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Fr. David:

--- Quote from: ByzantineSerb on January 26, 2005, 10:07:48 PM ---I am aware that many of the canonical Orthodox churches accept or tolerate Western Rites; what churches might not tolerate this small (but slightly growing) group of "Western Orthodox"?
--- End quote ---

"Tolerate" would be the right word in this case, sadly...there was a Greek bishop in the NW US (of blessed memory now, iirc) who sent out instructions to his priests that they were not to concelebrate w/WR priests if the opportunity arose.  The general feeling I get from the OCA (judging from comments like Fr. Alexander Schmemman's) is that, while it's not technically wrong to do this, it may be...unwise.  After all, the thought goes, with all the other hurdles we Orthodox in America have to deal with, why "complicate" matters further by "fragmenting" ourselves according to rite?

I find the first view to be abominable, the second to be an underestimation of most Orthodox Christians' ability to be flexible.  To wall oneself off from canonically ordained fellow-priests is a serious affront to the unity of the Church, and to discourage or speak poorly of the WR because some would be uncomfortable makes it seem as though it were some insurmountable obstacle for Orthodox to overcome.

I personally think we're all capable of better.

As for the masses, there are two: the Gregorian adaptation and the adaptation of the 1928 BCP (known in WRO as the Rite of St. Tikhon).  The ROST is incredibly similar to the present day traditional Episcopal service -- though Ebor will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong (and that is as it should be!  ;D).

(Edited to correct manner of referring to a priest)

Arystarcus:

--- Quote ---As for the masses, there are two: the Gregorian adaptation and the adaptation of the 1928 BCP (known in WRO as the Rite of St. Tikhon).  The ROST is incredibly similar to the present day traditional Episcopal service -- though Ebor will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong (and that is as it should be!  ).
--- End quote ---

I believe that the Rite of St. Tikhon is closer to the 1928 Book of Common Prayer and was based upon it, not on the 1979 BCP's traditional "Rite 1" liturgy.

http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1928/BCP_1928.htm

In Christ,
Aaron

Jakub:
I usally visit www.antiochian.org or www.westernorthodox.com, they now have a Mission nearby, also we have a additional Coptic Orthodox Church, Archangel Raphael & St. Mina, www.lacopts.org.

I'm forgetting Sts. Constantine & Helen, www.stsconstantineandhelen.org    .

My semi-geezer brain is spinning.

james

James2:

--- Quote from: Arystarcus on January 27, 2005, 01:33:36 AM ---

I believe that the Rite of St. Tikhon is closer to the 1928 Book of Common Prayer and was based upon it, not on the 1979 BCP's traditional "Rite 1" liturgy.

http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1928/BCP_1928.htm

In Christ,
Aaron

--- End quote ---

Yes, the Rite of St. Tikhon is based on the 1928 BCP, not on Rite 1. It is also based on the Anglican Missal, which itself was based on the 1928 BCP, with additions/modifications from the Tridentine Roman Missal. Thus, you will find differences between St. Tikhon and 1928 such as the position of the Gloria in excelsis. There are also additions from the missal such as the Orate, fratres and the salutation before the Sursum corda that are not in 1928. Some of these differences/additions also made it into Rite 1, but that is coincidental. There are also some elements in St. Tikhon which were included/excluded to make it Orthodox, e.g., the strengthening of the epiklesis and no filioque.

Ebor:
The Rite of St. Gregory as done on the site linked is a Pre-V2 mass all in English. (I found that at the bottom of the page. :D )

The "Kyrie" is familiar because it's been used in Episcopalian churchs too. (I'd say that we use good music where ever we find it, but I'm afraid someone would accuse us of "Song rustlin' Pardner." ;D ) Much of the service is still familiar to me though in a somewhat trimmed form. For example in  one form of the Confession Anglicans, in my experience, say:

I confess to God Almighty, in the presence of all the Saints, that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word and deed, by my fault, by my own fault, by my own most grievous fault.

We don't mention St. Mary the Virgin, the angels and so forth as much. They are spoken of in other places such as at the conclusion of the Prayers of the People for instance. We do make the triple crossing (forehead, lips and heart) at the start of the Gospel reading.

It is St. Tikhon's Rite that is drawn from Anglican sources as has been pointed out.

If you'd like more analysis, I'll be glad to oblige.

Ebor

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