Author Topic: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?  (Read 15158 times)

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Offline Greatest I am

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Is needing, wanting or worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Gods have no needs or wants that man can assuage. Gods are said to be so high above us that for any God to have such a need would be like man craving the adoration of germs.

I see us as just as foolish as germs and the creatures shown in this clip as we act the same way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4a_uwyY_H4

I can see where at one time it would have been profitable to bend the knee to King/Gods as in the original archetype city states, as used in the original Eden myth written by the Jews, but not today.

That myth I think was written of the following reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ9cvYB7Tes

Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses and only the really right wing theists would want to live under the laws of the old barbaric Gods.

I am not an atheist and seek God to appease what I recognize as my spiritual side. But not to bend the knee or adore; just to improve any defect in my thinking; if I have one. 

I know that there are way more followers out there than leaders but cannot fathom why someone would want to lower themselves to adore even a God unless it is strictly as a self-serving action that we hope God will recognize and reward.

That is hardly being good for goodness sake. God would know and send such hypocrites to hell. Which scriptures say is where the vast majority of us will end up regardless.

That means that you, even if you pray daily and hard, are likely going to hell along with most of those you know. In a sense, you should feel sorry for those few who make it to heaven as they must spend eternity watching their loved ones in purposeless torture. That would drive any moral person insane.

Gods have no needs or wants and has no rewards to give in exchange for what Gods have no need or want of.

The Godhead I know certainly disavows such a need or want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkT1-N0VqUc

Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

Regards
DL

Offline Cyrillic

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Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

Offline Ansgar

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Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Kerdy

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You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Offline Orthodox11

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O my Lord, if I worship You from fear of hell, burn me in hell.
If I worship You from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.
But if I worship You for Yourself alone, do not deny to me Your eternal beauty - Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya

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Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

I don't have one.. so...  :)

Offline TheTrisagion

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I find it intriguing that Greatest I am comes and posts these threads questioning basic tenets of Christianity, but when people respond, he seldom responds.  It is almost as if he is a
God bless!

Offline TheTrisagion

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Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

I don't have one.. so...  :)
You don't have one?  I have several for sale.  Perhaps take a look from our Sumerian collection.

God bless!

Offline biro

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I find it intriguing that Greatest I am comes and posts these threads questioning basic tenets of Christianity, but when people respond, he seldom responds.  It is almost as if he is a


Of course.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Santagranddad

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The question is based on a false premise, I believe. Just as God gave us His Only Son out of love and I believe He is loved neither out of some mechanical need or defect. If there is a defect anywhere maybe it is the inability or unwillingness to grasp this.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 08:56:32 AM »
I think the greater question is why does Greatest I am have this compelling need to return over and over to this forum and attempt to reassure his own beliefs by these threads?  I get a sense that he has doubts about his own belief system and feels the need to post this stuff to help himself bolster his confidence in his own world view.
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 12:59:08 PM »
Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

In the story od David and Bathsheba, they sinned yet God punished their child.
Do you prefer God's method of torture for 7 days before the killing?

At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Would you prefer living by God's barbaric laws?
Are you ready to pick up stones to stone unruly children or people wearing two different clots?


Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 01:04:06 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2013, 01:04:56 PM »
You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Your point?

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 01:07:13 PM »
O my Lord, if I worship You from fear of hell, burn me in hell.
If I worship You from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.
But if I worship You for Yourself alone, do not deny to me Your eternal beauty - Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya

Thanks for ignoring the question and giving garbage.

You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.

Listen to an intelligent Bishop and learn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Regards
DL
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 01:08:20 PM by Greatest I am »

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 01:11:27 PM »
Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

I don't have one.. so...  :)

Do you seek God or are you an atheist?
I am not an atheist but I get along with about 95% of them.

Do you recognize a spiritual side to your consciousness or being?

Regards
DL

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2013, 01:11:39 PM »
You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.

Perhaps you should look up the Orthodox understanding of hell. You'd quickly realise that the above statement is N/A.

