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Author Topic: Demonic Manifestations  (Read 6167 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2013, 07:53:26 PM »

I have known several priests who were visited regularly by different souls asking for prayers. These souls first appeared like a normal person, but then appeared ghost-like as the priests could see right through them, and then they would fade within a few seconds. These were not menacing demons. All they wanted were prayers.

The creature In saw was absolutely demonic. And I seriously doubt that souls can just randomly appear on earth seeking prayer. What, do they receive an out of Hell pass or something? There are billions of souls in Hell. Why would God grant just one soul to appear to someone for prayer, but never make it known who the soul is? This is ridiculous. And it sounds superstitious. If souls could appear at will to people on earth, than the earth would literally be filled by billions of souls constantly appearing asking people for prayer. Why just allow one soul out of the billions, and the soul never identify who he is? He never gives his name or explains what he needs? Nonsense.

How can you say only "one" soul appears?

Perhaps thousands appear to thousands of people, they just don't publicize it.

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« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2013, 07:54:42 PM »

I don't know when his bones were exhumed. And I'm just going by what I was told. Since there are so many liars in the world today, I don't guarantee that the information I gave about Paisios is true.

Then why would you put it out there as if it was an incontrovertible fact?  
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« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2013, 07:55:08 PM »

stavros, actually I do know what I say. That Paisios' bones are black, was reported to an associate of mine from his spiritual father on Mount Athos. They will probably lie and conceal this truth from you here in America, where all they care about is accommodating heresy and heretics.

This is something Old Calendarists say about all Elders and Saints that the Church glorified or the faithful venerate after they split, without exception. St. Nektarios of Egina included.   
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« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2013, 09:27:22 PM »

I don't know when his bones were exhumed. And I'm just going by what I was told. Since there are so many liars in the world today, I don't guarantee that the information I gave about Paisios is true.

Then why would you put it out there as if it was an incontrovertible fact?  

Especially when the person in question is highly regarded as one of Orthodoxy's saintliest contemporary elders. You called him an apostate based on hearsay regarding the color of his bones. What about the many miracles and healings that have been attributed to him?
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« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2013, 10:15:37 PM »

Judaism today discredits any references to demonic possessions as Christian concepts, I have in the past debated this with a man who is well versed in Judaism, and he was adamant that they only see the references such as Job or Genesis as metaphorical . And he was taught that they never believed in a real Devil or demons.

I have discussed the issue here and we came to the conclusion that they deny the truth because of Christianities frequent use of it, and the derogatory use that said they were accusing Jesus of being possessed by a demon in the Gospels.

In modern times there are similar parallels such as in Germany after the nazis, schools ignored the subject altogether.



Really?  The Jews do not believe in the Devil or demons?  Really? 



Yes, I was told this by a very knowledgeable site administrator(Jewish) at another religious site. He has studied Judaism all his life and while he said he was not practicing at the time he was brought up by the strict Hasidic Jews.

He was telling someone else in a thread that it was Christians who invented demons who are real, as well as a literal devil.
He said that the Jews only see them as metaphorical characters, who represent sin and lawbreakers, or something to that effect. But he was adamant that Jews do not now believe in demons as real. Course he said they never did, but alluded to some sects of Judaism that might have at one time, but no longer do.Or they no longer exist.

 But the Gospels quite clearly say that the Jews strict Pharisees accused Jesus of being possesed by a demon.

I argued using Job as an example, but that was when he told me that Job is considered poetry, which I checked and later found was correct, I never knew that before then(3 years ago), but since have read many books which talk about it being considered poetry which is different than the parts that deal with real persons who lived such as Moses. Job was made up much as Jesus made up parables of people who did not really exist, but were used as ways to teach principles .

I believe that they have altered what their beliefs are concerning demons and teach now that it was always that way except for some radicals. It seems to me hard for them, However, to accuse Christians of inventing these things when they are written about in their books before Christ.

So, what do they say about the snake in the Garden, who tempted Eve?





