Author Topic: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents  (Read 5799 times)

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Online Cyrillic

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2013, 03:55:44 AM »
(the Great Books people).

The what?
the great books curriculum is quite popular among a small segment of american conservatives. afaik it's of straussian inspiration. perhaps some philosophia perennis thrown in as well.

Why is that a bad thing?
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2013, 03:59:35 AM »
My Biology teacher was in favor of population control. also, she showed constantly a "REAL TIME NUMBER OF ALL TREES IN THE WORLD, WATCH AS THEY ALL FALL!!!!"

I made a nice graph, showing population rising when we got those new fangled farming equipment and the great migration to cities. anyway, she was very happy that I drew at the end of the graph a line going down. (lower population)


what does this have to do with the op? i don't know, its 3 AM
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2013, 11:34:56 PM »
Blah, the OP article is just the exception from the rule.

Then there are homeschoolers like this young lady, who has authored several books, is an excellent photographer, and runs a magazine that is more dedicated to Christianity, than many things I've read.
http://kingsbloomingrose.com/

Often people who decide to be worldly hold hostility towards their parents who protected them from worldly things.   Some are mad because their parents didn't let them go to parties and get drunk in high school.  Later they blame "religious fanaticism" of their parents for all their faults.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but almost every homeschooler that I know believes in the scriptures and holds true to "training their children up in the lord".   Most try to teach them to follow God's will.
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Offline mike

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2013, 06:57:09 AM »
Most try to teach them to follow God's will.

What seems for them to be God's will.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2013, 09:31:24 AM »
Most try to teach them to follow God's will.

What seems for them to be God's will.

Therein 'lies the rub' as Shakespeare noted.... How one discerns God's will is far from a unanimous thing among any culture's peoples.

Offline pensateomnia

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2013, 10:08:08 AM »
(the Great Books people).

The what?
the great books curriculum is quite popular among a small segment of american conservatives. afaik it's of straussian inspiration. perhaps some philosophia perennis thrown in as well.

Why is that a bad thing?

Most "Great Books" programs at the university level are not conservative at all. Straussian ideas would be considered fringe, except in one or two places, as would any kind of "conservatism."

The movement began in Europe in the mid 19th century and was popularized in the US by Charles Eliot at Harvard as a kind of democratic form of adult education: if you aren't one of the blue bloods who can come to Harvard, then read this pre-packed set of "Harvard Classics" and you will become an educated person.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2013, 12:13:25 PM »
Most try to teach them to follow God's will.

What seems for them to be God's will.

Yes, they take what God said literally, and accept it as his will.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2013, 05:33:22 PM »
Hey, leave the Great Books alone. I know it is an American conservative reactionary thing, but its the best we can hope for in Amerika. I am a big fan of Great Books in the Most Serene Republic of the Godless Fremasonic Idiotic Libertarians.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2013, 05:38:51 PM »
Actually I think it can be said to be a general Anglo-American reactionary thing. Anglo-American religion and politics is messed up. If I was going to be a liberal, I would just be a communist because that is taking the Enlightenment ideals to their conclusion. Neo-conservatism and paleo-conservatism is just conservative liberalism of the 18th century. It is based on deism and secular humanism. It's a result, I am realising, of Western rationalism, but I am trying to avoid getting to emotional in my journey east. But one does begin to tire or Western legalaism and rationalism. It's such a deep issue, and not black and white. It's why I am not sure there is much hope in American politics. Everything is black and white, socialist vs capitalist, conservative vs liberal, constitution vs statism, liberatairn vs statist. The simple thing is to blame rationalism, though its not that simple.
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Offline Keble

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2013, 07:23:08 AM »
Well I did all three during my lifetime: homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling. Each of them were good in some ways and bad in others. Personally, I think the very worst out of the three was private schooling, because it was just an indoctrination ground for Evangelical religious-right weirdos to teach us their theology, ignore sections in the science textbook, and try to force right-wing politics on us, going so far as to tell us to try to urge our parents to vote for McCain over Obama.

Well, if you had gone to a good Episcopal school, you wouldn't have either of those problems....

Offline Keble

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2013, 07:34:18 AM »
Actually I think it can be said to be a general Anglo-American reactionary thing. Anglo-American religion and politics is messed up. If I was going to be a liberal, I would just be a communist because that is taking the Enlightenment ideals to their conclusion.

