Author Topic: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?  (Read 15523 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Is needing, wanting or worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Gods have no needs or wants that man can assuage. Gods are said to be so high above us that for any God to have such a need would be like man craving the adoration of germs.

I see us as just as foolish as germs and the creatures shown in this clip as we act the same way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4a_uwyY_H4

I can see where at one time it would have been profitable to bend the knee to King/Gods as in the original archetype city states, as used in the original Eden myth written by the Jews, but not today.

That myth I think was written of the following reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ9cvYB7Tes

Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses and only the really right wing theists would want to live under the laws of the old barbaric Gods.

I am not an atheist and seek God to appease what I recognize as my spiritual side. But not to bend the knee or adore; just to improve any defect in my thinking; if I have one. 

I know that there are way more followers out there than leaders but cannot fathom why someone would want to lower themselves to adore even a God unless it is strictly as a self-serving action that we hope God will recognize and reward.

That is hardly being good for goodness sake. God would know and send such hypocrites to hell. Which scriptures say is where the vast majority of us will end up regardless.

That means that you, even if you pray daily and hard, are likely going to hell along with most of those you know. In a sense, you should feel sorry for those few who make it to heaven as they must spend eternity watching their loved ones in purposeless torture. That would drive any moral person insane.

Gods have no needs or wants and has no rewards to give in exchange for what Gods have no need or want of.

The Godhead I know certainly disavows such a need or want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkT1-N0VqUc

Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

Regards
DL

Offline Cyrillic

  • Laser Basileus.
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,710
  • St. Theodoret of Cyrrhus, pray for us!
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Offline Orthodox11

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,994
O my Lord, if I worship You from fear of hell, burn me in hell.
If I worship You from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.
But if I worship You for Yourself alone, do not deny to me Your eternal beauty - Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,099
Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

I don't have one.. so...  :)

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
I find it intriguing that Greatest I am comes and posts these threads questioning basic tenets of Christianity, but when people respond, he seldom responds.  It is almost as if he is a
God bless!

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

I don't have one.. so...  :)
You don't have one?  I have several for sale.  Perhaps take a look from our Sumerian collection.

God bless!

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,795
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
I find it intriguing that Greatest I am comes and posts these threads questioning basic tenets of Christianity, but when people respond, he seldom responds.  It is almost as if he is a


Of course.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Santagranddad

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,198
The question is based on a false premise, I believe. Just as God gave us His Only Son out of love and I believe He is loved neither out of some mechanical need or defect. If there is a defect anywhere maybe it is the inability or unwillingness to grasp this.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 08:56:32 AM »
I think the greater question is why does Greatest I am have this compelling need to return over and over to this forum and attempt to reassure his own beliefs by these threads?  I get a sense that he has doubts about his own belief system and feels the need to post this stuff to help himself bolster his confidence in his own world view.
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 12:59:08 PM »
Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

In the story od David and Bathsheba, they sinned yet God punished their child.
Do you prefer God's method of torture for 7 days before the killing?

At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Would you prefer living by God's barbaric laws?
Are you ready to pick up stones to stone unruly children or people wearing two different clots?


Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 01:04:06 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2013, 01:04:56 PM »
You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Your point?

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 01:07:13 PM »
O my Lord, if I worship You from fear of hell, burn me in hell.
If I worship You from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.
But if I worship You for Yourself alone, do not deny to me Your eternal beauty - Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya

Thanks for ignoring the question and giving garbage.

You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.

Listen to an intelligent Bishop and learn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Regards
DL
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 01:08:20 PM by Greatest I am »

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 01:11:27 PM »
Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

I don't have one.. so...  :)

Do you seek God or are you an atheist?
I am not an atheist but I get along with about 95% of them.

Do you recognize a spiritual side to your consciousness or being?

Regards
DL

Offline Orthodox11

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2013, 01:11:39 PM »
You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.

Perhaps you should look up the Orthodox understanding of hell. You'd quickly realise that the above statement is N/A.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2013, 01:13:07 PM »
I find it intriguing that Greatest I am comes and posts these threads questioning basic tenets of Christianity, but when people respond, he seldom responds.  It is almost as if he is a


I have two threads going and you will note that I respond to almost all who give something that deserves an answer.

Fools like you IO tend to ignore.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2013, 01:18:20 PM »
The question is based on a false premise, I believe. Just as God gave us His Only Son out of love and I believe He is loved neither out of some mechanical need or defect. If there is a defect anywhere maybe it is the inability or unwillingness to grasp this.

Gave us Jesus out of love. How droll.

 It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related


Tell us all my friend.

If you had God's powers and decided a barbaric human sacrifice was needed, would you do the right thing and step up to your own requirements or would you send your child?

Should sons bury fathers or should fathers bury sons.

You do not like your answers. Right?

That is why I do not like your God.

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2013, 01:23:00 PM »
I find it intriguing that Greatest I am comes and posts these threads questioning basic tenets of Christianity, but when people respond, he seldom responds.  It is almost as if he is a


I have two threads going and you will note that I respond to almost all who give something that deserves an answer.

Fools like you IO tend to ignore.

Regards
DL

LOL, perhaps I would give you serious responses if you actually were interested in understanding Orthodox teachings. Your mocking comments demonstrate you neither know, nor have a desire to know anything about Orthodoxy. Your arguments are one strawman after another, so why bother responding?
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2013, 01:23:35 PM »
I think the greater question is why does Greatest I am have this compelling need to return over and over to this forum and attempt to reassure his own beliefs by these threads?  I get a sense that he has doubts about his own belief system and feels the need to post this stuff to help himself bolster his confidence in his own world view.

Who can say.

Do you know my beliefs or even care?

First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Second. I try to teach the real Jesus. The one your church will not teach because there in not enough money in it for them.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Can you tell us what Jesus is saying here?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

I did not think so.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2013, 01:25:55 PM »
You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.

Perhaps you should look up the Orthodox understanding of hell. You'd quickly realise that the above statement is N/A.

If you cared, you would inform.
If you do not then you are not of God.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Regards
DL

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2013, 01:28:30 PM »
Is needing, wanting or worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Gods have no needs or wants that man can assuage. Gods are said to be so high above us that for any God to have such a need would be like man craving the adoration of germs.

I see us as just as foolish as germs and the creatures shown in this clip as we act the same way.

Quote from: Psalm 15
The inscription of a title to David himself. Preserve me, O Lord, for I have put trust in thee.

I have said to the Lord, thou art my God, for thou hast no need of my goods.

To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.

Their infirmities were multiplied: afterwards they made haste. I will not gather together their meetings for blood offerings: nor will I be mindful of their names by my lips.

The Lord is the portion of my inheritance and of my cup: it is thou that wilt restore my inheritance to me.

The lines are fallen unto me in goodly places: for my inheritance is goodly to me.

I will bless the Lord, who hath given me understanding: moreover my reins also have corrected me even till night.

I set the Lord always in my sight: for he is at my right hand, that I be not moved.

Therefore my heart hath been glad, and my tongue hath rejoiced: moreover my flesh also shall rest in hope.

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.

Thou hast made known to me the ways of life, thou shalt fill me with joy with thy countenance: at thy right hand are delights even to the end.

I am not an atheist and seek God to appease what I recognize as my spiritual side. But not to bend the knee or adore; just to improve any defect in my thinking; if I have one.

Lol. 

Offline Santagranddad

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,198
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2013, 01:29:10 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 01:31:33 PM by Santagranddad »

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2013, 01:29:22 PM »
I think the greater question is why does Greatest I am have this compelling need to return over and over to this forum and attempt to reassure his own beliefs by these threads?  I get a sense that he has doubts about his own belief system and feels the need to post this stuff to help himself bolster his confidence in his own world view.

Who can say.

Do you know my beliefs or even care?

Assuming you are gnostic as you state, yes I do know them.  And, no, I don't care.

Quote
First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

So are you claiming to be the Lord or a father who delights in his son?

Quote
Second. I try to teach the real Jesus. The one your church will not teach because there in not enough money in it for them.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Can you tell us what Jesus is saying here?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

I did not think so.

Regards
DL
I know what the Church Fathers state about it and I follow their teachings.  Whether or not that co-insides with your own theories, I neither know, nor care.
God bless!

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2013, 01:32:36 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Orthodox11

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 01:40:27 PM »
Quote
If you cared, you would inform.
If you do not then you are not of God.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Proverbs also says something about answering someone according to their folly (26:4), and you give the impression you are here to pontificate, not learn. But if you actually want information, this link is a good starting point: http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

Quote
It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

God who exists outside of time could see the choices man would make using the freedom He had given them, in order for them to be capable of love. As such, He could foreordain Christ's redemptive work from the beginning. This does not mean He ordained for man to sin.

Christ's suffering on the Cross was necessary in order to conquer death, which man had brought into existence through sin. That was not the only purpose of His incarnation, however.

Mankind was created for union with God, theosis. Part of this involved the incarnation of the Word, His assumption of a human nature. The Word would therefore have become incarnate even if man had not sinned, but in order to bring about man's perfection not his restoration. St. Maximos the Confessor says much about this. Perhaps someone else can give an exact reference as to where.

Quote
First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

First, you should find out what people think before trying to correct it. So far you've only made statements that have nothing to do with what the Orthodox Church teaches.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 01:40:48 PM by Orthodox11 »

Offline J Michael

  • Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,549
  • Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!
  • Faith: Cafeteria CHRISTIAN Heretic
  • Jurisdiction: Here and now (well...sometimes...)
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 01:57:48 PM »
Y'all are fattening him:
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Cyrillic

  • Laser Basileus.
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,710
  • St. Theodoret of Cyrrhus, pray for us!
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2013, 02:01:56 PM »
Do you know my beliefs

No

or even care?

No.

First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

Good. Perhaps your posts will start making sense.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2013, 02:03:20 PM »
Y'all are fattening him:

but it is just so much fun!

*throws another bone*
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2013, 02:06:56 PM »
Is needing, wanting or worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Gods have no needs or wants that man can assuage. Gods are said to be so high above us that for any God to have such a need would be like man craving the adoration of germs.

I see us as just as foolish as germs and the creatures shown in this clip as we act the same way.

Quote from: Psalm 15
The inscription of a title to David himself. Preserve me, O Lord, for I have put trust in thee.

I have said to the Lord, thou art my God, for thou hast no need of my goods.

To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.

Their infirmities were multiplied: afterwards they made haste. I will not gather together their meetings for blood offerings: nor will I be mindful of their names by my lips.

The Lord is the portion of my inheritance and of my cup: it is thou that wilt restore my inheritance to me.

The lines are fallen unto me in goodly places: for my inheritance is goodly to me.

I will bless the Lord, who hath given me understanding: moreover my reins also have corrected me even till night.

