Author Topic: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents  (Read 4006 times)

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Offline Robb

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Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« on: July 25, 2013, 06:27:12 PM »
http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/why-i-blame-homeschooling-not-just-my-parents-reflections-by-nicholas-ducote/

Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents: Reflections by Nicholas Ducote
 
Nicholas Ducote is a Community Coordinator for Homeschoolers Anonymous.
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2013, 07:29:45 PM »
The government should send out monitors to make sure the parents are within standardized protocol regulations.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 07:36:20 PM »
Is there a "Public School Anonymous"?  'Cuz there ought to be.
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 08:57:11 PM »
The government should send out monitors to make sure the parents are within standardized protocol regulations.

Not their business.

Is there a "Public School Anonymous"?  'Cuz there ought to be.

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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 09:10:36 PM »
Is there a "Public School Anonymous"?  'Cuz there ought to be.

As a former publik skool kid I tried to form this kinda group once. When I went down too citi hall though they gave me a bunch of paper works and said to me to sign my john hancock on the dotted line on all the forms. Well my name ain't John and the line was straight and not dotted so I was just confused and left without them papers. It was a good try though. really good. My hi skool teachers would have gave me an A for sure!

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 09:11:57 PM »
Cue yeshuaisiam in 3....2....1.....
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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 09:17:46 PM »
I'm really not getting what the author means by "abuse". If he was locked in the cellar or beaten with pvc piping, then I could understand being somewhat perturbed and possibly seeing homeschooling as being part of the problem. But if we're calling "Oh no, my parents held to weird ideas like the concept of 'courtship' and I had to sneak around to meet girls away from their gaze" I think the author is engaging in petulant whining.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 10:12:53 PM »
Quote
The Harris family and their beliefs about Biblical courtship
David Barton and Little Bear Wheeler’s revisionist history
Evangelical leaders that scared everyone about the evils of secular humanism
Michael and Debi Pearl’s harsh ideas on corporal punishment and misogynistic ideas of gender roles
Huge book sales populated mostly by Christian fundamentalist textbooks — advocating creationism, teaching math based around the Gospel message, or other “educational tools.”

Seems to summarize the author's complaints with homeschooling. Children can be exposed to all of that without being homeschooled.

And I find it amusing that the author's complain largely comes down to disagreeing with the kind of socialization received. Calling it "systemic indoctrination" because they disagree, regardless of the fact that any sort of upbringing that includes enculturation/socialization is "systemic indoctrination" - even the kind they agree with.

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 10:24:15 PM »
I think the difference is the isolation some of these kids are forced into and it is a form of abuse.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2013, 10:43:16 PM »
I think the difference is the isolation some of these kids are forced into and it is a form of abuse.

That may be the best way to put it. I have not read the article and while I am not going to romanticise about home school, which I never had, and I am sure some kids get a bad run, I would love too see the psychiatric results of a group of home school students and a group of public school students. Say 100 from each group--50 male, 50 female, same age. Because I am not trying to say home school is an absolute solution, but in terms of education public school is a brain washing scam. I'll have to read the results though.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2013, 10:58:23 PM »
First thing I get. Extremely neurotic. And like the common neurotic he blames others for his problems. I am not saying how his parents acted was not a factor, but there is a lot more to it than that. If he ever wants to overcome his neurosis he needs to look at his whole self, not just blaming others, but seeing where the root of the problem lies. I do not even think major outward problem is homoschoolig, but religious fundamentalism. That is the first principle. That is what moves the homeschooling towards his current mental state and hang ups. I am not saying there was not a problem with his childhood and his parents, but abuse is a strong word. Maybe his parents were a bit extreme and messed up themselves, but I think this is just the common wine of a manic depressive. Sorry.
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life." --Gebre Menfes Kidus

I once said to my father, when I was a boy, 'Dad we need a third political party.' He said to me, 'I'll settle for a second.' --Ralph Nader, America's Cato

Offline Father H

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 11:21:59 PM »
http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/why-i-blame-homeschooling-not-just-my-parents-reflections-by-nicholas-ducote/

Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents: Reflections by Nicholas Ducote
 
Nicholas Ducote is a Community Coordinator for Homeschoolers Anonymous.


