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Author Topic: Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents  (Read 3413 times) Average Rating: 0
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Robb
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« on: July 25, 2013, 06:27:12 PM »

http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/why-i-blame-homeschooling-not-just-my-parents-reflections-by-nicholas-ducote/

Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents: Reflections by Nicholas Ducote
 
Nicholas Ducote is a Community Coordinator for Homeschoolers Anonymous.
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2013, 07:29:45 PM »

The government should send out monitors to make sure the parents are within standardized protocol regulations.
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 07:36:20 PM »

Is there a "Public School Anonymous"?  'Cuz there ought to be.
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 08:57:11 PM »

The government should send out monitors to make sure the parents are within standardized protocol regulations.

Not their business.

Is there a "Public School Anonymous"?  'Cuz there ought to be.

+1
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 09:10:36 PM »

Is there a "Public School Anonymous"?  'Cuz there ought to be.

As a former publik skool kid I tried to form this kinda group once. When I went down too citi hall though they gave me a bunch of paper works and said to me to sign my john hancock on the dotted line on all the forms. Well my name ain't John and the line was straight and not dotted so I was just confused and left without them papers. It was a good try though. really good. My hi skool teachers would have gave me an A for sure!
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 09:11:57 PM »

Cue yeshuaisiam in 3....2....1.....
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 09:17:46 PM »

I'm really not getting what the author means by "abuse". If he was locked in the cellar or beaten with pvc piping, then I could understand being somewhat perturbed and possibly seeing homeschooling as being part of the problem. But if we're calling "Oh no, my parents held to weird ideas like the concept of 'courtship' and I had to sneak around to meet girls away from their gaze" I think the author is engaging in petulant whining.
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 10:12:53 PM »

Quote
The Harris family and their beliefs about Biblical courtship
David Barton and Little Bear Wheeler’s revisionist history
Evangelical leaders that scared everyone about the evils of secular humanism
Michael and Debi Pearl’s harsh ideas on corporal punishment and misogynistic ideas of gender roles
Huge book sales populated mostly by Christian fundamentalist textbooks — advocating creationism, teaching math based around the Gospel message, or other “educational tools.”

Seems to summarize the author's complaints with homeschooling. Children can be exposed to all of that without being homeschooled.

And I find it amusing that the author's complain largely comes down to disagreeing with the kind of socialization received. Calling it "systemic indoctrination" because they disagree, regardless of the fact that any sort of upbringing that includes enculturation/socialization is "systemic indoctrination" - even the kind they agree with.
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 10:24:15 PM »

I think the difference is the isolation some of these kids are forced into and it is a form of abuse.
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2013, 10:43:16 PM »

I think the difference is the isolation some of these kids are forced into and it is a form of abuse.

That may be the best way to put it. I have not read the article and while I am not going to romanticise about home school, which I never had, and I am sure some kids get a bad run, I would love too see the psychiatric results of a group of home school students and a group of public school students. Say 100 from each group--50 male, 50 female, same age. Because I am not trying to say home school is an absolute solution, but in terms of education public school is a brain washing scam. I'll have to read the results though.
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2013, 10:58:23 PM »

First thing I get. Extremely neurotic. And like the common neurotic he blames others for his problems. I am not saying how his parents acted was not a factor, but there is a lot more to it than that. If he ever wants to overcome his neurosis he needs to look at his whole self, not just blaming others, but seeing where the root of the problem lies. I do not even think major outward problem is homoschoolig, but religious fundamentalism. That is the first principle. That is what moves the homeschooling towards his current mental state and hang ups. I am not saying there was not a problem with his childhood and his parents, but abuse is a strong word. Maybe his parents were a bit extreme and messed up themselves, but I think this is just the common wine of a manic depressive. Sorry.
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Aristotle says in the Metaphysics that "in mathematics goodness does not exist." It is a rather great quote to show to any math teacher when they tell you how important math is. Give them a riddle: I am not tall, I am not short, nor big nor take up any space but simply am. I have no name but I am.
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 11:21:59 PM »

http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/why-i-blame-homeschooling-not-just-my-parents-reflections-by-nicholas-ducote/

Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents: Reflections by Nicholas Ducote
 
Nicholas Ducote is a Community Coordinator for Homeschoolers Anonymous.


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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 11:25:23 PM »

We could also name this thread, "Why I don't take responsibility for myself and take the cool route instead by blaming everything on my parents and my childhood environment."
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 11:33:40 PM »

We could also name this thread, "Why I don't take responsibility for myself and take the cool route instead by blaming everything on my parents and my childhood environment."

