Author Topic: Which Christian Emperor Had the Most Significant Positive Impact on the Church? (Read 6480 times)

Asteriktos · « **on:** July 18, 2013, 10:26:15 PM »

St. Constantine - Issued edict of toleration, provided several important secular advantages, called first ecumenical council, etc.

St. Theodosius - Established Nicene Orthodoxy as the official religion of the empire, called second ecumenical council, etc.

St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.

JamesR · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2013, 10:58:39 PM »

Well Nero produced the most martyrs...

Asteriktos · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2013, 11:02:51 PM »

Quote from: JamesR on July 18, 2013, 10:58:39 PM

Well Nero produced the most martyrs...

I would have guessed Diocletian... and I said Christian Emperor...

ialmisry · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2013, 11:17:38 PM »

St. Constantine: Emperors Theodosius and Justinian are impossible without him.

Mor Ephrem · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2013, 11:18:05 PM »

No St Abgar? No St Drtad?

ialmisry · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2013, 11:36:54 PM »

^Just kings, not emperors.

Mor Ephrem · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2013, 11:42:59 PM »

Oh phooey. A rose by any other name...

Asteriktos · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2013, 01:04:54 AM »

Wouldn't it be cool if we used emperor instead of czar in American politics? Emperor of Science would get a lot more respect than science czar.

Asteriktos · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2013, 11:18:53 AM »

No posts yet about how evil Emperor Constantine was. This is a good sign.

Alveus Lacuna · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2013, 11:22:18 AM »

Quote from: Asteriktos on July 19, 2013, 11:18:53 AM

No posts yet about how evil Emperor Constantine was.

He made it pagan!!!!!

sheenj · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2013, 11:37:22 AM »

I would nominate, HIH Haile Selassie I, especially for his role in calling the Council of Addis Ababa in 1965.

biro · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2013, 01:01:10 PM »

I voted for St. Justinian. There is some really beautiful music of his feast on the Church of Greece website. That's not why I voted for him, but it's true too.

Luke · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2013, 01:07:06 PM »

I also voted for Justinian for beginning to build (or rebuild) the Hagia Sophia.

Cyrillic · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2013, 01:21:09 PM »

St. Constantine. He's definitely one of my favorite saints.

Ansgar · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2013, 01:29:03 PM »

Quote from: sheenj on July 19, 2013, 11:37:22 AM

I would nominate, HIH Haile Selassie I, especially for his role in calling the Council of Addis Ababa in 1965.

What was that council about?

Anyways, I really don't know which one to pick. They all did great things.

john_mo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2013, 07:18:32 AM »

Quote from: sheenj on July 19, 2013, 11:37:22 AM

I would nominate, HIH Haile Selassie I, especially for his role in calling the Council of Addis Ababa in 1965.

He was so Byzantine.

Asteriktos · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2013, 07:25:19 AM »

I am somewhat let down that the wrong emperor is winning (and by a landslide), but alas, what can you do?

john_mo · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2013, 07:39:41 AM »

I've always been a bit more of a Justinian man myself. St. Constantin's life seems a bit shady to me, and I'm not saying he was shady, just then our accounts of him are not very satisfying. A lot of this is because of Zosimos, the pagan historian from whom we get most of our accounts of Constantin's life. Zosimos was anti-Christian and was apparently trying to re-establish pagan beliefs. He also lived centuries after Constantin's time.

Justinian was clearly Orthodox, and skillfully finished what Constantin started.

Mor Ephrem · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2013, 12:26:09 PM »

Quote from: john_mo on July 20, 2013, 07:39:41 AM

I've always been a bit more of a Justinian man myself. St. Constantin's life seems a bit shady to me...

LOL. I get what you mean, but LOL.

Cyrillic · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2013, 01:04:03 PM »

Quote from: john_mo on July 20, 2013, 07:39:41 AM

Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*

john_mo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2013, 01:07:58 PM »

Quote from: Cyrillic on July 20, 2013, 01:04:03 PM

Quote from: john_mo on July 20, 2013, 07:39:41 AM
Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*

Binged it, googled it. Can't find any info on this in English. Help a brotha out!

Cyrillic · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2013, 01:17:07 PM »

Quote from: john_mo on July 20, 2013, 01:07:58 PM

Quote from: Cyrillic on July 20, 2013, 01:04:03 PM
Quote from: john_mo on July 20, 2013, 07:39:41 AM
Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*

Binged it, googled it. Can't find any info on this in English. Help a brotha out!

Justinian died a disciple of the heretical Julian of Halicarnassus who taught aphtartodocetism. Here's a link. It's a bad one, but still.

mike · « **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2013, 05:26:48 PM »

Does Stalin count as Orthodox?

Mor Ephrem · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2013, 07:40:07 PM »

Orthodox or not, he wasn't an emperor.

Asteriktos · « **Reply #24 on:** July 21, 2013, 11:11:32 PM »

Quote from: Mor Ephrem on July 21, 2013, 07:40:07 PM

Orthodox or not, he wasn't an emperor.