 ::)

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 11:25:23 PM »
We could also name this thread, "Why I don't take responsibility for myself and take the cool route instead by blaming everything on my parents and my childhood environment."
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
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Offline Father H

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 11:33:40 PM »
We could also name this thread, "Why I don't take responsibility for myself and take the cool route instead by blaming everything on my parents and my childhood environment."

<insert thumbs-up emoticon>

Offline TheMathematician

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2013, 11:38:35 PM »
We could also name this thread, "Why I don't take responsibility for myself and take the cool route instead by blaming everything on my parents and my childhood environment."

<insert thumbs-up emoticon>
¡3

Offline Nephi

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2013, 11:59:16 PM »
We could also name this thread, "Why I don't take responsibility for myself and take the cool route instead by blaming everything on my parents and my childhood environment."

<insert thumbs-up emoticon>
¡3

Sorry, but I just see a winking cat face.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2013, 08:25:34 AM »
*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  I personally don't know anyone who thinks that.  We are all raised by parents who loved us, but made mistakes.  They were inexperienced at it just light any parent today is inexperienced at it.  We all try to figure it out as we go, but we are all fallible humans.  Moreover, our parents were raised with generational differences to us just like our kids will with us. I have no doubt that my kids will think when they grow up: "Man, my parents could have done things so much better.  I am doing to improve on their parenting style."  In fact, I hope that they do.  I hope they are better parents than I am. I grew up in a very fundamentalist non-denominational family and I look back now at some of the things that went on and just shake my head.  Even my parents recognize that some of the techniques used were not the best, but don't sit around and fantasize that your like would somehow be magically better if you had gotten to go to public school/private school/boarding school, etc.  Learn from your past and move forward.  Sitting around wallowing in self-pity is a waste of time.

*steps off soapbox*
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline Papist

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 01:12:43 PM »
*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  I personally don't know anyone who thinks that.  We are all raised by parents who loved us, but made mistakes.  They were inexperienced at it just light any parent today is inexperienced at it.  We all try to figure it out as we go, but we are all fallible humans.  Moreover, our parents were raised with generational differences to us just like our kids will with us. I have no doubt that my kids will think when they grow up: "Man, my parents could have done things so much better.  I am doing to improve on their parenting style."  In fact, I hope that they do.  I hope they are better parents than I am. I grew up in a very fundamentalist non-denominational family and I look back now at some of the things that went on and just shake my head.  Even my parents recognize that some of the techniques used were not the best, but don't sit around and fantasize that your like would somehow be magically better if you had gotten to go to public school/private school/boarding school, etc.  Learn from your past and move forward.  Sitting around wallowing in self-pity is a waste of time.

*steps off soapbox*
Very well stated!
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 01:29:31 PM »
*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"

*raises hand*

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2013, 01:37:37 PM »
*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"

*raises hand*



*pats Cyrillic's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  ;)
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
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Offline jah777

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2013, 02:42:04 PM »
http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/why-i-blame-homeschooling-not-just-my-parents-reflections-by-nicholas-ducote/

Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents: Reflections by Nicholas Ducote
 
Nicholas Ducote is a Community Coordinator for Homeschoolers Anonymous.


Robb, why did you post this?  I do not see how the article would be applicable or of interest to the Orthodox Christian audience, nor does the content of the post fit the title:

Quote

Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents: Reflections by Nicholas Ducote

Author edit, after posting, to clarify my call for more oversight:...

Homeschooling, as a method of instruction, is not intrinsically bad, dangerous, or damaging. I saw many children raised in homeschooling who were not abused by religious fundamentalism – even if they were Christians...

 ???

The poor child is confused because of his bizarre Protestant fundamentalist upbringing, homeschooling being just a part of that.  If he had the same bizarre fundamentalist upbringing but attended public school, I'm not sure if he would be much less damaged. 

I wish we could home school our children but we have four young children and my wife is not confident that she could handle it properly.  Perhaps we will when they are older.  We know a couple of Orthodox families who home school and their children are extremely well behaved and intelligent, not to mention that they attend weekday church services regularly and live a much more church-centered life.

I attended private school, then public, then was home schooled for the last year of high school.  My year being home schooled was the most productive and it really helped me prepare for college since I had to be much more self-motivated.  My parents were not Orthodox, though, and so I was not blessed to have a church-centered Orthodox home schooling experience. 