Hmmmm, didn't go to one of those Episcopal schools, I see.....

Quote
Neo-conservatism and paleo-conservatism is just conservative liberalism of the 18th century.

Better, maybe....

Quote
It is based on deism and secular humanism. It's a result, I am realising, of Western rationalism, but I am trying to avoid getting to emotional in my journey east.

...where all they've ever heard of is autocracy and subservience to the throne. Look, there are probably more subtle ways to look at the ostensibly conservative/liberal split in American politics; the fact that the supposedly hopelessly liberal president has a comprehensive spying program on everyone and that his only serious opposition seems to be a few cranky public affairs journals and a single loopy libertarian congresscritter shows that the conventional casting of the parties is, as usual, inaccurate. Meanwhile eastern irrationalism produces Putin and 1/5 of the PIIGS. You can snark about western rationalism all you want, but seeing as how every aspect of the medium which carries your snarking is a product of western rationalism, you really don't have a leg to stand on.

Offline john_mo

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2013, 06:36:19 AM »
I know several products of home-schooling from the US, Canada, Australia and England.  Every single one of them is socially awkward and to a substantial degree.  It has become predictable for me.

However, I have seen some good examples of children who have had mixed home-schooling.
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Offline Seraphim98

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2013, 10:02:42 PM »
I've been in education for several years and have taught both in public and private schools and at jr. colleges. I have met precisely 1 homeschooled student I believed would have been better off in the public or private system. Every other homeschooler I've known has been well adjusted, mature, and possessed an education at graduation that was far superior to their publicly graduated classmates in many respects. They tracked a year to two ahead of their public peers in just about every academic discipline. Granted I may have been fortunate in the homeschoolers I've met, but for those that I did meet, it was definitely the better choice for them and their families…with that one exception.

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2014, 09:01:46 AM »
I've been in education for several years and have taught both in public and private schools and at jr. colleges. I have met precisely 1 homeschooled student I believed would have been better off in the public or private system. Every other homeschooler I've known has been well adjusted, mature, and possessed an education at graduation that was far superior to their publicly graduated classmates in many respects. They tracked a year to two ahead of their public peers in just about every academic discipline. Granted I may have been fortunate in the homeschoolers I've met, but for those that I did meet, it was definitely the better choice for them and their families…with that one exception.

Interesting how we have opposite opinions based on our experiences. 

I really would like it if what you said is true, but at the moment, I fear that homeschooling bears some strange fruit.  I worked with a couple of Orthodox that were home schooled.  They were priest kids and everyone thought they were weird, including yours truly. 
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2014, 02:59:46 PM »
I've been in education for several years and have taught both in public and private schools and at jr. colleges. I have met precisely 1 homeschooled student I believed would have been better off in the public or private system. Every other homeschooler I've known has been well adjusted, mature, and possessed an education at graduation that was far superior to their publicly graduated classmates in many respects. They tracked a year to two ahead of their public peers in just about every academic discipline. Granted I may have been fortunate in the homeschoolers I've met, but for those that I did meet, it was definitely the better choice for them and their families…with that one exception.

Interesting how we have opposite opinions based on our experiences. 

I really would like it if what you said is true, but at the moment, I fear that homeschooling bears some strange fruit.  I worked with a couple of Orthodox that were home schooled.  They were priest kids and everyone thought they were weird, including yours truly. 

You thought the kids were weird so therefore all homeschooled kids are weird?  What kind of warped logic is that?

I am a teacher as well.  i've been in both the private and public systems.  Every year my students compete against homeschooled kids at the NeJCL convention.  The homeschooled kids always do very well.  During the social events, they are fine and mingle and socialize just like any other kid there.  So, since this is my experience, therefore, homeschooled kids are not weird.  My experience trumps yours.  Isn't that the thrust of your whole argument?
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Offline john_mo

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2015, 06:19:53 AM »
I've been in education for several years and have taught both in public and private schools and at jr. colleges. I have met precisely 1 homeschooled student I believed would have been better off in the public or private system. Every other homeschooler I've known has been well adjusted, mature, and possessed an education at graduation that was far superior to their publicly graduated classmates in many respects. They tracked a year to two ahead of their public peers in just about every academic discipline. Granted I may have been fortunate in the homeschoolers I've met, but for those that I did meet, it was definitely the better choice for them and their families…with that one exception.

