Author Topic: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?  (Read 15176 times)

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Offline Romaios

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2013, 04:08:47 PM »
Meet?

Why is it right if it is self-serving?

"Meet and right" = axion kai dikaion = dignum et iustum. Orthodox talk...

It is your postulate that "self-serving" is always wrong, as "self-loathing" surely is. Is "love thy neighbour as thyself" not Gnostic Scripture?


 

 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 04:39:30 PM by Romaios »

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2013, 04:09:42 PM »
Quote
What does love of a father have to do with God?

God is our father.

Quote
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Actually, it is. Science has shown us, that humans are born with a belief in the divine.

Oh my. And here my mother thought that my father was my father.

Does you father know you have disowned him?

As to you last. A link would be required.

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2013, 04:09:57 PM »
Where all thee head of the Trinity killed?
If not, then there was no sacrifice.

The Word of God who took flesh and sacrificed Himself on the Cross was the same Word of God that created man from the dust, endowed him with free will, and commanded him not to eat of the fruit.

Ah yes. The one that murdered A & E by neglect and forcibly keeping them from what would keep them alive. The tree of life.

Christianity would have been brighter to stick with the original Jewish take of that myth.

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

Christian can never explain what is wrong with mankind having their eyes opened and gaining God's moral sense.

They seem to prefer us in ignorant bliss and blind. Dumb as heel that.

I guess that is what happens to good myths when another religion plagiarizes them.

Regards
DL

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18)
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2013, 04:10:56 PM »
You did not even get to the good part. It is a shame that your attention span is only 3 minutes.

It's at least as shameful as your reading comprehension.  I didn't say I stopped listening after three minutes, only that three minutes was enough to know the guy was full of it.  After listening to the whole video, I can't say that "the good part" was very convincing.  It seems like the guy took some modern scientific understandings of the brain and various ideas taken from "Eastern" religions like Hinduism (almost always the esoteric, philosophical stuff popular among "liberated" Westerners, never the stuff actual Hindus believe and practice) and mixed them with some gnostic stuff and applied all this to select passages of Scripture.  

Quote
Can you read scripture?

Enough to know that the interpretation of Israel as a combination of Isis, Ra, and El is bull on its face.  That would be Isisrael, unless there's some mystical reason (detailed in another video) why the last "is" is dropped, or why this depends on English versions of Hebrew and Egyptian terms.  If you can read some of the original languages, as I and many others here can, you don't get easily fooled by such things.  For others, there is dependable scholarship.  Again, not Youtube.    

Quote
What does this one tell you.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Something like Mt. 5.8

Quote
You asked how to get your soul to heaven.

No, I asked about heaving, since that's the word you used.  Based on your response, I suppose it was just your typo.  Be careful with those...people make huge mistakes based on simple errors.  

Quote
Where do you think heaven is?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

What do you think that last one is telling you?

I don't have a problem with either of those passages.  

What do you think the "kingdom of God" is?  

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2013, 04:13:05 PM »
Quote
What does love of a father have to do with God?

God is our father.

Quote
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Actually, it is. Science has shown us, that humans are born with a belief in the divine.


Oh my. And here my mother thought that my father was my father.

Does you father know you have disowned him?

As to you last. A link would be required.

Regards
DL


I think you should try and re-read scripture.

As for your request:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3512686/Children-are-born-believers-in-God-academic-claims.html
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2013, 04:14:15 PM »
Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

I don't have one.. so...  :)

Do you seek God or are you an atheist?
I am not an atheist but I get along with about 95% of them.

Do you recognize a spiritual side to your consciousness or being?

It was mostly a semantic thing. I don't have a need, but more like a want, and it is not to adore God, but simply to have a strong faith in him. As to whether that's a benefit or defect, I would generally say a benefit. But some days are worse than others  ;D

Faith is belief without anything concrete to look to.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

FMPOV, faith without facts is for fools.

If you wish belief in something real without the need for faith then------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2013, 04:17:52 PM »
Quote
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther

You post statements as if they were truths.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2013, 04:18:32 PM »
Thanks for the paste job.

