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Author Topic: Goldman Sachs Needs Bailout!  (Read 377 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« on: July 16, 2013, 12:03:51 PM »

Oops, sorry folks, wrong year.


___________
Goldman Sachs Q2 earnings double

Goldman Sachs said its second-quarter profit doubled, as the giant investment bank saw revenues climb 30% while stock and bond underwriting sales rose by nearly half.

Goldman said it earned $1.93 billion for the three months ending June 30, or $3.70 a share. The results handily topped analysts' average estimate of $2.87 a share in net income, according to FactSet. The firm earned $927 million, or $1.78 a share, in the second quarter of 2012. Revenue climbed to $8.6 billion...
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2013, 12:09:11 PM »

Oops, sorry folks, wrong year.


___________
Goldman Sachs Q2 earnings double

Goldman Sachs said its second-quarter profit doubled, as the giant investment bank saw revenues climb 30% while stock and bond underwriting sales rose by nearly half.

Goldman said it earned $1.93 billion for the three months ending June 30, or $3.70 a share. The results handily topped analysts' average estimate of $2.87 a share in net income, according to FactSet. The firm earned $927 million, or $1.78 a share, in the second quarter of 2012. Revenue climbed to $8.6 billion...

I like to able to congratulate them, but feel I'd rather flagellate them.
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2013, 02:23:47 PM »

To the gallows.
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2013, 02:34:10 PM »

Large sums of money in financial reports don't mean anything until you can convert it into cash.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 02:34:55 PM by WPM » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2013, 03:25:48 PM »

Plus, banks and finance institutions live of investments.

Just like any business, it sure can be abused, but when banks do well it means they have been financing succesful investments, meaning more businesses around. Complaining that they get better profits than other businesses is like complaining that the surf teacher gets to go to the beach everyday. Making profit on profit is the core of the businesses.

Banks are not evil per se. But the more people don't even try thinking about them in positive ways what you get is self-fulfilling prophecy: it's something for crooks, honest people avoid it, crooks think they should give it a try, and then you see lots of crooks doing it.

The one thing the Church should get "up to date" with times is to get its traditionally positive view on honest creation of wealth and apply it to capitalism, instead of keeping using the demonizing stereotypes of anti-capitalists. Even the heretical Prosperity Theology is a indirect consequence of the lack of formalized discourse on creation of capital. Also it's about time Christians understand that modern profit is *not* usury.
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2013, 03:39:17 PM »

The Church has always been against usury!
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2013, 03:58:15 PM »

Quote
The Church has always been against usury!

Yes.

Only that profits on "loans" are not usury. Actually, the very word loan is not the best one to describe what's going on. We should use "rent".

Usury, on the other hand, is basically extorsion on someone in need.

Modern banking profit is *rent* on money used for investment.

There are some very questionable institutions who "lend" money to people in need as a scheme to get them to become financial slaves.

Serious institutions and banks though *avoid* these kinds of people because they represent high risk of default. They will seek people who need to rent a large sum of capital to use it in an investment that, although with its natural risk, at least looks reasonable. And reasonable will depend on the institution's risk tolerance.

Renting sums of money to people who need it is as "evil" as renting a house to a family that needs a home. Of course, there is an ethical issue there: do you put the family in the street if they stop paying the rent for a month? A quarter? A year? Do you do it at all? If they counted that you were not going to do it, they have actually *stolen* from you, and stealing happens to be on the 10 commandments.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 03:59:26 PM by Fabio Leite » Logged

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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2013, 04:00:10 PM »

Usury, on the other hand, is basically extorsion on someone in need.

Exactly! Why don't capitalists see this?  Angry
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2013, 04:16:20 PM »

We see. I see myself as a "capitalist" just in the sense that I think that capitalism is something natural, thus, inherently good, although commonly misused by our sinful nature. I'm certainly a long distance from being a capitalist in the being rich sense of the word.

Where I disagree with most of the anti-capitalists is with equating all profit, or at least all large capital profit with usury. They are not the same.

One of the "mindboggling" thing about modern capitalism is that you can make money with renting money, and that looks an awful lot like making money with doing nothing. But it's hard work and demand some very rare and high set of skills to identify and manage investments. While most of us have trouble assessing the feasibility of one single investment, there are some people who can do that with hundreds, thousands of them at the same time, all that aided by hundreds of years of institutional experience in bankig and finance and modern technology. Sometimes, when a bank refuses a loan because it considers the investment too risky, what it is really doing is saving the assets of that person or institution, which, if invested in a bad business, would lead to a total bankrupcy.

The whole banking imbroglio of the last years has more to do with governmental incentives to bad investments and subsequent bail outs to those who made such bad investments than with the concept of banking itself.

I agree that "as is" is not the ideal situation. But I can't see how maligning banking can help. We have to think what the healthy role of banking is in supporting the creation of wealth and then proceed to adjust laws and regulations to that.

Usury, on the other hand, is basically extorsion on someone in need.

Exactly! Why don't capitalists see this?  Angry
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 04:18:46 PM by Fabio Leite » Logged

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