Author Topic: Catholics and WRO  (Read 1498 times)

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Offline Alpo

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Catholics and WRO
« on: July 13, 2013, 09:57:42 AM »
For some reason many EOs seem to find idea of Eastern Catholicism highly offensive. I wonder does this work other way around? Does RCs find idea of WRO anyhow offensive?
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Offline militantsparrow

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2013, 10:52:16 AM »
I didn't when I was Catholic; but then again, I ended up converting. I do know that many Catholic laity were suspicious of the EC.
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Offline Wandile

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2013, 10:58:28 AM »
I have no problem with the WRO. I personally think its an honest and correct move by orthodoxy to have a western rite as most of the American converts come from western traditions. It accommodates such converts and should be encouraged over the eastern rites just as eastern orthodox are encouraged to join Eastern Catholic churches.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 10:59:22 AM by Wandile »
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Offline Papist

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2013, 01:52:03 PM »
No problem with it at all. In fact, it seems reasonable and healthy.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2013, 06:20:37 AM »
95% of American Roman Catholics have little if any knowledge of the existence of eastern Catholicism. Probably 99.99% of them never heard of WRO.

Most Orthodox are at least aware of Eastern Catholicism, but I suspect 95% have little if any knowledge of the existence of WRO.

ROCOR' s WRO had no more than 500 - 750 members total. That's one small RCC parish.


Offline Alpo

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2013, 06:25:08 AM »
95% of American Roman Catholics have little if any knowledge of the existence of eastern Catholicism. Probably 99.99% of them never heard of WRO.

Most Orthodox are at least aware of Eastern Catholicism, but I suspect 95% have little if any knowledge of the existence of WRO.

ROCOR' s WRO had no more than 500 - 750 members total. That's one small RCC parish.



Thank you for the reality check but despite the small numbers there's heck of a lot fuss about Eastern Catholicism among some EO folks. I thought there might be something similar among some RCs.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 06:26:17 AM by Alpo »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2013, 07:51:24 AM »
For some reason many EOs seem to find idea of Eastern Catholicism highly offensive. I wonder does this work other way around? Does RCs find idea of WRO anyhow offensive?
A lot accuse it of "reverse uniatism."  Makes a nice bumper sticker, but no facts to sustain the charge.

The Vatican has its own version of WRO-rite of St. Tikhon.  IIRC they call it the "Book of Anglican Worship" or some such thing.  Like the WRO, but UNLIKE its "sui juris" rites, the Vatican has modified the Anglican services to reflect Vatican teaching-something that they did not do (at least originally, and they deny they do it now) in the "sui juris" rites (except, of course, sticking their supreme pontiffs name in the DL).
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2013, 08:38:20 AM »
I confess, I do not know the difference.  I started a thread about this a few weeks ago and it fizzled out.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2013, 01:55:24 PM »
95% of American Roman Catholics have little if any knowledge of the existence of eastern Catholicism. Probably 99.99% of them never heard of WRO.

Most Orthodox are at least aware of Eastern Catholicism, but I suspect 95% have little if any knowledge of the existence of WRO.

ROCOR' s WRO had no more than 500 - 750 members total. That's one small RCC parish.

Thank you for the reality check but despite the small numbers there's heck of a lot fuss about Eastern Catholicism among some EO folks. I thought there might be something similar among some RCs.

I'm afraid you've got the wrong idea. Numbers for Greek Catholics are immensely larger than numbers for WRO.

But anyhow, numbers aren't a problem per se; but it must be said that at least a part of the reason for the numerical difference is the Catholic policy, over the last 4 centuries, of proselytizing Orthodox. That is a problem ... although I'm happy to say that we've recently renounced it.

"Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Eastern, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other"
- the Balamand Statement
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Alpo

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2013, 02:03:04 PM »
I'm afraid you've got the wrong idea. Numbers for Greek Catholics are immensely larger than numbers for WRO.

Of course they are but I assume the number of ECs is still small compared to EOs and RCs.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2013, 02:20:30 PM »
I'm afraid you've got the wrong idea. Numbers for Greek Catholics are immensely larger than numbers for WRO.

Of course they are but I assume the number of ECs is still small compared to EOs and RCs.

Certainly. Greek Catholics are about 1% of the Roman Communion, and ECs altogether are about 2% of the Roman Communion.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 03:02:59 PM »
I confess, I do not know the difference.  I started a thread about this a few weeks ago and it fizzled out.
Between Catholics and WRO?  Nothing.

Between the Vatican and WRO? The WRO are Orthodox.
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and urgent strife sheds blood.
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                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 03:04:44 PM »
95% of American Roman Catholics have little if any knowledge of the existence of eastern Catholicism. Probably 99.99% of them never heard of WRO.

Most Orthodox are at least aware of Eastern Catholicism, but I suspect 95% have little if any knowledge of the existence of WRO.

ROCOR' s WRO had no more than 500 - 750 members total. That's one small RCC parish.