What does that quote along with the others mean to you?

Regards
DL
Oh, I'm sorry, my bad. I figured since all your explanations of your beliefs came through youtube videos, I would share something that, you know, could actually be read.

Silly St Gregory...he should've made a video.  People don't have the attention span to read...their attention spans are and should necessarily be dedicated to the internet.  

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2013, 04:19:19 PM »
Meet?

Why is it right if it is self-serving?

"Meet and right" = axion kai dikaion = dignum and iustum. Orthodox talk...

It is your postulate that "self-serving" is always wrong, as "self-loathing" surely is. Is "love thy neighbour as thyself" not Gnostic Scripture?



I did not postulate anything. I asked a question and above I wrote that self-serving was natural between a child and parent. That does not apply to a God and thus I wanted clarification.

You did not provide it.

Some deserve love and some hate.
Or are you saying that those that God hates he is wrong for hating?

Regards
DL


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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2013, 04:22:49 PM »
Faith is belief without anything concrete to look to.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

FMPOV, faith without facts is for fools.

If you wish belief in something real without the need for faith then------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

I'm a skeptic, and think assumptions are all-pervasive. That means faith is as well. You can't walk out your front door without assuming certain things--taking certain things on faith. Some people say they don't have faith in such circumstances, that they base their assumptions on experience or fact. That's really just a semantic ploy. Any real faith is not blind, but based on experience and evidence. I agree that "faith without facts is for fools." I think the advice that some people give to "just have faith" is one of the worst things a person can say to another person. Faith is "assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." But I assure you that I have a reason to hope, and evidence that the person not seen is indeed there. I just wish sometimes (ok... all the time) that the reason and evidence were stronger.

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2013, 04:26:26 PM »
Faith is belief without anything concrete to look to.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

FMPOV, faith without facts is for fools.

If you wish belief in something real without the need for faith then------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

I'm a skeptic, and think assumptions are all-pervasive. That means faith is as well. You can't walk out your front door without assuming certain things--taking certain things on faith. Some people say they don't have faith in such circumstances, that they base their assumptions on experience or fact. That's really just a semantic ploy. Any real faith is not blind, but based on experience and evidence. I agree that "faith without facts is for fools." I think the advice that some people give to "just have faith" is one of the worst things a person can say to another person. Faith is "assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." But I assure you that I have a reason to hope, and evidence that the person not seen is indeed there. I just wish sometimes (ok... all the time) that the reason and evidence were stronger.

This is very good.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Romaios

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2013, 04:27:24 PM »
I did not postulate anything. I asked a question and above I wrote that self-serving was natural between a child and parent. That does not apply to a God and thus I wanted clarification.

You did not provide it.

No prayer's more natural than "Our Father in heaven", don't you think?

Some deserve love and some hate.
Or are you saying that those that God hates he is wrong for hating?

God does not deal with us according to our merits. His mercy outweighs His justice, as well as our "merits".

Offline Marc1152

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2013, 04:29:02 PM »
Let us pray:

"o Lord, please give me back the 10 minutes I just spent reading this thread"

Amen
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2013, 04:29:38 PM »
Where all thee head of the Trinity killed?
If not, then there was no sacrifice.

The Word of God who took flesh and sacrificed Himself on the Cross was the same Word of God that created man from the dust, endowed him with free will, and commanded him not to eat of the fruit.

Ah yes. The one that murdered A & E by neglect and forcibly keeping them from what would keep them alive. The tree of life.

Christianity would have been brighter to stick with the original Jewish take of that myth.

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

Christian can never explain what is wrong with mankind having their eyes opened and gaining God's moral sense.

They seem to prefer us in ignorant bliss and blind. Dumb as heel that.

I guess that is what happens to good myths when another religion plagiarizes them.

Regards
DL

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18)

Absolutely. And immoral as well. You have to perturb your soul by embracing barbaric and immoral human sacrifice. Take that concept past Satan to get to the power and majesty of God.