Interesting how we have opposite opinions based on our experiences. 

I really would like it if what you said is true, but at the moment, I fear that homeschooling bears some strange fruit.  I worked with a couple of Orthodox that were home schooled.  They were priest kids and everyone thought they were weird, including yours truly. 

You thought the kids were weird so therefore all homeschooled kids are weird?  What kind of warped logic is that?

I am a teacher as well.  i've been in both the private and public systems.  Every year my students compete against homeschooled kids at the NeJCL convention.  The homeschooled kids always do very well.  During the social events, they are fine and mingle and socialize just like any other kid there.  So, since this is my experience, therefore, homeschooled kids are not weird.  My experience trumps yours.  Isn't that the thrust of your whole argument?

All I was saying was that of the sample size I've met, most of them were socially awkward.  You are welcome to your own opinion based on the homeschoolers you've encountered, but obviously I trust what I've witnessed more than what you've witnessed. Admittedly, however, it's a difficult thing to measure.

Now having said that I have changed my opinion since I wrote that a year ago.  This helped shed new light on the matter: http://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/homeschooling-not-just-for-hippies-and-religious-people-anymore/

I recommend it to anyone who is interested in homeschooling.  Despite my opinion on the homeschoolers I've met, I now think that it's a viable option, at least in the US where the public school system is often sub-par.
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2015, 09:43:28 AM »
Research shows that the current education systems are not in the best interest of children. I am studying Early Childhood Education, and even some of my professors home schooled their children at least through the early years. I'm happy research is looking into this because it is important to ask why certain things are how they are and who do they benefit. Should children really be spending 7 hours away from their family starting at as early as 5 years old? My professors say all this started with industrialization.

From a spiritual perspective I do think children should spend their childhood with their family, and not most of their day at school. Mother and fathers can teach the academic curriculum and spend time nurturing the relationship with their children and with God.

I do not think these negative situations represent all homeschooling. I know of many loving Orthodox families that home school their children and their children are very joyful. They socialize all the time with cousins, other children in the Orthodox community and even travel more because of the freedom. Socialization isn't a problem when homeschooling is done right.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 09:44:37 AM by Alxandra »
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2015, 09:49:27 AM »
My professors say all this started with industrialization.

Do they also say that, before then, those who could afford education for their children hired tutors and governesses, while those who couldn't remained illiterate?
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2015, 09:54:30 AM »
My professors say all this started with industrialization.

Do they also say that, before then, those who could afford education for their children hired tutors and governesses, while those who couldn't remained illiterate?

There is nothing wrong with education, I'm talking about the current education system and what schools look like now in North America and Western Europe. Education can be done in a way that doesn't separate the family and take away the joys of childhood. Children should not have to keep up with the busy working schedule of their parents. This is an unpopular opinion so forgive me if I offend, but this is why it is very healthy for the child to have the mother home.

I realize not all mothers are able to stay home, that is why this research is being done - to make the schools more home-like. Kindergartens have already changed in Canada for this reason. So if you are able to homeschool that is wonderful and it is a very good option for children, if not the most natural.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 10:02:32 AM by Alxandra »
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2015, 10:05:25 AM »
My professors say all this started with industrialization.

Do they also say that, before then, those who could afford education for their children hired tutors and governesses, while those who couldn't remained illiterate?

There is nothing wrong with education, I'm talking about the current education system and what schools look like now in North America and Western Europe. Education can be done in a way that doesn't separate the family and take away the joys of childhood. Children should not have to keep up with the busy working schedule of their parents. This is an unpopular opinion so forgive me if I offend, but this is why it is very healthy for the child to have the mother home.

That's why we need a healthier education system, which isn't going to happen any time soon if every parent thinks their way is better.

Homeschooling as it is generally understood today is a product of the 1960s - hippie parents who didn't want their children 'indoctrinated' by the mainstream. Historically, it was never the parents' task to educate their children, at least not since education has meant something more than basic literacy and numeracy. It was always assigned to trained professionals, whether at home or abroad. School as we know it was invented at least as far back as classical Athens, where boys went daily to their tutors' house for lessons.

You're training to become an educator. Do you believe that the kind of training you are receiving is necessary to successfully educate a child? If yes, then all parents should get it, and none without such qualification should be allowed to teach their children. If not, then everything you and your professors are doing is a waste of time and resources.
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2015, 10:21:40 AM »
My professors say all this started with industrialization.