Jews have traditionally believed just that: that it was a snake.  They would more or less agree with Voltaire, "It was so decidedly a real serpent, that all its species, which had before walked on their feet, were condemned to crawl on their bellies. No serpent, no animal of any kind, is called Satan, or Belzebub, or Devil, in the Pentateuch."
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« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2013, 10:24:31 PM »


Especially when the person in question is highly regarded as one of Orthodoxy's saintliest contemporary elders. You called him an apostate based on hearsay regarding the color of his bones. What about the many miracles and healings that have been attributed to him?

No, he is considered saintly by apostates and new calendarists. He is an apostate BECAUSE he died outside the Church, and in communion with heresy. The black bones are simply a manifestation of his having fallen from Orthodoxy, and his refusal to take a stands.

I am opposed to Ecumenism and heresy, as anyone professing Orthodoxy should be. I follow the official CHURCH calendar. The term "old calendar" is simply referring to the official calendar of the historic Church.

It is inappropriate and against forum rules in an Orthodox forums board to call a well-respected Orthodox cleric directly an "apostate" or "heretic". You can convey disagreements in the faith without labeling the clerics.

-minasoliman
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« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2013, 10:28:20 PM »

James, the Book of Revelation identifies the serpent as the great dragon, called the Devil, and Satan. See Revelation 12:9 and 20:2.
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« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2013, 10:40:29 PM »

He is an apostate BECAUSE he died outside the Church...

Well, yeah, he didn't die in your "Church", but he did die well within Christ's. 

Quote
The black bones are simply a manifestation of his having fallen from Orthodoxy, and his refusal to take a stands.

You can't even take an official stand on whether or not his bones are actually black, you just repeat unsubstantiated claims that you admit may not be reliable because you want them to be true.  How is that Orthodox?

Quote
I am opposed to Ecumenism and heresy, as anyone professing Orthodoxy should be. I follow the official CHURCH calendar. The term "old calendar" is simply referring to the official calendar of the historic Church.

And with which "Two Orthodox" group are you affiliated? 

I respect Old Calendarists, but you give them a bad name.  And it really has nothing to do with your opinion of Elder Paisios. 
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« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2013, 11:11:48 PM »

James, the Book of Revelation identifies the serpent as the great dragon, called the Devil, and Satan. See Revelation 12:9 and 20:2.

When did the Jews start reading Revelation?
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« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2013, 10:02:53 AM »

God is said to have given Satan the power to deceive whoever he likes. God is also said to place lies in the minds of prophets.

With both our best and woirse antagonists working against us, there is no way of knowing if the demons inside of us are from God or Satan so I would suggest ignoring all talks of demons as fiction.

After all, that is likely what they are unless one wants to think that God did not do justice by sending Satan to hell with his demons instead of giving him freedom and dominion here on earth.

Would God be that stupid and immoral?
No.
He would send Satan straight to hell. Right?

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« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2013, 12:42:17 PM »

He is an apostate BECAUSE he died outside the Church...

Well, yeah, he didn't die in your "Church", but he did die well within Christ's. 

Quote
The black bones are simply a manifestation of his having fallen from Orthodoxy, and his refusal to take a stands.

You can't even take an official stand on whether or not his bones are actually black, you just repeat unsubstantiated claims that you admit may not be reliable because you want them to be true.  How is that Orthodox?

Quote
I am opposed to Ecumenism and heresy, as anyone professing Orthodoxy should be. I follow the official CHURCH calendar. The term "old calendar" is simply referring to the official calendar of the historic Church.

And with which "Two Orthodox" group are you affiliated? 

I respect Old Calendarists, but you give them a bad name.  And it really has nothing to do with your opinion of Elder Paisios. 
The Elder Paisios thing was just the tip of the iceberg.  If you look at his youtube videos, he's talking about reptilians and sorts of wacked out conspiracy theory stuff. Based on his videos, I think he has anathemized everyone in the history of the Church.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2013, 12:46:47 PM »

Quote
With both our best and woirse antagonists working against us, there is no way of knowing if the demons inside of us are from God or Satan so I would suggest ignoring all talks of demons as fiction.
ROFL! Your solution to trying to figure out an unknown quantity is to call it fiction?

