Poll

Star-Spangled Virgin: Blessed, Blasphemous, or Meh?

(RC opinion only): Blessed
0 (0%)
(RC opinion only): Blasphemous
4 (10.8%)
(RC opinion only): Meh
2 (5.4%)
(EO opinion only): Blessed
1 (2.7%)
(EO opinion only): Blasphemous
22 (59.5%)
(EO opinion only): Meh
8 (21.6%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: Star-Spangled Virrgin: Blessed, Blasphemous, or Meh?  (Read 6125 times)

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Star-Spangled Virrgin: Blessed, Blasphemous, or Meh?
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2013, 10:57:38 AM »
The OO Arameans and Assyrians also mix their religious and national symbols.

Though I've seen this in Youtube videos, I've never actually seen it in a church.  Maybe the parishioners just didn't care about patriotism?  :P
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Romaios

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Re: Star-Spangled Virrgin: Blessed, Blasphemous, or Meh?
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2013, 11:26:17 AM »
The OO Arameans and Assyrians also mix their religious and national symbols.

Though I've seen this in Youtube videos, I've never actually seen it in a church.  Maybe the parishioners just didn't care about patriotism?  :P

Sorry if that wasn't accurate - I based my affirmation on youtube videos, since I haven't had the chance of seeing an OO church in real life (so far).

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Star-Spangled Virrgin: Blessed, Blasphemous, or Meh?
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2013, 01:25:08 PM »
You don't know what you're missing.  ;)
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline LBK

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Re: Star-Spangled Virrgin: Blessed, Blasphemous, or Meh?
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2013, 09:39:47 PM »
I used to be scandalized by the tricolor bookmark ribbons in most Romanian liturgical books. And the Greek flags hanging around Greek churches, even on Mount Athos. Then I saw that the Ethiopians sometimes have their tricolor around icons/liturgical items. The OO Arameans and Assyrians also mix their religious and national symbols. The Byzantine double-headed eagle is on the rug all our bishops stand on (the orlets/aetos). In the litanies we pray for "our pious nation" (to eusebes hemon genos), the political leaders (monarch, president, mayors, etc.), the army; at the Great Entrance the "heroes who died for our freedom and the faith of our ancestors" are commemorated. Surely, the line between a legitimate liturgical patriotism and ethnophyletism is easy to cross, but there must be one somewhere.    

I think the key is in the word "pious". We pray for pious kings, our pious nation, etc. What is appropriate in Church is the Christianization of our nation, not the nationalism-isation of our Christianity.

Precisely. There is no problem with bookmarks in the national colors, nor in praying liturgically and privately for the nation and its rulers. They are simply decorations and embellishments.

What is offensive about the tricolor forming the yarn on the Mother of God's spindle is that a national symbol is used in place of a motif which represents the Incarnation, God's taking of flesh and blood from the Virgin to become Man. In effect, the blood of Christ, derived from His Mother, becomes the national flag.

Is this travesty so difficult for some here to comprehend?
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Star-Spangled Virrgin: Blessed, Blasphemous, or Meh?
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2013, 03:50:22 PM »
"bleck" may be the word I'm looking for here.  :'(
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The dread Pantocrator...is also "Christouli mou", (my little Christ), who really listens when you run in to your neighborhood church on the way to work to cry and light a candle because your daughter is in trouble at school. The untouchable and all-holy Mother of God is also "Panayitsa mou", who really will take your part before the court of heaven because, just like your own mom, she’ll always stick up for her children, no matter how badly they’ve behaved.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Star-Spangled Virrgin: Blessed, Blasphemous, or Meh?
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2013, 03:58:45 PM »
These images would be funny if they weren't so sad. Horrible.


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Offline Scotty

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Re: Star-Spangled Virrgin: Blessed, Blasphemous, or Meh?
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2013, 01:13:14 PM »
I don't think the Church in the U.S. has ever given much thought to Rome's condemnations of Americanism in the late 1800s.