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2013, 02:51:11 PM »
*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"

*raises hand*



*pats Cyrillic's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  ;)

No offense towards Cyrillic....but, this was really funny!

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2013, 02:53:43 PM »
*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"

*raises hand*



*pats Cyrillic's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  ;)

No offense towards Cyrillic....but, this was really funny!


Cyrillic is a good chap, so I know he won't take offense to it.  8)
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2013, 03:15:57 PM »
I laughed at it as well. I would have been disappointed if TheTrisagion wouldn't have made that joke  :)
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2013, 03:25:13 PM »
Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  

I do.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2013, 03:28:05 PM »
Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  

I do.

*pats Cyrillic's Michal's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  ;)

I'm starting to feel like the old grandfather, here.
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2013, 03:36:40 PM »
Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  

I do.

*pats Cyrillic's Michal's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  ;)

I'm starting to feel like the old grandfather, here.

I do as well.

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2013, 03:46:55 PM »
Really?  How on earth was that a good time of anyone's life?  I liked playing sports, but other than that, it was just sitting in school all day, you have no money to do anything, you have to ask your parents permission to do stuff even if you do have some money, you have to deal with puberty and school cliques and stupid drama and grumpy teachers, and...and...and...

No way.  I like my life now.  College (or University at you Old World people call it) was a lot of fun, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to grade school.
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2013, 03:54:38 PM »
Really?  How on earth was that a good time of anyone's life?  I liked playing sports, but other than that, it was just sitting in school all day, you have no money to do anything, you have to ask your parents permission to do stuff even if you do have some money, you have to deal with puberty and school cliques and stupid drama and grumpy teachers, and...and...and...

No way.  I like my life now.  College (or University at you Old World people call it) was a lot of fun, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to grade school.

No responsibilities, no much learning, no work, no troubles... Only parties all the time.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2013, 04:00:43 PM »
Really?  How on earth was that a good time of anyone's life?  I liked playing sports, but other than that, it was just sitting in school all day, you have no money to do anything, you have to ask your parents permission to do stuff even if you do have some money, you have to deal with puberty and school cliques and stupid drama and grumpy teachers, and...and...and...

No way.  I like my life now.  College (or University at you Old World people call it) was a lot of fun, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to grade school.

No responsibilities, no much learning, no work, no troubles... Only parties all the time.
LOL, you and I had very different childhoods, apparently.  I had chores at home, I worked 20 hrs a week on top of going to school and I got in trouble more than a few times.  And very few parties.
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2013, 04:13:52 PM »
you have to deal with puberty

It wasn't/isn't so bad. I hardly notice(d) it.

school cliques

My friends are OK.

and stupid drama

Drama?

and grumpy teachers

Even (or, might I say, especially) the grumpy ones were usually enamoured with me.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 04:14:08 PM by Cyrillic »
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2013, 04:21:28 PM »
Really?  How on earth was that a good time of anyone's life?  I liked playing sports, but other than that, it was just sitting in school all day, you have no money to do anything, you have to ask your parents permission to do stuff even if you do have some money, you have to deal with puberty and school cliques and stupid drama and grumpy teachers, and...and...and...

No way.  I like my life now.  College (or University at you Old World people call it) was a lot of fun, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to grade school.

No responsibilities, no much learning, no work, no troubles... Only parties all the time.
LOL, you and I had very different childhoods, apparently.  I had chores at home, I worked 20 hrs a week on top of going to school and I got in trouble more than a few times.  And very few parties.

Chores at home? Yes. What's wrong with them? Or troublesome?

Offline JamesR

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2013, 04:25:40 PM »
Well I did all three during my lifetime: homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling. Each of them were good in some ways and bad in others. Personally, I think the very worst out of the three was private schooling, because it was just an indoctrination ground for Evangelical religious-right weirdos to teach us their theology, ignore sections in the science textbook, and try to force right-wing politics on us, going so far as to tell us to try to urge our parents to vote for McCain over Obama.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline genesisone

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2013, 04:46:11 PM »
Well I did all three during my lifetime: homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling. Each of them were good in some ways and bad in others. Personally, I think the very worst out of the three was private schooling, because it was just an indoctrination ground for Evangelical religious-right weirdos to teach us their theology, ignore sections in the science textbook, and try to force right-wing politics on us, going so far as to tell us to try to urge our parents to vote for McCain over Obama.
Serious question: is your position that private schooling is in general a bad idea, or are you at odds only with the ideology of the school you attended?

