Author Topic: Harry Potter and Witchcraft  (Read 74389 times)

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Offline Agabus

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #675 on: September 27, 2014, 01:30:04 AM »
If your kid becomes a witch after reading Harry Potter, it's not because of the books. It's because you conceived them during Lent.
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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #676 on: September 27, 2014, 01:34:57 AM »
If your kid becomes a witch after reading Harry Potter, it's not because of the books. It's because you conceived them during Lent.

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Offline Incognito777

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #677 on: September 27, 2014, 04:07:35 AM »
Oh and by the way, engage the evidence and statistics. Don't engage in the old fallacy of trying to discredit the authors/messengers. The facts are the facts, and go unrefuted.

Offline Incognito777

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #678 on: September 27, 2014, 04:07:35 AM »
If anyone actually believes that Scripture does not condemn paganism, send me a private message with a link to your argument and we can debate. I don't have the time to sift through this thread to see what everyone is saying. I would encourage you to read "Witchcraft: Exploring the World of Wicca," by Hawkins, to see what the Bible teaches. Ancient Jews and early Christians had the highest regard for the Bible. Today many Christians practically trample it underfoot.

The book referenced above cites biblical lexicons, encyclopedias, concordances and biblical dictionaries. It represents the best scholarship we have on this topic.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #679 on: September 27, 2014, 04:11:25 AM »
Oh and by the way, engage the evidence and statistics. Don't engage in the old fallacy of trying to discredit the authors/messengers.
In some cases, it's NOT a fallacy.

The facts are the facts, and go unrefuted.
Not our job to refute your assertions of fact. It's your job to prove them, and from credible sources. So far you have failed to do that.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 04:15:09 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #680 on: September 27, 2014, 04:24:19 AM »
Is someone actually trying to convince us that Harry Potter promotes Witchcraft and Sorcery? Seriously? This is an Orthodox forum, not a Southern Baptist one- I expected a little more rational thought before slinging the Witchcraft accusations. First of all, Harry Potter is fiction- good wholesome, fiction in which a boy and his friends (who have had magical powers from birth, not through any kind of demonic sacrifices or what have you) battle the forces of an evil wizard who wants to murder people for not having pure magical blood, and defeat him. At most, if Harry Potter promotes anything, it's being against racism and genocide, not to mention is a classic good-vs-evil "the power of friendship and self-sacrifice will defeat evil" kind of fic. I mean, for goodness sakes, the main character quite literally sacrifices himself because it's the right thing to do and comes back to life shortly hereafter. How much more Christian themed can you ask from mainstream fiction??
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 04:25:05 AM by brastaseptim »
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Offline Georgii

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #681 on: September 27, 2014, 05:43:11 AM »
And if it hasn't been mentioned before, there is how Voldemort's magic no longer "sticks" on any of Harry's friends after Harry comes back from the dead.

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Offline JamesR

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #682 on: September 27, 2014, 05:50:10 AM »
We should only read the Holy Bible and the writings of the Holy Fathers.  We should not learn from the unbelievers and their literature.  They should learn from us and produce their own Holy Fathers and their own literature and then we will read it.

I'm not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic, but didn't many of the Fathers such as St. Justin the Philosopher say that we should interpret the pagan literature in a Christian way and redeem it through using it for Christianity, or something along those lines? I wonder if this would apply to Harry Potter, although I personally find the series to be boring although 10x better than a lot of other European literature people on here glorify.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #683 on: September 27, 2014, 05:56:24 AM »
I'd agree with some of the posters on here who say that this echo chamber somewhat resembles the Southern Baptists.

Maybe it's my bad history with Protestantism, but when I hear someone call out "paganism!" or "polytheism!" it really rubs me the wrong and worries me. Many Protestants have (and still do) use the term "pagan" to describe anything that they don't see fit for Christianity. Especially those radical Southern Baptist kinds.

I personally never got the "paganism!" thing. Why worry over something that for the most part is dead except for Asia and small tribes across Africa and South America? And why is "paganism" so much worse compared to anything else?

Heck, I'd rather my kid be "pagan" than Muslim or some other bad monotheistic faith like extremist Christianity. Monotheism doesn't automatically make you better or less ungodly. At this point, I got more respect for pagans than I do most monotheists.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 05:57:31 AM by JamesR »

Offline JamesR

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #684 on: September 27, 2014, 06:14:08 AM »
And on a somewhat unrelated note, I never quite got Harry Potter or found myself very interested in it, despite watching all of the films and reading two of the books. When I was a prepubescent little kid, I was reading violent, nihilistic sci-fi and horror books like Terminator, the Halo series, Van Helsing, I Am Legend, and pretty much every other story of the classic monster-slaying traditional horror or action-filled militaristic sci-fi book available. Harry Potter was boring to me except for that fat guy with the black beard because he reminded me of the local ice-cream truck man.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #685 on: September 27, 2014, 06:44:49 AM »
I wonder if this would apply to Harry Potter, although I personally find the series to be boring although 10x better than a lot of other European literature people on here glorify.

Harry Potter is European literature.