Perhaps not officially, but "rare simpleton" is an anagram of "emperor stalin." Make of that what you will.

NicholasMyra · « **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2013, 11:16:33 PM »

Quote from: Asteriktos on July 18, 2013, 10:26:15 PM

St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.

+ Married St. Theodora

john_mo · « **Reply #26 on:** July 22, 2013, 10:05:26 AM »

Quote from: NicholasMyra on July 21, 2013, 11:16:33 PM

Quote from: Asteriktos on July 18, 2013, 10:26:15 PM
St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint. In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity. I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century. She was the one who ended iconoclasm.

Asteriktos · « **Reply #27 on:** July 22, 2013, 10:18:09 AM »

Quote from: john_mo on July 22, 2013, 10:05:26 AM

Quote from: NicholasMyra on July 21, 2013, 11:16:33 PM
Quote from: Asteriktos on July 18, 2013, 10:26:15 PM
St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint. In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity. I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century. She was the one who ended iconoclasm.

But given her pre-imperial employment, I bet Justinian's Theodora was easier on the eyes. Perhaps that's what he was thinking of.

minasoliman · « **Reply #28 on:** July 22, 2013, 10:57:04 AM »

Quote from: john_mo on July 22, 2013, 10:05:26 AM

Quote from: NicholasMyra on July 21, 2013, 11:16:33 PM
Quote from: Asteriktos on July 18, 2013, 10:26:15 PM
St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint. In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity. I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century. She was the one who ended iconoclasm.

from http://oca.org/saints/lives/2013/11/14/103302-st-theodora-the-empress

Quote

St Theodora the Empress
Commemorated on November 14

Saint Theodora was the wife of St Justinian the emperor, and lived during the sixth century.

The Empress Theodora was at first a notorious harlot and actress, and an adherent of the Monophysite heresy, but then she repented. After becoming empress, she led a virtuous life, maintaining purity of both soul and body. She provided wise counsel for her husband during his reign, and she also saved his throne during the Nika riots of 532 through her political intelligence and expertise.

St Theodora died in 548.

So which Church do you go to that makes here "not a saint", because it seems to me the Orthodox Church celebrates her sainthood.

john_mo · « **Reply #29 on:** July 22, 2013, 01:46:48 PM »

Quote from: minasoliman on July 22, 2013, 10:57:04 AM

Quote from: john_mo on July 22, 2013, 10:05:26 AM
Quote from: NicholasMyra on July 21, 2013, 11:16:33 PM
Quote from: Asteriktos on July 18, 2013, 10:26:15 PM
St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint. In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity. I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century. She was the one who ended iconoclasm.

from http://oca.org/saints/lives/2013/11/14/103302-st-theodora-the-empress

Quote
St Theodora the Empress
Commemorated on November 14

Saint Theodora was the wife of St Justinian the emperor, and lived during the sixth century.

The Empress Theodora was at first a notorious harlot and actress, and an adherent of the Monophysite heresy, but then she repented. After becoming empress, she led a virtuous life, maintaining purity of both soul and body. She provided wise counsel for her husband during his reign, and she also saved his throne during the Nika riots of 532 through her political intelligence and expertise.

St Theodora died in 548.

So which Church do you go to that makes here "not a saint", because it seems to me the Orthodox Church celebrates her sainthood.

Well I'll be darned. Thanks for this info. The strange thing is that I actually tried to research whether or not she was a saint a few months ago, and I couldn't find any such information. I was initially told by a fellow Orthodox that she wasn't a saint. I googled her, and all that came up was for Theodora of Alexandria or the wife of Theophilos. I just took a gander at her wikipedia page, and while the one for St Justinian mentions him being a saint, there is no such info for Theodora.

My apologies for the misinformation. I can only say that, for some reason, her sainthood doesn't seem to be well known. At least from what I've seen. Also, this is great! Even before knowing this I always thought she was an amazing leader.

minasoliman · « **Reply #30 on:** July 22, 2013, 02:04:56 PM »

My apologies for being snarky. I thought it was well known that she was a saint by both EOs and OOs.

john_mo · « **Reply #31 on:** July 22, 2013, 05:07:31 PM »

Quote from: minasoliman on July 22, 2013, 02:04:56 PM

My apologies for being snarky. I thought it was well known that she was a saint by both EOs and OOs.

No need to apologize. I am just so glad to hear that she is in fact a saint. As I said, I was always a Theodora fan from a historical standpoint, so this news made my day.

I just find it sad how all I heard about her before was that she was non-Chalcedonian.

NicholasMyra · « **Reply #32 on:** July 22, 2013, 07:28:34 PM »

Quote from: john_mo on July 22, 2013, 10:05:26 AM

Quote from: NicholasMyra on July 21, 2013, 11:16:33 PM
Quote from: Asteriktos on July 18, 2013, 10:26:15 PM
St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint.

There is Empress Theodora the wife of Justinian and Empress Theodora who convened the Seventh Ecumenical Council. Both are saints.

NicholasMyra · « **Reply #33 on:** July 22, 2013, 07:29:52 PM »

Quote from: john_mo on July 22, 2013, 05:07:31 PM

I just find it sad how all I heard about her before was that she was non-Chalcedonian.

