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Poll
Question: Do you agree with Ecumenism between the EO, RC & OO traditions?
Yes to all - 35 (48.6%)
No to all - 19 (26.4%)
EO & OO only - 17 (23.6%)
EO & RC only - 1 (1.4%)
OO & RC only - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 72

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Author Topic: Ecumenism vs anti-Ecumenism  (Read 10972 times) Average Rating: 0
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Mor Ephrem
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« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2013, 10:02:10 PM »

If it involves coffee at all, it needs to be stopped. police

Here I was thinking "Nephi is a lovely, sensible Orthodox Christian with an unfortunate predilection for RC devotional statues" and then you say something like this and ruin my opinion of you.  What, are you a follower of Paul of Samosata as well?! 

I spit on you, and heaven smiles on me. 
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« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2013, 10:02:24 PM »

Tongue
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« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2013, 10:14:48 PM »

If it involves coffee at all, it needs to be stopped. police

Here I was thinking "Nephi is a lovely, sensible Orthodox Christian with an unfortunate predilection for RC devotional statues" and then you say something like this and ruin my opinion of you.  What, are you a follower of Paul of Samosata as well?! 

I spit on you, and heaven smiles on me. 

I would say that my stint in Mormonism influenced me, but that would be a lie. In all humility, I was saved from the stain of coffee at the moment of my conception.

So it's best not to spit on me, else you'll be condemned forevermore to Gehenna for rejecting the Nephite dogma infallibly defined by HH Pope Pius IX.
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Mor Ephrem
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« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2013, 10:21:44 PM »

I won't spit on you.  If I did, I would be insulting my spit.  Hrmph! 
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« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2013, 10:48:17 PM »

If ecumenism means joining together in prayer and good works, then I am all for it! Thumbs up!

If it means compromising our beliefs, no absolutely not.

If it means certain instances of inter-communion, not so sure about that one.

If it means discussing our similarities and differences, sure!!!! Sounds good!

When does full communion happen? When by a miracle of grace, God changes the hearts of the side who is in the wrong.... Or when Christ returns.  Wink
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« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2013, 10:57:51 PM »

If ecumenism means joining together in prayer...I am all for it!...If it means compromising our beliefs, no absolutely not.

That's a contradiction

Canon law prohibits joint prayer with heretics. You'd be compromising your beliefs by praying with them.
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Mor Ephrem
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« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2013, 11:12:18 PM »

Canon law prohibits joint prayer with heretics. You'd be compromising your beliefs by praying with them.

"Canon law"...lol. 
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« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2013, 11:15:51 PM »

Canon law prohibits joint prayer with heretics. You'd be compromising your beliefs by praying with them.

"Canon law"...lol. 

Canon law requires that all one-nature-believin' council deniers step into the cannon!

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« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2013, 11:25:24 PM »

Subscribed
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« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2013, 11:28:25 PM »

Canon law prohibits joint prayer with heretics. You'd be compromising your beliefs by praying with them.

"Canon law"...lol.  

It wouldn't surprise me that non-Chalcedonians don't have a Canon law



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« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2013, 11:49:30 PM »

It wouldn't surprise me that Monophysites don't have a Canon law

Allow me to clarify my comment, since your ignorance got in the way of comprehension.  The holy canons, within the Orthodox tradition, do not operate as a "code of canon law" does in the Roman Catholic tradition.  You can't use the term "canon law" as a shorthand for the holy canons as if they're the same thing.  If you want more than that, I suggest you stop acting like an unweaned suckling and read a book.   
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« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2013, 12:02:42 AM »

While I voted for dialogues between Eastern Orthodoxy and the Roman Catholic Church and the Oriental Orthodox Churches, I don't support the excesses of ecumenical encounters, though I know determining what are "excesses" is debatable.

I do not believe either of the churches noted in the poll will unite with the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church in the foreseeable future; the Roman Catholics will not renounce their innovations of the 2nd millennium---neither will they renounce the authority the Pope of Rome has assumed beyond being the senior hierarch of the church, enjoying primacy of honor without jurisdiction beyond his see; and Oriental Orthodox Churches will not in unity accept the dogmas of the 4th Ecumenical Synod (Council), as they were promulgated and ratified. Yet, frank, but respectful dialogues that outline the specific positions of the disputed matters of theology and the matters upon which they agree, by each church, may prove productive.