I have no way of knowing if the stock market is going to go up or down tomorrow, therefore the stock market is ficticious.  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2013, 12:59:02 PM »

God is said to have given Satan the power to deceive whoever he likes. God is also said to place lies in the minds of prophets.

God is said, both by his worshipers and by his opponents, to do and to be a lot of things that may not be entirely true (a glance at some recent threads is enough to demonstrate this).  What are your sources for asserting the claims above?  At least let's start on the same page.   

Quote
With both our best and woirse antagonists working against us, there is no way of knowing if the demons inside of us are from God or Satan so I would suggest ignoring all talks of demons as fiction.

You take the "demons inside of us" as a given, but because of an assumed inability to discern their origin, you want to pretend that they're not really a given.  Right. 

Quote
After all, that is likely what they are unless one wants to think that God did not do justice by sending Satan to hell with his demons instead of giving him freedom and dominion here on earth.

Would God be that stupid and immoral?
No.
He would send Satan straight to hell. Right?

What kind of a god are you?
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« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2013, 02:32:36 PM »

I read somewhere that the Orthodox Church doesn't consider the books of Genesis or Revelation as history (while the rest of the NT, on the other hand, is regarded as actual history), but understands them rather as metaphorical/symbolic.  Is this true?

-C

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« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2013, 02:36:45 PM »

I read somewhere that the Orthodox Church doesn't consider the books of Genesis or Revelation as history (while the rest of the NT, on the other hand, is regarded as actual history), but understands them rather as metaphorical/symbolic.  Is this true?

-C




There is wide disagreement on that.  Many (myself included) view them metaphorically, but there are also many who vehemently hold to a literal or historical view.  The Church has not taken a dogmatic stance on the issue.
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« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2013, 04:15:14 PM »

Well, you see where I was going with that question, for how you answer it informs your answers to various questions which have been brought up in this thread.

I will say this much - and let it be a sort of confession:

I believe that regardless of how you view such things - whether you view certain texts as historical fact or metaphor, or both - whether you view demons and the devil as objective entities, or subjective aspects of your own human beingness - whether you are possessed with fear, lust, envy, ANY passsion, or whether you are tormented by Satan himself and possessed of demonic entities- whether you view hell as a physical place or as a state of being - Christ will save you from all this and more.

I believe that our Lord is a redeemer, a rescuer, a deliverer, and the salvation of all, and I believe that no matter what ails you, or how you view it, or what your theology is-- I believe that if you call out to Him in His Holy Name - He will save you and lift you out of your low estate, no matter what it is.  NO MATTER WHAT IT IS.  If you need help He will deliver you.

And I believe His saving grace extends well beyond the grave - that it is something in which you may abide here and now, no matter what you think about these things.

Lord, save me!

Jesus came to me in a time of hardship, and it is unfortunate, in a way, that this is often the case.  But I believe that even the hardest atheist, when they sink to such a low that they cannot go on, and yet they muster enough faith to call on Him and mean it, that they can and will be saved by Him.

I hardened myself up with pride to such an extent that I had to be broken down in agony before I called to Him and I'll never forget it.  The world weighs a lot.  He will lift it.

In some schools of thought, the cross is representative of the four elements earth, water, air, and fire.  In ancient Greece they reckoned all of material existence, the world, to be fashioned from these four basic elements.  And since we are material beings, you may say, in a sort of metaphor, that we too bear a cross of materiality, the world itself; existence IN the world is our burden and it is heavy indeed.  He will lift it from you no matter what you think it is- just ask Him.    

Lord, have mercy.

I could just as well post this in the "Atheist" thread over in convert issues.  These are the things I believe.

Sorry, I said I don't like preaching and now I'm ranting, but that's the mood I'm in right now.  (And I certainly won't go over 5 minutes Wink )

-C
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« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2013, 06:50:58 PM »

I recently read Malachi Martins book about exorcisms from the 1970s, Hostage to the Devil: The Possession and Exorcism of Five Contemporary Americans, there were a broad spectrum of cases thoroughly examined within the Catholic church , and while there was one priest afflicted , the rest were regular people.

Great book! I certainly don't recommend it as an Orthodox text on the subject, but I think the overall Christian philosophy of the book is very powerful. It is fascinating reading.

