Author Topic: Too good to be true?  (Read 1609 times)

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Offline Robert scho

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Too good to be true?
« on: October 29, 2013, 02:56:20 PM »
Greetings all and god bless;

This being the section for hot topics and the like I'd like to get some feedback from everyone about the idea that I've heard of on an Orthodox CD, I think the commentator is Priestmonk Kosmos?

Anyway, the way I remember it explained was simply that "if nothing is going wrong for someone in their life-pray for them because they've fallen from grace because of the lack of tribulation and trial in their life".

Any feedback on this idea? Anyone heard of this thing?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 02:59:34 PM by Robert scho »
For a Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful; and a good defense before the dread judgement seat of Christ, let us ask of the Lord.
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Offline Punch

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2013, 03:46:36 PM »
Yes, we have a horrible God that loves to see his children in nothing but misery and pain.  It would never be possible that God would actually Bless anyone.


The more I hear this rot, the less I like this religion.  The vast majority of our trials and tribulations are our own doing, not the Grace of God.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Robert scho

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2013, 03:57:24 PM »
Ok,Ok, I didnt quite know what to think of it either, still open to indepth points of view though
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 03:58:28 PM by Robert scho »
For a Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful; and a good defense before the dread judgement seat of Christ, let us ask of the Lord.
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2013, 08:57:48 PM »
I think it's not "rot," but rather a teaching which requires a certain advanced level of experience, spiritual learning, and the grace of God to understand--like much of what is in, say, the Philokalia. If you take it without the prerequisite understanding, you will misunderstand it and perhaps even become angry or depressed. In other words, it is not a teaching for everyone, but rather for those who are able to receive it. (And that is nothing new in our faith.)
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2013, 09:52:53 PM »
Just to chime in, our scriptures do say that Christians will be persecuted... If we evangelize as we should, we very well could face persecution.
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2013, 09:55:14 PM »
God does not wish us to suffer. However, scripture and Church teaching indicate that spiritual growth is born from struggle. And living the Christian life in a pagan world will inevitably bring us trials and tribulations. But I reject the notion that we should pray for people to suffer for any reason. For one thing, we never know what somebody is really going through. They may appear happy, successful, and healthy on the surface, but they may be suffering greatly on the inside.


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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2013, 10:26:15 PM »
Yes, we have a horrible God that loves to see his children in nothing but misery and pain.  It would never be possible that God would actually Bless anyone.


The more I hear this rot, the less I like this religion.  The vast majority of our trials and tribulations are our own doing, not the Grace of God.

minus the last sentence and EPIC!

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2013, 10:27:15 PM »
Greetings all and god bless;

This being the section for hot topics and the like I'd like to get some feedback from everyone

Robert I like your style . . .

I thought the subject would be about my avatar.

Offline Robert scho

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2013, 09:06:18 AM »
I thank you all for your feedback on this so far.

I must say that of all the views expressed so far that when I first listened to the CD I had a mixture of pretty much every one's thoughts expressed here so far.

Please, lets keep strong faith in the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

May god bless and keep us all.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 09:07:08 AM by Robert scho »
For a Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful; and a good defense before the dread judgement seat of Christ, let us ask of the Lord.
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2013, 11:27:50 AM »
It's important to remember though, that no one has a life in which 'nothing' is going wrong. We may think that they lack the suffering we may be encountering at any moment, or that their prosperity brings them satisfaction and so on. That is the sort of perspective that I think is necessary to understand what is being suggested on the CD. I don't see where it is that difficult to conceptualize.


Offline Robert scho

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2013, 01:12:10 PM »
For all who read this post;

I should definitely note that my intention was not to show any disregard or anything negative toward Priestmonk Kosmos, as in fact I have a high level of love and regard for all clergy and laity in our Orthodox Church, especially those in positions of monasticism,I do appreciate his talks as well and have learned much from him through his Cd's.

Also, when this was mentioned in the CD there were other things involved as to further expound on the subject.

The thread here should only reflect my own lack of knowledge and desire to converse with other Orthodox Christians on various issues.

For a Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful; and a good defense before the dread judgement seat of Christ, let us ask of the Lord.
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2013, 01:19:19 PM »
I don't think God wants us to suffer, but he knows we will suffer.... and we should suffer.  To cast off the flesh & fleshy desires it really feels like suffering.   

