OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 01, 2014, 10:35:29 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Another trad Catholic  (Read 735 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
wainscottbl
Grand Duke of Louisville and all the Kentuckys
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Somewhere between Rome and Constantinople (Roman Catholic investigating Eastern Orthodoxy)
Posts: 1,314


Ave, gratia plena, Dominus tecum.


« on: July 18, 2013, 12:41:45 AM »

I have to thank my virtuous Baptist grandmother for introducing me to the virtue of religion. When the Baptists said one had to be baptised to be saved I eventually called a number on the TV to order a free King James Bible. It was from the Mormons of course and being twelve they naturally talked to my mother. But I was "baptized" with her into their Church and believed it.

But a desire to be some sort of minister or even a priest because of a nostalgic affection I had for Catholicism, or what I thought of it from movies like The Godfather turned me towards the Catholic Church. I did the horrible RCIA classes with two liberal nuns in pants. I cannot remember what we learned but it was not the Creed. We did not learn by going through the Creed. But luckily I had done my own research and quickly turned to the traditional movement after my baptism. I first attended the indult mass and even spent time considering the priesthood with the Institute of Christ the King, but realising I liked the girls too much I decided the priesthood was not for me--since the Roman Catholics have celibate priests. In any case I decided to take sides with the SSPX.

I still remained a trad Catholic, but last summer I had a dark night. I went months without Mass or the sacraments, though I still blamed. In July I had a second case of status epiletus , a type of long lasting seizure that can be fatal. I was in a coma for three days and in the hospital for three. As soon as I got out I went to a traditional chapel near my home and made my confession to a good priest. By then the SSPX had been having in-fights. Bishop Fellay, the head of the SSPX had been talking with Rome, and some priests had spoken out against them and been expelled. I supported this resistance but I did not like all the division it created. I was yearning for unity among the Catholic Church. I knew there was a problem, but I hated being in these little parishes. Especially because I wanted to find a wife and all the girls were either too young, married already or they. Some of the bigger SSPX parishes had women, but though the fellowship was good, I felt like this was not proper.

So to shorten this all up I began considering Eastern Orthodoxy. I always have liked Russian culture and literature and have been using Russia Today as my news source for a year or so. The gorgeous Russian girls telling the news and the lack of dishonesty found on most other news stations is nice. Also I like Putin a lot. I've read Crime and Punishment at least three times. Love Russian stuff. Also love Middle Eastern stuff. Still a big fan of Western European literature, especially Dante, as well as the art and music. But as I have began looking into what really matters, questions of truth, I began seeing that the Filioque issue had problems, as does the papal thing. Also though I believed in Fatima, I did always have trouble with this God bent on punishing the world with wars and destruction if it did not do all these Rosaries and penance. I prayed for the conversion of Russia though because I loved Russia and thought she seemed to be the best nation right now in Christendom, even if she is secular and was once communist. At least Russia has made some laws against sodomy! And I just love Russia, so I was praying for her conversion. But of course considering Orthodoxy I had to wonder about Fatima, and what I have read about the problems with it making God bent on destruction has a point. I am still doing my research, but I plan on attending some Orthodox classes starting next month at a Greek Orthodox parish up in the city. I want to attend an Russian Orthodox Church, but the nearest one is three hours or so away up in Cincinnati. Now it really comes down to truth though. The authority of the Roman Catholic Church lies on the papal claim. The rest of their claim comes from that. My research begins to make me doubt the claims. One thing I will miss is my devotion to Thomas More if I convert, especially since I want to be a lawyer. Well, we will see what happens.

What do I like about Orthodoxy: The beautiful and ornate liturgy, which surpasses even the best Latin Masses as well as the simple way of praying and uniting with God rather than the more complicated way of the West, which has so many devotions and manners that you do not know which way to go. If I convert I will still love my Western culture that Catholicism formed and can never stop loving my Dante. But well that's my first post. Rather long. Sorry.
Logged

"Any rational society would have either killed me or put me to some good use." -Hannibal Lecter

"First principles...to each particular thing ask what is it in and of itself. What is its nature?" --Hannibal Lecter
lovesupreme
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 736


Out of This World


« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2013, 12:52:11 AM »

Welcome, wainscottbl, to the OC.net forums!

You will certainly find a rich, ancient tradition in Orthodoxy. However, and I'm sure you know this, the real "allure" of Orthodoxy is its adherence to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.