I set the Lord always in my sight: for he is at my right hand, that I be not moved.

Therefore my heart hath been glad, and my tongue hath rejoiced: moreover my flesh also shall rest in hope.

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.

Thou hast made known to me the ways of life, thou shalt fill me with joy with thy countenance: at thy right hand are delights even to the end.

I am not an atheist and seek God to appease what I recognize as my spiritual side. But not to bend the knee or adore; just to improve any defect in my thinking; if I have one.

Lol. 


Did you have something to tell us?

Regards
DL

Offline J Michael

  • Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,549
  • Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!
  • Faith: Cafeteria CHRISTIAN Heretic
  • Jurisdiction: Here and now (well...sometimes...)
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2013, 02:08:33 PM »
Is needing, wanting or worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Gods have no needs or wants that man can assuage. Gods are said to be so high above us that for any God to have such a need would be like man craving the adoration of germs.

I see us as just as foolish as germs and the creatures shown in this clip as we act the same way.

Quote from: Psalm 15
The inscription of a title to David himself. Preserve me, O Lord, for I have put trust in thee.

I have said to the Lord, thou art my God, for thou hast no need of my goods.

To the saints, who are in his land, he hath made wonderful all my desires in them.

Their infirmities were multiplied: afterwards they made haste. I will not gather together their meetings for blood offerings: nor will I be mindful of their names by my lips.

The Lord is the portion of my inheritance and of my cup: it is thou that wilt restore my inheritance to me.

The lines are fallen unto me in goodly places: for my inheritance is goodly to me.

I will bless the Lord, who hath given me understanding: moreover my reins also have corrected me even till night.

I set the Lord always in my sight: for he is at my right hand, that I be not moved.

Therefore my heart hath been glad, and my tongue hath rejoiced: moreover my flesh also shall rest in hope.

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.

Thou hast made known to me the ways of life, thou shalt fill me with joy with thy countenance: at thy right hand are delights even to the end.

I am not an atheist and seek God to appease what I recognize as my spiritual side. But not to bend the knee or adore; just to improve any defect in my thinking; if I have one.

Lol. 


Did you have something to tell us?

Regards
DL

There's more than 1 of you? :o :o :o
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2013, 02:08:42 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2013, 02:10:57 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2013, 02:11:07 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

In that case, what about we all act like great minds and start discussing what orthodox christians actually believe?
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2013, 02:12:50 PM »
Quote
If you cared, you would inform.
If you do not then you are not of God.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Proverbs also says something about answering someone according to their folly (26:4), and you give the impression you are here to pontificate, not learn. But if you actually want information, this link is a good starting point: http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

Quote
It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

God who exists outside of time could see the choices man would make using the freedom He had given them, in order for them to be capable of love. As such, He could foreordain Christ's redemptive work from the beginning. This does not mean He ordained for man to sin.

Christ's suffering on the Cross was necessary in order to conquer death, which man had brought into existence through sin. That was not the only purpose of His incarnation, however.

Mankind was created for union with God, theosis. Part of this involved the incarnation of the Word, His assumption of a human nature. The Word would therefore have become incarnate even if man had not sinned, but in order to bring about man's perfection not his restoration. St. Maximos the Confessor says much about this. Perhaps someone else can give an exact reference as to where.

Quote
First. I try to correct foolish thinking.

First, you should find out what people think before trying to correct it. So far you've only made statements that have nothing to do with what the Orthodox Church teaches.


In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning.
He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do too. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

When you die, Satan will ask you; How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

When you say yes, you become his.

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2013, 02:13:16 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL

No. Again, you're making claims with no substance. We don't believe in universalism, but neither do we believe that God created us just to condemn us to everlasting torment. This is whatyou, appearently, think we believe.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2013, 02:14:58 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

In that case, what about we all act like great minds and start discussing what orthodox christians actually believe?

Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2013, 02:16:39 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL

No. Again, you're making claims with no substance. We don't believe in universalism, but neither do we believe that God created us just to condemn us to everlasting torment. This is whatyou, appearently, think we believe.

And people bitch but do not correct.

How does your God dole out his reward and punishment.

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2013, 02:16:48 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

In that case, what about we all act like great minds and start discussing what orthodox christians actually believe?

Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Regards
DL

A benefit, because it enables us to commune with God.

Are we done now?
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2013, 02:18:44 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL

No. Again, you're making claims with no substance. We don't believe in universalism, but neither do we believe that God created us just to condemn us to everlasting torment. This is whatyou, appearently, think we believe.

And people bitch but do not correct.

How does your God dole out his reward and punishment.

Regards
DL

I did correct you. You said something wrong about Orthodoxy and I told you what we believe. Now, you are replying with a new question, that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,795
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2013, 02:19:37 PM »
Is DL a defect or a benefit?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Orthodox11

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2013, 02:26:41 PM »
Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

God does not demand sacrifice, He gives Himself as sacrifice. Your attempt to critique Anselmian atonement theory is rather wasted on an Orthodox forum.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2013, 02:29:31 PM »
Hey Greatest I am,

Do you have a "Scripture" for your belief system?  I've read the Bible, the Quran, and various Hindu texts, and while the others are all interesting in their own way, I stick with the Bible.  But if you had a Scripture, I'd be willing to give it a chance.  I'd love to know what you and other "GreatestIamists" (may I call them that?) actually believe rather than all the things you think suck about what we believe.  There's gotta be more to it than 72 posts and some Youtube links.
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2013, 02:30:20 PM »
Did you have something to tell us?

That we need, want and worship a God who is both fully human (so He can understand us) and infinitely more than human at the same time. That's not a defect - it's just the way things are.

Offline theistgal

  • Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,240
  • don't even go there!
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2013, 02:31:31 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

What kind of mind wastes time on Internet forums insulting people who don't share their beliefs?
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2013, 02:33:46 PM »
What kind of mind wastes time on Internet forums insulting people who don't share their beliefs?

Obviously not Eleanor Roosevelt's kind of mind.  But perhaps that's because Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet. 
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2013, 02:51:38 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

In that case, what about we all act like great minds and start discussing what orthodox christians actually believe?

Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Regards
DL

A benefit, because it enables us to commune with God.

Are we done now?

Why, is normal civil discourse that painful for you?
 
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Is that Moral?

Regards
DL

Offline theistgal

  • Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,240
  • don't even go there!
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2013, 02:52:59 PM »
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Aren't you posting for self-serving reasons?  ::)

And by the way, I thought Gnosticism was in favor of self-knowledge, so why would that be a bad thing? What kind of Gnostic are you, anyway?  :police:
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 02:54:22 PM by theistgal »
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2013, 02:53:17 PM »
[
I did correct you. You said something wrong about Orthodoxy and I told you what we believe. Now, you are replying with a new question, that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

And again you give a useless answer.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2013, 02:55:31 PM »
Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

God does not demand sacrifice, He gives Himself as sacrifice.

Where all thee head of the Trinity killed?
If not, then there was no sacrifice.

Regards
DL

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2013, 02:58:50 PM »
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Is that Moral?

According to your "Moral", devil-worship seems the thing to do, since it would be more altruistic. In the end, you lose for sure.


Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2013, 03:01:56 PM »
Hey Greatest I am,

Do you have a "Scripture" for your belief system?  I've read the Bible, the Quran, and various Hindu texts, and while the others are all interesting in their own way, I stick with the Bible.  But if you had a Scripture, I'd be willing to give it a chance.  I'd love to know what you and other "GreatestIamists" (may I call them that?) actually believe rather than all the things you think suck about what we believe.  There's gotta be more to it than 72 posts and some Youtube links.

I start with Jesus I know and go from there.

With him, I do not have to embrace human sacrifice and the immoral notion that I should profit from God having his son needlessly murdered nor do I have to try to profit from the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

You go ahead though. Satan likes that.

I use a moral method to get my soul to heave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

.


Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2013, 03:04:27 PM »
I start with Jesus I know and go from there.

Tell me about this Jesus.
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2013, 03:06:02 PM »
Did you have something to tell us?

That we need, want and worship a God who is both fully human (so He can understand us) and infinitely more than human at the same time. That's not a defect - it's just the way things are.

God is human. I agree. The real Gods have always been.

Why any human would kneel to an alien God is beyond me and that is why I ask----
 
Why do you worship the God you describe as alien?

Regards
DL

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,795
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2013, 03:10:31 PM »
Okay, how long until the nasty little troll gets the ban hammer?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2013, 03:11:37 PM »
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Aren't you posting for self-serving reasons?  ::)

And by the way, I thought Gnosticism was in favor of self-knowledge, so why would that be a bad thing? What kind of Gnostic are you, anyway?  :police:

Are we not all here for self-serving reasons?

Yes Gnostics favor knowledge over blind faith and where did I say self-knowledge was a bad thing.
If you are going to distort or miss-represent then perhaps you should start to quote.

I call myself Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist. A seeker to you.

Regards
DL

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,917
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2013, 03:13:37 PM »
How do we define "defect" and "benefit"? These are philosophical terms. To the empiricist, they don't exist. Science only tells you how things are. As to whether something is a "defect" or "benefit," that depends on who you ask. They are relative philosophical terms based off of the value and feelings we ascribe to certain realities of life.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2013, 03:14:47 PM »
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Is that Moral?

According to your "Moral", devil-worship seems the thing to do, since it would be more altruistic. In the end, you lose for sure.



From this I take it that you recognize that what you do is not moral so you tried to deflect to my morals by stating something about a devil whereas I have never spoken of him.

Honest people will recognize what you did.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2013, 03:15:50 PM »
I start with Jesus I know and go from there.

Tell me about this Jesus.

Follow the link I gave.

Regards
DL

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,795
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2013, 03:16:11 PM »
How do we define "defect" and "benefit"? These are philosophical terms. To the empiricist, they don't exist. Science only tells you how things are. As to whether something is a "defect" or "benefit," that depends on who you ask. They are relative philosophical terms based off of the value and feelings we ascribe to certain realities of life.

Nailed it.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2013, 03:17:08 PM »
Okay, how long until the nasty little troll gets the ban hammer?

Why?

Are you starting to be ashamed of the intolerance shown by some of your members?

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2013, 03:19:07 PM »
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Aren't you posting for self-serving reasons?  ::)

And by the way, I thought Gnosticism was in favor of self-knowledge, so why would that be a bad thing? What kind of Gnostic are you, anyway?  :police:

Are we not all here for self-serving reasons?

Yes Gnostics favor knowledge over blind faith and where did I say self-knowledge was a bad thing.
If you are going to distort or miss-represent then perhaps you should start to quote.

I call myself Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist. A seeker to you.

