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Author Topic: Serious Question  (Read 5116 times) Average Rating: 0
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Kerdy
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« on: August 03, 2013, 09:13:26 PM »

Ok guys (and gals), here is a question for everyone which has been really bothering me lately.  I would insert a poll, but with all of the different jurisdictions I thought it would be useless.  When you answer, please do not pontificate .  If you must explain, please keep it as pithy as possible.  I am more interested in a yes and no answer.  If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.  Additionally, prior to your answer, please list your jurisdiction. 

For example:
“Greek Orthodox – No”
“Antiochian Orthodox – Yes”
“Melikite Catholic - Yes”
“Roman Catholic – No”
   
Here is the question.  According to your jurisdictions doctrine, dogma, Tradition, etc., if a person is not in communion with your Church or the Church yours is in communion with, is that person by default destined to hell (or whatever you believe is the end result of not being in heaven). 

I realize there is a lot of stuff which could be discussed; however, with it already being spoken of in multiple threads, this is not the place.  I would just like your clear, short, and concise answers.  Thank you!

(Moderator:  If this is the wrong place for this thread, please move it in the correct place.  I was not sure where it should be posted.)
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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 09:21:20 PM »

Coptic Orthodox - No.
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 09:34:22 PM »

Orthodox - No
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 09:57:09 PM »

Antiochian Orthodox - No
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 09:58:56 PM »

Ok guys (and gals), here is a question for everyone which has been really bothering me lately.  I would insert a poll, but with all of the different jurisdictions I thought it would be useless.  When you answer, please do not pontificate .  If you must explain, please keep it as pithy as possible.  I am more interested in a yes and no answer.  If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.  Additionally, prior to your answer, please list your jurisdiction. 

For example:
“Greek Orthodox – No”
“Antiochian Orthodox – Yes”
“Melikite Catholic - Yes”
“Roman Catholic – No”
   
Here is the question.  According to your jurisdictions doctrine, dogma, Tradition, etc., if a person is not in communion with your Church or the Church yours is in communion with, is that person by default destined to hell (or whatever you believe is the end result of not being in heaven). 

I realize there is a lot of stuff which could be discussed; however, with it already being spoken of in multiple threads, this is not the place.  I would just like your clear, short, and concise answers.  Thank you!

(Moderator:  If this is the wrong place for this thread, please move it in the correct place.  I was not sure where it should be posted.)

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 09:59:05 PM »

Greek Orthodox -- No.
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2013, 10:11:42 PM »

Ok guys (and gals), here is a question for everyone which has been really bothering me lately.  I would insert a poll, but with all of the different jurisdictions I thought it would be useless.  When you answer, please do not pontificate .  If you must explain, please keep it as pithy as possible.  I am more interested in a yes and no answer.  If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.  Additionally, prior to your answer, please list your jurisdiction. 

For example:
“Greek Orthodox – No”
“Antiochian Orthodox – Yes”
“Melikite Catholic - Yes”
“Roman Catholic – No”
   
Here is the question.  According to your jurisdictions doctrine, dogma, Tradition, etc., if a person is not in communion with your Church or the Church yours is in communion with, is that person by default destined to hell (or whatever you believe is the end result of not being in heaven). 

I realize there is a lot of stuff which could be discussed; however, with it already being spoken of in multiple threads, this is not the place.  I would just like your clear, short, and concise answers.  Thank you!

(Moderator:  If this is the wrong place for this thread, please move it in the correct place.  I was not sure where it should be posted.)

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.

You're in the example, I'd say you're clear. Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2013, 10:13:31 PM »

Roman Catholic - No
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2013, 10:19:41 PM »

No.
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2013, 10:24:01 PM »

No.
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2013, 10:26:08 PM »

No.
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Kerdy
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2013, 10:54:05 PM »

Ok guys (and gals), here is a question for everyone which has been really bothering me lately.  I would insert a poll, but with all of the different jurisdictions I thought it would be useless.  When you answer, please do not pontificate .  If you must explain, please keep it as pithy as possible.  I am more interested in a yes and no answer.  If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.  Additionally, prior to your answer, please list your jurisdiction. 

For example:
“Greek Orthodox – No”
“Antiochian Orthodox – Yes”
“Melikite Catholic - Yes”
“Roman Catholic – No”
   
Here is the question.  According to your jurisdictions doctrine, dogma, Tradition, etc., if a person is not in communion with your Church or the Church yours is in communion with, is that person by default destined to hell (or whatever you believe is the end result of not being in heaven). 

I realize there is a lot of stuff which could be discussed; however, with it already being spoken of in multiple threads, this is not the place.  I would just like your clear, short, and concise answers.  Thank you!

(Moderator:  If this is the wrong place for this thread, please move it in the correct place.  I was not sure where it should be posted.)

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.

As far as I am concerned you are allowed.
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2013, 12:33:22 AM »

Orthodox-No

I look forward to see where you are going with this Kerdy.
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2013, 12:56:35 AM »

No.
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« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2013, 06:09:32 AM »

Antioch: no
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« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2013, 07:11:09 AM »

Orthodox - No (although it depends on how broadly we understand "communion")
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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2013, 07:45:51 AM »

OCA - No
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« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2013, 08:28:03 AM »

No.

This is kind of a weird question actually. You need to have a definition of hell first. To quote our priest:

"The light of God's love shines equally on all people. It is our ability to accept that love that determines if that love brings either pleasure or pain."
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« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2013, 10:54:33 AM »

If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.