Quote
I also read somewhere that there are many priests and monks who want to be possesed , that they might gain insight into the spirit world, and also test themselves, Although it is highly dangerous and can have lasting effects.

The movie The Exorcism of Emily Rose comes to mind here, which was supposedly based on a true story. But in this case the victim of possession did not actively seek it out. She was innocently possessed, and then the Virgin Mary appeared to her and gave her the choice of ending her suffering and taking her to heaven or continuing her suffering so that others would know that the spiritual realm is real. She chose to remain on earth and be possessed in order to be an instrument of God. Now, I am in no way saying that this is a valid or Orthodox idea. And I agree with others here that actively seeking possession as some sort of spiritual test is hardly an Orthodox practice in the strict sense of the term.

My own view (and this is merely my opinion), is that we make too drastic of a distinction between demonic activity and individual sin. I think every act of evil in the world is the product of demonic influence and individual choice. As C.S. Lewis pointed out, we tend to err either on the side of saying, "the devil made me do it" or on the side of saying that the devil does not exist.


Selam

I think it may have been In Malachi Martins book that he talked about there being Monks or priests seeking it out, I have been trying to remember iwher I read it now, it has been a few months since I read it, and do not remember reading any other books on that subject, so it seems  it would have been his, there are some who have ridiculed me, But the peice I read about it was completely respectful and not done in a hateful way .
It was simply a quest of the soul seeking knowledge or seeking greater faith in God.
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« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2013, 08:17:47 PM »

I read somewhere that the Orthodox Church doesn't consider the books of Genesis or Revelation as history (while the rest of the NT, on the other hand, is regarded as actual history), but understands them rather as metaphorical/symbolic.  Is this true?

-C



Depends on the person you ask. 
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« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2013, 08:22:38 PM »

I read somewhere that the Orthodox Church doesn't consider the books of Genesis or Revelation as history (while the rest of the NT, on the other hand, is regarded as actual history), but understands them rather as metaphorical/symbolic.  Is this true?

There is no official position, though some approaches are more popular than others. Generally things seem to be taken on a passage by passage basis, not a book by book one. It also happens often enough that a passage can be understood in multiple ways, so it's not an either/or thing.
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« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2013, 08:53:12 PM »


If you look at his youtube videos, he's talking about reptilians and sorts of wacked out conspiracy theory stuff. Based on his videos, I think he has anathemized everyone in the history of the Church.  Roll Eyes

You are doing what I advised against in my video: taking once piece of the explanation, blowing it out of proportion, and spreading rumors or slander. I clarified that I believe the Reptilian phenomenon is rooted in the devil. So what? I hope you believe that too. What exactly do you consider a wacked out conspiracy theory. Be specific, and prove it false. You have a spot in your mind that you can't see past. And I have NOT anathematized everyone in Church history. Now you're lying. You need to be more careful in how you word things.
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« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2013, 08:55:53 PM »

I read somewhere that the Orthodox Church doesn't consider the books of Genesis or Revelation as history (while the rest of the NT, on the other hand, is regarded as actual history), but understands them rather as metaphorical/symbolic.  Is this true?

-C

No, that is not true. We believe Genesis to be history. To deny it's historicity, would lead inevitably to a denial of the genealogy of Christ, and consequently to a denial of his deity and atonement. This is what the modernist heretics are after. The New Testament is absolutely history.
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« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2013, 09:20:47 PM »

We know demons exist because Christ exorcized them, and inspired Scripture speaks of their existence. To deny the existence of demons, is to question the words and deity of Christ. Anyone who denies the teaching of Christ, is not a Christian.

Try resisting the devil, and he will make his reality known to you real fast.

