Poll

Which Christian Emperor Had the Most Significant Positive Impact on the Church?

St. Constantine
19 (51.4%)
St. Theodosius
5 (13.5%)
St. Justinian
6 (16.2%)
Another Emperor
3 (8.1%)
They All Stunk!
4 (10.8%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: Which Christian Emperor Had the Most Significant Positive Impact on the Church?  (Read 2580 times)

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Offline Justin Kissel

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St. Constantine - Issued edict of toleration, provided several important secular advantages, called first ecumenical council, etc.

St. Theodosius - Established Nicene Orthodoxy as the official religion of the empire, called second ecumenical council, etc.

St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
"Form a brute squad then!" - Prince Humperdinck

"My... deterioration is proceeding apace." - General Martok

Offline JamesR

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Well Nero produced the most martyrs...
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Well Nero produced the most martyrs...

I would have guessed Diocletian...  and I said Christian Emperor...  8)
"Form a brute squad then!" - Prince Humperdinck

"My... deterioration is proceeding apace." - General Martok

Offline ialmisry

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St. Constantine: Emperors Theodosius and Justinian are impossible without him.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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No St Abgar?  No St Drtad? 

"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline ialmisry

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^Just kings, not emperors.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Oh phooey.  A rose by any other name...
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Justin Kissel

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Wouldn't it be cool if we used emperor instead of czar in American politics? Emperor of Science would get a lot more respect than science czar.
"Form a brute squad then!" - Prince Humperdinck

"My... deterioration is proceeding apace." - General Martok

Offline Justin Kissel

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No posts yet about how evil Emperor Constantine was. This is a good sign.
"Form a brute squad then!" - Prince Humperdinck

"My... deterioration is proceeding apace." - General Martok

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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No posts yet about how evil Emperor Constantine was.

He made it pagan!!!!!

Offline sheenj

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I would nominate, HIH Haile Selassie I, especially for his role in calling the Council of Addis Ababa in 1965.

Offline biro

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I voted for St. Justinian. There is some really beautiful music of his feast on the Church of Greece website. That's not why I voted for him, but it's true too. :)
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Offline Gamliel

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I also voted for Justinian for beginning to build (or rebuild) the Hagia Sophia.

Offline Cyrillic

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St. Constantine. He's definitely one of my favorite saints.
"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."
-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

Offline Ansgar

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I would nominate, HIH Haile Selassie I, especially for his role in calling the Council of Addis Ababa in 1965.

What was that council about?

Anyways, I really don't know which one to pick. They all did great things.
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Offline john_mo

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I would nominate, HIH Haile Selassie I, especially for his role in calling the Council of Addis Ababa in 1965.

He was so Byzantine. 
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton

Offline Justin Kissel

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I am somewhat let down that the wrong emperor is winning (and by a landslide), but alas, what can you do?
"Form a brute squad then!" - Prince Humperdinck

"My... deterioration is proceeding apace." - General Martok

Offline john_mo

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I've always been a bit more of a Justinian man myself.  St. Constantin's life seems a bit shady to me, and I'm not saying he was shady, just then our accounts of him are not very satisfying.  A lot of this is because of Zosimos, the pagan historian from whom we get most of our accounts of Constantin's life.  Zosimos was anti-Christian and was apparently trying to re-establish pagan beliefs.  He also lived centuries after Constantin's time.

Justinian was clearly Orthodox, and skillfully finished what Constantin started. 
 
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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I've always been a bit more of a Justinian man myself.  St. Constantin's life seems a bit shady to me...

LOL.  I get what you mean, but LOL.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Cyrillic

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Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*
"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."
-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

Offline john_mo

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Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*

Binged it, googled it.  Can't find any info on this in English.  Help a brotha out!
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

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Offline Cyrillic

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Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*

Binged it, googled it.  Can't find any info on this in English.  Help a brotha out!

Justinian died a disciple of the heretical Julian of Halicarnassus who taught aphtartodocetism. Here's a link. It's a bad one, but still.
"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."
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Offline mike

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Does Stalin count as Orthodox?

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Orthodox or not, he wasn't an emperor.  :P
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Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Justin Kissel

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Orthodox or not, he wasn't an emperor.  :P

Perhaps not officially, but "rare simpleton" is an anagram of "emperor stalin." Make of that what you will.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 11:13:30 PM by Asteriktos »
"Form a brute squad then!" - Prince Humperdinck

"My... deterioration is proceeding apace." - General Martok

Offline NicholasMyra

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St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline john_mo

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St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint.  In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity.  I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century.  She was the one who ended iconoclasm. 
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton

Offline Justin Kissel

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St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint.  In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity.  I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century.  She was the one who ended iconoclasm. 