<insert thumbs-up emoticon>
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2013, 11:38:35 PM »

We could also name this thread, "Why I don't take responsibility for myself and take the cool route instead by blaming everything on my parents and my childhood environment."

<insert thumbs-up emoticon>
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« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2013, 11:59:16 PM »

We could also name this thread, "Why I don't take responsibility for myself and take the cool route instead by blaming everything on my parents and my childhood environment."

<insert thumbs-up emoticon>
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« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2013, 08:25:34 AM »

*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  I personally don't know anyone who thinks that.  We are all raised by parents who loved us, but made mistakes.  They were inexperienced at it just light any parent today is inexperienced at it.  We all try to figure it out as we go, but we are all fallible humans.  Moreover, our parents were raised with generational differences to us just like our kids will with us. I have no doubt that my kids will think when they grow up: "Man, my parents could have done things so much better.  I am doing to improve on their parenting style."  In fact, I hope that they do.  I hope they are better parents than I am. I grew up in a very fundamentalist non-denominational family and I look back now at some of the things that went on and just shake my head.  Even my parents recognize that some of the techniques used were not the best, but don't sit around and fantasize that your like would somehow be magically better if you had gotten to go to public school/private school/boarding school, etc.  Learn from your past and move forward.  Sitting around wallowing in self-pity is a waste of time.

*steps off soapbox*
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« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 01:12:43 PM »

*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  I personally don't know anyone who thinks that.  We are all raised by parents who loved us, but made mistakes.  They were inexperienced at it just light any parent today is inexperienced at it.  We all try to figure it out as we go, but we are all fallible humans.  Moreover, our parents were raised with generational differences to us just like our kids will with us. I have no doubt that my kids will think when they grow up: "Man, my parents could have done things so much better.  I am doing to improve on their parenting style."  In fact, I hope that they do.  I hope they are better parents than I am. I grew up in a very fundamentalist non-denominational family and I look back now at some of the things that went on and just shake my head.  Even my parents recognize that some of the techniques used were not the best, but don't sit around and fantasize that your like would somehow be magically better if you had gotten to go to public school/private school/boarding school, etc.  Learn from your past and move forward.  Sitting around wallowing in self-pity is a waste of time.

*steps off soapbox*
Very well stated!
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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 01:29:31 PM »

*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"

*raises hand*

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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2013, 01:37:37 PM »

*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"

*raises hand*



*pats Cyrillic's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  Wink
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« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2013, 02:42:04 PM »

http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/why-i-blame-homeschooling-not-just-my-parents-reflections-by-nicholas-ducote/

Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents: Reflections by Nicholas Ducote
 
Nicholas Ducote is a Community Coordinator for Homeschoolers Anonymous.


Robb, why did you post this?  I do not see how the article would be applicable or of interest to the Orthodox Christian audience, nor does the content of the post fit the title:

Quote

Why I Blame Homeschooling, Not Just My Parents: Reflections by Nicholas Ducote

Author edit, after posting, to clarify my call for more oversight:...

Homeschooling, as a method of instruction, is not intrinsically bad, dangerous, or damaging. I saw many children raised in homeschooling who were not abused by religious fundamentalism – even if they were Christians...

 Huh

The poor child is confused because of his bizarre Protestant fundamentalist upbringing, homeschooling being just a part of that.  If he had the same bizarre fundamentalist upbringing but attended public school, I'm not sure if he would be much less damaged. 

I wish we could home school our children but we have four young children and my wife is not confident that she could handle it properly.  Perhaps we will when they are older.  We know a couple of Orthodox families who home school and their children are extremely well behaved and intelligent, not to mention that they attend weekday church services regularly and live a much more church-centered life.

I attended private school, then public, then was home schooled for the last year of high school.  My year being home schooled was the most productive and it really helped me prepare for college since I had to be much more self-motivated.  My parents were not Orthodox, though, and so I was not blessed to have a church-centered Orthodox home schooling experience. 
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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2013, 02:51:11 PM »

*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"

*raises hand*



*pats Cyrillic's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  Wink

No offense towards Cyrillic....but, this was really funny!

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« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2013, 02:53:43 PM »

*steps up on soapbox*

Here is my personal view on education in the formative years.  Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"

*raises hand*



*pats Cyrillic's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  Wink

No offense towards Cyrillic....but, this was really funny!