Regards
DL
See, this is funny because:
1. you have not shown that you have any more knowledge and any less blind faith than anyone else
2. your self classification as a Christian is based on the "Jesus you know" who apparently no one else does.
3. Your dogmatic arrogance against traditional Christian belief means if you are an ecumenist, you suck at it
4. if you are a seeker, we haven't seen any seeking being done on your part.  Only boasting.

You are esoteric though.  The group of people who understand what you are talking about is confined to a single individual.
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2013, 03:19:17 PM »
How do we define "defect" and "benefit"? These are philosophical terms. To the empiricist, they don't exist. Science only tells you how things are. As to whether something is a "defect" or "benefit," that depends on who you ask. They are relative philosophical terms based off of the value and feelings we ascribe to certain realities of life.

I do not plan to re-write the dictionary and will go with Webster.

You can be as general as you like. I will follow I am sure.

Regards
DL

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,795
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2013, 03:19:57 PM »
Okay, how long until the nasty little troll gets the ban hammer?

Why?

Are you starting to be ashamed of the intolerance shown by some of your members?

Regards
DL

I get it. You feed him, he giggles.

You see a roach, you step on it.

He deserves nothing.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2013, 03:21:15 PM »
From this I take it that you recognize that what you do is not moral so you tried to deflect to my morals by stating something about a devil whereas I have never spoken of him.

Honest people will recognize what you did.

This is too much mind-twisting for a poor non-gnostic like myself.

You did speak of Satan. I assumed he and the devil were one and the same to you as they are to us - is that an ignorant assumption?

I do not know anything about your morals.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2013, 03:22:08 PM »
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Aren't you posting for self-serving reasons?  ::)

And by the way, I thought Gnosticism was in favor of self-knowledge, so why would that be a bad thing? What kind of Gnostic are you, anyway?  :police:

Are we not all here for self-serving reasons?

Yes Gnostics favor knowledge over blind faith and where did I say self-knowledge was a bad thing.
If you are going to distort or miss-represent then perhaps you should start to quote.

I call myself Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist. A seeker to you.

Regards
DL
See, this is funny because:
1. you have not shown that you have any more knowledge and any less blind faith than anyone else
2. your self classification as a Christian is based on the "Jesus you know" who apparently no one else does.
3. Your dogmatic arrogance against traditional Christian belief means if you are an ecumenist, you suck at it
4. if you are a seeker, we haven't seen any seeking being done on your part.  Only boasting.

You are esoteric though.  The group of people who understand what you are talking about is confined to a single individual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLG2jaVdUMo

Regards
DL

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2013, 03:22:20 PM »
I use a moral method to get my soul to heave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

How does one get his soul to heave?  I know I can stick fingers down my throat or drink some syrup of ipecac if I want my stomach to heave, but I'm unfamiliar with how a soul does this.  

Anyway, I'm three minutes into your video, and already I think the guy is full of it.  And that's not just because he thinks the "Church is full of baloney" or due to the monkeyesque arm movements which I haven't seen any lecturer worth his salt do while teaching.  He takes one statement of Jesus ("By myself I can do nothing") as if that trumps everything else.  Well, even if you dismiss the Church, you can't dismiss the book from which you learned about that statement.  There are others therein which are inconvenient for Mr Donohue's interpretation of this word.  What a surprise, a selective reading based on one's own presuppositions:  

 

Like I said, your Scripture would be nice.  Youtube isn't enough.  
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,917
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2013, 03:25:43 PM »
How do we define "defect" and "benefit"? These are philosophical terms. To the empiricist, they don't exist. Science only tells you how things are. As to whether something is a "defect" or "benefit," that depends on who you ask. They are relative philosophical terms based off of the value and feelings we ascribe to certain realities of life.

I do not plan to re-write the dictionary and will go with Webster.

You can be as general as you like. I will follow I am sure.

Regards
DL

Well, my thoughts are that there really is no way to objectively say in either direction whether the desire to worship a God is a human "defect" or "benefit" because these are abstract, relative terms. There is no objective definition of "defect" or "benefit"--in fact, philosophers to this very day argue over what exactly the meaning is of these words.

And even if we DO happen to come up with a definition--for example, let's say that "benefit" is whatever brings us happiness and pleasure, and "defect" is whatever does not and/or prevents us from being happy or experiencing pleasure. How do we define happiness? It's anecdotal. Some people may very well be happy worshipping a God, whereas others may be repulsed by it. Not everyone is the same. Thus, I don't see how we could really definitively say whether worshipping a God is a benefit or defect, because all humans are different and may have different feelings and/or motives about their worship or lack of. I don't like umbrella statements; too right-winged. As you mature, you see that there are more shades of gray in this world than one would like to admit.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2013, 03:26:21 PM »
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Aren't you posting for self-serving reasons?  ::)

And by the way, I thought Gnosticism was in favor of self-knowledge, so why would that be a bad thing? What kind of Gnostic are you, anyway?  :police:

Are we not all here for self-serving reasons?

Yes Gnostics favor knowledge over blind faith and where did I say self-knowledge was a bad thing.
If you are going to distort or miss-represent then perhaps you should start to quote.

I call myself Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist. A seeker to you.

Regards
DL
See, this is funny because:
1. you have not shown that you have any more knowledge and any less blind faith than anyone else
2. your self classification as a Christian is based on the "Jesus you know" who apparently no one else does.
3. Your dogmatic arrogance against traditional Christian belief means if you are an ecumenist, you suck at it
4. if you are a seeker, we haven't seen any seeking being done on your part.  Only boasting.

You are esoteric though.  The group of people who understand what you are talking about is confined to a single individual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLG2jaVdUMo

Regards
DL

Oh cool, we can trade country music youtube videos.  My favorite pastime!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cc1G-k2V7Q
God bless!

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2013, 03:27:19 PM »
Yawn! Great I Am? Perhaps your choice of pseudonym says much more about you than anything else.

Yawn.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

In that case, what about we all act like great minds and start discussing what orthodox christians actually believe?

Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?

Regards
DL

A benefit, because it enables us to commune with God.

Are we done now?

Why, is normal civil discourse that painful for you?
 
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Is that Moral?

Regards
DL

No, but it is painful to keep talking to a person who never listens.

Does one love his father because of self-serving reasons? Some might, but I believe that most does so, exactly because he is their father.

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2013, 03:28:17 PM »

God is human. I agree. The real Gods have always been.

Why any human would kneel to an alien God is beyond me and that is why I ask----
 
Why do you worship the God you describe as alien?

"More than human" ≠ alien.

It is meet and right to worship our Creator.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2013, 03:35:35 PM »
I use a moral method to get my soul to heave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

How does one get his soul to heave?  I know I can stick fingers down my throat or drink some syrup of ipecac if I want my stomach to heave, but I'm unfamiliar with how a soul does this.  

Anyway, I'm three minutes into your video, and already I think the guy is full of it.  And that's not just because he thinks the "Church is full of baloney" or due to the monkeyesque arm movements which I haven't seen any lecturer worth his salt do while teaching.  He takes one statement of Jesus ("By myself I can do nothing") as if that trumps everything else.  Well, even if you dismiss the Church, you can't dismiss the book from which you learned about that statement.  There are others therein which are inconvenient for Mr Donohue's interpretation of this word.  What a surprise, a selective reading based on one's own presuppositions:  



Like I said, your Scripture would be nice.  Youtube isn't enough.  

You did not even get to the good part. It is a shame that your attention span is only 3 minutes.


Can you read scripture?

What does this one tell you.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

You asked how to get your soul to heaven.

Where do you think heaven is?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

What do you think that last one is telling you?

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2013, 03:39:35 PM »
How do we define "defect" and "benefit"? These are philosophical terms. To the empiricist, they don't exist. Science only tells you how things are. As to whether something is a "defect" or "benefit," that depends on who you ask. They are relative philosophical terms based off of the value and feelings we ascribe to certain realities of life.

I do not plan to re-write the dictionary and will go with Webster.

You can be as general as you like. I will follow I am sure.

Regards
DL

Well, my thoughts are that there really is no way to objectively say in either direction whether the desire to worship a God is a human "defect" or "benefit" because these are abstract, relative terms. There is no objective definition of "defect" or "benefit"--in fact, philosophers to this very day argue over what exactly the meaning is of these words.

And even if we DO happen to come up with a definition--for example, let's say that "benefit" is whatever brings us happiness and pleasure, and "defect" is whatever does not and/or prevents us from being happy or experiencing pleasure. How do we define happiness? It's anecdotal. Some people may very well be happy worshipping a God, whereas others may be repulsed by it. Not everyone is the same. Thus, I don't see how we could really definitively say whether worshipping a God is a benefit or defect, because all humans are different and may have different feelings and/or motives about their worship or lack of. I don't like umbrella statements; too right-winged. As you mature, you see that there are more shades of gray in this world than one would like to admit.

I am pleased that you have read the philosophers.

Some say that the end of a philosophical discussion ends with the definition of words and here you are at the beginning of one trying to define terms.

That usually indicate that we are so far apart in thinking that we would be wasting our time.

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2013, 03:40:37 PM »
On Matthew 6:22-23(St. Gregory Thaumaturgus)

Matthew 6:22-23 “The light of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be single, your whole body shall be full of light. But it your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!”

The single eye is the love unfeigned; for when the body is enlightened by it, it sets forth through the medium of the outer members only things which are perfectly correspondent with the inner thoughts. But the evil eye is the pretended love, which is also called hypocrisy, by which the whole body of the man is made darkness. We have to consider that deeds meet only for darkness may be within the man, while through the outer members he may produce words that seem to be of the light: for there are those who are in reality wolves, though they may be covered with sheep's clothing. Such are they who wash only the outside of the cup and platter, and do not understand that, unless the inside of these things is cleansed, the outside itself cannot be made pure. Wherefore, in manifest confutation of such persons, the Saviour says: “If the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!” That is to say, if the love which seems to you to be light is really a work meet for darkness, by reason of some hypocrisy concealed in you, what must be your patent transgressions!

God bless!

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2013, 03:42:16 PM »
Homily of St. John Chrysostom
John 14:23
“I and the Father will come unto him, and make Our abode with him.” All but saying, “As the Father reveals Himself, so also do I.” And not in this way only He removed the suspicion, but also by saying, “We will make Our abode with him,” a thing which does not belong to dreams. But observe, I pray you, the disciple confounded, and not daring to say plainly what he desired to say. For he said not, “Woe to us, that Thou diest, and will come to us as the dead come”; he spoke not thus; but, “How is it that You will show Yourself to us, and not unto the world?” Jesus then says, that “I accept you, because ye keep My commandments.” In order that they might not, when they should see Him afterwards, deem Him to be an apparition, therefore He says these things beforehand. And that they might not deem that He would appear to them so as I have said, He tells them also the reason, “Because ye keep My commandments”; He says that the Spirit also will appear in like manner. Now if after having companied with Him so long time, they cannot yet endure that Essence, or rather cannot even imagine It, what would have been their case had He appeared thus to them at the first? On this account also He ate with them, that the action might not seem to be an illusion. For if they thought this when they saw Him walking on the waters, although His wonted form was seen by them, and He was not far distant, what would they have imagined had they suddenly seen Him arisen whom they had seen taken and swathed? Wherefore He continually tells them that He will appear, and why He will appear, and how, that they may not suppose Him to be an apparition.