As your journey continues, always ask yourself, "am I drawing closer to our Lord?" At the end of the day, the Faith is not about the art or history or politics. It's about Jesus Christ.

Best wishes and prayers on your quest for the Truth!
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 12:52:26 AM by lovesupreme » Logged
wainscottbl
Grand Duke of Louisville and all the Kentuckys
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Somewhere between Rome and Constantinople (Roman Catholic investigating Eastern Orthodoxy)
Posts: 1,314


Ave, gratia plena, Dominus tecum.


« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2013, 01:16:31 AM »

You are right, which is why I am making sure it is about that in the end, the Faith and truth, and not the superficial things. And I do think I am growing closer to Christ and in virtue though embracing the Eastern way. I am sure I will have many falls along the way, but that is part of the Christian journey.
Logged

"Any rational society would have either killed me or put me to some good use." -Hannibal Lecter

"First principles...to each particular thing ask what is it in and of itself. What is its nature?" --Hannibal Lecter
ErmyCath
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic (inquiring with GOA)
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Mobile
Posts: 141



« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2013, 08:05:17 AM »

Welcome to the club of Trad Catholics who followed the "trad" all the way back to Orthodoxy!  Be assured of my prayers!
Logged

"You must have an opinion on everything and loudly confront everyone with it." - Cyrillic
spyridon
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Constantinople
Posts: 80



« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2013, 08:26:09 AM »

Our stories are very similar and you are certainly not the first Trad Cat to walk the Orthodox line. The enquiry classes will be really worthwhile and should help you work through the historicity of Orthodoxy. Just take it easy- lots of prayer- attend the services and you will get there.
God bless you on your journey.
p.s the Russians aren't the only jurisdiction with gorgeous girls. lol
Logged
Cyrillic
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,775



« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2013, 08:42:06 AM »

p.s the Russians aren't the only jurisdiction with gorgeous girls. lol

If you want gorgeous girls you should avoid the Greeks  Tongue
Logged

On a OC.net diet.

"Chi son?  Sono un poeta. Che cosa faccio? Scrivo. E come vivo?  Vivo."
-Giacomo Puccini
spyridon
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Constantinople
Posts: 80



« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2013, 09:03:34 AM »

p.s the Russians aren't the only jurisdiction with gorgeous girls. lol

If you want gorgeous girls you should avoid the Greeks  Tongue

Boom.Take cover, get in the trench and prepare for incoming.  Smiley
Logged
Santagranddad
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: ROCA
Posts: 990



« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2013, 09:28:30 AM »

p.s the Russians aren't the only jurisdiction with gorgeous girls. lol

If you want gorgeous girls you should avoid the Greeks  Tongue

Boom.Take cover, get in the trench and prepare for incoming.  Smiley

A few Greeks have said the Ottoman Turks regularly kidnapped the best looking boys and girls. Not quite sure what they were trying to tell me, but I have more than one beautiful, in a worldly sense, Greek woman. It's the grannies though with the sharp elbows you have watch for. laugh
Logged
wainscottbl
Grand Duke of Louisville and all the Kentuckys
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Somewhere between Rome and Constantinople (Roman Catholic investigating Eastern Orthodoxy)
Posts: 1,314


Ave, gratia plena, Dominus tecum.


« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2013, 01:31:18 PM »

Trust me it is not just the beautiful girls or wonderful Russian culture. I know the Orthodox culture is way more than the Russian Church and what matters in the end is the truth. I think the papal claim is shaky and the Filoque on a theological issue begins to have doubts to me. Of course the authority the Roman Catholics give to the Filoque is based on the authority of the Bishop of Rome because it has been declared infallibly a dogma in the West. But though some of the Western fathers in particular may use the procession from the Father and the Son on a theological level it seems a problem.

Not to undermine the equality of the persons in the Trinity as God in essence, one God with three distinct Persons. But the terms of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are clearly human terms because the Father is not a literal Father of the Son in the human sense of the word and to understand it this way would lead to Arianism, which the Mormons embrace today. There is the eternal begetting. The temporal begging is the Incarnation we might say where the Father gives the Son to man to save man. The question comes down to the Holy Spirit though. Though the Father is no more God than the Son or Spirit, the Father among all the fathers it seems has a monarchial nature, not in the sense of being more any more than the wording of Father makes the Father more of God than the Son. But the Father may be said to be the eternal origin of the Son, begetting the Son eternally as the Creed says. But the Filioque clause, added later perhaps at first as a means against the heresies about the Trinity like Arianism, was  not even in the West everywhere until later, though it was more accepted there even where not in the Creed. The problem is if the Father, though equal, is supposed to have a sort of monarchial nature in terms of human understanding, then in eternally begetting the Son, it would create problems to say He, with the Son, eternally processes the Holy Spirit. At most the Holy Spirit is revealed through the Incarnation of the Son, who after His Ascension, allows the Spirit to come down among the Apostles. In this sense we understand the Spirit by the Son, but that is temporal. The question lies in the eternal procession, which seems to belong to the Father, who is the eternal origin of the Godhead, though this must be understood very carefully, lest one think this makes the Father somehow more divine. Is that correct more or less?
Logged