Cyrillic is a good chap, so I know he won't take offense to it.  Cool
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« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2013, 03:15:57 PM »

I laughed at it as well. I would have been disappointed if TheTrisagion wouldn't have made that joke  Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2013, 03:25:13 PM »

Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  

I do.
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« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2013, 03:28:05 PM »

Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  

I do.

*pats Cyrillic's Michal's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  Wink

I'm starting to feel like the old grandfather, here.
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« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2013, 03:36:40 PM »

Does anyone here really look back at grade or high school and think: "Gee, those were the best days of my life!"  

I do.

*pats Cyrillic's Michal's head*

There, there.  Once you have other days in your life to compare them to, you will perhaps have a different opinion.  Wink

I'm starting to feel like the old grandfather, here.

I do as well.

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« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2013, 03:46:55 PM »

Really?  How on earth was that a good time of anyone's life?  I liked playing sports, but other than that, it was just sitting in school all day, you have no money to do anything, you have to ask your parents permission to do stuff even if you do have some money, you have to deal with puberty and school cliques and stupid drama and grumpy teachers, and...and...and...

No way.  I like my life now.  College (or University at you Old World people call it) was a lot of fun, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to grade school.
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« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2013, 03:54:38 PM »

Really?  How on earth was that a good time of anyone's life?  I liked playing sports, but other than that, it was just sitting in school all day, you have no money to do anything, you have to ask your parents permission to do stuff even if you do have some money, you have to deal with puberty and school cliques and stupid drama and grumpy teachers, and...and...and...

No way.  I like my life now.  College (or University at you Old World people call it) was a lot of fun, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to grade school.

No responsibilities, no much learning, no work, no troubles... Only parties all the time.
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« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2013, 04:00:43 PM »

Really?  How on earth was that a good time of anyone's life?  I liked playing sports, but other than that, it was just sitting in school all day, you have no money to do anything, you have to ask your parents permission to do stuff even if you do have some money, you have to deal with puberty and school cliques and stupid drama and grumpy teachers, and...and...and...

No way.  I like my life now.  College (or University at you Old World people call it) was a lot of fun, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to grade school.

No responsibilities, no much learning, no work, no troubles... Only parties all the time.
LOL, you and I had very different childhoods, apparently.  I had chores at home, I worked 20 hrs a week on top of going to school and I got in trouble more than a few times.  And very few parties.
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« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2013, 04:13:52 PM »

you have to deal with puberty

It wasn't/isn't so bad. I hardly notice(d) it.

school cliques

My friends are OK.

and stupid drama

Drama?

and grumpy teachers

Even (or, might I say, especially) the grumpy ones were usually enamoured with me.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 04:14:08 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2013, 04:21:28 PM »

Really?  How on earth was that a good time of anyone's life?  I liked playing sports, but other than that, it was just sitting in school all day, you have no money to do anything, you have to ask your parents permission to do stuff even if you do have some money, you have to deal with puberty and school cliques and stupid drama and grumpy teachers, and...and...and...

No way.  I like my life now.  College (or University at you Old World people call it) was a lot of fun, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to grade school.

No responsibilities, no much learning, no work, no troubles... Only parties all the time.
LOL, you and I had very different childhoods, apparently.  I had chores at home, I worked 20 hrs a week on top of going to school and I got in trouble more than a few times.  And very few parties.

Chores at home? Yes. What's wrong with them? Or troublesome?
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« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2013, 04:25:40 PM »

Well I did all three during my lifetime: homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling. Each of them were good in some ways and bad in others. Personally, I think the very worst out of the three was private schooling, because it was just an indoctrination ground for Evangelical religious-right weirdos to teach us their theology, ignore sections in the science textbook, and try to force right-wing politics on us, going so far as to tell us to try to urge our parents to vote for McCain over Obama.
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« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2013, 04:46:11 PM »

Well I did all three during my lifetime: homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling. Each of them were good in some ways and bad in others. Personally, I think the very worst out of the three was private schooling, because it was just an indoctrination ground for Evangelical religious-right weirdos to teach us their theology, ignore sections in the science textbook, and try to force right-wing politics on us, going so far as to tell us to try to urge our parents to vote for McCain over Obama.
Serious question: is your position that private schooling is in general a bad idea, or are you at odds only with the ideology of the school you attended?
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« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2013, 04:49:59 PM »

Well I did all three during my lifetime: homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling. Each of them were good in some ways and bad in others. Personally, I think the very worst out of the three was private schooling, because it was just an indoctrination ground for Evangelical religious-right weirdos to teach us their theology, ignore sections in the science textbook, and try to force right-wing politics on us, going so far as to tell us to try to urge our parents to vote for McCain over Obama.
Serious question: is your position that private schooling is in general a bad idea, or are you at odds only with the ideology of the school you attended?