Do they also say that, before then, those who could afford education for their children hired tutors and governesses, while those who couldn't remained illiterate?

There is nothing wrong with education, I'm talking about the current education system and what schools look like now in North America and Western Europe. Education can be done in a way that doesn't separate the family and take away the joys of childhood. Children should not have to keep up with the busy working schedule of their parents. This is an unpopular opinion so forgive me if I offend, but this is why it is very healthy for the child to have the mother home.

That's why we need a healthier education system, which isn't going to happen any time soon if every parent thinks their way is better.

Homeschooling as it is generally understood today is a product of the 1960s - hippie parents who didn't want their children 'indoctrinated' by the mainstream. Historically, it was never the parents' task to educate their children, at least not since education has meant something more than basic literacy and numeracy. It was always assigned to trained professionals, whether at home or abroad. School as we know it was invented at least as far back as classical Athens, where boys went daily to their tutors' house for lessons.

You're training to become an educator. Do you believe that the kind of training you are receiving is necessary to successfully educate a child? If yes, then all parents should get it, and none without such qualification should be allowed to teach their children. If not, then everything you and your professors are doing is a waste of time and resources.

Children who are home schooled properly are more likely to get accepted into a university/college compared to 41% of those finishing high school.

And homeschooling is not outdated at all, it is the most natural way to educate children. There is a reason why now that people are becoming educated on children,early psychology, etc they are choosing to home school.   
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 10:22:01 AM by Alxandra »
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2015, 10:22:51 AM »
Thanks for dodging. It was all the answer I needed. :)
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2015, 10:28:52 AM »
Thanks for dodging. It was all the answer I needed. :)

What did I doge? I think you are misunderstanding me, I'm not saying education is not important. Of course my training is important, and like I said children who are home schooled are more likely to get accepted at a university or college.

The early years however should not be spent in our current education system and research shows how it was not made in the best interest of children, but instead for the busy work schedule of parents. In countries where mothers are more likely to stay home with their children, school ends at 12pm. I will gather some of the links we study in my program and post them here soon.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 10:29:27 AM by Alxandra »
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2015, 10:47:03 AM »
This is a great article we looked at. I think a preview is available.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0161956X.2013.798508#.VPsOjfzF9qU

"This article reviews research on homeschool learner outcomes and evaluates opposition to homeschooling. It synthesizes research on learner outcomes related to homeschooling in areas of students’ academic achievement and children's social, emotional, and psychological development and the success of adults who were home educated and finds generally positive outcomes on a variety of variables are associated with homeschooling. The author identifies four classes of negativity expressed toward home-based education by the education profession, such as the claims homeschooling is bad for the collective good and that without much state regulation significant numbers of homeschooling (home schooling) parents will harm their children. The evaluation reveals that proactive opposition to homeschooling and calls for significant state control over homeschooling do not offer any empirical research evidence that homeschooling is bad for individual children, families, neighborhoods, or the collective good. The alleged harms of homeschooling or arguments for more control of it are fundamentally philosophical and push for the state, rather than parents, to be in primary and ultimate control over the education and upbringing of children so they will come to hold worldviews more aligned with the state and opponents of state-free homeschooling than with the children's parents and freely chosen relationships."

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2015, 10:52:55 AM »

The former. Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

How is that any different than public school??????

I've taught in public school for ten years, and I all see coming from the humanities departments is indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination. Some of the science teachers are just as bad, and even denigrate students for being Christians. At least with private schools, families can choose the indoctrination they desire.

That hasn't been my experience growing up going to public school at all. Of course, I go to the kind of public school where we had "optional Bible class" in elementary school that I can only think of two people who didn't go to, and at least twice this year the school has offered excused absences to anyone going to a massive, month long revival service that has been going on in the area. On the other hand, my world history teacher did tell me that if it weren't for the Protestant Reformation we wouldn't have modern science as we'd all be trapped in "Catholic superstition."  ::)
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2015, 10:52:55 AM »
Then why are you studying to be part pf a system you think is not benefical for the child?

Stop wasting our(7-12) resources on something you feel to be wrong then

Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2015, 10:56:55 AM »
Then why are you studying to be part pf a system you think is not benefical for the child?