However, I believe the traditional churches, Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, Oriental Orthodoxy, and evangelical Protestant churches should forge some sort of an alliance, creating a forum that would speak the message of Jesus Christ to the world on the many matters and issues upon which these churches agree.  I used to include the Anglican Communion and Trinitarian Protestants, but those churches that are ordaining homosexuals and women should not speak with traditional churches, compromising the Christian message.  The reason why I advocate for such a grouping is that the overwhelming demonic influence in the world today is manifested in the Moslem religion that teaches so many uncivilized of their followers, to "kill them with the sword,*" "them" referring to the "infidel," Christians and Jews; fostering "religious" support for terrorism.  And the Moslem religion is growing rapidly.


*Prophet Mohamed
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« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2013, 12:14:57 AM »

Canon law requires that all one-nature-believin' council deniers step into the cannon!



That is a sweet cannon.  And after it's done with me, I've got a list of people that should share my fate.  Tongue
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« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2013, 12:36:33 AM »

Canon law prohibits joint prayer with heretics. You'd be compromising your beliefs by praying with them.

"Canon law"...lol. 
Lot of canon laws the Church doesn't follow anymore.
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« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2013, 12:37:36 AM »

It wouldn't surprise me that Monophysites don't have a Canon law

Allow me to clarify my comment, since your ignorance got in the way of comprehension.  The holy canons, within the Orthodox tradition, do not operate as a "code of canon law" does in the Roman Catholic tradition.  You can't use the term "canon law" as a shorthand for the holy canons as if they're the same thing.  If you want more than that, I suggest you stop acting like an unweaned suckling and read a book.    

Which Orthodox tradition? The "imperial" one that you like to rail against or the bom-bom biggy smoking, Judaizing, dreadlock wearing non-Chalcedonian one that you come from? If the former is barely capable of articulating what it believes, I strongly doubt the latter can.



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« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2013, 12:38:47 AM »

It wouldn't surprise me that Monophysites don't have a Canon law

Allow me to clarify my comment, since your ignorance got in the way of comprehension.  The holy canons, within the Orthodox tradition, do not operate as a "code of canon law" does in the Roman Catholic tradition.  You can't use the term "canon law" as a shorthand for the holy canons as if they're the same thing.  If you want more than that, I suggest you stop acting like an unweaned suckling and read a book.   

To be fair, I think James was originally referring to Papist's "canon laws," him being one of them juridical pope worshippers 'n all. But yes, he's wrong that we Orthodox (and I use the word exclusively, of course, knowing full well that you so called "Oriental Orthodox" are just crypto-Nestorians with better beards than us) have the same sort of thing.

EDIT: By the way, I should be clear that I'm being entirely facetious with these "insults" Tongue, as I'm sure you know that I consider us both to be Orthodox, and I also don't consider Roman Catholics to be juridical pope worshippers. Some other posters might not be joking though.
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« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2013, 12:39:47 AM »

Canon law prohibits joint prayer with heretics. You'd be compromising your beliefs by praying with them.

"Canon law"...lol. 
Lot of canon laws the Church doesn't follow anymore.

lol like that one about not seeing a Jewish doctor Smiley
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« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2013, 12:47:09 AM »

Canon law prohibits joint prayer with heretics. You'd be compromising your beliefs by praying with them.

"Canon law"...lol. 
Lot of canon laws the Church doesn't follow anymore.

Some of the canons weren't followed as soon as the ink was dried.  A particularly interesting case of not following a canon was when Sts. Gregory Nazianzen, Basil the Great, etc. championed the Council of Nicea, yet ignored canon 15 of that council so as to more effectively defend Nicene theology. And while the Alexandrians called them on it, it's a good thing for the Church that the uncanonical actions were allowed to stand. I guess you could always bring in the argument that bishops decide when to apply the canons and how, but St. Gregory made an effort to show that he hadn't in fact violated the canon, so...

Anyway, digressions...
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« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2013, 12:47:38 AM »

It wouldn't surprise me that Monophysites don't have a Canon law

Allow me to clarify my comment, since your ignorance got in the way of comprehension.  The holy canons, within the Orthodox tradition, do not operate as a "code of canon law" does in the Roman Catholic tradition.  You can't use the term "canon law" as a shorthand for the holy canons as if they're the same thing.  If you want more than that, I suggest you stop acting like an unweaned suckling and read a book.   

Which Orthodox tradition? The "imperial" one that you like to rail against or the bom-bom biggy smoking, Judaizing, dreadlock wearing monophysite one that you come from? If the former is barely capable of articulating what it believes, I strongly doubt the latter can.

