll, but with all of the different jurisdictions I thought it would be useless.  When you answer, please do not pontificate .  If you must explain, please keep it as pithy as possible.  I am more interested in a yes and no answer.  If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.  Additionally, prior to your answer, please list your jurisdiction. 

For example:
“Greek Orthodox – No”
“Antiochian Orthodox – Yes”
“Melikite Catholic - Yes”
“Roman Catholic – No”
   
Here is the question.  According to your jurisdictions doctrine, dogma, Tradition, etc., if a person is not in communion with your Church or the Church yours is in communion with, is that person by default destined to hell (or whatever you believe is the end result of not being in heaven). 

I realize there is a lot of stuff which could be discussed; however, with it already being spoken of in multiple threads, this is not the place.  I would just like your clear, short, and concise answers.  Thank you!

(Moderator:  If this is the wrong place for this thread, please move it in the correct place.  I was not sure where it should be posted.)

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.

You're in the example, I'd say you're clear. :)

Offline Papist

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2013, 10:13:31 PM »
Roman Catholic - No
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2013, 10:19:41 PM »
No.
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2013, 10:24:01 PM »
No.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2013, 10:26:08 PM »
No.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2013, 10:54:05 PM »
Ok guys (and gals), here is a question for everyone which has been really bothering me lately.  I would insert a poll, but with all of the different jurisdictions I thought it would be useless.  When you answer, please do not pontificate .  If you must explain, please keep it as pithy as possible.  I am more interested in a yes and no answer.  If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.  Additionally, prior to your answer, please list your jurisdiction. 

For example:
“Greek Orthodox – No”
“Antiochian Orthodox – Yes”
“Melikite Catholic - Yes”
“Roman Catholic – No”
   
Here is the question.  According to your jurisdictions doctrine, dogma, Tradition, etc., if a person is not in communion with your Church or the Church yours is in communion with, is that person by default destined to hell (or whatever you believe is the end result of not being in heaven). 

I realize there is a lot of stuff which could be discussed; however, with it already being spoken of in multiple threads, this is not the place.  I would just like your clear, short, and concise answers.  Thank you!

(Moderator:  If this is the wrong place for this thread, please move it in the correct place.  I was not sure where it should be posted.)

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.

As far as I am concerned you are allowed.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2013, 12:33:22 AM »
Orthodox-No

I look forward to see where you are going with this Kerdy.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2013, 12:56:35 AM »
No.
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Offline john_mo

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2013, 06:09:32 AM »
Antioch: no
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Offline Luka

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2013, 07:11:09 AM »
Orthodox - No (although it depends on how broadly we understand "communion")

Offline KBN1

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2013, 07:45:51 AM »
OCA - No

Offline Quinault

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2013, 08:28:03 AM »
No.

This is kind of a weird question actually. You need to have a definition of hell first. To quote our priest:

"The light of God's love shines equally on all people. It is our ability to accept that love that determines if that love brings either pleasure or pain."
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 08:31:49 AM by Quinault »

Offline mike

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2013, 10:54:33 AM »
If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.

You are not the one who dictates how people should respond here. Posters are allowed  to post however they want, unless it breaks the forum rules and your will is not a forum rule. If you do not like people responding to your questions, do not ask them.

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.

No. But it's not your  fault Kerdy started this thread in the wrong section.

Moving it.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 10:55:12 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2013, 11:21:25 AM »
Yes, but I need to explain.

You can have a church, but if it's not in communion with the Church, then there is no salvation. I reject branch theory, ecumenism and I am a strict adherent of no salvation outside the Church.

I think this it is pretty clear from the teachings and doctrines of the Orthodox Church. Only through Christ do we come to the Father, and the Church being His Body, and we are united to Him by the Church, so anything outside of that is not in union with Him.

But I feel that is begging the question, who makes up the Church? How is one received into the Church? Who is visibly and invisibly part of the Church? Don't know until Judgement Day.

What interests me more is the unresolved paradox the Scriptures say about salvation. On the one hand Christ says there is no salvation if you are not baptized, communed, etc. yet on the other hand salvation is possible without these sacraments.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

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Offline Shiny

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2013, 11:21:25 AM »
Forgot to add the jurisdiction, but I will say Orthodox but I am not appealing to any specific jurisdictional doctrine/dogma.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2013, 06:15:40 PM »
If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.

