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Author Topic: Why God is definitely not real  (Read 4782 times) Average Rating: 0
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phil2190
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« on: August 03, 2013, 11:08:49 AM »

Im greek and im an atheist and my disbelief lies not in not wanting to be punished but throught careful critique of the bible i respect a christians right to believe in christ. I just have a few questions regarding the bible. First if god is ominisint that is he is all-knowing then why would he create the angel lucifer knowing he would revolt and tempt adam and eve to eat the fruit in the garden of even leading to christ's eventual crucifixition. Second is the question of freewill which many christians use to rebuttle the first question and that is if god knew that adam and eve were going to eat the fruit then what is the point of the narrative as a whole "the heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps" proverbs 16"9 from this we can see that god knew all along that lucifer would revolt, adam and eve would eat the fruit and that judas would betray him. Also if god is all powerful then when he came down to earth in the form of his son god as man or jesus christ he still has the qualities of what we will call a god( in the ten commandments thou shall have no gods before me implies there are other gods) they how can humans with inferior mortal faculties kill a god who is omnipitient if jesus is real he should still be alive on the cross and we should be able to ask him and question we want. if anybody has any objections to this logic i would be happy to debate them in a civil and noncritical way as i have stated i am tolerant of other peoples belief systems
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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 11:30:27 AM »

Im greek and im an atheist and my disbelief lies not in not wanting to be punished but throught careful critique of the bible i respect a christians right to believe in christ. I just have a few questions regarding the bible. First if god is ominisint that is he is all-knowing then why would he create the angel lucifer knowing he would revolt and tempt adam and eve to eat the fruit in the garden of even leading to christ's eventual crucifixition.

why do you ask? IOW, what is your question?  You seem to hold to the error that God is bound by His knowledge, and that His mercy is limited.
Second is the question of freewill which many christians use to rebuttle the first question and that is if god knew that adam and eve were going to eat the fruit then what is the point of the narrative as a whole "the heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps" proverbs 16"9 from this we can see that god knew all along that lucifer would revolt, adam and eve would eat the fruit and that judas would betray him.
and He would rise and save man.  Any further question?
Also if god is all powerful then when he came down to earth in the form of his son god as man or jesus christ he still has the qualities of what we will call a god( in the ten commandments thou shall have no gods before me implies there are other gods)

no, is just states the fact that people idolize things that are not God.
they how can humans with inferior mortal faculties kill a god who is omnipitient if jesus is real he should still be alive on the cross and we should be able to ask him and question we want.
IOW, God has to do things the way you think they should be done.

John 10:18.
if anybody has any objections to this logic i would be happy to debate them in a civil and noncritical way as i have stated i am tolerant of other peoples belief systems
uh huh.
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 11:34:04 AM »

if anybody has any objections to this logic i would be happy to debate them in a civil and noncritical way as i have stated i am tolerant of other peoples belief systems

If we came on an atheist forum, sure. But here you're in an Orthodox forum, and you have a lot to learn, young grasshopper. Provided you hold your tongue long enough.

You can start with proper punctuation and capitalisation. It's very hard to be taken seriously when one writes like a primary-schooler.
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 11:58:15 AM »

you can come on an atheist forum i welcome and i apoligize for my grammar but serously when we celebrate easter at my yaiyais ive really gotta ask my self how you ressurect a man who is incapable of dieing
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 12:02:34 PM »

You're right. God is definitely not real. Apophasis wins again!
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 12:03:47 PM »

you can come on an atheist forum i welcome and i apoligize for my grammar but serously when we celebrate easter at my yaiyais ive really gotta ask my self how you ressurect a man who is incapable of dieing
How is Chris incapable of dying? He certainly has a human nature, and death is merely separation of the soul form the body? What about that is impossible for Christ?
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2013, 12:04:10 PM »

Let's eat, grandma!
Let's eat grandma!

Interpunction, it saves lives.
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2013, 12:05:05 PM »

wow, you convinced me! Where is the nearest athiest church.
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2013, 12:05:25 PM »

Let's eat, grandma!
Let's eat grandma!

Interpunction, it saves lives.

Pre-Passion: Let's eat, Jesus!
Post-Passion: Let's eat Jesus!
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2013, 12:06:20 PM »

Guys, he's a confused kid, and a non-native English speaker. Keep to short and simple words. :-)
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...
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2013, 12:06:48 PM »

because of the trinity he is god man god spirit and god father simeltanously
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2013, 12:07:14 PM »

because of the trinity he is god man god spirit and god father simeltanously

No. That would be modalism.
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2013, 12:08:41 PM »

Let's eat, grandma!
Let's eat grandma!