I saw a demon with my own eyes, by the way.
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« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2013, 09:43:33 PM »


If you look at his youtube videos, he's talking about reptilians and sorts of wacked out conspiracy theory stuff. Based on his videos, I think he has anathemized everyone in the history of the Church.  Roll Eyes

You are doing what I advised against in my video: taking once piece of the explanation, blowing it out of proportion, and spreading rumors or slander. I clarified that I believe the Reptilian phenomenon is rooted in the devil. So what? I hope you believe that too. What exactly do you consider a wacked out conspiracy theory. Be specific, and prove it false. You have a spot in your mind that you can't see past. And I have NOT anathematized everyone in Church history. Now you're lying. You need to be more careful in how you word things.

what does it matter?  I'm already a heretic in your mind because I'm a new calendarist. shouldn't you be counting it all joy to be mocked by a heretic?   Wink

The main problem I have with your posts and your videos is that you are so concerned about how wrong everyone else is that you don't spend any time on self examination.  You are concerned that people are slandering you, yet you have tons of videos where you do the same exact thing to godly men in the Orthodox faith.  I'm sure you will respond by saying they have all apostasized, but I can say the same about you.  I can classify you as a schismatic because you are so concerned about old calendars and how other people are living out their faith that you don't stop to think about how you can hurt people.  Why not start making videos and posts about what God is doing in your life to make you a better Orthodox Christian instead of spending all your time tearing down other people. Just a thought.
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« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2013, 09:51:17 PM »

I have absolutely no respect for heretics or new calendarists. I don't care who they are. As for self-examination, you don't have enough information about me, and are not at liberty to have an opinion. You have absolutely no idea what I do and how I live.
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« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2013, 09:55:28 PM »

I have absolutely no respect for heretics or new calendarists. I don't care who they are. As for self-examination, you don't have enough information about me, and are not at liberty to have an opinion. You have absolutely no idea what I do and how I live.
Nope, I don't, but I do know how much time and energy you spend condemning everyone that you think is a heretic. It is a lot.  Seek help, dude, seriously.
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« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2013, 09:58:28 PM »

CONCERNING THE HOLY SCRIPTURES:

St. Barsanuphius of Optina: “In the Apocalypse it is said: ‘Blessed is he that readeth the words of this book.’ If this is written, it means that it is really so, for the words of the Sacred Scripture are the words of the Holy Spirit.”

St. Epiphanius of Cyprus: “Nothing of discrepancy will be found in Sacred Scripture, nor will there be found any statement in opposition to any other statement.”

St. Basil the Great: “Plainly it is a falling away from faith and an offense chargeable to pride, either to reject anything that is in Scripture, or to introduce anything that is not in Scripture"

Gregory the Theologian: “We who extend the accuracy of the Spirit to every letter and serif [of Scripture] will never admit, for it were impious to do so, that even the smallest matters were recorded in a careless and hasty manner by those who wrote them down.”


Saints Amphilocius and Gregory the Theologian tell us to accept the books of Moses and all the Bible.
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« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2013, 09:58:58 PM »


If you look at his youtube videos, he's talking about reptilians and sorts of wacked out conspiracy theory stuff. Based on his videos, I think he has anathemized everyone in the history of the Church.  Roll Eyes

You are doing what I advised against in my video: taking once piece of the explanation, blowing it out of proportion, and spreading rumors or slander. I clarified that I believe the Reptilian phenomenon is rooted in the devil.

Last time I had a conversation on "reptilians" was in a psychiatry ward with a schizophrenic.
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« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2013, 10:01:42 PM »

but I do know how much time and energy you spend condemning everyone that you think is a heretic. It is a lot.  Seek help, dude, seriously.

The Church has condemned heretics. I simply remind people about this. And the fact you think I need help for condemning heretics (which Implies there is something wrong with me for loving truth) shows that your mind has been influenced by the culture we live. May God help you. Saint Philaret said that today there is a lack of love for truth.
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« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2013, 10:02:29 PM »

Romaios,

do you believe in demons? That's all they are.
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TheTrisagion
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« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2013, 10:04:03 PM »

but I do know how much time and energy you spend condemning everyone that you think is a heretic. It is a lot.  Seek help, dude, seriously.

The Church has condemned heretics. I simply remind people about this. And the fact you think I need help for condemning heretics (which Implies there is something wrong with me for loving truth) shows that your mind has been influenced by the culture we live. May God help you. Saint Philaret said that today there is a lack of love for truth.