Remember that in the Moses myth, esoterically speaking, he had to get past the burning bush which is Satan.
God dwells behind his most trusted angel. That is why Satan is allowed freedom otherwise God would be seen as unjust. Justice delayed is justice denied. Right?

Think Kundalini.

Regards
DL

Offline Romaios

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2013, 04:35:38 PM »
Remember that in the Moses myth, esoterically speaking, he had to get past the burning bush which is Satan.
God dwells behind his most trusted angel. 

Right?

Wrong. Meetly and rightly speaking the Burning Bush is the all-holy Theotokos: God dwells in his most humble handmaid.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 04:36:31 PM by Romaios »

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2013, 04:37:43 PM »
You did not even get to the good part. It is a shame that your attention span is only 3 minutes.

It's at least as shameful as your reading comprehension.  I didn't say I stopped listening after three minutes, only that three minutes was enough to know the guy was full of it.  After listening to the whole video, I can't say that "the good part" was very convincing.  It seems like the guy took some modern scientific understandings of the brain and various ideas taken from "Eastern" religions like Hinduism (almost always the esoteric, philosophical stuff popular among "liberated" Westerners, never the stuff actual Hindus believe and practice) and mixed them with some gnostic stuff and applied all this to select passages of Scripture.  

Quote
Can you read scripture?

Enough to know that the interpretation of Israel as a combination of Isis, Ra, and El is bull on its face.  That would be Isisrael, unless there's some mystical reason (detailed in another video) why the last "is" is dropped, or why this depends on English versions of Hebrew and Egyptian terms.  If you can read some of the original languages, as I and many others here can, you don't get easily fooled by such things.  For others, there is dependable scholarship.  Again, not Youtube.    

Quote
What does this one tell you.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Something like Mt. 5.8

Quote
You asked how to get your soul to heaven.

No, I asked about heaving, since that's the word you used.  Based on your response, I suppose it was just your typo.  Be careful with those...people make huge mistakes based on simple errors.  

Quote
Where do you think heaven is?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

What do you think that last one is telling you?

I don't have a problem with either of those passages.  

What do you think the "kingdom of God" is?  

The light within me when I activate it just as Jesus says it is. A realm of nothing but though. A cosmic consciousness.

Light may be seen as enlightenment because in reality, that place is not bright at all.

This is it for me today. Duty calls.

Regards
DL

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #106 on: July 16, 2013, 04:44:52 PM »
The light within me when I activate it just as Jesus says it is. A realm of nothing but though. A cosmic consciousness.

Light may be seen as enlightenment because in reality, that place is not bright at all.

This is it for me today. Duty calls.

How convenient. 

Where does Jesus say that the light you activate within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)...A cosmic consciousness"?  Nothing you quoted from his words in the Gospels is nearly that esoteric.   

Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2013, 04:45:36 PM »
No point in responding to this one, methinks my time better devoted to cutting my toenails.....

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #108 on: July 16, 2013, 04:46:33 PM »
Think Kundalini.


More like kundi.  Look it up, both are in the same basic region.  

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #109 on: July 16, 2013, 04:47:53 PM »
No point in responding to this one, methinks my time better devoted to cutting my toenails.....

TheTri and I (hey, that has a nice ring to it  ;D) have some great recipes for toenails.  He's a little stingy with his, though...family "secrets"( ::)) and all that. ;D
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #110 on: July 16, 2013, 05:04:47 PM »
No point in responding to this one, methinks my time better devoted to cutting my toenails.....

TheTri and I (hey, that has a nice ring to it  ;D) have some great recipes for toenails.  He's a little stingy with his, though...family "secrets"( ::)) and all that. ;D

Please don't make me laugh, my sides are still hurting from earlier....

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2013, 05:41:06 PM »
Christian can never explain what is wrong with mankind having their eyes opened and gaining God's moral sense.

They seem to prefer us in ignorant bliss and blind. Dumb as heel that.

I guess that is what happens to good myths when another religion plagiarizes them.

You cite the Jewish take on the 'myth' without seeming to know the Christian take on it.