Interpunction, it saves lives.

Pre-Passion: Let's eat, Jesus!
Post-Passion: Let's eat Jesus!

That's some theology you've got right there...
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2013, 12:08:55 PM »

even if what im saying about the trinity if wrong explain lucifer?
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2013, 12:09:04 PM »

because of the trinity he is god man god spirit and god father simeltanously

Nope. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all distinct persons. God is one in essence, but three in persons.
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2013, 12:09:31 PM »

even if what im saying about the trinity if wrong explain lucifer?

Huh?
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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2013, 12:10:24 PM »

even if what im saying about the trinity if wrong explain lucifer?
What is there to explain? God created the devil, and the devil chose to disobey God. If God only created those beings who would do exactly what God wanted, how is there free will?
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2013, 12:10:51 PM »

why did god create lucifer knowing he would revolt and tempt adam and eve in the garden of eden leading to judas betraying jesus and his eventual crucifixition ?
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2013, 12:12:01 PM »

you cannot explain lucifer there is no free will in the bibleThe heart of man plans his way,
    but the Lord establishes his steps proverbs 16:9
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2013, 12:13:44 PM »

you cannot explain lucifer there is no free will in the bibleThe heart of man plans his way,
    but the Lord establishes his steps proverbs 16:9

A Calvinist Greek, huh? Cyril Lucaris, is that you?
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2013, 12:15:45 PM »

you can come on an atheist forum i welcome and i apoligize for my grammar but serously when we celebrate easter at my yaiyais ive really gotta ask my self how you ressurect a man who is incapable of dieing
We didn't.  He wasn't resurrected, He ROSE.  Pay attention.

As for the last comment, that is the irony proclaimed over and over in the hymns of Great and Holy Friday.  Obviously, though, He could die, as He did.
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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2013, 12:17:50 PM »

were no longer debating the trinity but the fact that you justifiying the resurection suggects that im right
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« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2013, 12:18:52 PM »

you cannot explain lucifer there is no free will in the bibleThe heart of man plans his way,
    but the Lord establishes his steps proverbs 16:9
A poor argument for predestination.

My sons when toddlers planned their way a lot, but we went where I directed.
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« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2013, 12:19:07 PM »

were no longer debating the trinity but the fact that you justifiying the resurection suggects that im right
By all means, tell us what we are debating.
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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2013, 12:20:45 PM »

were no longer debating the trinity but the fact that you justifiying the resurection suggects that im right
Your errors on the Most Holy Trinity were easily dispensed with.  Having shown you your error, why would we belabor it?

You brought up the Resurrection, I just responded.  Nothing more.
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« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2013, 12:21:00 PM »

the fallaciousness of the bible and the existence of god you cannot say that the bible is in fallable because it is the word of god therefore the mistakes inside of it are beyond our understanding this is a fallacy of begging the question
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« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2013, 12:21:10 PM »

the fact that you justifiying the resurection suggects that im right

Not really.
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« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2013, 12:22:50 PM »

lulz @ logic
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« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2013, 12:22:50 PM »

you can come on an atheist forum i welcome and i apoligize for my grammar but serously when we celebrate easter at my yaiyais ive really gotta ask my self how you ressurect a man who is incapable of dieing
?

You know what resurrection means right?
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« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2013, 12:23:55 PM »

......yesss
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« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2013, 12:25:51 PM »

you can come on an atheist forum i welcome and i apoligize for my grammar but serously when we celebrate easter at my yaiyais ive really gotta ask my self how you ressurect a man who is incapable of dieing
How is Chris incapable of dying?
Freudian slip? You are Chris, are you not? Grin
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« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2013, 12:26:35 PM »

even if jesus is god-man and has some human attributes then he has some godlike attributes humans should not able to kill jesus  because he is omnipitenet and thus invincible he would still be on the cross and we could travel to the stop were he "died" and talk to him he is not there and thus he never existed
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« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2013, 12:27:05 PM »

you can come on an atheist forum i welcome and i apoligize for my grammar but serously when we celebrate easter at my yaiyais ive really gotta ask my self how you ressurect a man who is incapable of dieing
How is Chris incapable of dying?
Freudian slip? You are Chris, are you not? Grin
Haha. opps.  Cheesy