Never mind the books.  "Breast" really is best for you.  
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« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2013, 12:51:15 AM »

It wouldn't surprise me that Monophysites don't have a Canon law

Allow me to clarify my comment, since your ignorance got in the way of comprehension.  The holy canons, within the Orthodox tradition, do not operate as a "code of canon law" does in the Roman Catholic tradition.  You can't use the term "canon law" as a shorthand for the holy canons as if they're the same thing.  If you want more than that, I suggest you stop acting like an unweaned suckling and read a book.   

Which Orthodox tradition? The "imperial" one that you like to rail against or the bom-bom biggy smoking, Judaizing, dreadlock wearing monophysite one that you come from? If the former is barely capable of articulating what it believes, I strongly doubt the latter can.

Never mind the books.  "Breast" really is best for you.  

That's where the joke is on you because I actually ate fried chicken breast tonight while reading a book  Wink
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« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2013, 12:51:47 AM »

To be fair, I think James was originally referring to Papist's "canon laws," him being one of them juridical pope worshippers 'n all. But yes, he's wrong that we Orthodox (and I use the word exclusively, of course, knowing full well that you so called "Oriental Orthodox" are just crypto-Nestorians with better beards than us) have the same sort of thing.

EDIT: By the way, I should be clear that I'm being entirely facetious with these "insults" Tongue, as I'm sure you know that I consider us both to be Orthodox, and I also don't consider Roman Catholics to be juridical pope worshippers. Some other posters might not be joking though.

Our beards are sexy, you're right about that.  Thanks for noticing!  Tongue
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« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2013, 12:52:15 AM »

It wouldn't surprise me that Monophysites don't have a Canon law

Allow me to clarify my comment, since your ignorance got in the way of comprehension.  The holy canons, within the Orthodox tradition, do not operate as a "code of canon law" does in the Roman Catholic tradition.  You can't use the term "canon law" as a shorthand for the holy canons as if they're the same thing.  If you want more than that, I suggest you stop acting like an unweaned suckling and read a book.    

Which Orthodox tradition? The "imperial" one that you like to rail against or the bom-bom biggy smoking, Judaizing, dreadlock wearing monophysite one that you come from? If the former is barely capable of articulating what it believes, I strongly doubt the latter can.

Never mind the books.  "Breast" really is best for you.  

That's where the joke is on you because I actually ate fried chicken breast tonight while reading a book  Wink

you broke the friday fast

oh well i did too

am I an ecumenist now?
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« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2013, 12:53:16 AM »

That's where the joke is on you because I actually ate fried chicken breast tonight while reading a book  Wink

No, my friend, the joke will always be on you...  Tongue
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« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2013, 12:54:27 AM »

you broke the friday fast

oh well i did too

am I an ecumenist now?

No, it's Thursday where James is, so he's OK as long as he's on the old calendar.  But if not, then he's naughty. 
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« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2013, 12:58:43 AM »

you broke the friday fast

oh well i did too

am I an ecumenist now?

No, it's Thursday where James is, so he's OK as long as he's on the old calendar.  But if not, then he's naughty. 

Dormition Fast. Eternal paradise revoked for all who even drove past a KFC today!
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« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2013, 12:59:14 AM »

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« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2013, 01:00:25 AM »

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« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2013, 01:00:52 AM »

you broke the friday fast

oh well i did too

am I an ecumenist now?

No, it's Thursday where James is, so he's OK as long as he's on the old calendar.  But if not, then he's naughty. 

Dormition Fast. Eternal paradise revoked for all who even drove past a KFC today!

My Fasting is different. Seeing that I'm still under the control of my heathen parents and at the mercy of their cooking (as amazing as it is), my Priest says I only have to fast from eating snacks in between meals and from going back for seconds at meals.
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« Reply #73 on: August 02, 2013, 01:05:09 AM »

SMH
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« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2013, 01:07:34 AM »

Dear OP, why did you make this in the Orthodox-Catholic discussion!? You should have put it in Religious Issues, where we can say all kinds of nasty things. Also, this is a biased poll, since it is in Orthodox-Catholic discussion! What, what about protestant ecumenism which is also being pushed by Istanbul Patriarchate? It is not in the poll!

also, what is the point of having catholics vote, they will just vote for everyone since it is now their official policy

should have limited the poll to only orthodox


you broke the friday fast

oh well i did too

am I an ecumenist now?

No, it's Thursday where James is, so he's OK as long as he's on the old calendar.  But if not, then he's naughty. 

Dormition Fast. Eternal paradise revoked for all who even drove past a KFC today!