You are not the one who dictates how people should respond here. Posters are allowed  to post however they want, unless it breaks the forum rules and your will is not a forum rule. If you do not like people responding to your questions, do not ask them.

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.

No. But it's not your  fault Kerdy started this thread in the wrong section.

Moving it.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 10:55:12 AM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2013, 11:21:25 AM »

Yes, but I need to explain.

You can have a church, but if it's not in communion with the Church, then there is no salvation. I reject branch theory, ecumenism and I am a strict adherent of no salvation outside the Church.

I think this it is pretty clear from the teachings and doctrines of the Orthodox Church. Only through Christ do we come to the Father, and the Church being His Body, and we are united to Him by the Church, so anything outside of that is not in union with Him.

But I feel that is begging the question, who makes up the Church? How is one received into the Church? Who is visibly and invisibly part of the Church? Don't know until Judgement Day.

What interests me more is the unresolved paradox the Scriptures say about salvation. On the one hand Christ says there is no salvation if you are not baptized, communed, etc. yet on the other hand salvation is possible without these sacraments.
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« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2013, 11:21:25 AM »

Forgot to add the jurisdiction, but I will say Orthodox but I am not appealing to any specific jurisdictional doctrine/dogma.
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« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2013, 06:15:40 PM »

If you start to argue and debate, I ask the moderators to lock this thread, even if the debate is within the same jurisdiction.

You are not the one who dictates how people should respond here. Posters are allowed  to post however they want, unless it breaks the forum rules and your will is not a forum rule. If you do not like people responding to your questions, do not ask them.

Are we Catholics allowed to answer, or will that break forum rules? I want to be sure that I am in compliance.

No. But it's not your  fault Kerdy started this thread in the wrong section.

Moving it.
That's why I placed "ask" and "please" in there.  Perhaps you missed it.  I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos.  It also seems you missed the last portion of my original post in relation to where to start the thread, but I do thank you for moving it to the correct place.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 06:20:36 PM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2013, 06:26:19 PM »

All Orthodox Churches in North America
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« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2013, 06:29:39 PM »

All Orthodox Churches in North America
Huh
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« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2013, 06:45:04 PM »

It sounds like you were talking about jurisdictions so I checked them all
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« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2013, 06:53:22 PM »

Melikite Catholic - No
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2013, 09:11:28 AM »

14 no’s, 1 yes.  

No one else wants to participate with over 300 views?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 09:12:07 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2013, 11:24:35 AM »

I'll answer, but I'm not sure what the point is.  You aren't asking for our opinion, you are asking for the opinion of our Church so if someone has already accurately answered on behalf of the Church, I'm not sure why it needs to be reiterated a million times. That being said:

Antiochian Orthodox - No
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« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2013, 11:37:26 AM »


Orthodox (Ukrainian Orthodox) - No.
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« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2013, 11:50:53 AM »

A far more interesting aspect of this little poll is the fact that those who have their jurisdiction listed by their name also posted it in the body of their post and the people who did not, tended not to post their jurisdiction.  What can this mean?  I suspect that there is a secret cabal of Orthodox elites here at oc.net that have ascended beyond jurisdictional boundaries and now commune directly with the Almighty.  It is the only logical conclusion.  laugh
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« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2013, 11:59:42 AM »


So, what's at the root of the question?  I know you have something on your mind.  What is it?
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« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2013, 04:50:28 PM »

A far more interesting aspect of this little poll is the fact that those who have their jurisdiction listed by their name also posted it in the body of their post and the people who did not, tended not to post their jurisdiction.  What can this mean?  I suspect that there is a secret cabal of Orthodox elites here at oc.net that have ascended beyond jurisdictional boundaries and now commune directly with the Almighty.  It is the only logical conclusion.  laugh
You just can't help yourself, can you?
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« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2013, 05:07:51 PM »

Westboro Baptist - Yes
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« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2013, 08:03:27 PM »

No - 16

Yes - 1

Thank you to those who are seriously participating.
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« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2013, 08:24:10 PM »

I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos. 

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  Tongue
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« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2013, 09:04:20 PM »

I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos. 

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  Tongue
It's no secret, but yes I will explain.
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« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2013, 09:16:06 PM »

I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos.

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  Tongue
It's no secret, but yes I will explain.

You didn't answer Kerdy.
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« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2013, 09:20:41 PM »

Williamodoxy - N/A
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« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2013, 09:23:16 PM »

I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos.

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  Tongue
It's no secret, but yes I will explain.

You didn't answer Kerdy.
I sure didnt.  Not yet.
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« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2013, 09:55:17 PM »

OCA-Yes
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« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2013, 10:09:18 PM »

I have a specific personal reason for asking which I didn't want to get lost in the regular chaos.

Are you ever going to let us in on the secret?  Tongue
It's no secret, but yes I will explain.

You didn't answer Kerdy.
I sure didnt.  Not yet.

When?  I'm not good at waiting. Smiley
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« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2013, 10:23:26 PM »

I get the feeling everyone's expectations of my purpose are too high.
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« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2013, 10:26:36 PM »

Greek Orthodox--no
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« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2013, 11:37:15 PM »

14 no’s, 1 yes.  

No one else wants to participate with over 300 views?


Generally, this is a good ratio Kerdy. Currently at 43 posts vs 470 views. In addition consider that this is a noncontroversial issue,

What you should take away from this is that there are people like myself.
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« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2013, 12:09:57 AM »

OCA-Yes

OCA - No

Both can't be right.  Which is it?
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