He knew & the apostles all knew that those evangelizing the message will suffer...   But he said "When they hate you, remember they hated me first".   Such awesome wisdom and loving words our lord gave us....  Where we know we are with him, even in suffering.
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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2013, 02:25:22 PM »
We Greeks like to say that small troubles keep big troubles at bay. I suspect many other cultures have similar bits of wisdom as well. :)

I don't think that anyone goes completely trouble-free for any length of time. It's just that a lot of small troubles tend to become a fixture of life and are not perceived as troubles to the casual observer.
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Offline eyesmile

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Re: Too good to be true?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2013, 04:52:16 PM »
..Anyway, the way I remember it explained was simply that "if nothing is going wrong for someone in their life-pray for them because they've fallen from grace because of the lack of tribulation and trial in their life".

Any feedback on this idea? Anyone heard of this thing?

Only in a broader context about people who are harmful to themselves or others out of false pride...  it reminded me of a story in the Philokalia.


[V1] 105

 St John Cassian

Nikodimos, St. (2010-10-22). The Philokalia (Kindle Locations 2786-2860).  . Kindle Edition.

""Abba Moses said: 'It is a good thing, as I said, not to hide your thoughts from the fathers. But you should not tell them to just anyone; you should confess them to spiritual masters who have discrimination, not simply to those whose hair has grown white with age. Many who have looked to age as a guide, and then revealed their thoughts, have not only remained unhealed but have been driven to despair because of the inexperience of those to whom they confessed."

"There was once a very zealous brother who was greatly troubled by the demon of unchastity. He went to a certain father and confessed his private thoughts to him; but this father, being inexperienced, became angry when he heard about them and told the brother that he was contemptible and unworthy of the monastic habit for having entertained thoughts such as these. When the brother heard this, he lost heart, left his cell and set off back to the world. Through God's providence, however, Abba Apollos, one of the most experienced of the elders, chanced to meet him and, seeing him over-wrought and very despondent, asked him why he was in this state. At first the brother did not reply because he was so depressed but, after the elder had pleaded with him, he told him what was wrong, saying: "Because I was often troubled by evil thoughts, I went to tell them to the elder; and as he said I have no hope of salvation, I have given up and am now on my way back to the world." "

" 'When Abba Apollos heard this, he comforted and encouraged him, saying: "Do not be surprised, my child, and do not lose hope. I too, old and grey as I am, am still much troubled by these thoughts. Do not be discouraged by this burning desire, which is healed not so much by human effort as by God's compassion. Please do this for me: go back to your cell just for today." This the brother did; and Apollos, after leaving him, went to the cell of the elder who had caused his despair. Standing outside he implored God with tears and said: "0 Lord, who puts us to the test for our own benefit, let this elder be given the brother's battle, so that in old age he may learn through experience what he has not been taught over these many years: how to feel sympathy with those who are under attack by the demons." As he finished his prayer, he saw a dark figure standing near the cell shooting arrows at the elder. Wounded by the arrows, the elder at once began to stumble back and forth as though drunk. Unable to withstand the attack, he finally left his cell and set off for the world by the same road that the young monk had taken."

  " 'Seeing what had happened, Abba Apollos confronted him, and asked him where he was going and why he was so troubled. Although he realized that the holy man knew what was wrong with him, he was too ashamed to say anything. Abba Apollos then said to him: "Return to your cell, and in the future recognize your own weakness. The devil has either not noticed or has despised you, and so not thought you worth fighting. Not that there has been any question of a fight: you could not stand up to his provocation even for a day! This has happened to you because, when you received a younger brother who was being attacked by our common enemy, you drove him to despair instead of preparing him for battle. You did not recall that wise precept: 'Deliver them that are being led away to death; and redeem them that are appointed to be slain' (Prov. 24:11. LXX). You did not even remember the parable of our Saviour, which teaches us not to break a bruised reed or quench smoking flax (cf. Matt. 12:20).None of us could endure the plots of the enemy, or allay the fiery turmoil of our nature, if God's grace did not protect our human weakness. Seeing, then, that God has had this compassion for us, let us pray to Him together and ask Him to withdraw the whip with which He has lashed you. 'For He wounds but binds up; He strikes but His hands heal’ (Job 5:18). “The Lord kills and gives life; he brings down to the grave and raises again. . . . He brings low and lifts up’ (1 Sam. 2:6-7)." After Abba Apollos had said this and had prayed, the attack which had been launched against the elder was at once suspended. Finally, Abba Apollos advised him to ask God to give him "the tongue of the learned" so as to know "how to speak a word in season" (Isa. 50:4)."

" 'From all that has been said, we may conclude that nothing leads so surely to salvation as to confess our private thoughts to those fathers most graced with the power of discrimination, and in our pursuit of holiness to be guided by them rather than by our own thoughts and judgment. Nor should the fact that we may encounter an elder who is somewhat simple-minded or lacking in experience either prevent us from confessing to the fathers who are truly qualified, or make us despise our ancestral traditions.""
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 04:56:22 PM by eyesmile »