The command to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not a permanent commandment. Adam was created in a state of spiritual infancy, and was created to gradually progress toward spiritual maturity. The sin in eating from the tree was the attempt to do so without God (an impossibility, of course, which is why eating from the tree did not actually benefit man once he had done so). Rather than desiring us to remain "in ignorant bliss and blind," God desires us to become like Him by grace - this is what we call theosis, and what the Orthodox Church regards as the very purpose of human existence - through union with Him. The essence of Satanic deception was the lie the serpent told Eve in Paradise, namely that this could be achieved by man's own effort, outside of this divine union (essentially what you seem to subscribe to). Of course, separation from God, who is life, does not lead to theosis but to death...from which Christ lovingly came to rescue us from by assuming that same death and destroying it's binding power by uniting His divine nature with our humanity.

So you couldn't really be more wrong.

Offline theistgal

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2013, 05:44:46 PM »
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Technically, since we believe the Son was also God, it would be suicide, not genocide.

Not that we believe either one. But you know, if you're going to insult people you don't know, you should strive for accuracy.  8)

Who did I insult?

How?

Regards
DL

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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2013, 07:26:26 PM »
Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

In the story od David and Bathsheba, they sinned yet God punished their child.
Do you prefer God's method of torture for 7 days before the killing?

At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Would you prefer living by God's barbaric laws?
Are you ready to pick up stones to stone unruly children or people wearing two different clots?


Regards
DL
Rape, torture and slavery?  What are you talking about?

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #114 on: July 16, 2013, 07:29:06 PM »
At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI


That was a decent movie, too bad there's only a 10 minute clip there. Have you seen the end of it, btw? The ending might surprise you if you are going only by that clip taken out of context...
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 07:29:25 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #115 on: July 16, 2013, 07:29:44 PM »
You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Your point?

Regards
DL
You should fix yourself. There is one God and many false gods.

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #116 on: July 16, 2013, 07:30:36 PM »
At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI


That was a decent movie, too bad there's only a 10 minute clip there. Have you seen the end of it, btw? The ending might surprise you if you are going only by that clip taken out of context...

The full movie: God on Trial

And a shortcut to the end.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 07:32:28 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #117 on: July 16, 2013, 07:31:54 PM »


You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.


That certainly is an opinion, even if its incorrect.  Tell me, just how is it you can dictate how, what and the reasoning of God?

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #118 on: July 16, 2013, 07:35:17 PM »
The question is based on a false premise, I believe. Just as God gave us His Only Son out of love and I believe He is loved neither out of some mechanical need or defect. If there is a defect anywhere maybe it is the inability or unwillingness to grasp this.

Gave us Jesus out of love. How droll.

 It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related


Tell us all my friend.

If you had God's powers and decided a barbaric human sacrifice was needed, would you do the right thing and step up to your own requirements or would you send your child?

Should sons bury fathers or should fathers bury sons.

You do not like your answers. Right?

That is why I do not like your God.

Regards
DL

It's a good thing the world has you to clarify how insane God is.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #119 on: July 16, 2013, 07:38:10 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL
:o

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #120 on: July 16, 2013, 07:46:38 PM »
Quote
What does love of a father have to do with God?

God is our father.

Quote
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Actually, it is. Science has shown us, that humans are born with a belief in the divine.

Oh my. And here my mother thought that my father was my father.

Does you father know you have disowned him?

As to you last. A link would be required.

Regards
DL

That...didn't...even make sense.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #121 on: July 16, 2013, 07:52:44 PM »
I usually disagree with Kerdy on most things, but this is one of those threads that I appreciate his bluntness and unevasive approach to the nonsense that spews forth.  ;D
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2013, 08:14:39 PM »
Quote
What does love of a father have to do with God?

God is our father.

Quote
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Actually, it is. Science has shown us, that humans are born with a belief in the divine.


Oh my. And here my mother thought that my father was my father.

Does you father know you have disowned him?

As to you last. A link would be required.

Regards
DL


I think you should try and re-read scripture.

As for your request:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3512686/Children-are-born-believers-in-God-academic-claims.html

Thanks for this.