Stop wasting our(7-12) resources on something you feel to be wrong then

Early Childhood Education is about educating children. Not necessarily in a school system.. It very much incorporates homeschooling in the training and resources because it is a great option.

A lot of what we are learning is about how schools are failing children and how we as educators can change this. Educator does not equal a school board.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 11:00:13 AM by Alxandra »
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2015, 11:04:30 AM »
This is also a great book, I'm not sure if you can view the link because I'm using my student portal.

http://search.proquest.com.ezpxy.fanshawec.ca/docview/203255141?pq-origsite=summon

"Mary Griffith explores and answers questions about homeschooling in her new book, The Unschooling Handbook: How to Use the Whole World As Your Child's Classroom."
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2015, 12:02:11 PM »
This is not a scholarly article like the previous links but it has good points :)

http://www.raisesmartkid.com/6-to-10-years-old/5-articles/50-benefits-of-homeschooling-how-it-could-make-kids-smarter
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2015, 01:16:15 PM »
Then why are you studying to be part pf a system you think is not benefical for the child?

Stop wasting our(7-12) resources on something you feel to be wrong then

I'm a little biased against education classes, but I don't think this is fair. You and Arachne are both looking at this too black and white.

There are positive things about the educational system and there are negative, the same as homeschooling. In the same way, one can believe that a degree in education is not essential to educating a child but is still good to have for various reasons.

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2015, 01:23:44 PM »
They socialize all the time with cousins, other children in the Orthodox community and even travel more because of the freedom. Socialization isn't a problem when homeschooling is done right.

I think this is the key. In my area there's homeschool sports leagues, homeschool science fair, homeschool prom, lot's of stuff like that but my family never got around to taking advantage of it.

So now, the only thing I regret about my homeschooling (though admittedly, I didn't have the nightmare of PACE, extremist discipline, etc. that some did) is that I never had much practice at meeting people which is at least partially why I'm so socially awkward IRL.

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2015, 01:26:26 PM »
Well I did all three during my lifetime: homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling. Each of them were good in some ways and bad in others. Personally, I think the very worst out of the three was private schooling, because it was just an indoctrination ground for Evangelical religious-right weirdos to teach us their theology, ignore sections in the science textbook, and try to force right-wing politics on us, going so far as to tell us to try to urge our parents to vote for McCain over Obama.

Well, if you had gone to a good Episcopal school, you wouldn't have either of those problems....

Instead he'd have homosexuality, 60s liberalism, and the leaky sieve that is Anglican theology.

I know it's an old post, but I couldn't resist.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 01:26:56 PM by Volnutt »

Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2015, 01:29:37 PM »
They socialize all the time with cousins, other children in the Orthodox community and even travel more because of the freedom. Socialization isn't a problem when homeschooling is done right.

I think this is the key. In my area there's homeschool sports leagues, homeschool science fair, homeschool prom, lot's of stuff like that but my family never got around to taking advantage of it.

So now, the only thing I regret about my homeschooling (though admittedly, I didn't have the nightmare of PACE, extremist discipline, etc. that some did) is that I never had much practice at meeting people which is at least partially why I'm so socially awkward IRL.

Yeah definitely, there are awesome homeschooling communities and social events :) Where I live there is even an Orthodox homeschool community where many of the mothers are educated in Early Childhood Education. I love the program I am studying because It gives me the tools and understanding to educate children. I especially love how what they are teaching us is how to educate children not limited to a classroom or school system.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2015, 01:32:14 PM »
They socialize all the time with cousins, other children in the Orthodox community and even travel more because of the freedom. Socialization isn't a problem when homeschooling is done right.

I think this is the key. In my area there's homeschool sports leagues, homeschool science fair, homeschool prom, lot's of stuff like that but my family never got around to taking advantage of it.

So now, the only thing I regret about my homeschooling (though admittedly, I didn't have the nightmare of PACE, extremist discipline, etc. that some did) is that I never had much practice at meeting people which is at least partially why I'm so socially awkward IRL.

