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Author Topic: Preparing the Bread for Eucharist  (Read 389 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ezo
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« on: July 23, 2013, 04:39:12 PM »

Why Prosphora Must Be Pure: http://www.kiilehua.com/prosphora.htm

Wow, I wish this was in another thread because this is very interesting.   I agree with the link itself as MOST of it was traditionally how I've seen it done many many times.

The confusing part to me is when it says "5 pounds of general purpose flour".   I guess I've just learned it differently as I've always been told it can't ever be all purpose flour.   All purpose flour is bleached and bromated.

I could name names, but I am 100% positive there was a priest that used this for prosfora:
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/king-arthur-premium-100-whole-wheat-flour-5-lb

Other monks I knew ground their wheat.

Both of those would contain the entire wheat kernel including the bran.  ??

Anyway, trying to somehow redeem the thread back on topic (my fault sorry), there was a darker wheat prosfora used during lent communion during the presanctified liturgy.    During lent we communed 3 times (normally if in good standing/confessed etc.).   Twice during presanctified liturgy and once on Sunday divine liturgy.  Other times normally (in good standing/confessed etc.) once on Sunday.

I propose to continue here the discussion started there http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,52510.45/topicseen.html .
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2013, 06:03:37 PM »

I would use pure wheat bread, preferably organic, because GMO bread would be dangerous and not entirely within the spirit of the canons. Wouldn't people also be able to commune during the Saturday Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom during Lent?
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Ezo
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 11:48:21 AM »

I would use pure wheat bread, preferably organic, because GMO bread would be dangerous and not entirely within the spirit of the canons. Wouldn't people also be able to commune during the Saturday Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom during Lent?

What does "pure" mean for you? If you think that pure is the white part of wheat, you are wrong.

God made all the things good. Until ~ 200 years ago, there was no white bread because the corresponding mills were invented after not long ago. Therefore Christ and His Apostles communed from an integral bread.

It is scientifically proved that the best part of the wheat is the crust, the bran. Remove it and you'll loose 90% of grain's benefits for health and, in parallel, you will get in time diseases due to the big concentration of sugar and other unbalanced things.

Theologically speaking, the bread is used to become the Body of Christ - which is actually The_Church = All_of_Us -, so God uses it to gather us in one big harmonious unit. The white flour is only part of the perfect designed wheat, therefore it's inappropriate to use it for such an important purpose. We know who is called The Splitter, the one that from the beginning came into the world with lies, separating the humans. He also convinced us that it's good to separate the kernel from the peel, obtaining an inferior substance that the priest offers to God as being the Holy Gift in the end... As far as I know, we have to offer the best products for sacrifices, not the worst.

So which canons specified this practice and when do they date (originate)?
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2013, 11:58:43 AM »

Theologically speaking, the bread is used to become the Body of Christ - which is actually The_Church = All_of_Us -, so God uses it to gather us in one big harmonious unit. The white flour is only part of the perfect designed wheat, therefore it's inappropriate to use it for such an important purpose. We know who is called The Splitter, the one that from the beginning came into the world with lies, separating the humans. He also convinced us that it's good to separate the kernel from the peel, obtaining an inferior substance that the priest offers to God as being the Holy Gift in the end... As far as I know, we have to offer the best products for sacrifices, not the worst.

If a loaf of bread is not worthy of being offered at the altar for the Eucharist, the offerer (i.e., the bishop or the priest) will not offer it, will give directions on what is appropriate, will help locate the proper materials, etc., or he'll just do the whole thing himself (I've seen it).  They're not just going to offer anything.  Let the Church decide what's appropriate, not an improvised wheat theology. 
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Ezo
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2013, 12:53:52 PM »

If a loaf of bread is not worthy of being offered at the altar for the Eucharist, the offerer (i.e., the bishop or the priest) will not offer it, will give directions on what is appropriate, will help locate the proper materials, etc., or he'll just do the whole thing himself (I've seen it).  They're not just going to offer anything.  Let the Church decide what's appropriate, not an improvised wheat theology.  

The Church absorbed this practice of using white flour with the time, slowly, and now the priests do no even think that using only a part of the wheat is a serious mistake. It will be interesting if someone will start (maybe already done?) a documented study on this topic.

You know, many prayers and rituals were modified and sometimes removed from the Liturgy ritual. It simply happened. I don't know why and who decided these modifications, I have no idea if they were good or not.

So I won't believe that returning to the correct practice of offering to God what Jesus used 2000 years ago will happen sometimes in the future. But I had to say it, for my conscience.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 01:13:59 PM by Ezo » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2013, 03:59:51 PM »

The Church absorbed this practice of using white flour with the time, slowly, and now the priests do no even think that using only a part of the wheat is a serious mistake. It will be interesting if someone will start (maybe already done?) a documented study on this topic.
This has been discussed in other topics on this board. The idea that whole wheat flower was used for prosphora is false. White flour has been around since the start of Christianity, and was always used in the bread for making an offering since it was the finest flour.
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2013, 04:10:32 PM »

The Church absorbed this practice of using white flour with the time, slowly, and now the priests do no even think that using only a part of the wheat is a serious mistake. It will be interesting if someone will start (maybe already done?) a documented study on this topic.
This has been discussed in other topics on this board. The idea that whole wheat flower was used for prosphora is false. White flour has been around since the start of Christianity, and was always used in the bread for making an offering since it was the finest flour.

I wonder how they separated the white part 2000 years ago.

Any link for me/us ? I will do a search as well.

Thanks.
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2013, 04:13:00 PM »

http://www.thenibble.com/reviews/main/rice/whole-grains-cereals2.asp
Quote
Eventually, the Romans used linen to sift their flour; one Antiphanes writes about commercial baking with sifted flour about 350 B.C.E. However, the process of sifting, which required more time and materials than regular meal or flour, meant that sifted flour was expensive, and only the wealthy could afford bread made with it. As might be expected, this “refined,” sifted flour, which was of a lighter color than the darker bran, became a status symbol.

This is why King Arthur is the brand favored in America because their flour is unbleached, and follows the sifting method.
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Joseph
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2013, 04:44:57 PM »

Some interesting posts also here: Point at which Prosphora became "white"
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,22479.0.html
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