God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2013, 03:47:45 PM »


Why, is normal civil discourse that painful for you?
 
So you worship for self-serving reasons.

Is that Moral?

Regards
DL

No, but it is painful to keep talking to a person who never listens.

Does one love his father because of self-serving reasons? Some might, but I believe that most does so, exactly because he is their father.


[/quote]

What does love of a father have to do with God?

And yes it is self-serving and natural for humans to love their parents.

It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Regards
DL

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,795
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2013, 03:49:15 PM »
Please stop catering to him. He doesn't care, he just wants to do his snotty little outbursts. That's all he is, a goad.

Watch a weather report, it'll be much more useful.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Orthodox11

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #78 on: July 16, 2013, 03:49:28 PM »
Where all thee head of the Trinity killed?
If not, then there was no sacrifice.

The Word of God who took flesh and sacrificed Himself on the Cross was the same Word of God that created man from the dust, endowed him with free will, and commanded him not to eat of the fruit.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #79 on: July 16, 2013, 03:50:26 PM »

God is human. I agree. The real Gods have always been.

Why any human would kneel to an alien God is beyond me and that is why I ask----
 
Why do you worship the God you describe as alien?

"More than human" ≠ alien.

It is meet and right to worship our Creator.

Meet?

Why is it right if it is self-serving?

Regards
DL

Offline theistgal

  • Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,240
  • don't even go there!
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #80 on: July 16, 2013, 03:51:32 PM »
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Technically, since we believe the Son was also God, it would be suicide, not genocide.

Not that we believe either one. But you know, if you're going to insult people you don't know, you should strive for accuracy.  8)
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #81 on: July 16, 2013, 03:54:43 PM »
On Matthew 6:22-23(St. Gregory Thaumaturgus)

Matthew 6:22-23 “The light of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be single, your whole body shall be full of light. But it your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!”

The single eye is the love unfeigned; for when the body is enlightened by it, it sets forth through the medium of the outer members only things which are perfectly correspondent with the inner thoughts. But the evil eye is the pretended love, which is also called hypocrisy, by which the whole body of the man is made darkness. We have to consider that deeds meet only for darkness may be within the man, while through the outer members he may produce words that seem to be of the light: for there are those who are in reality wolves, though they may be covered with sheep's clothing. Such are they who wash only the outside of the cup and platter, and do not understand that, unless the inside of these things is cleansed, the outside itself cannot be made pure. Wherefore, in manifest confutation of such persons, the Saviour says: “If the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!” That is to say, if the love which seems to you to be light is really a work meet for darkness, by reason of some hypocrisy concealed in you, what must be your patent transgressions!



Thanks for the paste job.

What does that quote along with the others mean to you?

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #82 on: July 16, 2013, 03:56:56 PM »
How do we define "defect" and "benefit"? These are philosophical terms. To the empiricist, they don't exist. Science only tells you how things are. As to whether something is a "defect" or "benefit," that depends on who you ask. They are relative philosophical terms based off of the value and feelings we ascribe to certain realities of life.

I do not plan to re-write the dictionary and will go with Webster.

You can be as general as you like. I will follow I am sure.

Regards
DL

Well, my thoughts are that there really is no way to objectively say in either direction whether the desire to worship a God is a human "defect" or "benefit" because these are abstract, relative terms. There is no objective definition of "defect" or "benefit"--in fact, philosophers to this very day argue over what exactly the meaning is of these words.

And even if we DO happen to come up with a definition--for example, let's say that "benefit" is whatever brings us happiness and pleasure, and "defect" is whatever does not and/or prevents us from being happy or experiencing pleasure. How do we define happiness? It's anecdotal. Some people may very well be happy worshipping a God, whereas others may be repulsed by it. Not everyone is the same. Thus, I don't see how we could really definitively say whether worshipping a God is a benefit or defect, because all humans are different and may have different feelings and/or motives about their worship or lack of. I don't like umbrella statements; too right-winged. As you mature, you see that there are more shades of gray in this world than one would like to admit.

I am pleased that you have read the philosophers.

Some say that the end of a philosophical discussion ends with the definition of words and here you are at the beginning of one trying to define terms.

That usually indicate that we are so far apart in thinking that we would be wasting our time.

Regards
DL

BWAHAHAHA!!!

The one guy who actually decides to take him seriously and answer his question, he responds by saying that they are so far apart that it would be wasting time to continue the conversation.

Greatest I am is my new favorite forumer.

God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #83 on: July 16, 2013, 03:58:32 PM »
Please stop catering to him. He doesn't care, he just wants to do his snotty little outbursts. That's all he is, a goad.

Watch a weather report, it'll be much more useful.

You are the only one doing snotty little outbursts my thought police friend.
Quite pathetic to see really.

Are you that afraid to look at what you believe even as scriptures tell you to test all things.

At least your mods know how to run a board.
 
Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #84 on: July 16, 2013, 03:58:46 PM »
Quote
What does love of a father have to do with God?

God is our father.

Quote
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Actually, it is. Science has shown us, that humans are born with a belief in the divine.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #85 on: July 16, 2013, 03:59:02 PM »
On Matthew 6:22-23(St. Gregory Thaumaturgus)

Matthew 6:22-23 “The light of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be single, your whole body shall be full of light. But it your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!”

The single eye is the love unfeigned; for when the body is enlightened by it, it sets forth through the medium of the outer members only things which are perfectly correspondent with the inner thoughts. But the evil eye is the pretended love, which is also called hypocrisy, by which the whole body of the man is made darkness. We have to consider that deeds meet only for darkness may be within the man, while through the outer members he may produce words that seem to be of the light: for there are those who are in reality wolves, though they may be covered with sheep's clothing. Such are they who wash only the outside of the cup and platter, and do not understand that, unless the inside of these things is cleansed, the outside itself cannot be made pure. Wherefore, in manifest confutation of such persons, the Saviour says: “If the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!” That is to say, if the love which seems to you to be light is really a work meet for darkness, by reason of some hypocrisy concealed in you, what must be your patent transgressions!



Thanks for the paste job.

What does that quote along with the others mean to you?

Regards
DL
Oh, I'm sorry, my bad. I figured since all your explanations of your beliefs came through youtube videos, I would share something that, you know, could actually be read.
God bless!

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,099
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #86 on: July 16, 2013, 04:03:23 PM »
Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

I don't have one.. so...  :)

Do you seek God or are you an atheist?
I am not an atheist but I get along with about 95% of them.

Do you recognize a spiritual side to your consciousness or being?

It was mostly a semantic thing. I don't have a need, but more like a want, and it is not to adore God, but simply to have a strong faith in him. As to whether that's a benefit or defect, I would generally say a benefit. But some days are worse than others  ;D

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #87 on: July 16, 2013, 04:04:34 PM »
Where all thee head of the Trinity killed?
If not, then there was no sacrifice.

The Word of God who took flesh and sacrificed Himself on the Cross was the same Word of God that created man from the dust, endowed him with free will, and commanded him not to eat of the fruit.

Ah yes. The one that murdered A & E by neglect and forcibly keeping them from what would keep them alive. The tree of life.

Christianity would have been brighter to stick with the original Jewish take of that myth.

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

Christian can never explain what is wrong with mankind having their eyes opened and gaining God's moral sense.

They seem to prefer us in ignorant bliss and blind. Dumb as heel that.

I guess that is what happens to good myths when another religion plagiarizes them.

Regards
DL

Offline J Michael

  • Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,549
  • Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!
  • Faith: Cafeteria CHRISTIAN Heretic
  • Jurisdiction: Here and now (well...sometimes...)
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #88 on: July 16, 2013, 04:05:55 PM »
Did I really just spend 10 minutes reading this thread??  Why?


Regards,
JM
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #89 on: July 16, 2013, 04:06:28 PM »
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Technically, since we believe the Son was also God, it would be suicide, not genocide.

Not that we believe either one. But you know, if you're going to insult people you don't know, you should strive for accuracy.  8)

Who did I insult?

How?

Regards
DL

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2013, 04:08:47 PM »
Meet?

Why is it right if it is self-serving?

"Meet and right" = axion kai dikaion = dignum et iustum. Orthodox talk...

It is your postulate that "self-serving" is always wrong, as "self-loathing" surely is. Is "love thy neighbour as thyself" not Gnostic Scripture?


 

 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 04:39:30 PM by Romaios »

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2013, 04:09:42 PM »
Quote
What does love of a father have to do with God?

God is our father.

Quote
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Actually, it is. Science has shown us, that humans are born with a belief in the divine.

Oh my. And here my mother thought that my father was my father.

Does you father know you have disowned him?

As to you last. A link would be required.

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2013, 04:09:57 PM »
Where all thee head of the Trinity killed?
If not, then there was no sacrifice.

The Word of God who took flesh and sacrificed Himself on the Cross was the same Word of God that created man from the dust, endowed him with free will, and commanded him not to eat of the fruit.

Ah yes. The one that murdered A & E by neglect and forcibly keeping them from what would keep them alive. The tree of life.

Christianity would have been brighter to stick with the original Jewish take of that myth.

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

Christian can never explain what is wrong with mankind having their eyes opened and gaining God's moral sense.

They seem to prefer us in ignorant bliss and blind. Dumb as heel that.

I guess that is what happens to good myths when another religion plagiarizes them.

Regards
DL

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18)
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2013, 04:10:56 PM »
You did not even get to the good part. It is a shame that your attention span is only 3 minutes.

It's at least as shameful as your reading comprehension.  I didn't say I stopped listening after three minutes, only that three minutes was enough to know the guy was full of it.  After listening to the whole video, I can't say that "the good part" was very convincing.  It seems like the guy took some modern scientific understandings of the brain and various ideas taken from "Eastern" religions like Hinduism (almost always the esoteric, philosophical stuff popular among "liberated" Westerners, never the stuff actual Hindus believe and practice) and mixed them with some gnostic stuff and applied all this to select passages of Scripture.  

Quote
Can you read scripture?

Enough to know that the interpretation of Israel as a combination of Isis, Ra, and El is bull on its face.  That would be Isisrael, unless there's some mystical reason (detailed in another video) why the last "is" is dropped, or why this depends on English versions of Hebrew and Egyptian terms.  If you can read some of the original languages, as I and many others here can, you don't get easily fooled by such things.  For others, there is dependable scholarship.  Again, not Youtube.    