Some Orthodox Christian Churches have homeschooling groups who sponsor activities during the school week, as well as during the weekends, which include all parishioners. In this way, homeschoolers  would be able to interact with other families. Those activities include visiting the beach, museums, art galleries, movies, shows, pottery classes, petting zoos, farms with hayrides, apple-picking, pumpkin patches, and county fairs. When I was part of a homeschooling group, the parents were quite a talented and well educated group, so they offered classes in pottery, journalism, science, photography, computer science, math, English, history, French, Spanish, German, Latin, Greek, philosophy, Bible studies, golf, basketball, singing, sewing, crochet, painting, etc. We were able to attend many exciting field trips where many parents served as tour guides.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 01:34:18 PM by Maria »
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2015, 01:33:28 PM »
They socialize all the time with cousins, other children in the Orthodox community and even travel more because of the freedom. Socialization isn't a problem when homeschooling is done right.

I think this is the key. In my area there's homeschool sports leagues, homeschool science fair, homeschool prom, lot's of stuff like that but my family never got around to taking advantage of it.

So now, the only thing I regret about my homeschooling (though admittedly, I didn't have the nightmare of PACE, extremist discipline, etc. that some did) is that I never had much practice at meeting people which is at least partially why I'm so socially awkward IRL.

Some Orthodox Christian Churches have homeschooling groups who sponsor activities during the school week, as well as during the weekends, which include all parishioners. In this way, homeschoolers  would be able to interact with other families. Those activities include visiting the beach, museums, art galleries, movies, shows, pottery classes, petting zoos, farms with hayrides, apple-picking, pumpkin patches, and county fairs. When I was part of a homeschooling group, the parents were quite a talented and well educated group, so they offered classes in pottery, journalism, science, photography, computer science, math, English, philosophy, Bible studies, golf, basketball, singing, etc. We were able to attend many exciting field trips where many parents served as tour guides.

Ohh how wonderful! :)
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2015, 01:49:55 PM »
They socialize all the time with cousins, other children in the Orthodox community and even travel more because of the freedom. Socialization isn't a problem when homeschooling is done right.

I think this is the key. In my area there's homeschool sports leagues, homeschool science fair, homeschool prom, lot's of stuff like that but my family never got around to taking advantage of it.

So now, the only thing I regret about my homeschooling (though admittedly, I didn't have the nightmare of PACE, extremist discipline, etc. that some did) is that I never had much practice at meeting people which is at least partially why I'm so socially awkward IRL.

Some Orthodox Christian Churches have homeschooling groups who sponsor activities during the school week, as well as during the weekends, which include all parishioners. In this way, homeschoolers  would be able to interact with other families. Those activities include visiting the beach, museums, art galleries, movies, shows, pottery classes, petting zoos, farms with hayrides, apple-picking, pumpkin patches, and county fairs. When I was part of a homeschooling group, the parents were quite a talented and well educated group, so they offered classes in pottery, journalism, science, photography, computer science, math, English, history, French, Spanish, German, Latin, Greek, philosophy, Bible studies, golf, basketball, singing, sewing, crochet, painting, etc. We were able to attend many exciting field trips where many parents served as tour guides.

That's good :)

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2015, 01:53:13 PM »
Then why are you studying to be part pf a system you think is not benefical for the child?

Stop wasting our(7-12) resources on something you feel to be wrong then

I'm a little biased against education classes, but I don't think this is fair. You and Arachne are both looking at this too black and white.

I won't answer for TheMathematician, but what I'm against is the current situation of completely unmoderated homeschooling. As it is, any ignoramus out there can keep their children out of school and teach them (for certain values of the word) whatever they imagine is necessary.

What I asked is whether a knowledge of child psychology and teaching methodologies is necessary to make one a successful teacher. If such knowledge is necessary, then a parent should acquire it and prove it before they are allowed to homeschool. If such knowledge is not necessary and anyone can do it, then training such educators is a waste all around.
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2015, 01:56:53 PM »
Then why are you studying to be part pf a system you think is not benefical for the child?

Stop wasting our(7-12) resources on something you feel to be wrong then

I'm a little biased against education classes, but I don't think this is fair. You and Arachne are both looking at this too black and white.

I won't answer for TheMathematician, but what I'm against is the current situation of completely unmoderated homeschooling. As it is, any ignoramus out there can keep their children out of school and teach them (for certain values of the word) whatever they imagine is necessary.

What I asked is whether a knowledge of child psychology and teaching methodologies is necessary to make one a successful teacher. If such knowledge is necessary, then a parent should acquire it and prove it before they are allowed to homeschool. If such knowledge is not necessary and anyone can do it, then training such educators is a waste all around.