But given her pre-imperial employment, I bet Justinian's Theodora was easier on the eyes. Perhaps that's what he was thinking of.
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Offline minasoliman

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St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint.  In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity.  I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century.  She was the one who ended iconoclasm. 

from http://oca.org/saints/lives/2013/11/14/103302-st-theodora-the-empress

Quote
St Theodora the Empress
Commemorated on November 14

Saint Theodora was the wife of St Justinian the emperor, and lived during the sixth century.

The Empress Theodora was at first a notorious harlot and actress, and an adherent of the Monophysite heresy, but then she repented. After becoming empress, she led a virtuous life, maintaining purity of both soul and body. She provided wise counsel for her husband during his reign, and she also saved his throne during the Nika riots of 532 through her political intelligence and expertise.

St Theodora died in 548.

So which Church do you go to that makes here "not a saint", because it seems to me the Orthodox Church celebrates her sainthood.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 11:00:13 AM by minasoliman »
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Offline john_mo

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St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint.  In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity.  I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century.  She was the one who ended iconoclasm. 


from http://oca.org/saints/lives/2013/11/14/103302-st-theodora-the-empress

Quote
St Theodora the Empress
Commemorated on November 14

Saint Theodora was the wife of St Justinian the emperor, and lived during the sixth century.

The Empress Theodora was at first a notorious harlot and actress, and an adherent of the Monophysite heresy, but then she repented. After becoming empress, she led a virtuous life, maintaining purity of both soul and body. She provided wise counsel for her husband during his reign, and she also saved his throne during the Nika riots of 532 through her political intelligence and expertise.

St Theodora died in 548.

So which Church do you go to that makes here "not a saint", because it seems to me the Orthodox Church celebrates her sainthood.

Well I'll be darned.  Thanks for this info.  The strange thing is that I actually tried to research whether or not she was a saint a few months ago, and I couldn't find any such information.  I was initially told by a fellow Orthodox that she wasn't a saint.  I googled her, and all that came up was for Theodora of Alexandria or the wife of Theophilos. I just took a gander at her wikipedia page, and while the one for St Justinian mentions him being a saint, there is no such info for Theodora.

My apologies for the misinformation.  I can only say that, for some reason, her sainthood doesn't seem to be well known.  At least from what I've seen.  Also, this is great!  Even before knowing this I always thought she was an amazing leader.
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Offline minasoliman

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My apologies for being snarky.  I thought it was well known that she was a saint by both EOs and OOs.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline john_mo

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My apologies for being snarky.  I thought it was well known that she was a saint by both EOs and OOs.

No need to apologize.  I am just so glad to hear that she is in fact a saint.  As I said, I was always a Theodora fan from a historical standpoint, so this news made my day.

I just find it sad how all I heard about her before was that she was non-Chalcedonian.
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

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Offline NicholasMyra

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St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint. 

There is Empress Theodora the wife of Justinian and Empress Theodora who convened the Seventh Ecumenical Council. Both are saints.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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I just find it sad how all I heard about her before was that she was non-Chalcedonian.
This was not well defined at their time. She was sympathetic to non-Chalcedonians, but so was St. Justinian in his attempts to reconcile the schism. She was more tolerant of the persons themselves from what I understand.
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
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Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline JamesR

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Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 07:32:24 PM by JamesR »
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline NicholasMyra

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Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?
No.
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
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Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline Santagranddad

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Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?

Groan, I don't believe my eyes.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?

Groan, I don't believe my eyes.

It's good not to be in communion with some people, isn't it?  :P
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*

A scholarly book I have on his life appears to disprove that allegation.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*

Binged it, googled it.  Can't find any info on this in English.  Help a brotha out!

Justinian died a disciple of the heretical Julian of Halicarnassus who taught aphtartodocetism. Here's a link. It's a bad one, but still.

And the Church gives as much credence to that as St. Constantine being an Arian. Next.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Shanghaiski

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St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint.  In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity.  I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century.  She was the one who ended iconoclasm. 

Can we stop slandering the saints now? St. Theodora is in the Synaxarion and her feast is celebrated with her husband. If you have a complaint, take it to the Church's complaints department. Due to heavy volume, there's a 1000 year backlog. Your complaint will be answered in the order it was received.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Shanghaiski

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My apologies for being snarky.  I thought it was well known that she was a saint by both EOs and OOs.

No need to apologize.  I am just so glad to hear that she is in fact a saint.  As I said, I was always a Theodora fan from a historical standpoint, so this news made my day.

I just find it sad how all I heard about her before was that she was non-Chalcedonian.

Sorry. I responded as I read through the tread and missed your later posts. Apologies.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?

Groan, I don't believe my eyes.

Santagranddad, meet JamesR.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Shanghaiski

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I just find it sad how all I heard about her before was that she was non-Chalcedonian.
This was not well defined at their time. She was sympathetic to non-Chalcedonians, but so was St. Justinian in his attempts to reconcile the schism. She was more tolerant of the persons themselves from what I understand.

St. Theodora the Empress is one of the few post-Chalcedonian saints to be venerated officially by the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.