Quote
What does this one tell you.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Something like Mt. 5.8

Quote
You asked how to get your soul to heaven.

No, I asked about heaving, since that's the word you used.  Based on your response, I suppose it was just your typo.  Be careful with those...people make huge mistakes based on simple errors.  

Quote
Where do you think heaven is?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

What do you think that last one is telling you?

I don't have a problem with either of those passages.  

What do you think the "kingdom of God" is?  
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2013, 04:13:05 PM »
Quote
What does love of a father have to do with God?

God is our father.

Quote
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Actually, it is. Science has shown us, that humans are born with a belief in the divine.


Oh my. And here my mother thought that my father was my father.

Does you father know you have disowned him?

As to you last. A link would be required.

Regards
DL


I think you should try and re-read scripture.

As for your request:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3512686/Children-are-born-believers-in-God-academic-claims.html
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2013, 04:14:15 PM »
Is your need to adore a God a defect or benefit?

I don't have one.. so...  :)

Do you seek God or are you an atheist?
I am not an atheist but I get along with about 95% of them.

Do you recognize a spiritual side to your consciousness or being?

It was mostly a semantic thing. I don't have a need, but more like a want, and it is not to adore God, but simply to have a strong faith in him. As to whether that's a benefit or defect, I would generally say a benefit. But some days are worse than others  ;D

Faith is belief without anything concrete to look to.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

FMPOV, faith without facts is for fools.

If you wish belief in something real without the need for faith then------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2013, 04:17:52 PM »
Quote
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther

You post statements as if they were truths.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2013, 04:18:32 PM »
Thanks for the paste job.

What does that quote along with the others mean to you?

Regards
DL
Oh, I'm sorry, my bad. I figured since all your explanations of your beliefs came through youtube videos, I would share something that, you know, could actually be read.

Silly St Gregory...he should've made a video.  People don't have the attention span to read...their attention spans are and should necessarily be dedicated to the internet.  
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2013, 04:19:19 PM »
Meet?

Why is it right if it is self-serving?

"Meet and right" = axion kai dikaion = dignum and iustum. Orthodox talk...

It is your postulate that "self-serving" is always wrong, as "self-loathing" surely is. Is "love thy neighbour as thyself" not Gnostic Scripture?



I did not postulate anything. I asked a question and above I wrote that self-serving was natural between a child and parent. That does not apply to a God and thus I wanted clarification.

You did not provide it.

Some deserve love and some hate.
Or are you saying that those that God hates he is wrong for hating?

Regards
DL


Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,099
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2013, 04:22:49 PM »
Faith is belief without anything concrete to look to.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

FMPOV, faith without facts is for fools.

If you wish belief in something real without the need for faith then------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

I'm a skeptic, and think assumptions are all-pervasive. That means faith is as well. You can't walk out your front door without assuming certain things--taking certain things on faith. Some people say they don't have faith in such circumstances, that they base their assumptions on experience or fact. That's really just a semantic ploy. Any real faith is not blind, but based on experience and evidence. I agree that "faith without facts is for fools." I think the advice that some people give to "just have faith" is one of the worst things a person can say to another person. Faith is "assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." But I assure you that I have a reason to hope, and evidence that the person not seen is indeed there. I just wish sometimes (ok... all the time) that the reason and evidence were stronger.

Offline Ansgar

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,060
  • Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2013, 04:26:26 PM »
Faith is belief without anything concrete to look to.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

FMPOV, faith without facts is for fools.

If you wish belief in something real without the need for faith then------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

I'm a skeptic, and think assumptions are all-pervasive. That means faith is as well. You can't walk out your front door without assuming certain things--taking certain things on faith. Some people say they don't have faith in such circumstances, that they base their assumptions on experience or fact. That's really just a semantic ploy. Any real faith is not blind, but based on experience and evidence. I agree that "faith without facts is for fools." I think the advice that some people give to "just have faith" is one of the worst things a person can say to another person. Faith is "assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." But I assure you that I have a reason to hope, and evidence that the person not seen is indeed there. I just wish sometimes (ok... all the time) that the reason and evidence were stronger.

This is very good.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2013, 04:27:24 PM »
I did not postulate anything. I asked a question and above I wrote that self-serving was natural between a child and parent. That does not apply to a God and thus I wanted clarification.

You did not provide it.

No prayer's more natural than "Our Father in heaven", don't you think?

Some deserve love and some hate.
Or are you saying that those that God hates he is wrong for hating?

God does not deal with us according to our merits. His mercy outweighs His justice, as well as our "merits".

Offline Marc1152

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 14,838
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2013, 04:29:02 PM »
Let us pray:

"o Lord, please give me back the 10 minutes I just spent reading this thread"

Amen
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2013, 04:29:38 PM »
Where all thee head of the Trinity killed?
If not, then there was no sacrifice.

The Word of God who took flesh and sacrificed Himself on the Cross was the same Word of God that created man from the dust, endowed him with free will, and commanded him not to eat of the fruit.

Ah yes. The one that murdered A & E by neglect and forcibly keeping them from what would keep them alive. The tree of life.

Christianity would have been brighter to stick with the original Jewish take of that myth.

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

Christian can never explain what is wrong with mankind having their eyes opened and gaining God's moral sense.

They seem to prefer us in ignorant bliss and blind. Dumb as heel that.

I guess that is what happens to good myths when another religion plagiarizes them.

Regards
DL

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18)

Absolutely. And immoral as well. You have to perturb your soul by embracing barbaric and immoral human sacrifice. Take that concept past Satan to get to the power and majesty of God.

Remember that in the Moses myth, esoterically speaking, he had to get past the burning bush which is Satan.
God dwells behind his most trusted angel. That is why Satan is allowed freedom otherwise God would be seen as unjust. Justice delayed is justice denied. Right?

Think Kundalini.

Regards
DL

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2013, 04:35:38 PM »
Remember that in the Moses myth, esoterically speaking, he had to get past the burning bush which is Satan.
God dwells behind his most trusted angel. 

Right?

Wrong. Meetly and rightly speaking the Burning Bush is the all-holy Theotokos: God dwells in his most humble handmaid.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 04:36:31 PM by Romaios »

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2013, 04:37:43 PM »
You did not even get to the good part. It is a shame that your attention span is only 3 minutes.

It's at least as shameful as your reading comprehension.  I didn't say I stopped listening after three minutes, only that three minutes was enough to know the guy was full of it.  After listening to the whole video, I can't say that "the good part" was very convincing.  It seems like the guy took some modern scientific understandings of the brain and various ideas taken from "Eastern" religions like Hinduism (almost always the esoteric, philosophical stuff popular among "liberated" Westerners, never the stuff actual Hindus believe and practice) and mixed them with some gnostic stuff and applied all this to select passages of Scripture.  

Quote
Can you read scripture?

Enough to know that the interpretation of Israel as a combination of Isis, Ra, and El is bull on its face.  That would be Isisrael, unless there's some mystical reason (detailed in another video) why the last "is" is dropped, or why this depends on English versions of Hebrew and Egyptian terms.  If you can read some of the original languages, as I and many others here can, you don't get easily fooled by such things.  For others, there is dependable scholarship.  Again, not Youtube.    

Quote
What does this one tell you.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Something like Mt. 5.8

Quote
You asked how to get your soul to heaven.

No, I asked about heaving, since that's the word you used.  Based on your response, I suppose it was just your typo.  Be careful with those...people make huge mistakes based on simple errors.  

Quote
Where do you think heaven is?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

What do you think that last one is telling you?

I don't have a problem with either of those passages.  

What do you think the "kingdom of God" is?  

The light within me when I activate it just as Jesus says it is. A realm of nothing but though. A cosmic consciousness.

Light may be seen as enlightenment because in reality, that place is not bright at all.

This is it for me today. Duty calls.

Regards
DL

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #106 on: July 16, 2013, 04:44:52 PM »
The light within me when I activate it just as Jesus says it is. A realm of nothing but though. A cosmic consciousness.

Light may be seen as enlightenment because in reality, that place is not bright at all.

This is it for me today. Duty calls.

How convenient. 

Where does Jesus say that the light you activate within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)...A cosmic consciousness"?  Nothing you quoted from his words in the Gospels is nearly that esoteric.   
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Santagranddad

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,198
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2013, 04:45:36 PM »
No point in responding to this one, methinks my time better devoted to cutting my toenails.....

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #108 on: July 16, 2013, 04:46:33 PM »
Think Kundalini.


More like kundi.  Look it up, both are in the same basic region.  
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline J Michael

  • Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,549
  • Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!
  • Faith: Cafeteria CHRISTIAN Heretic
  • Jurisdiction: Here and now (well...sometimes...)
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #109 on: July 16, 2013, 04:47:53 PM »
No point in responding to this one, methinks my time better devoted to cutting my toenails.....

TheTri and I (hey, that has a nice ring to it  ;D) have some great recipes for toenails.  He's a little stingy with his, though...family "secrets"( ::)) and all that. ;D
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Santagranddad

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,198
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #110 on: July 16, 2013, 05:04:47 PM »
No point in responding to this one, methinks my time better devoted to cutting my toenails.....

TheTri and I (hey, that has a nice ring to it  ;D) have some great recipes for toenails.  He's a little stingy with his, though...family "secrets"( ::)) and all that. ;D

Please don't make me laugh, my sides are still hurting from earlier....

Offline Orthodox11

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2013, 05:41:06 PM »
Christian can never explain what is wrong with mankind having their eyes opened and gaining God's moral sense.

They seem to prefer us in ignorant bliss and blind. Dumb as heel that.

I guess that is what happens to good myths when another religion plagiarizes them.

You cite the Jewish take on the 'myth' without seeming to know the Christian take on it.

The command to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not a permanent commandment. Adam was created in a state of spiritual infancy, and was created to gradually progress toward spiritual maturity. The sin in eating from the tree was the attempt to do so without God (an impossibility, of course, which is why eating from the tree did not actually benefit man once he had done so). Rather than desiring us to remain "in ignorant bliss and blind," God desires us to become like Him by grace - this is what we call theosis, and what the Orthodox Church regards as the very purpose of human existence - through union with Him. The essence of Satanic deception was the lie the serpent told Eve in Paradise, namely that this could be achieved by man's own effort, outside of this divine union (essentially what you seem to subscribe to). Of course, separation from God, who is life, does not lead to theosis but to death...from which Christ lovingly came to rescue us from by assuming that same death and destroying it's binding power by uniting His divine nature with our humanity.

So you couldn't really be more wrong.

