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Author Topic: Harry Potter and Witchcraft  (Read 25606 times) Average Rating: 0
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Arachne
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« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2013, 03:29:08 AM »

I personally would ban all Christians from having bumper stickers claiming their faith. No one drives perfectly all the time. A person on the fence regarding Christianity that is cut off in traffic by someone with a Christian bumper sticker might decide on the spot to be Scientologist Cheesy

Only acceptable bumper sticker:



 Cheesy
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« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2013, 03:29:16 AM »

I thought Harry Potter wasn't that popular anymore.  I thought that kids are now into Diary of a Wimpy Kid and those vampire Twilight books.
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« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2013, 03:29:36 AM »

And again, I would bet about $5 that people are thinking satanism=witchcraft=wicca. That simply isn't the case. Wicca and witchcraft are more akin to buddism than satanism. And even Satanism is more akin to secular humanism. Neither are particularly interesting/compelling.
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« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2013, 03:30:04 AM »


Statistics and facts can be made to lie.

Sure, but where is the proof the statistics I gave are lies?
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« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2013, 03:30:52 AM »

The question I asked of him was not asked of you, so it's none of your business.

To be fair, Peter, on this forum people very often respond to questions that are asked of other posters, and people very often defend the positions of other posters.  Telling Gebre it's none of his business just makes it seem like you are trying to curtail the discussion, or at the very least exclude Gebre from it.
In this particular case, Salpy, it's none of his business. It's also irrelevant to the discussion.
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« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2013, 03:31:15 AM »

Harry Potter promotes friendship, loyalty, hard work and taking responsibility for one's actions. Plus, it made 12-year-olds read through 800-page books. That's good enough for me.

Excuse me, the fact that children are joining witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter doesn't bother you? You have got to be kidding me. The fact it promotes witchcraft and magic doesn't bother you? The story also promotes lying.

I've never met any kid who got into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter. I'm not in the least bothered by magic in literature. It usually makes for very interesting reading.
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« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2013, 03:31:30 AM »

Wicca and witchcraft are more akin to buddism than satanism.

I disagree. Satan is the source behind witchcraft and wicca.
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« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2013, 03:32:25 AM »


Statistics and facts can be made to lie.

Sure, but where is the proof the statistics I gave are lies?
Where is the proof that they're true, as you claim? You made the claims; therefore, it's your burden to prove them. I'm not claiming that they're lies, so I have nothing to prove.
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« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2013, 03:32:52 AM »



Harry Potter promotes friendship, loyalty, hard work and taking responsibility for one's actions. Plus, it made 12-year-olds read through 800-page books. That's good enough for me.

Excuse me, the fact that children are joining witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter doesn't bother you? You have got to be kidding me. The fact it promotes witchcraft and magic doesn't bother you? The story also promotes lying.

Again, interest does not equal practicing witchcraft. I am interested in researching Nazi propaganda, I am not interested in being a Nazi. And those that lie in the HP series don't exactly come to a good end Wink
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« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2013, 03:33:51 AM »



I've never met any kid who got into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter. I'm not in the least bothered by magic in literature. It usually makes for very interesting reading.

That you have not met a kid who got into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter, does absolutely nothing to refute the statistical facts provided herein that they ARE getting into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter. You are not the center of the universe. The experts and facts disprove you.
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« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2013, 03:34:06 AM »

Wicca and witchcraft are more akin to buddism than satanism.

I disagree. Satan is the source behind witchcraft and wicca.

Spoken like someone that has never actually been involved in any of them. I have. I know what I am talking about. Do you know what you are talking about outside of reading the thoughts of others?
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« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2013, 03:34:41 AM »



I've never met any kid who got into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter. I'm not in the least bothered by magic in literature. It usually makes for very interesting reading.

That you have not met a kid who got into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter, does absolutely nothing to refute the statistical facts provided herein that they ARE getting into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter. You are not the center of the universe. The experts and facts disprove you.