This was not well defined at their time. She was sympathetic to non-Chalcedonians, but so was St. Justinian in his attempts to reconcile the schism. She was more tolerant of the persons themselves from what I understand.

JamesR · « **Reply #34 on:** July 22, 2013, 07:32:12 PM »

Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?

Mor Ephrem · « **Reply #35 on:** July 22, 2013, 07:36:52 PM »

Fail.

NicholasMyra · « **Reply #36 on:** July 22, 2013, 07:39:07 PM »

Quote from: JamesR on July 22, 2013, 07:32:12 PM

Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?

No.

Santagranddad · « **Reply #37 on:** July 22, 2013, 08:14:16 PM »

Quote from: JamesR on July 22, 2013, 07:32:12 PM

Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?

Groan, I don't believe my eyes.

Mor Ephrem · « **Reply #38 on:** July 22, 2013, 10:50:01 PM »

Quote from: Santagranddad on July 22, 2013, 08:14:16 PM

Quote from: JamesR on July 22, 2013, 07:32:12 PM
Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?

Groan, I don't believe my eyes.

It's good not to be in communion with some people, isn't it?

Shanghaiski · « **Reply #39 on:** July 22, 2013, 11:17:13 PM »

Quote from: Cyrillic on July 20, 2013, 01:04:03 PM

Quote from: john_mo on July 20, 2013, 07:39:41 AM
Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*

A scholarly book I have on his life appears to disprove that allegation.

Shanghaiski · « **Reply #40 on:** July 22, 2013, 11:18:01 PM »

Quote from: Cyrillic on July 20, 2013, 01:17:07 PM

Quote from: john_mo on July 20, 2013, 01:07:58 PM
Quote from: Cyrillic on July 20, 2013, 01:04:03 PM
Quote from: john_mo on July 20, 2013, 07:39:41 AM
Justinian was clearly Orthodox

*kuch* Aphtartodocetism *kuch*

Binged it, googled it. Can't find any info on this in English. Help a brotha out!

Justinian died a disciple of the heretical Julian of Halicarnassus who taught aphtartodocetism. Here's a link. It's a bad one, but still.

And the Church gives as much credence to that as St. Constantine being an Arian. Next.

Shanghaiski · « **Reply #41 on:** July 22, 2013, 11:19:47 PM »

Quote from: john_mo on July 22, 2013, 10:05:26 AM

Quote from: NicholasMyra on July 21, 2013, 11:16:33 PM
Quote from: Asteriktos on July 18, 2013, 10:26:15 PM
St. Justinian - Recovered lost Orthodox lands and protected existing lands, called fifth ecumenical council, etc.
+ Married St. Theodora

He married a Theodora, but she was no saint. In fact she was a heretic who was against Justinian's choice of Chalcedonian Christianity. I think the particular St. Theodora you're thinking of was also an empress, but was the wife of Theophilos and lived in the 9th century. She was the one who ended iconoclasm.

Can we stop slandering the saints now? St. Theodora is in the Synaxarion and her feast is celebrated with her husband. If you have a complaint, take it to the Church's complaints department. Due to heavy volume, there's a 1000 year backlog. Your complaint will be answered in the order it was received.

Shanghaiski · « **Reply #42 on:** July 22, 2013, 11:21:39 PM »

Quote from: john_mo on July 22, 2013, 05:07:31 PM

Quote from: minasoliman on July 22, 2013, 02:04:56 PM
My apologies for being snarky. I thought it was well known that she was a saint by both EOs and OOs.

No need to apologize. I am just so glad to hear that she is in fact a saint. As I said, I was always a Theodora fan from a historical standpoint, so this news made my day.

I just find it sad how all I heard about her before was that she was non-Chalcedonian.

Sorry. I responded as I read through the tread and missed your later posts. Apologies.

Shanghaiski · « **Reply #43 on:** July 22, 2013, 11:22:50 PM »

Quote from: Santagranddad on July 22, 2013, 08:14:16 PM

Quote from: JamesR on July 22, 2013, 07:32:12 PM
Didn't St. Justinian fall into the trap that so many other men fall into when they get a burnin' in their loins and marry a stripper who promoted heresy?

Groan, I don't believe my eyes.

Santagranddad, meet JamesR.

Shanghaiski · « **Reply #44 on:** July 22, 2013, 11:23:48 PM »

Quote from: NicholasMyra on July 22, 2013, 07:29:52 PM

Quote from: john_mo on July 22, 2013, 05:07:31 PM

I just find it sad how all I heard about her before was that she was non-Chalcedonian.
This was not well defined at their time. She was sympathetic to non-Chalcedonians, but so was St. Justinian in his attempts to reconcile the schism. She was more tolerant of the persons themselves from what I understand.

St. Theodora the Empress is one of the few post-Chalcedonian saints to be venerated officially by the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox.

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Which Christian Emperor Had the Most Significant Positive Impact on the Church?

Author Topic: Which Christian Emperor Had the Most Significant Positive Impact on the Church? (Read 6480 times)