Offline theistgal

  • Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,240
  • don't even go there!
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2013, 05:44:46 PM »
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Technically, since we believe the Son was also God, it would be suicide, not genocide.

Not that we believe either one. But you know, if you're going to insult people you don't know, you should strive for accuracy.  8)

Who did I insult?

How?

Regards
DL

Everyone who responded to you, by your responses.
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2013, 07:26:26 PM »
Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

In the story od David and Bathsheba, they sinned yet God punished their child.
Do you prefer God's method of torture for 7 days before the killing?

At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Would you prefer living by God's barbaric laws?
Are you ready to pick up stones to stone unruly children or people wearing two different clots?


Regards
DL
Rape, torture and slavery?  What are you talking about?

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,099
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #114 on: July 16, 2013, 07:29:06 PM »
At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI


That was a decent movie, too bad there's only a 10 minute clip there. Have you seen the end of it, btw? The ending might surprise you if you are going only by that clip taken out of context...
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 07:29:25 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #115 on: July 16, 2013, 07:29:44 PM »
You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Your point?

Regards
DL
You should fix yourself. There is one God and many false gods.

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,099
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #116 on: July 16, 2013, 07:30:36 PM »
At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI


That was a decent movie, too bad there's only a 10 minute clip there. Have you seen the end of it, btw? The ending might surprise you if you are going only by that clip taken out of context...

The full movie: God on Trial

And a shortcut to the end.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 07:32:28 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #117 on: July 16, 2013, 07:31:54 PM »


You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.


That certainly is an opinion, even if its incorrect.  Tell me, just how is it you can dictate how, what and the reasoning of God?

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #118 on: July 16, 2013, 07:35:17 PM »
The question is based on a false premise, I believe. Just as God gave us His Only Son out of love and I believe He is loved neither out of some mechanical need or defect. If there is a defect anywhere maybe it is the inability or unwillingness to grasp this.

Gave us Jesus out of love. How droll.

 It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related


Tell us all my friend.

If you had God's powers and decided a barbaric human sacrifice was needed, would you do the right thing and step up to your own requirements or would you send your child?

Should sons bury fathers or should fathers bury sons.

You do not like your answers. Right?

That is why I do not like your God.

Regards
DL

It's a good thing the world has you to clarify how insane God is.

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #119 on: July 16, 2013, 07:38:10 PM »
Quote
Why then, if you are a believer, do you need or want to worship a God if not for the reward you think it will bring you?

It is called love. Just as you show respect to your parents, not because it will directly benefit you, but because you love and respect them.

Indeed as they show their love as Jesus suggests it be done with works and deeds.

Most parents are not genocidal Gods and deserve more respect that that God.

Love, to be true love must have reciprocity. to be true love.

What has God done for anyone that where we can know without a doubt that he did it?

Not a thing.
But we do know that the bible says that the vast majority of us are bound for hell so how exactly do you equate that with a loving God?

Regards
DL

 

How often are the actions of a parent not "cruel" in the eyes of a child?

Your understanding of God seems extremely biased. No one is "bound" to Hell. We are Orthodox, we don't believe in pre-destination.

Then you are Universalists. Sweet.

Regards
DL
:o

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #120 on: July 16, 2013, 07:46:38 PM »
Quote
What does love of a father have to do with God?

God is our father.

Quote
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Actually, it is. Science has shown us, that humans are born with a belief in the divine.

Oh my. And here my mother thought that my father was my father.

Does you father know you have disowned him?

As to you last. A link would be required.

Regards
DL

That...didn't...even make sense.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #121 on: July 16, 2013, 07:52:44 PM »
I usually disagree with Kerdy on most things, but this is one of those threads that I appreciate his bluntness and unevasive approach to the nonsense that spews forth.  ;D
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2013, 08:14:39 PM »
Quote
What does love of a father have to do with God?

God is our father.

Quote
It is not natural to love or adore what scriptures show to be a genocidal God who even had his son needlessly murdered.

Actually, it is. Science has shown us, that humans are born with a belief in the divine.


Oh my. And here my mother thought that my father was my father.

Does you father know you have disowned him?

As to you last. A link would be required.

Regards
DL


I think you should try and re-read scripture.

As for your request:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3512686/Children-are-born-believers-in-God-academic-claims.html

Thanks for this.

I looked for a peer reviewed report but could not find one.

My only comment is that all other things in a child life have a purpose and it is not that surprising that they would think that all things have a purpose. The is a far cry from thinking that a miracle working absentee God did and that he must be obeyed or he will punish you forever.

If that felling went deeper in children, one would think that all would know that there is only one God and that as adults, all you believers would not be at each others throats.

In a way, his report makes all believers look rather retarded for not getting along.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #123 on: July 16, 2013, 08:17:50 PM »
Quote
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther

You post statements as if they were truths.

The quotes are authentic and given to show how twisted some Church leaders are.

Are you married?

Show this one to your wife and ask he what she thinks.

“If a woman grows weary and, at last, dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die from bearing - she is there to do it.”
- Martin Luther

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #124 on: July 16, 2013, 08:20:14 PM »
Martin who?
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #125 on: July 16, 2013, 08:31:41 PM »
Faith is belief without anything concrete to look to.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

FMPOV, faith without facts is for fools.

If you wish belief in something real without the need for faith then------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

I'm a skeptic, and think assumptions are all-pervasive. That means faith is as well. You can't walk out your front door without assuming certain things--taking certain things on faith. Some people say they don't have faith in such circumstances, that they base their assumptions on experience or fact. That's really just a semantic ploy. Any real faith is not blind, but based on experience and evidence. I agree that "faith without facts is for fools." I think the advice that some people give to "just have faith" is one of the worst things a person can say to another person. Faith is "assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." But I assure you that I have a reason to hope, and evidence that the person not seen is indeed there. I just wish sometimes (ok... all the time) that the reason and evidence were stronger.

I am between a rock and a hard place. I went from skeptic/atheist looking for facts to Gnostic Christian after suffering the pain and pleasure of apotheosis.

There are some things out there that one could call evidence but it is hard to spot and only shows half the story.

Let me give you a thinking experiment. Some people see it, some don't.

I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.

When this was written, most thought it to just be a cynical view of life but I think it is quite true and irrefutable, based on the anthropic principle and pure logic.

What do you think?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPClzIsYxvA

This is done by nature and not a God but would be a requirement of a God if he were real.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2013, 08:37:27 PM »
I did not postulate anything. I asked a question and above I wrote that self-serving was natural between a child and parent. That does not apply to a God and thus I wanted clarification.

You did not provide it.

No prayer's more natural than "Our Father in heaven", don't you think?

Some deserve love and some hate.
Or are you saying that those that God hates he is wrong for hating?

God does not deal with us according to our merits. His mercy outweighs His justice, as well as our "merits".

Sure. He showed that mercy to A & E the first time they did their will and not his. He murdered them by neglect and keeping them from what would keep them alive.

Today, any judge would slide his immoral ass into a jail cell and he would be well justified.

Or do you think that was anything other than murder?

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #127 on: July 16, 2013, 08:38:46 PM »
Quote
I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.
To say that God evolves or changes means that there are limitations to this God.  I would say that perhaps men's understanding of God evolves, but for God Himself to evolve, you remove a basic essence of who God is, the Unmoved Mover, in the words of Aristotle.
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2013, 08:40:15 PM »
Remember that in the Moses myth, esoterically speaking, he had to get past the burning bush which is Satan.
God dwells behind his most trusted angel.  

Right?

Wrong. Meetly and rightly speaking the Burning Bush is the all-holy Theotokos: God dwells in his most humble handmaid.

Earth - water - air - fire - Godhead.

Think Kundalini. Better still. Think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUV_Xtzz3CQ

Regards
DL
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 08:41:43 PM by Greatest I am »

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2013, 08:43:59 PM »
I did not postulate anything. I asked a question and above I wrote that self-serving was natural between a child and parent. That does not apply to a God and thus I wanted clarification.

You did not provide it.

No prayer's more natural than "Our Father in heaven", don't you think?

Some deserve love and some hate.
Or are you saying that those that God hates he is wrong for hating?

God does not deal with us according to our merits. His mercy outweighs His justice, as well as our "merits".

Sure. He showed that mercy to A & E the first time they did their will and not his. He murdered them by neglect and keeping them from what would keep them alive.

Today, any judge would slide his immoral ass into a jail cell and he would be well justified.

Or do you think that was anything other than murder?

Regards
DL

It is comments like these that demonstrate you don't really have any understanding of Orthodox teachings.  If you want to criticize Scripture based on outright literal interpretations, perhaps your time would be better spent at the Fundamentalist Christian forums here: http://www.christianforums.com/f370/ You will at least be speaking the same language as them.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 08:44:48 PM by TheTrisagion »
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #130 on: July 16, 2013, 08:46:38 PM »
The light within me when I activate it just as Jesus says it is. A realm of nothing but though. A cosmic consciousness.

Light may be seen as enlightenment because in reality, that place is not bright at all.

This is it for me today. Duty calls.

How convenient. 

Where does Jesus say that the light you activate within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)...A cosmic consciousness"?  Nothing you quoted from his words in the Gospels is nearly that esoteric.   

Now I get hell for visiting one of my sons in the hospital.

A good way to draw me to your religion.

Listen. Learn. If you are capable. It is all from Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL


Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #131 on: July 16, 2013, 08:55:34 PM »
Christian can never explain what is wrong with mankind having their eyes opened and gaining God's moral sense.

They seem to prefer us in ignorant bliss and blind. Dumb as heel that.

I guess that is what happens to good myths when another religion plagiarizes them.

You cite the Jewish take on the 'myth' without seeming to know the Christian take on it.

The command to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not a permanent commandment. Adam was created in a state of spiritual infancy, and was created to gradually progress toward spiritual maturity. The sin in eating from the tree was the attempt to do so without God (an impossibility, of course, which is why eating from the tree did not actually benefit man once he had done so). Rather than desiring us to remain "in ignorant bliss and blind," God desires us to become like Him by grace - this is what we call theosis, and what the Orthodox Church regards as the very purpose of human existence - through union with Him. The essence of Satanic deception was the lie the serpent told Eve in Paradise, namely that this could be achieved by man's own effort, outside of this divine union (essentially what you seem to subscribe to). Of course, separation from God, who is life, does not lead to theosis but to death...from which Christ lovingly came to rescue us from by assuming that same death and destroying it's binding power by uniting His divine nature with our humanity.

So you couldn't really be more wrong.

You have added quite a bit to the story and scriptures tell you not to do so.

You said that A & E were not ready for theosis but God disagrees with you.

Gen 3;22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Jews were right and Eden was man's elevation according to God's own words. Suck it up an stop making up your own story of Eden.

That or start an O P on it and I will pin your ears back one quote at a time.