Again, interest does not equal practice.
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« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2013, 03:35:30 AM »


Where is the proof that they're true, as you claim? You made the claims; therefore, it's your burden to prove them. I'm not claiming that they're lies, so I have nothing to prove.

Where is the proof that they are not true? You asserted without any evidence whatsoever that they may not be true. I cited a source. You cited nothing.
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« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2013, 03:36:45 AM »



I've never met any kid who got into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter. I'm not in the least bothered by magic in literature. It usually makes for very interesting reading.

That you have not met a kid who got into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter, does absolutely nothing to refute the statistical facts provided herein that they ARE getting into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter. You are not the center of the universe. The experts and facts disprove you.
The only "experts" and "facts" you have cited come from one single video. Why should we believe that? A video can be made to "prove" any agenda the creator of that video wants to push. "I saw it on youtube, so it must be true!" Roll Eyes
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« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2013, 03:37:06 AM »

You are misquoting your source to back up your argument. The source you are using speaks of interest in witchcraft. It doesn't speak of practicing witchcraft. For all we know, those children were interested because they knew someone that was already practicing witchcraft.
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« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2013, 03:37:23 AM »


Where is the proof that they're true, as you claim? You made the claims; therefore, it's your burden to prove them. I'm not claiming that they're lies, so I have nothing to prove.

Where is the proof that they are not true? You asserted without any evidence whatsoever that they may not be true.
I did no such thing.
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« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2013, 03:38:17 AM »

I've read the series. If you decide that it promotes witchcraft and wizardry, you would have to say that The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, as well as the Lord of the Rings series does too.

I can't believe the mentality of the some of the people commenting. There is NO evidence that anyone ever got interested in witchcraft from Lewis' books. Lewis' books do not promote and encourage the occult. Potter does, as the statistics prove.
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« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2013, 03:39:04 AM »

Hell's Bell's anyone?
http://www.christiancinema.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2115

Now there is a really poorly done video on the evils of rock music...
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« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2013, 03:40:04 AM »

I've read the series. If you decide that it promotes witchcraft and wizardry, you would have to say that The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, as well as the Lord of the Rings series does too.

I can't believe the mentality of the some of the people commenting. There is NO evidence that anyone ever got interested in witchcraft from Lewis' books. Lewis' books do not promote and encourage the occult. Potter does, as the statistics prove.


Read the series again without thinking of the Christian message you know is there. You will find that it doesn't necessarily make magic look all that bad.

And how would we know that no one was interested in witchcraft from the series without a study like you reference in the OP?
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« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2013, 03:40:12 AM »


The only "experts" and "facts" you have cited come from one single video. Why should we believe that? A video can be made to "prove" any agenda the creator of that video wants to push. "I saw it on youtube, so it must be true!" Roll Eyes

Why wouldn't you believe it? Go ahead and make your case. Refute the information in the video? The researchers prove you wrong. You can assert anything you like. Back it up.
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« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2013, 03:40:30 AM »

I've read the series. If you decide that it promotes witchcraft and wizardry, you would have to say that The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, as well as the Lord of the Rings series does too.

I can't believe the mentality of the some of the people commenting. There is NO evidence that anyone ever got interested in witchcraft from Lewis' books. Lewis' books do not promote and encourage the occult. Potter does, as the statistics prove.
Can you post a link to the video you cite as evidence?
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« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2013, 03:43:17 AM »

I would really encourage anyone that wants to bash on the series to read at least one of the books. I assumed it was evil and wanted to see what all the hype was about. My daughter was begging to read the books. I didn't want to regurgitate the opinions of others on it, so I read it myself. I quite honestly assumed I would find all my own reasons to believe it was evil and inappropriate. I found it to be an amusing story, and read the entire series.
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« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2013, 03:44:08 AM »


The only "experts" and "facts" you have cited come from one single video. Why should we believe that? A video can be made to "prove" any agenda the creator of that video wants to push. "I saw it on youtube, so it must be true!" Roll Eyes

Why wouldn't you believe it? Go ahead and make your case. Refute the information in the video? The researchers prove you wrong. You can assert anything you like. Back it up.
I've asserted nothing on this thread except a generally accepted observation that statistics and facts can be made to lie, and I did that only to cast reasonable doubt on your assertions that the statistics and facts prove your case. I therefore bear no burden to prove that which you attribute (wrongly) to me. You have made the only specific positive truth claims I see in my debate with you. Therefore, you and only you bear any burden to prove anything.