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2013, 01:13:07 PM »
I find it intriguing that Greatest I am comes and posts these threads questioning basic tenets of Christianity, but when people respond, he seldom responds.  It is almost as if he is a


I have two threads going and you will note that I respond to almost all who give something that deserves an answer.

Fools like you IO tend to ignore.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2013, 01:18:20 PM »
The question is based on a false premise, I believe. Just as God gave us His Only Son out of love and I believe He is loved neither out of some mechanical need or defect. If there is a defect anywhere maybe it is the inability or unwillingness to grasp this.

Gave us Jesus out of love. How droll.

 It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related


Tell us all my friend.

If you had God's powers and decided a barbaric human sacrifice was needed, would you do the right thing and step up to your own requirements or would you send your child?

Should sons bury fathers or should fathers bury sons.

You do not like your answers. Right?

That is why I do not like your God.

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2013, 01:23:00 PM »
I find it intriguing that Greatest I am comes and posts these threads questioning basic tenets of Christianity, but when people respond, he seldom responds.  It is almost as if he is a


I have two threads going and you will note that I respond to almost all who give something that deserves an answer.

Fools like you IO tend to ignore.

Regards
DL

LOL, perhaps I would give you serious responses if you actually were interested in understanding Orthodox teachings. Your mocking comments demonstrate you neither know, nor have a desire to know anything about Orthodoxy. Your arguments are one strawman after another, so why bother responding?
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2013, 01:23:35 PM »
I think the greater question is why does Greatest I am have this compelling need to return over and over to this forum and attempt to reassure his own beliefs by these threads?  I get a sense that he has doubts about his own belief system and feels the need to post this stuff to help himself bolster his confidence in his own world view.

Who can say.

Do you know my beliefs or even care?

First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Second. I try to teach the real Jesus. The one your church will not teach because there in not enough money in it for them.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Can you tell us what Jesus is saying here?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

I did not think so.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2013, 01:25:55 PM »
You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.

Perhaps you should look up the Orthodox understanding of hell. You'd quickly realise that the above statement is N/A.

If you cared, you would inform.
If you do not then you are not of God.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Regards
DL

Offline Romaios

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2013, 01:28:30 PM »
Is needing, wanting or worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Gods have no needs or wants that man can assuage. Gods are said to be so high above us that for any God to have such a need would be like man craving the adoration of germs.

I see us as just as foolish as germs and the creatures shown in this clip as we act the same way.

Quote from: Psalm 15
The inscription of a title to David himself. Preserve me, O Lord, for I have put trust in thee.

I have said to the Lord, thou art my God, for thou hast no need of my goods.

To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.

Their infirmities were multiplied: afterwards they made haste. I will not gather together their meetings for blood offerings: nor will I be mindful of their names by my lips.

The Lord is the portion of my inheritance and of my cup: it is thou that wilt restore my inheritance to me.

The lines are fallen unto me in goodly places: for my inheritance is goodly to me.

I will bless the Lord, who hath given me understanding: moreover my reins also have corrected me even till night.

I set the Lord always in my sight: for he is at my right hand, that I be not moved.

Therefore my heart hath been glad, and my tongue hath rejoiced: moreover my flesh also shall rest in hope.

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.

Thou hast made known to me the ways of life, thou shalt fill me with joy with thy countenance: at thy right hand are delights even to the end.

I am not an atheist and seek God to appease what I recognize as my spiritual side. But not to bend the knee or adore; just to improve any defect in my thinking; if I have one.

Lol. 

Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2013, 01:29:10 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 01:31:33 PM by Santagranddad »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2013, 01:29:22 PM »
I think the greater question is why does Greatest I am have this compelling need to return over and over to this forum and attempt to reassure his own beliefs by these threads?  I get a sense that he has doubts about his own belief system and feels the need to post this stuff to help himself bolster his confidence in his own world view.

Who can say.

Do you know my beliefs or even care?

Assuming you are gnostic as you state, yes I do know them.  And, no, I don't care.

Quote
First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

So are you claiming to be the Lord or a father who delights in his son?