Offline JamesR

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2013, 04:49:59 PM »
Well I did all three during my lifetime: homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling. Each of them were good in some ways and bad in others. Personally, I think the very worst out of the three was private schooling, because it was just an indoctrination ground for Evangelical religious-right weirdos to teach us their theology, ignore sections in the science textbook, and try to force right-wing politics on us, going so far as to tell us to try to urge our parents to vote for McCain over Obama.
Serious question: is your position that private schooling is in general a bad idea, or are you at odds only with the ideology of the school you attended?

The former. Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2013, 05:16:03 PM »

The former. Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

How is that any different than public school??????

I've taught in public school for ten years, and I all see coming from the humanities departments is indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination. Some of the science teachers are just as bad, and even denigrate students for being Christians. At least with private schools, families can choose the indoctrination they desire.
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2013, 05:18:47 PM »

The former. Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

How is that any different than public school??????

I've taught in public school for ten years, and I all see coming from the humanities departments is indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination. Some of the science teachers are just as bad, and even denigrate students for being Christians. At least with private schools, families can choose the indoctrination they desire.

What are you doing? Walking into this thread and talking sense like that. Is that even allowed?
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2013, 05:23:29 PM »
I think kids turn out better when there are Catholic nuns with rulers around.

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2013, 05:24:47 PM »

The former. Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

How is that any different than public school??????

I've taught in public school for ten years, and I all see coming from the humanities departments is indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination. Some of the science teachers are just as bad, and even denigrate students for being Christians. At least with private schools, families can choose the indoctrination they desire.

What are you doing? Walking into this thread and talking sense like that. Is that even allowed?
Is outrage!  :D
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 05:25:00 PM by Papist »
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2013, 07:50:02 PM »
I hope I do not stir up the bees here, but I wonder if this guy is confused about his homosexuality. The reason I say so is the way he presents himself shows someone who is confused about their homosexuality. He may like girls, but he may be in the closet, too. And he may not really understand those feelings, but if he does understand them he may rush out of the closet and blame his parents for keeping his sexual feelings bottled up under religious indoctrination. It may not be that much, but I am betting he sees a shrink.

EDIT: Not that seeing a shrink makes a bad person. Actually, people with mental disorders would do well to get therapy rather than try to figure it out all on themsleves in the blogosphere. And pills just calm the problem. Good therapy gets to the root of the problem. I am still trying to understand my own self, to examine myself and my subconcious It is one reason I have considered being a therapist. The problem with most neurotics is first they, like most people as Jung says do not really know themselves, and two I would say most neurotics refuse to blame themselves for their own problem. Like the obsessive compulsive just thinks that is the way they are and will refuse to try to correct what makes them that way or admit that their is a fault in the way they see thinks. They may even say they are obsessive compulsive and have a certain pride about it, like it is a good thing, and makes them better than others, but you are hard pressed to find many that say it is wrong or make a real effort to overcome it.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 07:55:40 PM by wainscottbl »
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2013, 09:14:24 PM »
Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

Are you against private Orthodox schools too?  ???

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2013, 10:24:29 PM »
Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

Are you against private Orthodox schools too?  ???
I think they are run by nutty Straussians (the Great Books people). I mean the few here in the US. Plus private schools are just a hothouse of reactionarism, in general.

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2013, 10:41:38 PM »
Quote
The Harris family and their beliefs about Biblical courtship
David Barton and Little Bear Wheeler’s revisionist history
Evangelical leaders that scared everyone about the evils of secular humanism
Michael and Debi Pearl’s harsh ideas on corporal punishment and misogynistic ideas of gender roles
Huge book sales populated mostly by Christian fundamentalist textbooks — advocating creationism, teaching math based around the Gospel message, or other “educational tools.”

Seems to summarize the author's complaints with homeschooling. Children can be exposed to all of that without being homeschooled.
The unholy trinity of the Harris, Barton and Pearl materials in the wrong hands could be particularly toxic, regardless of homeschooling. For most it's just harmless kookiness, but I've known more than one family who took the Harris and Pearl ideologies to abusive extremes.