BTW, Incognito, if you really want to prove anything, you need to cite many more authorities than just one single video whose authority itself we cannot verify.
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« Reply #68 on: July 23, 2013, 03:44:38 AM »

What is being asserted is that there's no way you can really know that Harry Potter promotes witchcraft or sorcery if you've never read the books.

Did you even read my first post? You have got to be kidding me. Deal with the researchers.
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« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2013, 03:45:22 AM »

I also read the Hunger Game series before I allowed my daughter to read it. It brought up a great discussion on violence and PTSD. She learned a great deal. One of the primary things she learned is that nothing should be read with your brain switched off.
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« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2013, 03:45:43 AM »

I've never met any kid who got into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter. I'm not in the least bothered by magic in literature. It usually makes for very interesting reading.

That you have not met a kid who got into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter, does absolutely nothing to refute the statistical facts provided herein that they ARE getting into witchcraft as a direct result of Harry Potter. You are not the center of the universe. The experts and facts disprove you.

Myself and my family are the centre of my universe. Other people's kids have their own parents to teach them truth from fiction.

I know plenty of real neopagans, have been knocking about in the community for a couple of decades, since the time HP was everywhere. None of them got into paganism through it. The magic in it is very obviously made up (not to mention that it is made to be a hereditary thing - you are either born a wizard or not, you can't become one).

You want a bit of pop culture that really has got people into witchcraft? Here you go: The Craft
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« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2013, 03:46:43 AM »

What is being asserted is that there's no way you can really know that Harry Potter promotes witchcraft or sorcery if you've never read the books.

Did you even read my first post?
Yes.

You have got to be kidding me.
No.

Deal with the researchers.
How can I?
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« Reply #72 on: July 23, 2013, 03:47:03 AM »

Peter, obviously you know little or nothing about logic. You asserted that statistics can be made to lie, implying that the statistics I gave are open to question. But since you made this assertion, the burden of proof is on you. Cite me a source proving anything contrary to the source I gave. You have given nothing, only assertion.
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« Reply #73 on: July 23, 2013, 03:48:27 AM »

In all truth, Star Trek is more damaging than Harry Potter. It is a great "witness" to secular humanism.

There is no proof it is MORE damaging, only that it is dangerous.

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« Reply #74 on: July 23, 2013, 03:48:45 AM »

Incognito- You still haven't dealt with the point I have made numerous times.

INTEREST DOES NOT EQUAL PRACTICE
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« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2013, 03:49:30 AM »


In all truth, Star Trek is more damaging than Harry Potter. It is a great "witness" to secular humanism.

There is no proof it is MORE damaging, only that it is damaging


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« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2013, 03:49:54 AM »

In all truth, Star Trek is more damaging than Harry Potter. It is a great "witness" to secular humanism.

There is no proof it is MORE dangerous, only that it is dangerous.

It would be more dangerous by virtue of the fact that the creator is open about the fact that he made it partly as propaganda. HP was not made to be anything other than amusing.
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« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2013, 03:51:07 AM »


It would be more dangerous by virtue of the fact that the creator is open about the fact that he made it partly as propaganda. HP was not made to be anything other than amusing.

Are you sure about that? How can you be so certain? Regardless, the results have been disastrous.
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« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2013, 03:53:08 AM »

The author was a struggling/starving single mother. She desired to earn a living by writing a book. She wasn't an active/practicing wiccan/witch looking to proselytize. In fact, the author believes there are Christian themes in the series!
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1572107/jk-rowling-talks-about-christian-imagery.jhtml
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« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2013, 03:53:34 AM »

Peter, obviously you know little or nothing about logic. You asserted that statistics can be made to lie, implying that the statistics I gave are open to question.
Yes, that's a legitimate logical rebuttal.