My Fasting is different. Seeing that I'm still under the control of my heathen parents and at the mercy of their cooking (as amazing as it is), my Priest says I only have to fast from eating snacks in between meals and from going back for seconds at meals.

What kind of priest says that!

is outrage!

Just tell your parents, "I am not hungry" and drink water!

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« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2013, 01:11:24 AM »

Not an option for me. My mom will make me eat. She already thinks I'm manorexic.
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« Reply #76 on: August 02, 2013, 01:15:49 AM »

you broke the friday fast

oh well i did too

am I an ecumenist now?

No, it's Thursday where James is, so he's OK as long as he's on the old calendar.  But if not, then he's naughty. 

Dormition Fast. Eternal paradise revoked for all who even drove past a KFC today!

My Fasting is different. Seeing that I'm still under the control of my heathen parents and at the mercy of their cooking (as amazing as it is), my Priest says I only have to fast from eating snacks in between meals and from going back for seconds at meals.

I wasn't really calling you out; you didn't need to explain your fasting rule to us or anyone. Sounds like your priest has you headed down the sane path.
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« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2013, 01:23:22 AM »

Not an option for me. My mom will make me eat. She already thinks I'm manorexic.

Manorexic? I should not have googled that

 Grin Grin Grin

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« Reply #78 on: August 02, 2013, 01:55:22 AM »

Only term worse is bigorexia.
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« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2013, 02:21:10 AM »

Not an option for me. My mom will make me eat. She already thinks I'm manorexic.

Manorexic? I should not have googled that

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Man-orexia is "lust for men".   Tongue 
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« Reply #80 on: August 02, 2013, 02:43:11 AM »

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« Reply #81 on: August 02, 2013, 02:48:39 AM »

If they all become Orthodox. So, we can't really talk about ecumenism if we all "become one". Sure, we need to become one, but as Orthodox; otherwise it's just talk or minor issues (which can be good too).
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« Reply #82 on: August 02, 2013, 08:19:21 AM »

Dear OP, why did you make this in the Orthodox-Catholic discussion!? You should have put it in Religious Issues, where we can say all kinds of nasty things. Also, this is a biased poll, since it is in Orthodox-Catholic discussion! What, what about protestant ecumenism which is also being pushed by Istanbul Patriarchate? It is not in the poll!

also, what is the point of having catholics vote, they will just vote for everyone since it is now their official policy

should have limited the poll to only orthodox


you broke the friday fast

oh well i did too

am I an ecumenist now?

No, it's Thursday where James is, so he's OK as long as he's on the old calendar.  But if not, then he's naughty. 

Dormition Fast. Eternal paradise revoked for all who even drove past a KFC today!

My Fasting is different. Seeing that I'm still under the control of my heathen parents and at the mercy of their cooking (as amazing as it is), my Priest says I only have to fast from eating snacks in between meals and from going back for seconds at meals.

What kind of priest says that!

is outrage!

Just tell your parents, "I am not hungry" and drink water!


I didn't know where to put it, so it my continuing tradition of failure, I threw it in the first subforum that I saw.

I wasn't interested in just Orthodox perspective, I was interested in the perspective of the forum.  Smiley
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« Reply #83 on: August 02, 2013, 08:54:36 AM »

It wouldn't surprise me that Monophysites don't have a Canon law

Allow me to clarify my comment, since your ignorance got in the way of comprehension.  The holy canons, within the Orthodox tradition, do not operate as a "code of canon law" does in the Roman Catholic tradition.  You can't use the term "canon law" as a shorthand for the holy canons as if they're the same thing.  If you want more than that, I suggest you stop acting like an unweaned suckling and read a book.   

George Bernard Shaw said it best, Mor: "Youth is wasted on the young." 
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« Reply #84 on: August 02, 2013, 09:01:14 AM »

It wouldn't surprise me that Monophysites don't have a Canon law

Allow me to clarify my comment, since your ignorance got in the way of comprehension.  The holy canons, within the Orthodox tradition, do not operate as a "code of canon law" does in the Roman Catholic tradition.  You can't use the term "canon law" as a shorthand for the holy canons as if they're the same thing.  If you want more than that, I suggest you stop acting like an unweaned suckling and read a book.    

To be fair, I think James was originally referring to Papist's "canon laws," him being one of them juridical pope worshippers 'n all. But yes, he's wrong that we Orthodox (and I use the word exclusively, of course, knowing full well that you so called "Oriental Orthodox" are just crypto-Nestorians with better beards than us) have the same sort of thing.