Regards
DL
 

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2013, 08:58:00 PM »
Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

In the story od David and Bathsheba, they sinned yet God punished their child.
Do you prefer God's method of torture for 7 days before the killing?

At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Would you prefer living by God's barbaric laws?
Are you ready to pick up stones to stone unruly children or people wearing two different clots?


Regards
DL
Rape, torture and slavery?  What are you talking about?

Punch those word and bible into google and read.

I see that you are not upset with God torturing a child for 7 days before killing it.

Nice morals pal.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #133 on: July 16, 2013, 09:03:04 PM »
At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI


That was a decent movie, too bad there's only a 10 minute clip there. Have you seen the end of it, btw? The ending might surprise you if you are going only by that clip taken out of context...

I have seen it all and it is on the net for all to see.

I was surprised a bit on the ending but as a Gnostic Christian, I promote spiritual seeking and have no problem with their stance.

I have spoken to many Jews and most seem brighter than the average Christian.

The more literal or fundamental believers are, from any religion, the less they seem able to think for themselves.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #134 on: July 16, 2013, 09:06:45 PM »
You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Your point?

Regards
DL
You should fix yourself. There is one God and many false gods.

If God did not want false Gods then he would not sin by lying to prophets now would he.

Care to tell us why he would do such a thing?

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
Thessalonians 2:11

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

Regards
DL

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #135 on: July 16, 2013, 09:14:41 PM »
Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

In the story od David and Bathsheba, they sinned yet God punished their child.
Do you prefer God's method of torture for 7 days before the killing?

At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Would you prefer living by God's barbaric laws?
Are you ready to pick up stones to stone unruly children or people wearing two different clots?


Regards
DL
Rape, torture and slavery?  What are you talking about?

Punch those word and bible into google and read.

I see that you are not upset with God torturing a child for 7 days before killing it.

Nice morals pal.

Regards
DL
You have no idea what you are talking about.  Nice way of looking at things with an extremely narrow and personal view of what you want things to be instead of how they are.  You have come to the wrong corner of the Internet universe to attempt slander against Orthodoxy. 

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #136 on: July 16, 2013, 09:16:08 PM »
You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Your point?

Regards
DL
You should fix yourself. There is one God and many false gods.

If God did not want false Gods then he would not sin by lying to prophets now would he.

Care to tell us why he would do such a thing?

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
Thessalonians 2:11

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

Regards
DL
What bothers me are the lies you spread.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #137 on: July 16, 2013, 09:17:57 PM »
At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI


That was a decent movie, too bad there's only a 10 minute clip there. Have you seen the end of it, btw? The ending might surprise you if you are going only by that clip taken out of context...

I have seen it all and it is on the net for all to see.

I was surprised a bit on the ending but as a Gnostic Christian, I promote spiritual seeking and have no problem with their stance.

I have spoken to many Jews and most seem brighter than the average Christian.

The more literal or fundamental believers are, from any religion, the less they seem able to think for themselves.

Regards
DL
The irony is, you interpret Scripture exactly how fundamentalist protestants do.

As an FYI, your post walk dangerously close to proselytizing which is banned as per forum rules.  Wouldn't want you to get whapped with the ban stick.  ;)
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #138 on: July 16, 2013, 09:19:01 PM »


You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.


That certainly is an opinion, even if its incorrect.  Tell me, just how is it you can dictate how, what and the reasoning of God?

I expect a God to take the moral high ground. Don't you?

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.

Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice.
God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard.
 
The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.


To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple question for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?

This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because you think God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #139 on: July 16, 2013, 09:21:18 PM »
The question is based on a false premise, I believe. Just as God gave us His Only Son out of love and I believe He is loved neither out of some mechanical need or defect. If there is a defect anywhere maybe it is the inability or unwillingness to grasp this.

Gave us Jesus out of love. How droll.

 It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related


Tell us all my friend.

If you had God's powers and decided a barbaric human sacrifice was needed, would you do the right thing and step up to your own requirements or would you send your child?

Should sons bury fathers or should fathers bury sons.

You do not like your answers. Right?

That is why I do not like your God.

Regards
DL

It's a good thing the world has you to clarify how insane God is.

You agree and that is why you do not like your own answers to the simple questions I pose and you refuse to answer.

Regards
DL

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #140 on: July 16, 2013, 09:22:34 PM »


You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.


That certainly is an opinion, even if its incorrect.  Tell me, just how is it you can dictate how, what and the reasoning of God?

I expect a God to take the moral high ground. Don't you?

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.

Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice.
God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard.
 
The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.


To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple question for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?

This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because you think God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.

Regards
DL

When you are interested in learning about Orthodoxy, let me know.  Until then, I'll pass on the spreading of your version of Gnosticism, which we know as a heretical religion.

Offline theistgal

  • Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,240
  • don't even go there!
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #141 on: July 16, 2013, 09:22:50 PM »
The light within me when I activate it just as Jesus says it is. A realm of nothing but though. A cosmic consciousness.

Light may be seen as enlightenment because in reality, that place is not bright at all.

This is it for me today. Duty calls.

How convenient. 

Where does Jesus say that the light you activate within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)...A cosmic consciousness"?  Nothing you quoted from his words in the Gospels is nearly that esoteric.   

Now I get hell for visiting one of my sons in the hospital.

A good way to draw me to your religion.

Listen. Learn. If you are capable. It is all from Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

Oh, boo hoo. Where did anyone here "give you hell for visiting one of your own sons in the hospital"?  >:(
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #142 on: July 16, 2013, 09:23:18 PM »
I usually disagree with Kerdy on most things, but this is one of those threads that I appreciate his bluntness and unevasive approach to the nonsense that spews forth.  ;D

But like him, I do not see you answering simple questions because they show God's true colors and morals.

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #143 on: July 16, 2013, 09:23:28 PM »


You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.


That certainly is an opinion, even if its incorrect.  Tell me, just how is it you can dictate how, what and the reasoning of God?

I expect a God to take the moral high ground. Don't you?

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.

Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice.
God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard.
 
The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.


To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple question for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?

This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because you think God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.

Regards
DL


1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years? - Orthodoxy does not teach this

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs? - Orthodoxy does not teach this.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result? - Orthodoxy does not teach this.

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose? - Since none of your premises are taught by Orthodoxy, this question is moot.
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #145 on: July 16, 2013, 09:25:30 PM »
I usually disagree with Kerdy on most things, but this is one of those threads that I appreciate his bluntness and unevasive approach to the nonsense that spews forth.  ;D

But like him, I do not see you answering simple questions because they show God's true colors and morals.

Regards
DL
I really can't answer your questions because they aren't what we believe.  It is like me stating the grass is green and you countering by arguing that a Ford F-150 is a better truck than a Dodge Ram.  Your questions have nothing to do with our faith.
God bless!

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #146 on: July 16, 2013, 09:26:54 PM »
Martin who?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04

Regards
DL
As I said, who?  He was not Orthodox. In the event that you haven't noticed you are on orthodoxchristianity.net, not lutheranchristianity.net
God bless!

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #147 on: July 16, 2013, 09:31:00 PM »
Quote
I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.
To say that God evolves or changes means that there are limitations to this God.  I would say that perhaps men's understanding of God evolves, but for God Himself to evolve, you remove a basic essence of who God is, the Unmoved Mover, in the words of Aristotle.

Your God had to break his own commandment of coveting another man's woman to reproduce and then became a deadbeat dad and shunned his reproductive responsibility. Quite immoral that.

This shows definitively that God has limits. He cannot reproduce true.

Refute that if you can.

Then again, you guys do not seem refute much of anything. You just deny like children.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #148 on: July 16, 2013, 09:35:48 PM »
I did not postulate anything. I asked a question and above I wrote that self-serving was natural between a child and parent. That does not apply to a God and thus I wanted clarification.

You did not provide it.

No prayer's more natural than "Our Father in heaven", don't you think?

Some deserve love and some hate.
Or are you saying that those that God hates he is wrong for hating?

God does not deal with us according to our merits. His mercy outweighs His justice, as well as our "merits".

Sure. He showed that mercy to A & E the first time they did their will and not his. He murdered them by neglect and keeping them from what would keep them alive.

Today, any judge would slide his immoral ass into a jail cell and he would be well justified.

Or do you think that was anything other than murder?

Regards
DL

It is comments like these that demonstrate you don't really have any understanding of Orthodox teachings.  If you want to criticize Scripture based on outright literal interpretations, perhaps your time would be better spent at the Fundamentalist Christian forums here: http://www.christianforums.com/f370/ You will at least be speaking the same language as them.

You do not believe that Adam and Eve were real?

Someone else here talked about them as real.
No wonder you guys do not liker to inform. Some here do not know their own dogma.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2013, 09:37:58 PM »
Our present secular systems of governance have bested the Gods in the moral and legal senses

Indeed, under secularism we have reached the pinnacle of morality now that we can murder babies and sick people. Only ignorant, old-fashioned rednecks would oppose such improvements.

In the story od David and Bathsheba, they sinned yet God punished their child.
Do you prefer God's method of torture for 7 days before the killing?

At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Would you prefer living by God's barbaric laws?
Are you ready to pick up stones to stone unruly children or people wearing two different clots?


Regards
DL
Rape, torture and slavery?  What are you talking about?

Punch those word and bible into google and read.

I see that you are not upset with God torturing a child for 7 days before killing it.

Nice morals pal.

Regards
DL
You have no idea what you are talking about.  Nice way of looking at things with an extremely narrow and personal view of what you want things to be instead of how they are.  You have come to the wrong corner of the Internet universe to attempt slander against Orthodoxy. 

At least you are bright enough to not bother denying your poor morals.

Regards
DL

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #150 on: July 16, 2013, 09:38:36 PM »
Quote
I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.
To say that God evolves or changes means that there are limitations to this God.  I would say that perhaps men's understanding of God evolves, but for God Himself to evolve, you remove a basic essence of who God is, the Unmoved Mover, in the words of Aristotle.

Your God had to break his own commandment of coveting another man's woman to reproduce and then became a deadbeat dad and shunned his reproductive responsibility. Quite immoral that.
At first I laughed loudly, then I realized you were serious and became very sad.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,795
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #151 on: July 16, 2013, 09:38:46 PM »
So, proselytizing, ad hominems- anyone want to start a poll on how long until Flick Flack/GIA/whoever gets the big red blot?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #152 on: July 16, 2013, 09:39:19 PM »
You seem to have used "G" rather than "g" several times.

Your point?

Regards
DL
You should fix yourself. There is one God and many false gods.

If God did not want false Gods then he would not sin by lying to prophets now would he.

Care to tell us why he would do such a thing?

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
Thessalonians 2:11

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

Regards
DL
What bothers me are the lies you spread.

