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Author Topic: What would you do... if you were Ecumenical Patriarch?  (Read 4245 times) Average Rating: 0
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88Devin12
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« on: July 05, 2013, 03:42:58 PM »

Sort of a silly (with some seriousness) thing to ask, but what would you personally do, if you suddenly found yourself as Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople?
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2013, 03:45:19 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2013, 03:46:19 PM »

Resign.
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2013, 03:58:58 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2013, 04:03:50 PM »

I would work with the Church of Greece to reunite and then move my See to Athens and be the Patriarch of Constantinople and Athens and all the Greeks. I would work with my brethren in the MP to create a Patriarchate for the Carpatho Rusyns. And I would acknowledge the status of New, New, New Rome (or Brand Spanking New Rome) and its bishop +Tikhon, Patriarch of All America and Canada and the Western Hemisphere.
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2013, 04:06:26 PM »

Reverse some of the 1888 Typikon reforms, so that the canon would be sung at Matins and the Typika/Beatitudes used on Sunday liturgies (save certain feasts).

I'd also call for the destruction of all pipe organs in my American parishes and, once complete, add it to the Church calendar as a new feast.

Reunite with the Church of Greece, following the restoration to it, if possible, of the Greek Old Calendarist groups.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 04:34:56 PM by Orthodox11 » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2013, 04:07:15 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.

Should be clear.
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2013, 04:08:43 PM »

I would make pews and clean-shaven clergy mandatory.
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2013, 04:10:36 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.

Should be clear.

Orthodox Vatican? I'll pass.
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2013, 04:10:54 PM »

I would make pews and clean-shaven clergy mandatory.

Will we get a Bazaar of Heracleides vol. 2 once you're sent into exile?  Wink
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2013, 04:11:29 PM »

Set a definite date for the council that's been in the planning stages for five decades now. Probably January 25, 2014. I don't care who is ready or not. OCA and all similar groups are invited. I get the best seat.
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2013, 04:26:48 PM »

I would seek a return of the church of Hagia Irene, currently a concert hall. I'd raise funds to paint over the empty walls & iconoclastic crosses with iconography, and raise funds to renovate the building and making it structurally stable. I'd also attempt to raise funds to purchase nearby buildings which currently are part of the whole Topkapi Museum complex (they aren't for displays) and seek to move the Patriarchal headquarters there. It's not Hagia Sophia, but it is the second largest church in Istanbul, plus it was originally the seat of the Archbishop there prior to Hagia Sophia.

I'd also seek the full return of Halki Seminary and seek to reopen it as a seminary, and also seek to build an orphanage and rehab center on or near the island.

I would actively seek to get Turkey to respect and recognize Orthodox populations and seek equality between peoples. I'd also campaign in the EU, Russia & US to pressure Turkey to improve human rights and rights of all Christians within Turkey.

I'd also declare Turkish as a valid liturgical language for common use within Turkey and I'd encourage Orthodox missionaries to work within the nation, and also encourage Greeks and others to move into Turkey and settle near any Orthodox Churches.

I'd also seek to reunify the Church of Greece with the Patriarchate. I would release my churches in Sweden, Finland, Estonia and any Ukrainian Churches to the Church of Russia, possibly in a deal to bring all North American Churches under my omophor as an autonomous church, and release my churches in South America to Antioch.

Along with this, I'd also back off on Ecumenical efforts with the Roman Catholics, and strengthen/increase Ecumenical efforts with the Oriental Orthodox.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 04:29:50 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2013, 04:26:59 PM »

I would seek to repair the relationship between us and the old-calendar churches, which would, hopefully, eventually lead to a reunion. I would work out a clear definition of the relationship between the Orthodox Church and the heterodox denominations. I would seek out a closer relationship with the other Orthodox Churches, try and solve some of the canonical issues between the EP and the MP. Lastly, I would devote myself to missionary work, both in Turkey and in other parts of the World.

Realistically speaking, however, I would most likely be a very bad patriarch. I would probably be the Charlie Brown of the Orthodox world.
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« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2013, 04:34:41 PM »

Of course, all the steps below are not considering the huge political opposition they would suffer and that currently I have no skill or competence to deal with. I suppose the necessary skills would be divinely infused along with the miraculous event of my elevation.

I would continue the campaign to reopen Halki if it is not open by then.

I would support catechetical campaigns for adults, cradle and convert. I would put emphasis on Christian life as prayer, ascesis, love and truth.

I would discuss with traditional RC, OO and Protestants how we could create an ecumenical discourse based both on mutual friendship and cooperation and that at the same time does not send ambiguous messages about union, or about we being "mysteriously one", or not being able to know where the Church is not.

I would be as firm and unequivocal about the particularities of the Orthodox Church as with the common beliefs with other Churches, with a slight emphasys on the differences to balance years of commonalities. In the same spirit, I would respectfully disagree and affirm that we are right and they have deviated, and that I respect their right to think the same about us.