Quote
Second. I try to teach the real Jesus. The one your church will not teach because there in not enough money in it for them.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Can you tell us what Jesus is saying here?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

I did not think so.

Regards
DL
I know what the Church Fathers state about it and I follow their teachings.  Whether or not that co-insides with your own theories, I neither know, nor care.
God bless!

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2013, 01:32:36 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 01:40:27 PM »
Quote
If you cared, you would inform.
If you do not then you are not of God.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Proverbs also says something about answering someone according to their folly (26:4), and you give the impression you are here to pontificate, not learn. But if you actually want information, this link is a good starting point: http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

Quote
It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

God who exists outside of time could see the choices man would make using the freedom He had given them, in order for them to be capable of love. As such, He could foreordain Christ's redemptive work from the beginning. This does not mean He ordained for man to sin.

Christ's suffering on the Cross was necessary in order to conquer death, which man had brought into existence through sin. That was not the only purpose of His incarnation, however.

Mankind was created for union with God, theosis. Part of this involved the incarnation of the Word, His assumption of a human nature. The Word would therefore have become incarnate even if man had not sinned, but in order to bring about man's perfection not his restoration. St. Maximos the Confessor says much about this. Perhaps someone else can give an exact reference as to where.

Quote
First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

First, you should find out what people think before trying to correct it. So far you've only made statements that have nothing to do with what the Orthodox Church teaches.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 01:40:48 PM by Orthodox11 »

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 01:57:48 PM »
Y'all are fattening him:
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2013, 02:01:56 PM »
Do you know my beliefs

No

or even care?

No.

First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

Good. Perhaps your posts will start making sense.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2013, 02:03:20 PM »
Y'all are fattening him:

but it is just so much fun!

*throws another bone*
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2013, 02:06:56 PM »
Is needing, wanting or worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Gods have no needs or wants that man can assuage. Gods are said to be so high above us that for any God to have such a need would be like man craving the adoration of germs.

I see us as just as foolish as germs and the creatures shown in this clip as we act the same way.

Quote from: Psalm 15
The inscription of a title to David himself. Preserve me, O Lord, for I have put trust in thee.

I have said to the Lord, thou art my God, for thou hast no need of my goods.

To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.

Their infirmities were multiplied: afterwards they made haste. I will not gather together their meetings for blood offerings: nor will I be mindful of their names by my lips.

The Lord is the portion of my inheritance and of my cup: it is thou that wilt restore my inheritance to me.

The lines are fallen unto me in goodly places: for my inheritance is goodly to me.

I will bless the Lord, who hath given me understanding: moreover my reins also have corrected me even till night.

I set the Lord always in my sight: for he is at my right hand, that I be not moved.

Therefore my heart hath been glad, and my tongue hath rejoiced: moreover my flesh also shall rest in hope.

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.

Thou hast made known to me the ways of life, thou shalt fill me with joy with thy countenance: at thy right hand are delights even to the end.

I am not an atheist and seek God to appease what I recognize as my spiritual side. But not to bend the knee or adore; just to improve any defect in my thinking; if I have one.

Lol. 


Did you have something to tell us?

Regards
DL

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2013, 02:08:33 PM »
Is needing, wanting or worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Gods have no needs or wants that man can assuage. Gods are said to be so high above us that for any God to have such a need would be like man craving the adoration of germs.

I see us as just as foolish as germs and the creatures shown in this clip as we act the same way.

Quote from: Psalm 15
The inscription of a title to David himself. Preserve me, O Lord, for I have put trust in thee.

I have said to the Lord, thou art my God, for thou hast no need of my goods.

To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.

Their infirmities were multiplied: afterwards they made haste. I will not gather together their meetings for blood offerings: nor will I be mindful of their names by my lips.

The Lord is the portion of my inheritance and of my cup: it is thou that wilt restore my inheritance to me.

The lines are fallen unto me in goodly places: for my inheritance is goodly to me.

I will bless the Lord, who hath given me understanding: moreover my reins also have corrected me even till night.