You know what they say, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Put your heretic hammer away.  Good gosh, man, if you were one of the 12 Apostles, you would have anathemized the other 11!
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« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2013, 10:04:54 PM »

Romaios,

do you believe in demons? That's all they are.
I will give you a tip.  This one is for free.

THERE ARE NO REPTILIANS. 

Unless, of course, you are David Ickes.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2013, 10:06:29 PM »

if you were one of the 12 Apostles, you would have anathemized the other 11!

No I would not. Stop trusting your thoughts and stop misrepresenting me! Get your information right, and think about what you are saying.

MET. PHILARENT:

“Let us remember that this indifference to the truth is one of the main woes of our age of apostasies. Value the truth, O man! Be a fighter for the truth… Place the truth higher than all else in life, O man, and never allow yourself to decline in any way from the true path…”

St. Gregory the Theologian says, “By your silence you can betray God”.
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« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2013, 10:09:02 PM »


THERE ARE NO REPTILIANS. 

Unless, of course, you are David Ickes.  Roll Eyes

Are you even qualified to have an opinion? The Reptilians phenomenon exist in ancient cultures. But I interpret the phenomenon from a christian standpoint, and link it to the demonic.

Demons appeared in many forms to Saint Anthony.
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« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2013, 10:09:13 PM »

Romaios,

do you believe in demons? That's all they are.

The guy I talked to seemed to think they were descended from the "sons of God" who had intercourse with the "daughters of men" according to Genesis 6. They also invented technology and rule the world. They were after him...
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 10:24:13 PM by Romaios » Logged
TheTrisagion
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« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2013, 10:10:05 PM »

if you were one of the 12 Apostles, you would have anathemized the other 11!

No I would not. Stop trusting your thoughts and stop misrepresenting me! Get your information right, and think about what you are saying.

MET. PHILARENT:

“Let us remember that this indifference to the truth old calendar is one of the main woes of our age of apostasies. Value the truth old calendar, O man! Be a fighter for the truth old calendar… Place the truth old calendar higher than all else in life, O man, and never allow yourself to decline in any way from the true path old calendar…”

St. Gregory the Theologian says, “By your silence you can betray God”.
Fixed.
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« Reply #80 on: July 22, 2013, 10:22:27 PM »

Quote
St. Barsanuphius of Optina: “In the Apocalypse it is said: ‘Blessed is he that readeth the words of this book.’ If this is written, it means that it is really so, for the words of the Sacred Scripture are the words of the Holy Spirit.”

This has zero to do with whether or not its literal history or symbolic and representing timeless spiritual truth(s); for either way it would be true and could be the words of the Spirit; even Jesus taught in allegories.

Quote
St. Epiphanius of Cyprus: “Nothing of discrepancy will be found in Sacred Scripture, nor will there be found any statement in opposition to any other statement.”


Again, nothing about whether or not to interpret it literally; literally or no, you can read it with no discrepancies and no contradictions. 

Quote
St. Basil the Great: “Plainly it is a falling away from faith and an offense chargeable to pride, either to reject anything that is in Scripture, or to introduce anything that is not in Scripture"

Taking something to represent a profound spiritual truth which has important implications for your faith and growth is not rejecting it, by any means.

Quote
Gregory the Theologian: “We who extend the accuracy of the Spirit to every letter and serif [of Scripture] will never admit, for it were impious to do so, that even the smallest matters were recorded in a careless and hasty manner by those who wrote them down.”

A literal history, and symbolic account representing spiritual truth are equally accurate.

Quote
Saints Amphilocius and Gregory the Theologian tell us to accept the books of Moses and all the Bible.

I see nothing here that leads me to believe they tell us we have to accept every last word as literal history.

-C
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« Reply #81 on: July 22, 2013, 10:33:41 PM »

warren,

I only quoted saints to show that we Orthodox Christians accept the totality of Scripture. It is only liberal heretics who want to allegorize everything. Yes, Jesus poke in allegory, but not all the time.

The attack on Genesis, and the neurotic need of certain individuals to spiritualize it, is rooted in an agenda to destroy the historical genealogy of Christ, his deity and atonement. It is an attack on the Christian Church and the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2013, 01:45:53 AM »

St. Basil the Great:
St. Gregory the Theologian:

Yet Sts. Gregory and Basil were impressed enough with Origen that they compiled a book full of his best stuff, The Philocalia of Origen, half of which is about Scripture, and which defends an allegorized interpretation of some parts of the Old Testament history.