Of course, this guy seems to have deep-seated issues that go far beyond a few bad books.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 10:42:12 PM by Agabus »
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2013, 03:43:53 AM »
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me"
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2013, 03:46:43 AM »
(the Great Books people).

The what?
the great books curriculum is quite popular among a small segment of american conservatives. afaik it's of straussian inspiration. perhaps some philosophia perennis thrown in as well.

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2013, 03:55:44 AM »
(the Great Books people).

The what?
the great books curriculum is quite popular among a small segment of american conservatives. afaik it's of straussian inspiration. perhaps some philosophia perennis thrown in as well.

Why is that a bad thing?
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2013, 03:59:35 AM »
My Biology teacher was in favor of population control. also, she showed constantly a "REAL TIME NUMBER OF ALL TREES IN THE WORLD, WATCH AS THEY ALL FALL!!!!"

I made a nice graph, showing population rising when we got those new fangled farming equipment and the great migration to cities. anyway, she was very happy that I drew at the end of the graph a line going down. (lower population)


what does this have to do with the op? i don't know, its 3 AM
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2013, 11:34:56 PM »
Blah, the OP article is just the exception from the rule.

Then there are homeschoolers like this young lady, who has authored several books, is an excellent photographer, and runs a magazine that is more dedicated to Christianity, than many things I've read.
http://kingsbloomingrose.com/

Often people who decide to be worldly hold hostility towards their parents who protected them from worldly things.   Some are mad because their parents didn't let them go to parties and get drunk in high school.  Later they blame "religious fanaticism" of their parents for all their faults.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but almost every homeschooler that I know believes in the scriptures and holds true to "training their children up in the lord".   Most try to teach them to follow God's will.
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2013, 06:57:09 AM »
Most try to teach them to follow God's will.

What seems for them to be God's will.

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2013, 09:31:24 AM »
Most try to teach them to follow God's will.

What seems for them to be God's will.

Therein 'lies the rub' as Shakespeare noted.... How one discerns God's will is far from a unanimous thing among any culture's peoples.

Offline pensateomnia

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2013, 10:08:08 AM »
(the Great Books people).

The what?
the great books curriculum is quite popular among a small segment of american conservatives. afaik it's of straussian inspiration. perhaps some philosophia perennis thrown in as well.

Why is that a bad thing?

Most "Great Books" programs at the university level are not conservative at all. Straussian ideas would be considered fringe, except in one or two places, as would any kind of "conservatism."

The movement began in Europe in the mid 19th century and was popularized in the US by Charles Eliot at Harvard as a kind of democratic form of adult education: if you aren't one of the blue bloods who can come to Harvard, then read this pre-packed set of "Harvard Classics" and you will become an educated person.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2013, 12:13:25 PM »
Most try to teach them to follow God's will.

What seems for them to be God's will.

Yes, they take what God said literally, and accept it as his will.
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2013, 05:33:22 PM »
Hey, leave the Great Books alone. I know it is an American conservative reactionary thing, but its the best we can hope for in Amerika. I am a big fan of Great Books in the Most Serene Republic of the Godless Fremasonic Idiotic Libertarians.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2013, 05:38:51 PM »
Actually I think it can be said to be a general Anglo-American reactionary thing. Anglo-American religion and politics is messed up. If I was going to be a liberal, I would just be a communist because that is taking the Enlightenment ideals to their conclusion. Neo-conservatism and paleo-conservatism is just conservative liberalism of the 18th century. It is based on deism and secular humanism. It's a result, I am realising, of Western rationalism, but I am trying to avoid getting to emotional in my journey east. But one does begin to tire or Western legalaism and rationalism. It's such a deep issue, and not black and white. It's why I am not sure there is much hope in American politics. Everything is black and white, socialist vs capitalist, conservative vs liberal, constitution vs statism, liberatairn vs statist. The simple thing is to blame rationalism, though its not that simple.
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I once said to my father, when I was a boy, 'Dad we need a third political party.' He said to me, 'I'll settle for a second.' --Ralph Nader, America's Cato

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2013, 07:23:08 AM »
Well I did all three during my lifetime: homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling. Each of them were good in some ways and bad in others. Personally, I think the very worst out of the three was private schooling, because it was just an indoctrination ground for Evangelical religious-right weirdos to teach us their theology, ignore sections in the science textbook, and try to force right-wing politics on us, going so far as to tell us to try to urge our parents to vote for McCain over Obama.

