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Author Topic: OOs in Iran  (Read 1239 times) Average Rating: 0
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Alpo
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« on: July 05, 2013, 03:10:17 AM »

Are OOs in Iran anyhow persecuted? Are there any attempts to evangelize Muslims? Do they receive any non-Armenian converts at all?

EDIT: Wut? Wrong forum. Mods, please move this to the public OO discussion.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 03:34:45 AM by Alpo » Logged

Alpo
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 10:55:56 AM »

No Maps? No anything? I thought there are people in OC.net from every imaginable country there is. I wouldn't be anyhow suprised if Kim Jong-un had an OC.net account. police
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Salpy
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 11:32:44 AM »

There is an Armenian community in Iran that dates back to ancient times.  I don't know exactly how things are for them right now, but my understanding is that there was more religious freedom under the Shah.  I don't think we have any Iranian Armenians here at OCnet.  Maybe one of the other Armenians here will know more than I do about the community there.  I recall that there is a very ancient Armenian monastery there on a location that was founded by one of the Apostles.
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Salpy
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 11:37:46 AM »

St. Thaddeus Monastery:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Thaddeus_Monastery
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Alpo
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 04:31:21 PM »

I recall that there is a very ancient Armenian monastery there on a location that was founded by one of the Apostles.

Cool. Smiley

My understanding is that traditional religious minorities are allowed to practice their religions in Iran since religion is seen as a sort of ethnic thing. To be an Armenian is to be an OO, to be a Persian is to be s Muslim etc. Non-traditional religions are generally not allowed.

What I don't know is what happens if Iranian OOs translated their services into Persian language and started to baptize Persians.
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2013, 04:40:21 PM »

Press TV is basically an Iranian propaganda channel, but you might find this recent interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEUX-T7ST8I

What I don't know is what happens if Iranian OOs translated their services into Persian language and started to baptize Persians.

Translation would probably be fine, but active proselytism and the baptism of Muslims would be a (capital?) crime.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 04:46:54 PM by Orthodox11 » Logged
Alpo
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2013, 04:50:24 PM »

Press TV is basically an Iranian propaganda channel

LOL. You don't say. That woman could earn a lot of money if she worked for some American mega-corporation.

I think I'm going for a walk in Teheran with a huge cross while singing God is with us in Persian. police

EDIT: The churches were beautiful though. Made me want to visit an Armenian liturgy some day.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 04:55:31 PM by Alpo » Logged

Salpy
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 01:05:00 AM »

Here is a short article about a recent pilgrimage to St. Thaddeus Monastery:

http://www.panorama.am/en/society/2013/07/06/armenian-churches-in-iran/
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 01:06:04 AM by Salpy » Logged

Salpy
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2013, 02:34:40 AM »

An article about Armenians in Iran:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians_in_Iran
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Salpy
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2013, 01:01:52 AM »

A video about St. Thaddeus Monastery is linked in this thread:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,53025.new.html#new
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Andrew Crook
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2013, 12:57:08 PM »

Cool thread.  Are there OO communities throughout the Middle East as well?  You guys have taken the brunt of the Islamic tide throughout history.    Like how common is it beyond Egypt, through North Africa.. and the rest of the "Muslim nations"?
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« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2013, 01:03:33 PM »

It can IMO be assumed there are some Armenians in post-Soviet countries.
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2013, 01:31:10 PM »

Cool thread.  Are there OO communities throughout the Middle East as well?  You guys have taken the brunt of the Islamic tide throughout history.    Like how common is it beyond Egypt, through North Africa.. and the rest of the "Muslim nations"?

Copts in Libya (~160,000) have been in the news lately for the usual reasons (being tortured and murdered by fanatics based on a bunch of made up garbage).

There are likewise Copts in Sudan (less now that the independence of South Sudan has brought a crackdown upon Christians remaining in the North), who are likewise apparently some sort of problem for people, despite being there for centuries.

The Wikipedia page on the Coptic Orthodox Church lists something under Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco, but the information contained therein is not clear how it relates to the status of the Church today in those places. Suffice it to say, wherever there are Egyptians there are likely Copts, even if they don't have an established church building for whatever reason. As far as the wider Islamic world is concerned, there are Coptic churches or at least congregations in Pakistan, Malaysia (and an associated mission in Indonesia, under HG Bishop Daniel), Kuwait (Armenians, too!), Bahrain, etc. Most of the Arabic-speaking countries probably have at least some OO presence. I know there are lots of Indians in the Gulf, too, and while the vast majority of Christian Indians are Roman Catholic, chances are there are some Orthodox among them, too.

Coptic hymn "Golgotha" sung as part of Passion Week - Pakistan Smiley
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2013, 01:33:36 PM »

Christians are not persecuted in Iran, the Iranian government even have guaranteed parliament seats just for Christians.