You are not the one who dictates how people should respond here. Posters are allowed  to post however they want, unless it breaks the forum rules and your will is not a forum rule. If you do not like people responding to your questions, do not ask them.

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.

No. But it's not your  fault Kerdy started this thread in the wrong section.

Moving it.
That's why I placed "ask" and "please" in there.  Perhaps you missed it.  I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos.  It also seems you missed the last portion of my original post in relation to where to start the thread, but I do thank you for moving it to the correct place.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 06:20:36 PM by Kerdy »

Offline WPM

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2013, 06:26:19 PM »
All Orthodox Churches in North America
Learn meditation.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2013, 06:29:39 PM »
All Orthodox Churches in North America
???

Offline WPM

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2013, 06:45:04 PM »
It sounds like you were talking about jurisdictions so I checked them all
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Offline Apotheoun

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2013, 06:53:22 PM »
Melikite Catholic - No
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2013, 09:11:28 AM »
14 no’s, 1 yes.  

No one else wants to participate with over 300 views?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 09:12:07 AM by Kerdy »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2013, 11:24:35 AM »
I'll answer, but I'm not sure what the point is.  You aren't asking for our opinion, you are asking for the opinion of our Church so if someone has already accurately answered on behalf of the Church, I'm not sure why it needs to be reiterated a million times. That being said:

Antiochian Orthodox - No
God bless!

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2013, 11:37:26 AM »

Orthodox (Ukrainian Orthodox) - No.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2013, 11:50:53 AM »
A far more interesting aspect of this little poll is the fact that those who have their jurisdiction listed by their name also posted it in the body of their post and the people who did not, tended not to post their jurisdiction.  What can this mean?  I suspect that there is a secret cabal of Orthodox elites here at oc.net that have ascended beyond jurisdictional boundaries and now commune directly with the Almighty.  It is the only logical conclusion.  :laugh:
God bless!

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2013, 11:59:42 AM »

So, what's at the root of the question?  I know you have something on your mind.  What is it?
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2013, 04:50:28 PM »
A far more interesting aspect of this little poll is the fact that those who have their jurisdiction listed by their name also posted it in the body of their post and the people who did not, tended not to post their jurisdiction.  What can this mean?  I suspect that there is a secret cabal of Orthodox elites here at oc.net that have ascended beyond jurisdictional boundaries and now commune directly with the Almighty.  It is the only logical conclusion.  :laugh:
You just can't help yourself, can you?

Offline Hinterlander

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2013, 05:07:51 PM »
Westboro Baptist - Yes

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2013, 08:03:27 PM »
No - 16

Yes - 1

Thank you to those who are seriously participating.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2013, 08:24:10 PM »
I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos. 

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  :P
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2013, 09:04:20 PM »
I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos. 

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  :P
It's no secret, but yes I will explain.

Offline Quinault

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2013, 09:16:06 PM »
I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos.

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  :P
It's no secret, but yes I will explain.

You didn't answer Kerdy.

Offline William

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2013, 09:20:41 PM »
Williamodoxy - N/A
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2013, 09:23:16 PM »
I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos.

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  :P
It's no secret, but yes I will explain.

You didn't answer Kerdy.
I sure didnt.  Not yet.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2013, 09:55:17 PM »
OCA-Yes

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2013, 10:09:18 PM »
I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos.

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  :P
It's no secret, but yes I will explain.

You didn't answer Kerdy.
I sure didnt.  Not yet.

When?  I'm not good at waiting. :)
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2013, 10:23:26 PM »
I get the feeling everyone's expectations of my purpose are too high.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2013, 10:26:36 PM »
Greek Orthodox--no
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2013, 11:37:15 PM »
14 no’s, 1 yes.  

No one else wants to participate with over 300 views?


Generally, this is a good ratio Kerdy. Currently at 43 posts vs 470 views. In addition consider that this is a noncontroversial issue,

What you should take away from this is that there are people like myself.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Serious Question
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2013, 12:09:57 AM »
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.