Well, if you had gone to a good Episcopal school, you wouldn't have either of those problems....

Offline Keble

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2013, 07:34:18 AM »
Actually I think it can be said to be a general Anglo-American reactionary thing. Anglo-American religion and politics is messed up. If I was going to be a liberal, I would just be a communist because that is taking the Enlightenment ideals to their conclusion.

Hmmmm, didn't go to one of those Episcopal schools, I see.....

Quote
Neo-conservatism and paleo-conservatism is just conservative liberalism of the 18th century.

Better, maybe....

Quote
It is based on deism and secular humanism. It's a result, I am realising, of Western rationalism, but I am trying to avoid getting to emotional in my journey east.

...where all they've ever heard of is autocracy and subservience to the throne. Look, there are probably more subtle ways to look at the ostensibly conservative/liberal split in American politics; the fact that the supposedly hopelessly liberal president has a comprehensive spying program on everyone and that his only serious opposition seems to be a few cranky public affairs journals and a single loopy libertarian congresscritter shows that the conventional casting of the parties is, as usual, inaccurate. Meanwhile eastern irrationalism produces Putin and 1/5 of the PIIGS. You can snark about western rationalism all you want, but seeing as how every aspect of the medium which carries your snarking is a product of western rationalism, you really don't have a leg to stand on.

Offline john_mo

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2013, 06:36:19 AM »
I know several products of home-schooling from the US, Canada, Australia and England.  Every single one of them is socially awkward and to a substantial degree.  It has become predictable for me.

However, I have seen some good examples of children who have had mixed home-schooling.
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2013, 10:02:42 PM »
I've been in education for several years and have taught both in public and private schools and at jr. colleges. I have met precisely 1 homeschooled student I believed would have been better off in the public or private system. Every other homeschooler I've known has been well adjusted, mature, and possessed an education at graduation that was far superior to their publicly graduated classmates in many respects. They tracked a year to two ahead of their public peers in just about every academic discipline. Granted I may have been fortunate in the homeschoolers I've met, but for those that I did meet, it was definitely the better choice for them and their families…with that one exception.

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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2014, 09:01:46 AM »
I've been in education for several years and have taught both in public and private schools and at jr. colleges. I have met precisely 1 homeschooled student I believed would have been better off in the public or private system. Every other homeschooler I've known has been well adjusted, mature, and possessed an education at graduation that was far superior to their publicly graduated classmates in many respects. They tracked a year to two ahead of their public peers in just about every academic discipline. Granted I may have been fortunate in the homeschoolers I've met, but for those that I did meet, it was definitely the better choice for them and their families…with that one exception.

Interesting how we have opposite opinions based on our experiences. 

I really would like it if what you said is true, but at the moment, I fear that homeschooling bears some strange fruit.  I worked with a couple of Orthodox that were home schooled.  They were priest kids and everyone thought they were weird, including yours truly. 
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Re: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2014, 02:59:46 PM »
I've been in education for several years and have taught both in public and private schools and at jr. colleges. I have met precisely 1 homeschooled student I believed would have been better off in the public or private system. Every other homeschooler I've known has been well adjusted, mature, and possessed an education at graduation that was far superior to their publicly graduated classmates in many respects. They tracked a year to two ahead of their public peers in just about every academic discipline. Granted I may have been fortunate in the homeschoolers I've met, but for those that I did meet, it was definitely the better choice for them and their families…with that one exception.

Interesting how we have opposite opinions based on our experiences. 

I really would like it if what you said is true, but at the moment, I fear that homeschooling bears some strange fruit.  I worked with a couple of Orthodox that were home schooled.  They were priest kids and everyone thought they were weird, including yours truly. 

You thought the kids were weird so therefore all homeschooled kids are weird?  What kind of warped logic is that?

I am a teacher as well.  i've been in both the private and public systems.  Every year my students compete against homeschooled kids at the NeJCL convention.  The homeschooled kids always do very well.  During the social events, they are fine and mingle and socialize just like any other kid there.  So, since this is my experience, therefore, homeschooled kids are not weird.  My experience trumps yours.  Isn't that the thrust of your whole argument?
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