But since you made this assertion, the burden of proof is on you.
Sorry, Charlie. That's not the way logic works.

Cite me a source proving anything contrary to the source I gave.
I don't need to. All I need to do is give generally accepted reasons why the one source you gave can be reasonably doubted.
1. It's a youtube video. Anyone can post anything on youtube.
2. Facts and statistics can be misused, or even fabricated by anyone to prove any point.

You have given nothing, only assertion.
I haven't even given you that. I've only given you good reasons why you need to cite more sources than just one to prove your point.
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« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2013, 03:53:44 AM »

Gebre and Incognito, I grew up in the age of Harry Potter, and I can think of no one I know who either left Christianity or became interested in witchcraft as a result of the Harry Potter series.
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« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2013, 03:55:07 AM »

Gebre,

Some of the posters here lack spiritual discernment and cannot see the devil behind HP. They have become desensitized to evil because of the society and culture that they were born in. They simply lack spiritual discernment and some may lack critical thinking skills.



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« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2013, 03:55:19 AM »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/fictionreviews/3668658/J-K-Rowling-Christianity-inspired-Harry-Potter.html

Quote
The pope may have condemned the Harry Potter books, but J K Rowling has now revealed that Christianity has been one of her major inspirations.
Breaking her silence on the much-debated question as to whether religious themes permeate her books, Rowling confirmed that they echoed her personal struggle with faith.
Speaking in America this week, she was open about the Christian allegories in her latest book Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.
The author said that she had always deflected questions on the issue in the past to avoid disclosing the direction in which the books were heading.
"To me, the religious parallels have always been obvious," Rowling said. "But I never wanted to talk too openly about it because I thought it might show people who just wanted the story where we were going."
At the end of her latest and final installment in the series, there are specific references to Christianity and themes of life after death and resurrection.




However the author, who was brought up an Anglican and is now a member of the Church of Scotland, said she still wrestled with the concept of an afterlife.

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« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2013, 03:57:38 AM »

Gebre and Incognito, I grew up in the age of Harry Potter, and I can think of no one I know who either left Christianity or became interested in witchcraft as a result of the Harry Potter series.

Really? what about the statistics I gave? Did you see the first post? That you may not be aware of something occurring, does not prove it is not occurring. Are you even qualified to have an opinion? How many thousands of children have you interviewed?

 By the way, I have spoken to may witches and Wicca over the years. The vast majority of them are former Roman Catholics.
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« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2013, 03:58:56 AM »

Regardless, the results have been disastrous.

The main result in this society and culture has been a dramatic improvement in children's literacy. Hardly disastrous.
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« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2013, 03:59:47 AM »

Yes, many Wiccans are former Christians of various flavors. I would like to hear how many attribute their conversion to a fictional book series.
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« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2013, 04:00:10 AM »

I didn't know this thread was going to get so much attention. Here's another video about the dangerous of Harry Potter.

Harry Potter Witchcraft Repackaged

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQGU5nZpiUY
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« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2013, 04:01:21 AM »

I can play too!

Beware of Narnia:
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Tending Brigid's flame


« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2013, 04:01:42 AM »

I didn't know this thread was going to get so much attention. Here's another video about the dangerous of Harry Potter.

Harry Potter Witchcraft Repackaged

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQGU5nZpiUY

I'm not touching that source with a ten-foot bargepole!
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Incognito777
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« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2013, 04:02:46 AM »


The main result in this society and culture has been a dramatic improvement in children's literacy. Hardly disastrous.

What a stupid argument. Reading pornography would also enhance literacy, as would reading heretical literature. Your guilty of the pragmatic fallacy. That something works, does not mean it is good. Besides, cite your source that literacy has increased as a direct result of HP. Just because you make a claim, does not mean it's true. And there is no proof that literacy is the main result of reading HP anyway.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 04:05:03 AM by Incognito777 » Logged
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