I looked for a peer reviewed report but could not find one.

My only comment is that all other things in a child life have a purpose and it is not that surprising that they would think that all things have a purpose. The is a far cry from thinking that a miracle working absentee God did and that he must be obeyed or he will punish you forever.

If that felling went deeper in children, one would think that all would know that there is only one God and that as adults, all you believers would not be at each others throats.

In a way, his report makes all believers look rather retarded for not getting along.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #123 on: July 16, 2013, 08:17:50 PM »
Quote
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther

You post statements as if they were truths.

The quotes are authentic and given to show how twisted some Church leaders are.

Are you married?

Show this one to your wife and ask he what she thinks.

“If a woman grows weary and, at last, dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die from bearing - she is there to do it.”
- Martin Luther

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #124 on: July 16, 2013, 08:20:14 PM »
Martin who?
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #125 on: July 16, 2013, 08:31:41 PM »
Faith is belief without anything concrete to look to.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

FMPOV, faith without facts is for fools.

If you wish belief in something real without the need for faith then------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

I'm a skeptic, and think assumptions are all-pervasive. That means faith is as well. You can't walk out your front door without assuming certain things--taking certain things on faith. Some people say they don't have faith in such circumstances, that they base their assumptions on experience or fact. That's really just a semantic ploy. Any real faith is not blind, but based on experience and evidence. I agree that "faith without facts is for fools." I think the advice that some people give to "just have faith" is one of the worst things a person can say to another person. Faith is "assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." But I assure you that I have a reason to hope, and evidence that the person not seen is indeed there. I just wish sometimes (ok... all the time) that the reason and evidence were stronger.

I am between a rock and a hard place. I went from skeptic/atheist looking for facts to Gnostic Christian after suffering the pain and pleasure of apotheosis.

There are some things out there that one could call evidence but it is hard to spot and only shows half the story.

Let me give you a thinking experiment. Some people see it, some don't.

I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.

When this was written, most thought it to just be a cynical view of life but I think it is quite true and irrefutable, based on the anthropic principle and pure logic.

What do you think?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPClzIsYxvA

This is done by nature and not a God but would be a requirement of a God if he were real.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2013, 08:37:27 PM »
I did not postulate anything. I asked a question and above I wrote that self-serving was natural between a child and parent. That does not apply to a God and thus I wanted clarification.

You did not provide it.

No prayer's more natural than "Our Father in heaven", don't you think?

Some deserve love and some hate.
Or are you saying that those that God hates he is wrong for hating?

God does not deal with us according to our merits. His mercy outweighs His justice, as well as our "merits".

Sure. He showed that mercy to A & E the first time they did their will and not his. He murdered them by neglect and keeping them from what would keep them alive.

Today, any judge would slide his immoral ass into a jail cell and he would be well justified.

Or do you think that was anything other than murder?

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #127 on: July 16, 2013, 08:38:46 PM »
Quote
I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.
To say that God evolves or changes means that there are limitations to this God.  I would say that perhaps men's understanding of God evolves, but for God Himself to evolve, you remove a basic essence of who God is, the Unmoved Mover, in the words of Aristotle.
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2013, 08:40:15 PM »
Remember that in the Moses myth, esoterically speaking, he had to get past the burning bush which is Satan.
God dwells behind his most trusted angel.  

Right?

Wrong. Meetly and rightly speaking the Burning Bush is the all-holy Theotokos: God dwells in his most humble handmaid.

Earth - water - air - fire - Godhead.

Think Kundalini. Better still. Think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUV_Xtzz3CQ

Regards
DL
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 08:41:43 PM by Greatest I am »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2013, 08:43:59 PM »
I did not postulate anything. I asked a question and above I wrote that self-serving was natural between a child and parent. That does not apply to a God and thus I wanted clarification.

You did not provide it.

No prayer's more natural than "Our Father in heaven", don't you think?

Some deserve love and some hate.
Or are you saying that those that God hates he is wrong for hating?

God does not deal with us according to our merits. His mercy outweighs His justice, as well as our "merits".