EDIT--Sorry, didn't see your most recent post, in which you accept that some things can be accepted allegorically. Perhaps this includes "historical" passages, perhaps not, I'm not sure  angel
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« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2013, 01:47:30 AM »

Incognito, is there anyone or anything that you're NOT fulminating against?
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« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2013, 02:15:08 AM »

Incognito, is there anyone or anything that you're NOT fulminating against?

Rather than ridiculing him, why don't you address his points? I'm frankly tired of these cowardly personal attacks on anyone who expresses a view that certain people don't agree with. I don't agree with Incognito on this particular point, but I'm not gonna resort to personally attacking him because he has a different opinion than I do. Some people here need to grow up and learn to address the arguments rather than attacking the individual.


Selam
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« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2013, 02:21:52 AM »

Incognito, is there anyone or anything that you're NOT fulminating against?

Rather than ridiculing him, why don't you address his points? I'm frankly tired of these cowardly personal attacks on anyone who expresses a view that certain people don't agree with. I don't agree with Incognito on this particular point, but I'm not gonna resort to personally attacking him because he has a different opinion than I do. Some people here need to grow up and learn to address the arguments rather than attacking the individual.


Selam

Proof that you've read none of my posts in any threads where Incognito has, ahem, contributed. Spare me your sanctimony, Gebre.  Angry
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« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2013, 02:34:05 AM »

Incognito, is there anyone or anything that you're NOT fulminating against?

Very useful argument. I am persuaded
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« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2013, 02:38:26 AM »

Incognito, is there anyone or anything that you're NOT fulminating against?

Rather than ridiculing him, why don't you address his points? I'm frankly tired of these cowardly personal attacks on anyone who expresses a view that certain people don't agree with. I don't agree with Incognito on this particular point, but I'm not gonna resort to personally attacking him because he has a different opinion than I do. Some people here need to grow up and learn to address the arguments rather than attacking the individual.


Selam

Proof that you've read none of my posts in any threads where Incognito has, ahem, contributed. Spare me your sanctimony, Gebre.  Angry

You accuse me of sanctimony when you're the one personally ridiculing someone? OK. Good luck with that.


Selam
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« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2013, 02:44:54 AM »

Incognito, is there anyone or anything that you're NOT fulminating against?

Rather than ridiculing him, why don't you address his points? I'm frankly tired of these cowardly personal attacks on anyone who expresses a view that certain people don't agree with. I don't agree with Incognito on this particular point, but I'm not gonna resort to personally attacking him because he has a different opinion than I do. Some people here need to grow up and learn to address the arguments rather than attacking the individual.


Selam

Proof that you've read none of my posts in any threads where Incognito has, ahem, contributed. Spare me your sanctimony, Gebre.  Angry

You accuse me of sanctimony when you're the one personally ridiculing someone? OK. Good luck with that.


Selam

Just as you blame a series of children's books you've never read for leading young people astray, you're accusing me of ridiculing another forum member without having read any of my posts responding to his. Nice.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2013, 02:53:04 AM »

Incognito, is there anyone or anything that you're NOT fulminating against?

Rather than ridiculing him, why don't you address his points? I'm frankly tired of these cowardly personal attacks on anyone who expresses a view that certain people don't agree with. I don't agree with Incognito on this particular point, but I'm not gonna resort to personally attacking him because he has a different opinion than I do. Some people here need to grow up and learn to address the arguments rather than attacking the individual.


Selam

Proof that you've read none of my posts in any threads where Incognito has, ahem, contributed. Spare me your sanctimony, Gebre.  Angry

You accuse me of sanctimony when you're the one personally ridiculing someone? OK. Good luck with that.


Selam

Just as you blame a series of children's books you've never read for leading young people astray, you're accusing me of ridiculing another forum member without having read any of my posts responding to his. Nice.  Roll Eyes

Who's "fulminating" now?


Selam
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