The former. Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.
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« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2013, 05:16:03 PM »


The former. Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

How is that any different than public school?Huh??

I've taught in public school for ten years, and I all see coming from the humanities departments is indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination. Some of the science teachers are just as bad, and even denigrate students for being Christians. At least with private schools, families can choose the indoctrination they desire.
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« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2013, 05:18:47 PM »


The former. Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

How is that any different than public school?Huh??

I've taught in public school for ten years, and I all see coming from the humanities departments is indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination. Some of the science teachers are just as bad, and even denigrate students for being Christians. At least with private schools, families can choose the indoctrination they desire.

What are you doing? Walking into this thread and talking sense like that. Is that even allowed?
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« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2013, 05:23:29 PM »

I think kids turn out better when there are Catholic nuns with rulers around.
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« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2013, 05:24:47 PM »


The former. Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

How is that any different than public school?Huh??

I've taught in public school for ten years, and I all see coming from the humanities departments is indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination. Some of the science teachers are just as bad, and even denigrate students for being Christians. At least with private schools, families can choose the indoctrination they desire.

What are you doing? Walking into this thread and talking sense like that. Is that even allowed?
Is outrage!  Cheesy
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« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2013, 07:50:02 PM »

I hope I do not stir up the bees here, but I wonder if this guy is confused about his homosexuality. The reason I say so is the way he presents himself shows someone who is confused about their homosexuality. He may like girls, but he may be in the closet, too. And he may not really understand those feelings, but if he does understand them he may rush out of the closet and blame his parents for keeping his sexual feelings bottled up under religious indoctrination. It may not be that much, but I am betting he sees a shrink.

EDIT: Not that seeing a shrink makes a bad person. Actually, people with mental disorders would do well to get therapy rather than try to figure it out all on themsleves in the blogosphere. And pills just calm the problem. Good therapy gets to the root of the problem. I am still trying to understand my own self, to examine myself and my subconcious It is one reason I have considered being a therapist. The problem with most neurotics is first they, like most people as Jung says do not really know themselves, and two I would say most neurotics refuse to blame themselves for their own problem. Like the obsessive compulsive just thinks that is the way they are and will refuse to try to correct what makes them that way or admit that their is a fault in the way they see thinks. They may even say they are obsessive compulsive and have a certain pride about it, like it is a good thing, and makes them better than others, but you are hard pressed to find many that say it is wrong or make a real effort to overcome it.
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Aristotle says in the Metaphysics that "in mathematics goodness does not exist." It is a rather great quote to show to any math teacher when they tell you how important math is. Give them a riddle: I am not tall, I am not short, nor big nor take up any space but simply am. I have no name but I am.
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« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2013, 09:14:24 PM »

Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

Are you against private Orthodox schools too?  Huh
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« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2013, 10:24:29 PM »

Private Schooling is a horrible idea because the kids then become subjected to whatever ideology the school wants to indoctrinate them with, and they develop a superiority complex. When I went to Private School, they were always teaching us that public school kids are bad or evil or something, and that we should avoid "their environment." It promotes class warfare.

Are you against private Orthodox schools too?  Huh
I think they are run by nutty Straussians (the Great Books people). I mean the few here in the US. Plus private schools are just a hothouse of reactionarism, in general.
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« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2013, 10:41:38 PM »

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The Harris family and their beliefs about Biblical courtship
David Barton and Little Bear Wheeler’s revisionist history
Evangelical leaders that scared everyone about the evils of secular humanism
Michael and Debi Pearl’s harsh ideas on corporal punishment and misogynistic ideas of gender roles
Huge book sales populated mostly by Christian fundamentalist textbooks — advocating creationism, teaching math based around the Gospel message, or other “educational tools.”

Seems to summarize the author's complaints with homeschooling. Children can be exposed to all of that without being homeschooled.
The unholy trinity of the Harris, Barton and Pearl materials in the wrong hands could be particularly toxic, regardless of homeschooling. For most it's just harmless kookiness, but I've known more than one family who took the Harris and Pearl ideologies to abusive extremes.

Of course, this guy seems to have deep-seated issues that go far beyond a few bad books.
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« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2013, 03:43:53 AM »

(the Great Books people).

The what?
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« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2013, 03:46:43 AM »

the great books curriculum is quite popular among a small segment of american conservatives. afaik it's of straussian inspiration. perhaps some philosophia perennis thrown in as well.
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