I set the Lord always in my sight: for he is at my right hand, that I be not moved.

Therefore my heart hath been glad, and my tongue hath rejoiced: moreover my flesh also shall rest in hope.

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.

Thou hast made known to me the ways of life, thou shalt fill me with joy with thy countenance: at thy right hand are delights even to the end.

I am not an atheist and seek God to appease what I recognize as my spiritual side. But not to bend the knee or adore; just to improve any defect in my thinking; if I have one.

Lol. 


Did you have something to tell us?

Regards
DL

There's more than 1 of you? :o :o :o
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2013, 02:08:42 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2013, 02:10:57 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2013, 02:11:07 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

In that case, what about we all act like great minds and start discussing what orthodox christians actually believe?
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2013, 02:12:50 PM »
Quote
If you cared, you would inform.
If you do not then you are not of God.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Proverbs also says something about answering someone according to their folly (26:4), and you give the impression you are here to pontificate, not learn. But if you actually want information, this link is a good starting point: http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

Quote
It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

God who exists outside of time could see the choices man would make using the freedom He had given them, in order for them to be capable of love. As such, He could foreordain Christ's redemptive work from the beginning. This does not mean He ordained for man to sin.

Christ's suffering on the Cross was necessary in order to conquer death, which man had brought into existence through sin. That was not the only purpose of His incarnation, however.

Mankind was created for union with God, theosis. Part of this involved the incarnation of the Word, His assumption of a human nature. The Word would therefore have become incarnate even if man had not sinned, but in order to bring about man's perfection not his restoration. St. Maximos the Confessor says much about this. Perhaps someone else can give an exact reference as to where.

Quote
First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

First, you should find out what people think before trying to correct it. So far you've only made statements that have nothing to do with what the Orthodox Church teaches.


In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning.
He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do too. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

When you die, Satan will ask you; How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

When you say yes, you become his.

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2013, 02:13:16 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL

No. Again, you're making claims with no substance. We don't believe in universalism, but neither do we believe that God created us just to condemn us to everlasting torment. This is whatyou, appearently, think we believe.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2013, 02:14:58 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

In that case, what about we all act like great minds and start discussing what orthodox christians actually believe?

Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2013, 02:16:39 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL

No. Again, you're making claims with no substance. We don't believe in universalism, but neither do we believe that God created us just to condemn us to everlasting torment. This is whatyou, appearently, think we believe.

And people bitch but do not correct.

How does your God dole out his reward and punishment.

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2013, 02:16:48 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

In that case, what about we all act like great minds and start discussing what orthodox christians actually believe?

Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Regards
DL

A benefit, because it enables us to commune with God.

Are we done now?
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2013, 02:18:44 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL

No. Again, you're making claims with no substance. We don't believe in universalism, but neither do we believe that God created us just to condemn us to everlasting torment. This is whatyou, appearently, think we believe.

And people bitch but do not correct.

How does your God dole out his reward and punishment.

Regards
DL

I did correct you. You said something wrong about Orthodoxy and I told you what we believe. Now, you are replying with a new question, that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline biro

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2013, 02:19:37 PM »
Is DL a defect or a benefit?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2013, 02:26:41 PM »
Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

God does not demand sacrifice, He gives Himself as sacrifice. Your attempt to critique Anselmian atonement theory is rather wasted on an Orthodox forum.

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2013, 02:29:31 PM »
Hey Greatest I am,

Do you have a "Scripture" for your belief system?  I've read the Bible, the Quran, and various Hindu texts, and while the others are all interesting in their own way, I stick with the Bible.  But if you had a Scripture, I'd be willing to give it a chance.  I'd love to know what you and other "GreatestIamists" (may I call them that?) actually believe rather than all the things you think suck about what we believe.  There's gotta be more to it than 72 posts and some Youtube links.

Offline Romaios

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Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2013, 02:30:20 PM »
Did you have something to tell us?

That we need, want and worship a God who is both fully human (so He can understand us) and infinitely more than human at the same time. That's not a defect - it's just the way things are.