Sure. He showed that mercy to A & E the first time they did their will and not his. He murdered them by neglect and keeping them from what would keep them alive.

Today, any judge would slide his immoral ass into a jail cell and he would be well justified.

Or do you think that was anything other than murder?

Regards
DL

It is comments like these that demonstrate you don't really have any understanding of Orthodox teachings.  If you want to criticize Scripture based on outright literal interpretations, perhaps your time would be better spent at the Fundamentalist Christian forums here: http://www.christianforums.com/f370/ You will at least be speaking the same language as them.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 08:44:48 PM by TheTrisagion »
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #130 on: July 16, 2013, 08:46:38 PM »
The light within me when I activate it just as Jesus says it is. A realm of nothing but though. A cosmic consciousness.

Light may be seen as enlightenment because in reality, that place is not bright at all.

This is it for me today. Duty calls.

How convenient. 

Where does Jesus say that the light you activate within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)...A cosmic consciousness"?  Nothing you quoted from his words in the Gospels is nearly that esoteric.   

Now I get hell for visiting one of my sons in the hospital.

A good way to draw me to your religion.

Listen. Learn. If you are capable. It is all from Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL


Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #131 on: July 16, 2013, 08:55:34 PM »
Christian can never explain what is wrong with mankind having their eyes opened and gaining God's moral sense.

They seem to prefer us in ignorant bliss and blind. Dumb as heel that.

I guess that is what happens to good myths when another religion plagiarizes them.

You cite the Jewish take on the 'myth' without seeming to know the Christian take on it.

The command to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not a permanent commandment. Adam was created in a state of spiritual infancy, and was created to gradually progress toward spiritual maturity. The sin in eating from the tree was the attempt to do so without God (an impossibility, of course, which is why eating from the tree did not actually benefit man once he had done so). Rather than desiring us to remain "in ignorant bliss and blind," God desires us to become like Him by grace - this is what we call theosis, and what the Orthodox Church regards as the very purpose of human existence - through union with Him. The essence of Satanic deception was the lie the serpent told Eve in Paradise, namely that this could be achieved by man's own effort, outside of this divine union (essentially what you seem to subscribe to). Of course, separation from God, who is life, does not lead to theosis but to death...from which Christ lovingly came to rescue us from by assuming that same death and destroying it's binding power by uniting His divine nature with our humanity.

So you couldn't really be more wrong.

You have added quite a bit to the story and scriptures tell you not to do so.

You said that A & E were not ready for theosis but God disagrees with you.

Gen 3;22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Jews were right and Eden was man's elevation according to God's own words. Suck it up an stop making up your own story of Eden.

That or start an O P on it and I will pin your ears back one quote at a time.

Regards
DL
 

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2013, 08:58:00 PM »
Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

In the story od David and Bathsheba, they sinned yet God punished their child.
Do you prefer God's method of torture for 7 days before the killing?

At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Would you prefer living by God's barbaric laws?
Are you ready to pick up stones to stone unruly children or people wearing two different clots?


Regards
DL
Rape, torture and slavery?  What are you talking about?

Punch those word and bible into google and read.

I see that you are not upset with God torturing a child for 7 days before killing it.

Nice morals pal.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #133 on: July 16, 2013, 09:03:04 PM »
At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI


That was a decent movie, too bad there's only a 10 minute clip there. Have you seen the end of it, btw? The ending might surprise you if you are going only by that clip taken out of context...

I have seen it all and it is on the net for all to see.

I was surprised a bit on the ending but as a Gnostic Christian, I promote spiritual seeking and have no problem with their stance.

I have spoken to many Jews and most seem brighter than the average Christian.

The more literal or fundamental believers are, from any religion, the less they seem able to think for themselves.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #134 on: July 16, 2013, 09:06:45 PM »
You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Your point?

Regards
DL
You should fix yourself. There is one God and many false gods.

If God did not want false Gods then he would not sin by lying to prophets now would he.

Care to tell us why he would do such a thing?

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
Thessalonians 2:11

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

Regards
DL