Yes those are important and the reason I am studying ECE.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2015, 02:05:46 PM »
Then why are you studying to be part pf a system you think is not benefical for the child?

Stop wasting our(7-12) resources on something you feel to be wrong then

I'm a little biased against education classes, but I don't think this is fair. You and Arachne are both looking at this too black and white.

I won't answer for TheMathematician, but what I'm against is the current situation of completely unmoderated homeschooling. As it is, any ignoramus out there can keep their children out of school and teach them (for certain values of the word) whatever they imagine is necessary.

What I asked is whether a knowledge of child psychology and teaching methodologies is necessary to make one a successful teacher. If such knowledge is necessary, then a parent should acquire it and prove it before they are allowed to homeschool. If such knowledge is not necessary and anyone can do it, then training such educators is a waste all around.

That's authoritarian, though. Parents are also people and not everybody who has enough time and money to have kids is also going to have the money, time, or interest necessary to get an education degree.

This is not to mention all the different kinds of education degrees that there are. If they only have an Early Childhood Ed. degree, are we only going to let them educate their kids until middle school? What about parents with developmentally disabled kids? Do they need a degree in Special Ed just to have their kids live at home?

I could support a state test and license with interviews, references, and home inspection. Anything else goes too far.

Also, teaching education is not in itself any more wasteful than offering science degrees when people can just read books about it and educate themselves, do their own experiments, etc.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 02:09:13 PM by Volnutt »

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #84 on: March 07, 2015, 02:19:32 PM »
Do you believe that the kind of training you are receiving is necessary to successfully educate a child?

The day I meet a teacher I can't debate circles around is the day I start taking Alzheimer's medication.

Quote
As it is, any ignoramus out there can keep their children out of school and teach them (for certain values of the word) whatever they imagine is necessary.

As it is, from my sample pool, any ignoramus can get an education degree just for showing up and agreeing to teach in an inner city school for the next 4 years.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 02:21:08 PM by FormerReformer »
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Offline Maria

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #85 on: March 07, 2015, 02:19:41 PM »
Then why are you studying to be part pf a system you think is not benefical for the child?

Stop wasting our(7-12) resources on something you feel to be wrong then

I'm a little biased against education classes, but I don't think this is fair. You and Arachne are both looking at this too black and white.

I won't answer for TheMathematician, but what I'm against is the current situation of completely unmoderated homeschooling. As it is, any ignoramus out there can keep their children out of school and teach them (for certain values of the word) whatever they imagine is necessary.

What I asked is whether a knowledge of child psychology and teaching methodologies is necessary to make one a successful teacher. If such knowledge is necessary, then a parent should acquire it and prove it before they are allowed to homeschool. If such knowledge is not necessary and anyone can do it, then training such educators is a waste all around.

That's authoritarian, though. Parents are also people and not everybody who has enough time and money to have kids is also going to have the money, time, or interest necessary to get an education degree.

This is not to mention all the different kinds of education degrees that there are. If they only have an Early Childhood Ed. degree, are we only going to let them educate their kids until middle school? What about parents with developmentally disabled kids? Do they need a degree in Special Ed just to have their kids live at home?

I could support a state test and license with interviews, references, and home inspection. Anything else goes too far.

Even issuing a state license with interviews, references, and home inspection could be draconian.

If the state were to inspect and issue licenses for all homeschooling cases, then parents might not pass as not every parent has the financial means to provide an individual bedroom for each child. In some families, there are three to four children sharing a bedroom using bunkbeds.

And then the parents might not have time to instruct their children if they have to spend time in higher education first getting their early childhood instructor's license, then their K-8 teaching credential, then their high school credentials.

An early childhood instructor's license takes at least two years full time at a community college.
The K-8 teaching credential takes another four years: two more years to get a B.A., then another two years for the credential.
The high school credentials would take at least one to two more years.
So the parents would need at least six to eight years of full time teacher's education to teach their children through high school.
Now calculate the expense: College aint cheap folks.

Let's say that the Community college would cost about $10,000 per year (including books, transportation, fees, and tuition).  Two years x 10,000 =  $20,000

University might cost $20,000 per year (including books, transportation, fees, and tuition)
Six years x 20,000 = $120,000

Total costs $140,000.

Now factor in the costs of child care during those college years at $400 to $800 per month or more with more children.
Who, but the royalty and upper class, can afford to homeschool their children?