Name one and let's debate liar.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #153 on: July 16, 2013, 09:42:11 PM »
At least we do not encourage rape and slavery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI


That was a decent movie, too bad there's only a 10 minute clip there. Have you seen the end of it, btw? The ending might surprise you if you are going only by that clip taken out of context...

I have seen it all and it is on the net for all to see.

I was surprised a bit on the ending but as a Gnostic Christian, I promote spiritual seeking and have no problem with their stance.

I have spoken to many Jews and most seem brighter than the average Christian.

The more literal or fundamental believers are, from any religion, the less they seem able to think for themselves.

Regards
DL
The irony is, you interpret Scripture exactly how fundamentalist protestants do.

As an FYI, your post walk dangerously close to proselytizing which is banned as per forum rules.  Wouldn't want you to get whapped with the ban stick.  ;)

If my preaching Jesus and his methods offends those here who can ban then I do not want to be here.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #154 on: July 16, 2013, 09:45:54 PM »


You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.


That certainly is an opinion, even if its incorrect.  Tell me, just how is it you can dictate how, what and the reasoning of God?

I expect a God to take the moral high ground. Don't you?

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.

Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice.
God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard.
 
The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.


To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple question for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?

This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because you think God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.

Regards
DL

When you are interested in learning about Orthodoxy, let me know.  Until then, I'll pass on the spreading of your version of Gnosticism, which we know as a heretical religion.


Is that synonymous with more moral?

Yet morally, I put the run on you I see.

Pathetic you are.

And you think God will let you into heaven. How droll.

Regards
DL

Let's see... In just the last few posts you called a poster pathetic and a liar. You also did this within hours of coming off Post Moderation that you drew for being similarly rude and disrespectful. You have thus shown that you are here only to flame us and that you have no intent of making yourself a welcome member of our community. Therefore, you are being placed back on Post Moderation for the duration of 99 days. Engage in this behavior again so soon after you come off Moderated status, and you will likely be muted or banned.

If you feel this action is wrong, please appeal it to me via private message.

- PeterTheAleut
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 12:48:34 AM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #155 on: July 16, 2013, 09:48:14 PM »


You forget that a loving and moral God would not create an immoral construct called hell.


That certainly is an opinion, even if its incorrect.  Tell me, just how is it you can dictate how, what and the reasoning of God?

I expect a God to take the moral high ground. Don't you?

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.

Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice.
God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard.
 
The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.


To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple question for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?

This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because you think God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.

Regards
DL


1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years? - Orthodoxy does not teach this

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs? - Orthodoxy does not teach this.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result? - Orthodoxy does not teach this.

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose? - Since none of your premises are taught by Orthodoxy, this question is moot.

Thanks for not telling me what you do teach. Perhaps you guys just don't know.

Regards
DL

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #156 on: July 16, 2013, 10:34:03 PM »
Well, to date, you haven't seemed much interested in what we teach.  I've only seen you endlessly begging the question, throwing out ad hominems and attacking strawmen.  Between all the logical fallacies you are throwing around, you haven't had time to demonstrate interest in what Orthodoxy teaches.  Unlike gnosticism, it's not really a concept that can be taught by throwing out sneering questions and insulting one-liners.
God bless!

Offline theistgal

  • Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,240
  • don't even go there!
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #157 on: July 16, 2013, 10:36:36 PM »
Thanks for not telling me what you do teach. Perhaps you guys just don't know.

Regards
DL

More likely, you really don't want to know.  ::)
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #158 on: July 16, 2013, 11:08:59 PM »
Now I get hell for visiting one of my sons in the hospital.

A good way to draw me to your religion.

Though there was nothing in your posts to indicate this was the reason you were leaving, you are right to call me on my rudeness.  I ask your forgiveness. 
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #159 on: July 16, 2013, 11:24:29 PM »
The light within me when I activate it just as Jesus says it is. A realm of nothing but though. A cosmic consciousness.

Light may be seen as enlightenment because in reality, that place is not bright at all.

This is it for me today. Duty calls.

How convenient. 

Where does Jesus say that the light you activate within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)...A cosmic consciousness"?  Nothing you quoted from his words in the Gospels is nearly that esoteric.   

...

Listen. Learn. If you are capable. It is all from Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

With my apology made, I do want to note that nothing in that video (and as I said before, I watched the whole thing) indicates that Jesus said the light one activates within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)...A cosmic consciousness".  Mr Donohue may draw those conclusions based on presuppositions he's attaching to his selective quoting of some of Jesus' sayings (but not others).  But the Jesus presented in the NT is not saying those things, and Mr Donohue is not Jesus--unless Gnosticism has picked up a few more beliefs since I last studied it.

In other words, you haven't addressed my question in any remotely meaningful way.  You just posted a Youtube link. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4AmLcBLZWY       
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,265
  • Paint It Red
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #160 on: July 17, 2013, 01:11:35 AM »
So I checked this thread this morning, saw barely a few replies. Didn't think it would go further, and saw it at 128 replies tonight.

Didn't think the OP would be so active. Or rather too much shooting from the hip.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #161 on: July 17, 2013, 02:20:29 AM »
Remember that in the Moses myth, esoterically speaking, he had to get past the burning bush which is Satan.
God dwells behind his most trusted angel.  

Right?

Wrong. Meetly and rightly speaking the Burning Bush is the all-holy Theotokos: God dwells in his most humble handmaid.

Earth - water - air - fire - Godhead.

Think Kundalini. Better still. Think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUV_Xtzz3CQ

"These portentous and profound mysteries do not fall within the range of every intellect, because all have not sufficiently purged their brains."

Quote from: St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Preface
These men falsify the oracles of God, and prove themselves evil interpreters of the good word of revelation. They also overthrow the faith of many, by drawing them away, under a pretence of [superior] knowledge, from Him who rounded and adorned the universe; as if, forsooth, they had something more excellent and sublime to reveal, than that God who created the heaven and the earth, and all things that are therein. By means of specious and plausible words, they cunningly allure the simple-minded to inquire into their system; but they nevertheless clumsily destroy them, while they initiate them into their blasphemous and impious opinions respecting the Demiurge; and these simple ones are unable, even in such a matter, to distinguish falsehood from truth.

Source
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 02:22:17 AM by Romaios »

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #162 on: July 17, 2013, 10:43:27 AM »
Romaios,

That's too much reading, would you be so kind as to post the Youtube video of St Irenaeus reading Book I of Against Heresies?  Thanks.
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #163 on: July 17, 2013, 10:55:04 AM »
Romaios,

That's too much reading, would you be so kind as to post the Youtube video of St Irenaeus reading Book I of Against Heresies?  Thanks.
BEST QUOTE EVER!  :laugh:
God bless!

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,940
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #164 on: July 17, 2013, 11:03:41 AM »
Romaios,

That's too much reading, would you be so kind as to post the Youtube video of St Irenaeus reading Book I of Against Heresies?  Thanks.

No yt video, but there is an audio recording by Maria Lectrix.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #165 on: July 17, 2013, 11:04:50 AM »
Romaios,

That's too much reading, would you be so kind as to post the Youtube video of St Irenaeus reading Book I of Against Heresies?  Thanks.

No yt video, but there is an audio recording by Maria Lectrix.
Unacceptable.  If St. Irenaeus isn't the one reading it, it isn't worth listening to.  :laugh:
God bless!

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,865
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #166 on: July 17, 2013, 11:22:34 AM »
No yt video, but there is an audio recording by Maria Lectrix.
Unacceptable.  If St. Irenaeus isn't the one reading it, it isn't worth listening to.  :laugh:

Oh, I don't know about that...Maria Lectrix sounds a lot sexier than St Irenaeus of Lyons (even when you pronounce Lyons as Lions).  Maybe we should give it a try.  :P
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Merarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,475
  • Race: Human. Culture: Yes.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #167 on: July 17, 2013, 11:48:44 AM »
No yt video, but there is an audio recording by Maria Lectrix.
Unacceptable.  If St. Irenaeus isn't the one reading it, it isn't worth listening to.  :laugh:

Oh, I don't know about that...Maria Lectrix sounds a lot sexier than St Irenaeus of Lyons (even when you pronounce Lyons as Lions).  Maybe we should give it a try.  :P

I end up finding the best links for my blogroll through thoroughly disreputable sources... :D
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox ~

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #168 on: July 17, 2013, 05:46:08 PM »
The light within me when I activate it just as Jesus says it is. A realm of nothing but though. A cosmic consciousness.

Light may be seen as enlightenment because in reality, that place is not bright at all.

This is it for me today. Duty calls.

How convenient. 

Where does Jesus say that the light you activate within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)...A cosmic consciousness"?  Nothing you quoted from his words in the Gospels is nearly that esoteric.   

...

Listen. Learn. If you are capable. It is all from Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

With my apology made, I do want to note that nothing in that video (and as I said before, I watched the whole thing) indicates that Jesus said the light one activates within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)...A cosmic consciousness".  Mr Donohue may draw those conclusions based on presuppositions he's attaching to his selective quoting of some of Jesus' sayings (but not others).  But the Jesus presented in the NT is not saying those things, and Mr Donohue is not Jesus--unless Gnosticism has picked up a few more beliefs since I last studied it.

In other words, you haven't addressed my question in any remotely meaningful way.  You just posted a Youtube link. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4AmLcBLZWY       

Thank you for watching it. I am not surprised that you did not quite understand it because of your mind set.

Let me give you mine and perhaps that will help.

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This quote is telling me that Jesus always speaks in spirit/parables/esoteric language.

He is telling me to think esoterically with his ---It is the spirit that quickeneth. He reinforces that notion with his ---the flesh profiteth nothing. He wants us to go into the sesoteric spirit type of thinking.

He is speaking of spirit life with his --- they are spirit, and they are life.

"indicates that Jesus said the light one activates within is "a realm of nothing but though (sic)..."

Nothing in word tied to reality but it is said esoterically.


Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Can your human body light up from inside?
No.

Can your spiritual body light up?
No.

Can your spiritual soul and consciousness gain the light from God that esoterically speaking is en-light-tenement?

Yes. And that is how Jesus meant it.

Let me reinforce this esoteric notion by telling you that one of the largest statues in the Vatican is that of an acorn and that that acorn represents the pineal gland which is what activates the single eye that Jesus speaks of. The third eye to the Eastern religions that seek enlightenment.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
Re: Is needing, or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
« Reply #169 on: July 17, 2013, 05:46:08 PM »
So I checked this thread this morning, saw barely a few replies. Didn't think it would go further, and saw it at 128 replies tonight.

Didn't think the OP would be so active. Or rather too much shooting from the hip.

Nothing better to do than throw stones and run eh.

Regards
DL