EDIT: By the way, I should be clear that I'm being entirely facetious with these "insults" Tongue, as I'm sure you know that I consider us both to be Orthodox, and I also don't consider Roman Catholics to be juridical pope worshippers. Some other posters might not be joking though.

The pathetic thing is that we need edits like yours since some readers and posters would agree with your unedited post. Sometimes the Forum reads like a particularly unfunny "Onion Dome" parody.

A good Dormiton fast practice for us all might be to try refrain from unsubstantiated opinion or unnecessary rudeness.
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« Reply #85 on: August 02, 2013, 09:08:24 AM »

If they all become Orthodox. So, we can't really talk about ecumenism if we all "become one". Sure, we need to become one, but as Orthodox; otherwise it's just talk or minor issues (which can be good too).

Not to worry. If everybody became Orthodox, we could have many threads circling about who was "more" Orthodox....oh wait, we all ready have those....
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« Reply #86 on: August 02, 2013, 10:38:39 AM »

EDIT: By the way, I should be clear that I'm being entirely facetious with these "insults" Tongue, as I'm sure you know that I consider us both to be Orthodox, and I also don't consider Roman Catholics to be juridical pope worshippers. Some other posters might not be joking though.

The pathetic thing is that we need edits like yours since some readers and posters would agree with your unedited post. Sometimes the Forum reads like a particularly unfunny "Onion Dome" parody.

That literally made me LOL.

Quote
A good Dormiton fast practice for us all might be to try refrain from unsubstantiated opinion or unnecessary rudeness.

Yeah, right...never gonna happen.  As everyone knows, unsubstantiated opinion and unnecessary rudeness are not meat or dairy products, so they are OK for consumption during fasts.  Why skip on protein when you don't have to?  Do you like to suffer when doing penance?  How Catholic of you.  Tongue 
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« Reply #87 on: August 02, 2013, 11:14:32 AM »

Canon law prohibits joint prayer with heretics. You'd be compromising your beliefs by praying with them.

"Canon law"...lol. 

It wouldn't surprise me that Monophysites don't have a Canon law

And your poll numbers keep dropping.
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« Reply #88 on: August 02, 2013, 12:30:48 PM »

Well, coming from a Catholic background ecumencism generally means praying with infidels, Jews, and other heathens. I do not mind talks between Orthodoxy and the Latins if truth is not compromised. I suppose now I am pretty much convinced of Orthodoxy, though I am still not rushing, but there can be a talk on debatable issues. I think the Immaculate Conception is likely one. I am no longer convinced of it and making it it a doctrine as the Latins have seems to be a problem, but it can make a theory. But that goes back to the Latin versus Eastern west of Original Sin. The Eastern view does not make the conception of the Theotokos being born with Original Sin such a problem, but the post-Augustinian Latin view creates problems. Purgatory some might say can be a theory, but it seems to be too much a denial of the Orthodox idea of death and Hades. Papal infallibility, as I have often said, is the biggest thing between East and West. Yes, with Vatican II Rome has not pushed that anymore, but it is still on their books and their treatment of the SSPX shows that canonically Rome still thinks it is schism to go against the Pope. So in theory the Pope is still Supreme Bishop of all Bishops and Universal in Jurisdiction.

As for the Oriental I do not know too much about them other than they did not agree with the united, single divine-human nature of Christ, rather confusing it. This seems a clear heresy to me, though I know some have said the Orientals do not have the same believes on this as they used to. Like I said I know so little on it, especially since I am just looking into Eastern Orthodoxy myself from a Roman Catholic perspective. Since I was traditional Roman Catholic I am not a fan of kissing Korans or praying with Protestants and Jews, but a union of East and West would be nice, but the issues dividing us seem to be too much. So I am not sure. Vatican II has not helped because now Rome is constantly contradicting its past ways, but not outright. They will not just come out and deny the papal infalibility thing, even if they talk about collegiality after Vatican II.
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Aristotle says in the Metaphysics that "in mathematics goodness does not exist." It is a rather great quote to show to any math teacher when they tell you how important math is. Give them a riddle: I am not tall, I am not short, nor big nor take up any space but simply am. I have no name but I am.
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« Reply #89 on: August 02, 2013, 12:47:21 PM »

As for the Oriental I do not know too much about them other than they did not agree with the united, single divine-human nature of Christ, rather confusing it. This seems a clear heresy to me, though I know some have said the Orientals do not have the same believes on this as they used to. Like I said I know so little on it...

Other than what I bolded, this is all wrong.  But that's OK, we forgive you.   Kiss 
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