"Any rational society would have either killed me or put me to some good use." -Hannibal Lecter

"First principles...to each particular thing ask what is it in and of itself. What is its nature?" --Hannibal Lecter
Sleeper
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,254

On hiatus for the foreseeable future.


« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2013, 02:23:00 PM »

Best of luck on your journey! Depending on where you are in the country/world, you may want to consider finding a Western Rite parish, where the "Best of the West" is blessed for use as Orthodox Christians. The traditional Latin mass would be served in parishes using the Rite of St. Gregory, which would very likely be something familiar to you. Not to discourage attending an Eastern Rite parish either, it depends on what you're looking for Smiley
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 29,383



« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2013, 04:02:25 PM »

I sometimes wonder how much of the anti-Catholic speech that Prince Myshkin gave is actually Dostoevsky's own views. He did seem rather...

Well, in any case, welcome to this forum. Smiley
Logged

"Change is the process of becoming more like who we are."
wainscottbl
Grand Duke of Louisville and all the Kentuckys
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Somewhere between Rome and Constantinople (Roman Catholic investigating Eastern Orthodoxy)
Posts: 1,314


Ave, gratia plena, Dominus tecum.


« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2013, 04:36:43 PM »

About an Eastern Rite Parish, I had consider that in the past and if I decide to stay with the Catholic view I will try to find an Eastern Rite parish, but the question really comes down to whether the papal claim and all coming form it is right or the Orthodox claim is right. The truth. Besides, I think as one Catholic friend said most Eastern Rite Catholics are want to be Orthodox. I remember when I have interests in the Eastern spirituality and thus the Eastern Rite Catholicism that I was very staunchly against the Eastern Rite Catholics claiming to be Catholic yet denying the Filioque. To me if you are going to be a Catholic, even Eastern Catholic under Rome you have to accept the infallible claims of Rome, and thus their defined dogma of the Filioque and all other dogmas the Orthodox deny. Many Eastern Rite Catholics seem to deny the Filioque outright. They say they do not have to accept it. But they do, at least in their heart, or they are heretics according to Roman Catholicism because it is a defined dogma. I can find the infallible declarations if you want. Thus while they, even before Vatican II, were never forced to include the Filioque in their Creed, they did have to accept it is a dogma and not deny it. But many do. It is one thing as a Roman Catholic with sympathies to the Easterns that I argued against because to me you have to accept all the Catholic Church teaches if you are going to be Catholic, even Eastern Rite. Otherwise just be Orthodox.
Logged

"Any rational society would have either killed me or put me to some good use." -Hannibal Lecter

"First principles...to each particular thing ask what is it in and of itself. What is its nature?" --Hannibal Lecter
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,166


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2013, 04:40:26 PM »

About an Eastern Rite Parish, I had consider that in the past and if I decide to stay with the Catholic view I will try to find an Eastern Rite parish, but the question really comes down to whether the papal claim and all coming form it is right or the Orthodox claim is right. The truth. Besides, I think as one Catholic friend said most Eastern Rite Catholics are want to be Orthodox. I remember when I have interests in the Eastern spirituality and thus the Eastern Rite Catholicism that I was very staunchly against the Eastern Rite Catholics claiming to be Catholic yet denying the Filioque. To me if you are going to be a Catholic, even Eastern Catholic under Rome you have to accept the infallible claims of Rome, and thus their defined dogma of the Filioque and all other dogmas the Orthodox deny. Many Eastern Rite Catholics seem to deny the Filioque outright. They say they do not have to accept it. But they do, at least in their heart, or they are heretics according to Roman Catholicism because it is a defined dogma. I can find the infallible declarations if you want. Thus while they, even before Vatican II, were never forced to include the Filioque in their Creed, they did have to accept it is a dogma and not deny it. But many do. It is one thing as a Roman Catholic with sympathies to the Easterns that I argued against because to me you have to accept all the Catholic Church teaches if you are going to be Catholic, even Eastern Rite. Otherwise just be Orthodox.
This is probably a good point for the strict seeker of truth.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,625