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #86 on: March 07, 2015, 02:22:48 PM »
That's authoritarian, though. Parents are also people and not everybody who has enough time and money to have kids is also going to have the money, time, or interest necessary to get an education degree.

This is not to mention all the different kinds of education degrees that there are. If they only have an Early Childhood Ed. degree, are we only going to let them educate their kids until middle school? What about parents with developmentally disabled kids? Do they need a degree in Special Ed just to have their kids live at home?

I could support a state test and license with interviews, references, and home inspection. Anything else goes too far.

I'm not interested in hashing out a certification system for homeschoolers. I do want some proof that someone who presumes to teach is actually able to do so. So that old 'those who can't do, teach' chestnut is not proven right all over again.

Also, teaching education is not in itself any more wasteful than offering science degrees when people can just read books about it and educate themselves, do their own experiments, etc.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't accept treatment from someone without a medicine degree, no matter how many textbooks they had independently read.

(My husband is a science teacher. Even so, you wouldn't believe all the sciencey things he'd be barred from doing if he were not actively in the profession. The range of experiments you can do legally doesn't go very far beyond baking soda volcanoes without certification.)
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2015, 02:31:55 PM »
That's authoritarian, though. Parents are also people and not everybody who has enough time and money to have kids is also going to have the money, time, or interest necessary to get an education degree.

This is not to mention all the different kinds of education degrees that there are. If they only have an Early Childhood Ed. degree, are we only going to let them educate their kids until middle school? What about parents with developmentally disabled kids? Do they need a degree in Special Ed just to have their kids live at home?

I could support a state test and license with interviews, references, and home inspection. Anything else goes too far.

I'm not interested in hashing out a certification system for homeschoolers. I do want some proof that someone who presumes to teach is actually able to do so. So that old 'those who can't do, teach' chestnut is not proven right all over again.

And what sort of proof would you accept if not formal credentials?

Also, teaching education is not in itself any more wasteful than offering science degrees when people can just read books about it and educate themselves, do their own experiments, etc.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't accept treatment from someone without a medicine degree, no matter how many textbooks they had independently read.

(My husband is a science teacher. Even so, you wouldn't believe all the sciencey things he'd be barred from doing if he were not actively in the profession. The range of experiments you can do legally doesn't go very far beyond baking soda volcanoes without certification.)

Fair enough. Ok, same argument just with the humanities.

Offline Maria

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2015, 02:32:07 PM »
That's authoritarian, though. Parents are also people and not everybody who has enough time and money to have kids is also going to have the money, time, or interest necessary to get an education degree.

This is not to mention all the different kinds of education degrees that there are. If they only have an Early Childhood Ed. degree, are we only going to let them educate their kids until middle school? What about parents with developmentally disabled kids? Do they need a degree in Special Ed just to have their kids live at home?

I could support a state test and license with interviews, references, and home inspection. Anything else goes too far.

I'm not interested in hashing out a certification system for homeschoolers. I do want some proof that someone who presumes to teach is actually able to do so. So that old 'those who can't do, teach' chestnut is not proven right all over again.

Also, teaching education is not in itself any more wasteful than offering science degrees when people can just read books about it and educate themselves, do their own experiments, etc.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't accept treatment from someone without a medicine degree, no matter how many textbooks they had independently read.

(My husband is a science teacher. Even so, you wouldn't believe all the sciencey things he'd be barred from doing if he were not actively in the profession. The range of experiments you can do legally doesn't go very far beyond baking soda volcanoes without certification.)

While homeschooling my son through high school, I was taking community college courses during which time he was also attending the community college. Community college is available to youths starting at 12 years of age.

He took chemistry, biology, music theory, Spanish, computer science, art, English, history, political science, physics, calculus, etc. at the community college. Therefore, at 18 years old, he was able to graduate from community college with his AA in Spanish.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 02:33:41 PM by Maria »
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Offline wlee4048

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2015, 02:46:34 PM »
Hey JamesR,

I guess I am one of those "right winged" non Obama voting guys you talk so eloquently about.  Oh yeah, I was home schooled and also went to private school.  As someone that is looking at the Orthodox faith and very interested in learning more, I do wonder about this forum.  Oh, I am also one of those Baptist who hates the Coptics and think the martyrs are in hell, NOT!