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« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2013, 12:28:00 PM »

why did god create lucifer knowing he would revolt and tempt adam and eve in the garden of eden leading to judas betraying jesus and his eventual crucifixition ?
Why ask why?
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« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2013, 12:28:16 PM »

even if jesus is god-man and has some human attributes then he has some godlike attributes humans should not able to kill jesus  because he is omnipitenet and thus invincible he would still be on the cross and we could travel to the stop were he "died" and talk to him he is not there and thus he never existed

How old are you?
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« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2013, 12:28:20 PM »

even if jesus is god-man and has some human attributes then he has some godlike attributes humans should not able to kill jesus  because he is omnipitenet and thus invincible he would still be on the cross and we could travel to the stop were he "died" and talk to him he is not there and thus he never existed
The person of Christ cannot be brought to an end. But that does not mean that his human soul cannot be separated from his human body: in other words he can die. But death does not mean the end of an existence.
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« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2013, 12:30:11 PM »

the trinity is three inseprabale parts what dont you get like water steam and ice part of one subastance jesus father and holy ghost all have a godlike essence
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« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2013, 12:30:30 PM »

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« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2013, 12:31:45 PM »

the trinity is three inseprabale parts what dont you get like water steam and ice part of one subastance jesus father and holy ghost all have a godlike essence
The persons of the Trinity are not "parts of God" nor are they phases or manifestations of. Each is a distinct person, and each is fully God. Three distinct persons, one divine essence.
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« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2013, 12:31:48 PM »

God does not exist, but, please, let me school you in theology anyway.
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« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2013, 12:32:10 PM »

because of the trinity he is god man god spirit and god father simeltanously

When I tried to post this, I was told by the computer that twenty-four new replies were posted since I started typing.  LOL.  Anyway, I spent a bit of time trying to make sure I wasn't being heretical, so I'm going to post this anyway.  Tongue

The Trinity is three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  

One of these Persons, the Son, became man.  The Father and the Holy Spirit did not become man, only the Son.  Without "leaving" where he always was, the Son entered into creation in a way he had not before, as one of us.  We know him as Jesus.  

Being divine, he is incapable of dying, but having become man, he has taken upon himself "body, mind, and soul, and everything that is in man, truly and not in semblance" (cf. liturgical creed, Armenian Apostolic Church), without ceasing to be divine as he always was.  He was incapable of dying before he became man, but afterwards not only could he die, but he did die.  In this sense, we can say that "God died on the Cross", but it is only in this sense.  The Father and the Holy Spirit did not die on the Cross, the Trinity did not die on the Cross.    
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« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2013, 12:34:54 PM »

theres obliously no reasoning with you guys so ill leave it to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE
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« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2013, 12:35:43 PM »

if anybody has any objections to this logic i would be happy to debate them in a civil and noncritical way as i have stated i am tolerant of other peoples belief systems

Let me commend you for being honest with your position about your beliefs about God. (Your central belief is that He does not exist.) I regret to tell you that there is no way that I can convince you of God's existence and His interaction with us by means of debate.

I can also commend you for respecting others' beliefs. You mentioned spending Pascha at church and with your family. That is good. I hope that if nothing else you enjoy the festivities simply as a good time together with people whom you love and who love you.

You say that you are "greek". Does that mean you are in Greece and that Greek is your main language? Or are you US/Canadian/etc. of Greek ethnicity? I ask that because others have commented on the quality of English that you use. Whichever the case, I hope you keep working on your mastery of written English.

Thank you for taking the chance to engage in conversation here - you trusted that we would be here and would listen and respond. I hope someday you'll have the courage to take the same chance with God - that He will be there and will listen and respond.
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« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2013, 12:38:40 PM »

theres obliously no reasoning with you guys so ill leave it to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE

What you've been doing is not reasoning. You've been bouncing off the walls all over the place, throwing points here and there and following up on nothing. Debate takes a bit more than that.

Instead of 'documentaries' with obvious agendas, and unresearched ones at that, we invite you to stay, read around and educate yourself on what we believe and why.
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« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2013, 12:40:29 PM »

theres obliously no reasoning with you guys so ill leave it to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE

Zeitgeist  Grin
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"But slay her he did not, for between dream and deed laws and practicalities remain"
-Willem Elschot, 'The Marriage'.
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