I would declare my support for the acknowledgment of the ecumenicity of the 8th, 9th and 10th councils and that the council of 1672 can be called the 11th (after the fall of the empire the oecumene is the whole church).

I would support the translation of classic and contemporary theologians, as well as lives of modern saints into English and support the creation of several translation committees in as many languages as possible. Preference would be given to those who did not have ecumenism as a cause and did not try to relativize differences to make them more palatable to the West.

I would not demand but issue a request that those who are in the process of becoming priests or bishops and felt they had the vocation for it, to take Management and Leadership courses at the best schools in their countries.

I would dettach myself entirely from radical enviromentalism.

My two most controversial acts would probably be:

I would support the study - maybe working together with the Roman Church - of the Salamanca School on capitalism, free-market and commerce to develop a thoroughly Christian approach toward the creation of wealth;

I would firmly condemn communism as the greatest persecutor of Christianity and of the Orthodox Church in the 20th century. I would seek to find the non-slavic passion bearers and martyrs of communism and glorify them.  In an ecumenical step, I would issue a communicate analogous to Decretum Contra Communismum, with the economic provision that forced colaboration did not constitute self-excomunication. Probably would get a lot of trouble with the Slavic Churches anyway.
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2013, 04:37:01 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.

Should be clear.

Orthodox Vatican? I'll pass.

What?  You are comparing a Ukrainian Canonical Orthodox Church with the Vatican?  Why?

I'm not surprised you're against the idea, but, I don't get your logic....as usual.
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« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2013, 04:40:53 PM »

Realistically speaking, however, I would most likely be a very bad patriarch. I would probably be the Charlie Brown of the Orthodox world.

LOL.

I would support the study - maybe working together with the Roman Church - of the Salamanca School on capitalism, free-market and commerce to develop a thoroughly Christian approach toward the creation of wealth;

Bigger LOL.

What?  You are comparing a Ukrainian Canonical Orthodox Church with the Vatican?  Why?

I'm not surprised you're against the idea, but, I don't get your logic....as usual.

If Constantinople had prerogatives to grant autocephaly to any part of the Church, no matter had it been their canonical territory or not, it would be "Orthodox" Vatican. Thanks God, looking into Chambesy agreements, even them do not claim that anylonger.

I would seek a return of the church of Hagia Irene, currently a concert hall. I'd raise funds to paint over the empty walls & iconoclastic crosses with iconography, and raise funds to renovate the building and making it structurally stable. I'd also attempt to raise funds to purchase nearby buildings which currently are part of the whole Topkapi Museum complex (they aren't for displays) and seek to move the Patriarchal headquarters there. It's not Hagia Sophia, but it is the second largest church in Istanbul, plus it was originally the seat of the Archbishop there prior to Hagia Sophia.

I'd also seek the full return of Halki Seminary and seek to reopen it as a seminary, and also seek to build an orphanage and rehab center on or near the island.

I would actively seek to get Turkey to respect and recognize Orthodox populations and seek equality between peoples. I'd also campaign in the EU, Russia & US to pressure Turkey to improve human rights and rights of all Christians within Turkey.

I'd also declare Turkish as a valid liturgical language for common use within Turkey and I'd encourage Orthodox missionaries to work within the nation, and also encourage Greeks and others to move into Turkey and settle near any Orthodox Churches.

You wouldn't be patriarch for a long time then.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 04:42:27 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2013, 04:47:45 PM »




I would make pews and clean-shaven clergy mandatory.

 Grin

I would work with the Church of Greece to reunite and then move my See to Athens and be the Patriarch of Constantinople and Athens and all the Greeks. I would work with my brethren in the MP to create a Patriarchate for the Carpatho Rusyns. And I would acknowledge the status of New, New, New Rome (or Brand Spanking New Rome) and its bishop +Tikhon, Patriarch of All America and Canada and the Western Hemisphere.

 Grin

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« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2013, 04:53:51 PM »

Some things that has not appeared yet:
- Stop requiring presbyters to be tonsured prior to consecration (and discouraging that)
- Introducing WRO in the EP
- Merging Rue Daru, Ukrainian, Albanian, Lemko, and regular dioceses into one structure based on geographical lines.
- Bigger tolerance for different calendars, languages, traditions etc.
- Letting Estonia, and Japan (do they have any parishes in Japan?).
- Acknowledgement of OCA autocephaly (like that for start)
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« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2013, 05:59:25 PM »

Establish two fully united autocephalous American Orthodox Churches, one in North America and Canada, and the other one in Central and South America. Canonize a Hispanic Saint.  Try reaching out to urban areas and ghettos. Anathematize Ecumenism and anyone who follows it, organize a mass Orthodox protest in front of the Hagia Sophia with Western attention and full news coverage and refuse to call it off until the Turkish government gives it back to us, finally give Ukraine its own Church so it quits complaining, and finally, give the newly established united North American Orthodox Patriarchate the first-among-equals status since the United States is like the 4th Rome.
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« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2013, 06:00:58 PM »

Sort of a silly (with some seriousness) thing to ask, but what would you personally do, if you suddenly found yourself as Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople?