Thank you for the reality check but despite the small numbers there's heck of a lot fuss about Eastern Catholicism among some EO folks. I thought there might be something similar among some RCs.

I'm afraid you've got the wrong idea. Numbers for Greek Catholics are immensely larger than numbers for WRO.

But anyhow, numbers aren't a problem per se; but it must be said that at least a part of the reason for the numerical difference is the Catholic policy, over the last 4 centuries, of proselytizing Orthodox. That is a problem ... although I'm happy to say that we've recently renounced it.

"Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Eastern, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other"
- the Balamand Statement

So the Vatican keep telling us while proselytizing.

Btw, I think the Vatican officially nixed the Balamand Statement a while ago.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Peter J

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2013, 03:22:02 PM »
95% of American Roman Catholics have little if any knowledge of the existence of eastern Catholicism. Probably 99.99% of them never heard of WRO.

Most Orthodox are at least aware of Eastern Catholicism, but I suspect 95% have little if any knowledge of the existence of WRO.

ROCOR' s WRO had no more than 500 - 750 members total. That's one small RCC parish.

Thank you for the reality check but despite the small numbers there's heck of a lot fuss about Eastern Catholicism among some EO folks. I thought there might be something similar among some RCs.

I'm afraid you've got the wrong idea. Numbers for Greek Catholics are immensely larger than numbers for WRO.

But anyhow, numbers aren't a problem per se; but it must be said that at least a part of the reason for the numerical difference is the Catholic policy, over the last 4 centuries, of proselytizing Orthodox. That is a problem ... although I'm happy to say that we've recently renounced it.

"Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Eastern, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other"
- the Balamand Statement

So the Vatican keep telling us while proselytizing.

While proselytizing? Are you mistaking Catholic Answers, for other such groups, for the Vatican?

Btw, I think the Vatican officially nixed the Balamand Statement a while ago.

Oh?
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2013, 03:27:18 PM »
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 03:28:05 PM by Alpo »
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2013, 03:31:41 PM »
The number of Eastern Catholics is in the millions, the number of WRO is in the hundreds. When one considers the number of Greek Catholics and Orthodox in countries like Ukraine, Lebanon and Syria, one can easily understand why it's controversial.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2013, 04:17:44 PM »
95% of American Roman Catholics have little if any knowledge of the existence of eastern Catholicism. Probably 99.99% of them never heard of WRO.

Most Orthodox are at least aware of Eastern Catholicism, but I suspect 95% have little if any knowledge of the existence of WRO.

ROCOR' s WRO had no more than 500 - 750 members total. That's one small RCC parish.

Thank you for the reality check but despite the small numbers there's heck of a lot fuss about Eastern Catholicism among some EO folks. I thought there might be something similar among some RCs.

I'm afraid you've got the wrong idea. Numbers for Greek Catholics are immensely larger than numbers for WRO.

But anyhow, numbers aren't a problem per se; but it must be said that at least a part of the reason for the numerical difference is the Catholic policy, over the last 4 centuries, of proselytizing Orthodox. That is a problem ... although I'm happy to say that we've recently renounced it.

"Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Eastern, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other"
- the Balamand Statement

So the Vatican keep telling us while proselytizing.

While proselytizing? Are you mistaking Catholic Answers, for other such groups, for the Vatican?

Btw, I think the Vatican officially nixed the Balamand Statement a while ago.

Oh?
IIRC, Fr. Ambrose (MYs!) posted the document or a link to it.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2013, 04:54:54 PM »
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline The young fogey

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Re: Catholics and WRO
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2013, 08:08:26 PM »
Regarding the original post, it depends. I like Antiochian WRO. Met one of their priests. They're not Catholic but not anti-Catholic either; quite the opposite, just like '50s high Episcopal.

ROCOR's anti-Catholic so I found their Western Rite operations offensive but mostly harmless.

95% of American Roman Catholics have little if any knowledge of the existence of eastern Catholicism. Probably 99.99% of them never heard of WRO.

Most Orthodox are at least aware of Eastern Catholicism, but I suspect 95% have little if any knowledge of the existence of WRO.

ROCOR's WRO had no more than 500 - 750 members total. That's one small RCC parish.

Right.

Quote
"Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Eastern, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other" - the Balamand Statement

That's fine. As I've been saying, the Catholic goal is corporate reunion. Never-Catholic Orthodox get the benefit of the doubt. So individual conversions aren't solicited but, because of the true-church claim, they are accepted, now quietly.

I don't like the Ukrainian Catholic Church's moving their HQ to Kiev either. Goes against what I wrote above. But it's understandable considering how the Russian Orthodox treated them under Soviet rule, and if you're afraid of competition from them, maybe you're vulnerable over there. And... are Soviet-raised, never-churched Russians/Ukrainians fair game, unlike born Orthodox? Fair question. I'd say, be nice and work toward corporate reunion, so let the Orthodox in their native lands have first crack at them.
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