Is Harry Potter literature, though?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 06:45:21 AM by Cyrillic »

Offline JamesR

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #686 on: September 27, 2014, 06:57:36 AM »
I wonder if this would apply to Harry Potter, although I personally find the series to be boring although 10x better than a lot of other European literature people on here glorify.

Harry Potter is European literature.

Is Harry Potter literature, though?

In the hearts of all its fans, I suppose so :)

I'd rather read Harry Potter than an English version of the Odyssey. Beowulf though is one of my all time favorites for that violence and alliteration.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #687 on: September 27, 2014, 07:16:16 AM »
Oh and by the way, engage the evidence and statistics. Don't engage in the old fallacy of trying to discredit the authors/messengers. The facts are the facts, and go unrefuted.

Don't engage in the new fallacy* of complaining that people are engaging in the old fallacy of ad hominem because of some supposed inability or unwillingness to deal with evidence. The ideas and arguments you brought up have already been discussed 27 times, in this thread alone. Not every time someone says 'x will lead to y will lead to z,' is it a slippery slope fallacy; not every time someone says 'it is either a or b and nothing else,' is it a false dichotomy fallacy; not every time someone is presented with two evidences and remember the one that they happen to agree with, is it confirmation bias; and so on and so on. And... not everyone time that someone is poked fun at is it an ad hominem. Sometimes people are just poke-worthy, and sometimes it's just more fun, and sometimes the conversation has gone round and round so many times on a thread and there's not much left to argue on an evidential level.


*And yes, I do think what you are doing is actually a logical fallacy; I'm not just trying to be clever by using that term to mirror your own post.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #688 on: September 27, 2014, 07:34:19 AM »
...the reason behind St Gregory Nazienzen's adolescent outburst at his dad being totally unfair by making him a presbyter {God, that guy's such a jerk, really, I wanna be a monk}- at the age of 33{!}...

Not dealing with your larger point, but just this quoted part in particular (since I think St. Gregory is the bees knees and should be discussed as much as possible), I think one of the main reasons, or perhaps the main reason, St. Gregory reacted so negatively to that had more to do with feeling like his father was running his life and that he had no freedom (a view which, if I remember correctly, Fr. John McGuckin took some time talking about in his biography of the saint), and that St. Gregory's whole life, not just the early-to-mid part of it, can be seen in this light.* This goes for everything from the way he distorted the reality of his relationship with St. Basil in his funeral oration for him (and leading scholars/writers for centuries into all sorts of misunderstandings); to his trying to manipulate the Fathers of the Second Ecumenical Council by threatening to resign (he expected them to say "No! No! Not the great Gregory! We will be in ruins! Rather, we will submit! What do you want us to do!? We will do anything you ask!"); to his going back to his estate for the last decade of his life, to reside in mostly solitude, with the main interruption coming from interactions with his slaves, rather than having to deal with clergy and other people who robbed him of his freedom to study and read and such, and so that he could write bitter polemical poetry against anyone who had hurt him; and so on.

*That is, rebelling against anything and anyone who seem to be controlling him or his life or his ideas.
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #689 on: September 27, 2014, 07:45:41 AM »
Never fear, those of you who hate Harry Potter!  The books are being re-written to remove magic and add Christianity.

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/mom-rewriting-harry-potter-replace-witchcraft-christianity-221000371.html
 The writing has a bad case of "verbed adverbily", which is to say that no one actually just *says* something or replies. It's bad and grating.  Someone should give the person putting out this mess a copy of "The Elements of Style".


I'm sorry, it's been a while since I suffered my way through the first few books of the series - but couldn't the same thing be said of Rowling's originals?

 :angel:

Not like the "fanfic" which, thinking on it is a misnomer since the person putting out the parody is certainly not a "fan" of the works.  I checked the first few pages of "Sorcerer's Stone" and there is nothing like the "verbed adverbiliy" in the "sanitized" version.   
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #690 on: September 27, 2014, 07:55:45 AM »
From the pen of John Granger, who is E.O.

 Looking for God in Harry Potter  http://smile.amazon.com/Looking-Harry-Potter-John-Granger/dp/1414306342/ref=la_B001JRXOVK_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411818434&sr=1-5

which is the updated version of:
The Hidden Key to Harry Potter: Understanding the Meaning, Genius, and Popularity of Joanne Rowling's Harry Potter Novels http://smile.amazon.com/Hidden-Key-Harry-Potter-Understanding/dp/0972322108/ref=la_B001JRXOVK_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411818719&sr=1-7

There are others but here are two.  He "... first became interested in Harry Potter when his daughter was given a copy of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. He read the book with the intention of pointing out to his daughter what was wrong with it but instead was impressed by the Christian imagery, classical references, and 'acerbic criticism of muggledom"   from the Wiki article about Mr. Granger   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Granger

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Offline BrethrenBoy

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #691 on: September 27, 2014, 09:32:00 AM »
If Harry Potter is pagan, then Superman is the Anti-Christ.
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Offline biro

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Re: Harry Potter and Witchcraft
« Reply #692 on: September 27, 2014, 02:13:10 PM »
If Harry Potter is pagan, then Superman is the Anti-Christ.
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/46949

Of course.  :D
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