I "found myself" as Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople almost ten years ago...just waiting for reality to catch up. 
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« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2013, 06:06:14 PM »

Establish two fully united autocephalous American Orthodox Churches, one in North America and Canada, and the other one in Central and South America. Canonize a Hispanic Saint.  Try reaching out to urban areas and ghettos. Anathematize Ecumenism and anyone who follows it, organize a mass Orthodox protest in front of the Hagia Sophia with Western attention and full news coverage and refuse to call it off until the Turkish government gives it back to us, finally give Ukraine its own Church so it quits complaining, and finally, give the newly established united North American Orthodox Patriarchate the first-among-equals status since the United States is like the 4th Rome.

That's very... idealistic.
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« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2013, 06:12:01 PM »

Impress the women with my power and be kicked out of office within one year in a Bill Clinton-ish fashion.
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« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2013, 06:17:55 PM »

Add Western Saints to the EP calendar and publically endorse WRO.
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« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2013, 06:38:27 PM »

Resign.

Me too
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« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2013, 07:34:07 PM »

Quote
I would support the study - maybe working together with the Roman Church - of the Salamanca School on capitalism, free-market and commerce to develop a thoroughly Christian approach toward the creation of wealth;

I would firmly condemn communism as the greatest persecutor of Christianity and of the Orthodox Church in the 20th century. I would seek to find the non-slavic passion bearers and martyrs of communism and glorify them.  In an ecumenical step, I would issue a communicate analogous to Decretum Contra Communismum, with the economic provision that forced colaboration did not constitute self-excomunication. Probably would get a lot of trouble with the Slavic Churches anyway.
   
I'd suggest opus dei or some such . perhaps the legionaries of mary.
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« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2013, 07:53:48 PM »

Some things that has not appeared yet:
- Merging Rue Daru, Ukrainian, Albanian, Lemko, and regular dioceses into one structure based on geographical lines.
- Bigger tolerance for different calendars, languages, traditions etc.
- Letting Estonia, and Japan (do they have any parishes in Japan?).
- Acknowledgement of OCA autocephaly (like that for start)

See my above post. Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2013, 08:35:21 PM »

Reverse some of the 1888 Typikon reforms, so that the canon would be sung at Matins and the Typika/Beatitudes used on Sunday liturgies (save certain feasts).

I'd also call for the destruction of all pipe organs in my American parishes and, once complete, add it to the Church calendar as a new feast.

Reunite with the Church of Greece, following the restoration to it, if possible, of the Greek Old Calendarist groups.

Actually Patriarch Bartholomew did try to eliminate the pipe organs.  His directives were interpreted as suggestions and simply ignored.
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« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2013, 08:37:37 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.

While the issue of autocephaly may not be clear (actually it is, but de facto vs. de jure is a detraction from this thread), one thing that is clear is that no one has become a patriarchate without Constantinople's approval. 
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« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2013, 08:40:10 PM »

Reverse some of the 1888 Typikon reforms, so that the canon would be sung at Matins and the Typika/Beatitudes used on Sunday liturgies (save certain feasts).

I'd also call for the destruction of all pipe organs in my American parishes and, once complete, add it to the Church calendar as a new feast.

Reunite with the Church of Greece, following the restoration to it, if possible, of the Greek Old Calendarist groups.

Actually the Violakis typikon prescribes the typika/beatitudes to be sung.  It is a further reform in the hieratikon from the 1920's that serves as the basis for modern Greek praxis on this.
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« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2013, 08:40:42 PM »

Add Western Saints to the EP calendar and publically endorse WRO.

Some of the Saints are, but the latter, well... if we are going based on Constantinople 1895, WR is already endorsed.
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« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2013, 08:43:19 PM »

Establish two fully united autocephalous American Orthodox Churches, one in North America and Canada, and the other one in Central and South America. Canonize a Hispanic Saint.  Try reaching out to urban areas and ghettos. Anathematize Ecumenism and anyone who follows it, organize a mass Orthodox protest in front of the Hagia Sophia with Western attention and full news coverage and refuse to call it off until the Turkish government gives it back to us, finally give Ukraine its own Church so it quits complaining, and finally, give the newly established united North American Orthodox Patriarchate the first-among-equals status since the United States is like the 4th Rome.