Teaching on the mountain


« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2013, 04:42:30 PM »

p.s the Russians aren't the only jurisdiction with gorgeous girls. lol

If you want gorgeous girls you should avoid the Greeks  Tongue
Agree. Aren't they mostly renowned for the boys anyways?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 04:43:52 PM by augustin717 » Logged
wainscottbl
Grand Duke of Louisville and all the Kentuckys
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Somewhere between Rome and Constantinople (Roman Catholic investigating Eastern Orthodoxy)
Posts: 1,314


Ave, gratia plena, Dominus tecum.


« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2013, 05:14:31 PM »

Who the priests? I am afraid so. But though I am not one to completely excuse the sex scandals like some Catholics, I am not want to deny the problem. But this stuff happens in the the public schools and all sorts of places. My good friend was molested by a man, a Protestant minister. It has made him struggle with homosexual inclinations and even at certain times in his life have male partners. He is now a Lutheran and against sodomy, but he still has the inclinations that he has to fight. They are a deep part of who he is. This is one of the psychological problems molestation causes. But he was molested by a Protestant minister, one who was likely married, so one cannot simply blame Catholic priests not being able to marry as the problem.

I think the problem is that sodomy has become such a part of our society that child molestation among the priests has increased so much. There are a lot of factors though, and that priests cannot marry may be part of it, but even in light of long tradition of the East for priests to marry, it cannot be blamed for the whole problem. I think a lot of it is that the Freemasons, who are demonic, have gotten involved in things to a deep degree. It is important to remember that there is sodomy that goes on among married men out at that horrible demonic ceremony out in California with the Bohemian Grove. Sodomy is sodomy, whether a person has "come out of the closet" or not. When a man lies with a man or a woman with a woman he is guilty of the sin of Sodom. He can be a whoremonger with all the women he wants and not have a sissy voice. He is still a sodomite. The demonic nature of the secret societies opens the soul up to such sins as sodomy, and particularly molesting children which is the worst sort of sodomy because it uses the innocent.

But I remember Pope Francis saying that married priests was never out of the questions and I remember certain traditional Catholics not liking that. I am not sure if traditional Catholics just like to be reactionary or what but though if I am a Catholic I like the Western tradition of celibacy, it is just that a tradition and law of the Church, not a Divine Law. The Church can change it and Roman Catholics who censure it if the Pope decides to allow married clergy undermine the idea of the pope having the right to change the law of the church and jurisdiction. They can't be so reactionary that they undermine the importance of jurisdiction. There is nothing heretical about allowing priests to marry, even if it has not been so for a long time in the West. It is not like going against the Pope kissing praying with the infidels or something.

So I think that on the issue of the priest scandal priests not marrying may have something to do with it, but I think that a lot of it is the demonic Freemasons and so forth entering the Vatican itself. I tend to thing that the accusations of sex scandals with children in the Vatican itself might just be true. I believe that even as a Catholic, because one cannot deny the state the Church is in.
Logged

"Any rational society would have either killed me or put me to some good use." -Hannibal Lecter

"First principles...to each particular thing ask what is it in and of itself. What is its nature?" --Hannibal Lecter
Thomas
Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,765



« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2013, 10:23:43 AM »

Welcome to the Convert Issues Forum! The purpose of the Convert issues forum is to provide a a place on the OC.Net where inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted could ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination. Many of those posting in this area are ignorant of Orthodox teachings and are using this forum to understand what are the basic teachings and practices of the Orthodox churches. Due to the simplicity of many of their requests and responses, direct and simple answers with sources if possible are most helpful.

If the moderators find that the discusions become faith or jurisdiction debates, the topic will be split and sent the appropriate OC.Net forum to continue the discussion or debate. As a poster,You may also ask that a topic be split so that a private discussion can be established to go into detail about the issues that you feel adamant about and wish to debate or discuss. The convert forum is not a place for combative debate or arguement. 

Thank you for your following these guidelines to the edification and spiritual growth of tyou and others. Again Welcome to the Convert Issues Forum!

In Christ,
Thomas
Convert Issues  Forum Moderator
Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.079 seconds with 43 queries.