They are however, not allowed to try to convert Muslims.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 01:35:01 PM by Aedificare » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2013, 01:45:38 PM »

Christians are not persecuted in Iran, the Iranian government even have guaranteed parliament seats just for Christians.

It depends on what you mean by "persecuted", I suppose. Out and out violence is rare unless you are from Jaimat-e-Rabbani (sp.) or one of the other Protestant churches composed largely of converts from Islam/ethnic Persians and other "Islamic" ethnicities, but even for Armenians and Assyrians, who are native to the land, it's not all hunky-dory. If I recall correctly, it is necessary that civil servants in Iran pass tests on Islamic topics in order to qualify, regardless of whether or not they themselves are Muslims. Also, the coming of the Islamic revolution in the late 1970s really devastated the educational system, leading to the closure of Christian schools, the banning of teaching Assyrian language in those schools, the replacement of Christian faculty with hardline Islamists, etc. I'm not sure how much of the damage done with the passing of Islamifying educational reforms c. 1981 has been subsequently overturned, but I do know that the Christian community as a whole (OO Armenians, Assyrians, etc.) has never recovered from the decline brought on by the coming of the Islamic government.
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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2013, 06:11:49 PM »

A tangent was put into the private forum:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,53156.new.html#top

If anyone wants access to the private forum, they may pm Fr. George and ask for admission.
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« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2013, 10:19:27 PM »

The Oriental Orthodox Iranian Armenians form a large minority, as well as the Nestorian Assyrian COE adherents. From what I understand, the "cradle" Christians are not persecuted there, Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians minorities enjoy protection under Iran's constitution. However, the problem comes when a Muslim converts to Islam which is illegal in Iran. I've heard that many great numbers of Iranian Persian Muslims have secretly converted to Christianity via the Armenian and Assyrian churches or the Armenian protestant churches.

     
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« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2013, 10:27:02 PM »

I know it's not OO, but I did come across a book in Russian regarding a Russian mission to Persia in the 18th century, I believe.

I'm wondering if the Persian Empire, in that it was not friendly with the Ottoman Empire, took in refugees fleeing the massacres of the Armenian Genocide in the early 20th century.

Armenia and Persia seemed always to have been in close contact. IIRC, the entirety of Greater Armenia was only completely outside the Persian sphere briefly, that there was also some part of it within the Persian Empire or sphere of influence. Is that right?
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« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2013, 10:40:28 PM »

It can IMO be assumed there are some Armenians in post-Soviet countries.

Especially in Armenia.
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« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2013, 11:17:22 PM »

I know it's not OO, but I did come across a book in Russian regarding a Russian mission to Persia in the 18th century, I believe.

I'm wondering if the Persian Empire, in that it was not friendly with the Ottoman Empire, took in refugees fleeing the massacres of the Armenian Genocide in the early 20th century.

Armenia and Persia seemed always to have been in close contact. IIRC, the entirety of Greater Armenia was only completely outside the Persian sphere briefly, that there was also some part of it within the Persian Empire or sphere of influence. Is that right?

Yes, Persian Shah Abbas was very friendly to the Armenians and offered Ottoman Armenians asylum to Iran. The historic grand Vank Armenian Cathedral of Esfahan, which I believe is the second most beautiful church in the world, the first being Hagia Sophia, was built by the orders of Shah Abbas. However, we musn't forget his persecution of the Georgian Orthodox Christians and glorious gruesome martyrdom of the Sainted Queen Qetevan of Kakheti under Shah Abbas. To be honest, he had an agenda, he was friendly with the Armenian Christians and the European Christians because he needed help attacking the Ottomans who everybody hated.

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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2013, 08:37:56 PM »

I know it's not OO, but I did come across a book in Russian regarding a Russian mission to Persia in the 18th century, I believe.

I'm wondering if the Persian Empire, in that it was not friendly with the Ottoman Empire, took in refugees fleeing the massacres of the Armenian Genocide in the early 20th century.

Armenia and Persia seemed always to have been in close contact. IIRC, the entirety of Greater Armenia was only completely outside the Persian sphere briefly, that there was also some part of it within the Persian Empire or sphere of influence. Is that right?

Yes, Persian Shah Abbas was very friendly to the Armenians and offered Ottoman Armenians asylum to Iran. The historic grand Vank Armenian Cathedral of Esfahan, which I believe is the second most beautiful church in the world, the first being Hagia Sophia, was built by the orders of Shah Abbas. However, we musn't forget his persecution of the Georgian Orthodox Christians and glorious gruesome martyrdom of the Sainted Queen Qetevan of Kakheti under Shah Abbas. To be honest, he had an agenda, he was friendly with the Armenian Christians and the European Christians because he needed help attacking the Ottomans who everybody hated.



Post no. 431. Auspicious!
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