I assume you mean modern American Hispanic saints, since we have hundreds of Hispanic saints on the calendar already. 
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« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2013, 08:48:02 PM »

I would work with the Church of Greece to reunite and then move my See to Athens and be the Patriarch of Constantinople and Athens and all the Greeks. I would work with my brethren in the MP to create a Patriarchate for the Carpatho Rusyns. And I would acknowledge the status of New, New, New Rome (or Brand Spanking New Rome) and its bishop +Tikhon, Patriarch of All America and Canada and the Western Hemisphere.

Why a Patriarch for just Carpatho Rusyns, not all of the Rusyns (Ukrainians)?   Ukraine needs its own patriarchate.  The Patriarchate of Rus-Ukraine also would and should respect the plain chant tradition in the Carpathian regions.   
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« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2013, 08:57:06 PM »

Establish two fully united autocephalous American Orthodox Churches, one in North America and Canada, and the other one in Central and South America. Canonize a Hispanic Saint.  Try reaching out to urban areas and ghettos. Anathematize Ecumenism and anyone who follows it, organize a mass Orthodox protest in front of the Hagia Sophia with Western attention and full news coverage and refuse to call it off until the Turkish government gives it back to us, finally give Ukraine its own Church so it quits complaining, and finally, give the newly established united North American Orthodox Patriarchate the first-among-equals status since the United States is like the 4th Rome.

Without getting too much into forbidden political discussion...while I am very sympathetic to the goal, that tactic would never work.
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« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2013, 09:05:05 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.

Should be clear.

Ukraine has a church of her own. And then she has a couple which want nothing to do with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2013, 09:08:27 PM »

Reverse some of the 1888 Typikon reforms, so that the canon would be sung at Matins and the Typika/Beatitudes used on Sunday liturgies (save certain feasts).

I'd also call for the destruction of all pipe organs in my American parishes and, once complete, add it to the Church calendar as a new feast.

Reunite with the Church of Greece, following the restoration to it, if possible, of the Greek Old Calendarist groups.

Actually Patriarch Bartholomew did try to eliminate the pipe organs.  His directives were interpreted as suggestions and simply ignored.

Trendy.
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« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2013, 09:49:40 PM »

Anathematize all who post on forums like this one. Wink
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« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2013, 10:21:31 PM »

Anathematize all who post on forums like this one. Wink

That's even better than hijacking a couple nuclear weapons and holding the world for ransom.
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« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2013, 10:43:13 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.

Should be clear.

Ukraine has a church of her own. And then she has a couple which want nothing to do with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

Not a canonical one that is under Ukrainian rule. Not yet, anyway. Soon.

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« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2013, 10:45:59 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.

Should be clear.

Ukraine has a church of her own. And then she has a couple which want nothing to do with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

Not a canonical one that is under Ukrainian rule. Not yet, anyway. Soon.



The Ukrainian Orthodox Church is autonomous, just like the Japanese and Finnish Orthodox Churches, but no one says they're ruled from Moscow or Constantinople.
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2013, 10:51:32 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.

Should be clear.

Ukraine has a church of her own. And then she has a couple which want nothing to do with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

The problem is that the mother should not be slave to the daughter.  This has splintered the ecclesiastical landscape in Ukraine.  This can be fixed.  Do we really think it is ok to isolate millions of faithful from communion, who especially among the younger crowd simply inherited this situation?   
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« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2013, 10:53:21 PM »

Anathematize all who post on forums like this one. Wink

If not all, maybe some   Wink
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« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2013, 11:02:52 PM »

Well, after I was done playing with my new found beard, I would go about getting Ukraine a Church of her own, out from under Moscow.  angel

If you had such prerogatives and it's not clear.

Should be clear.

Ukraine has a church of her own. And then she has a couple which want nothing to do with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

The problem is that the mother should not be slave to the daughter.  This has splintered the ecclesiastical landscape in Ukraine.  This can be fixed.  Do we really think it is ok to isolate millions of faithful from communion, who especially among the younger crowd simply inherited this situation?   

People have been duped to follow the Kyiv Patriarchate and the UOAC (or whatever it is). I don't think that is the fault of the Orthodox Church nor of Moscow. In the days of St. Augustine, most of North Africa was Donatist. That didn't change anything.
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« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2013, 11:03:14 PM »

Add Western Saints to the EP calendar and publically endorse WRO.

Declare the WRO (the adopted BoC form; other western rites may be acceptable, but why resurrect them?) as anathema.

Western saints ARE in the EP calendar.

Do all things synodically and then return to the old calendar, call for a crusade to liberate Agia Sophia, apologize to Mt. Athos' monks for their treatment over the past few years, publicly declare the Pope in schism, and get Rush to play my enthronement...them or Iron Maiden.
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« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2013, 11:08:52 PM »

Renounce the claim to the "barbarian lands," if the real EP hasn't done that already. After all, wouldn't that be the whole world now?
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« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2013, 06:42:17 AM »

Western saints ARE in the EP calendar.

More need to be added.
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