OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 02, 2014, 11:32:33 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Vestments Questions  (Read 3359 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,369



« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2013, 09:22:25 AM »

It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Arachne
Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Online Online

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland
Posts: 4,366


Tending Brigid's flame


« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2013, 09:29:53 AM »

It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.

We're all Flame Warriors here. Cheesy
Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,418



« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2013, 02:58:12 PM »

Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.
Logged
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2013, 03:06:08 PM »

Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.


Maybe it's high time they printed a "Book of Uncommon Prayer" - the RC's have the "extra-ordinary rite".
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Posts: 6,892



« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2013, 09:27:23 PM »

It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.

I do hope you know I'm just trolling/joking.
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 29,981


black metal cat


« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2013, 10:10:02 PM »

It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.

Two things-- First, one difference here is that people in real life usually keep nasty stuff to themselves, or keep it to a select few they trust share similar views; while people on the internet are more open about blurting things out (so to speak). Are people on the internet more a--holish, or more honest? Or both? Second, one other factor that might be at play here is that people on a board like this are generally going to be passionate about this kinda stuff. That's why they're here.

So, let's say you talk to 100 Orthodox/Catholics in real life, and no one says anything nasty about contraception or Baptists or atonement theory. Maybe 10 of them think you're a disgusting heretic for believing x, y and z, but just wait till they get home before crap-talking you. The other 90 simply don't care, they're more interested in how the donuts taste (which is a more normal mindset). Yet, cross them regarding something that does interest them, and I bet their would indeed be nastiness, in their head at the very least.
Logged

"But science is an inferential exercise, not a catalog of facts. Numbers, by themselves, specify nothing. All depends upon what you do with them" - Stephen Jay Gould
Nephi
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Online Online

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Chalcedonian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,474



« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2013, 10:17:34 PM »

It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.

Two things-- First, one difference here is that people in real life usually keep nasty stuff to themselves, or keep it to a select few they trust share similar views; while people on the internet are more open about blurting things out (so to speak). Are people on the internet more a--holish, or more honest? Or both? Second, one other factor that might be at play here is that people on a board like this are generally going to be passionate about this kinda stuff. That's why they're here.

Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17,415


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2013, 10:17:59 PM »

The other 90 simply don't care, they're more interested in how the donuts taste (which is a more normal mindset). Yet, cross them regarding something that does interest them, and I bet their would indeed be nastiness, in their head at the very least.

Oh, the nastiness flows from their heads to their surroundings when they're provoked by just the right thing.  

Since you brought it up, I once saw a man start a fist fight during coffee hour because the doughnuts ran out before he could get one.  He was a dues paying member and also left an offering in the weekly collection on top of that: he was entitled to his doughnut.  Smiley  
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 29,981


black metal cat


« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2013, 10:35:22 PM »

Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

Sad I am sorry to hear this. Maybe because I've been here so long, or because I'm so comfortable here, I don't recognize it, perhaps even when I do it myself.

Logged

"But science is an inferential exercise, not a catalog of facts. Numbers, by themselves, specify nothing. All depends upon what you do with them" - Stephen Jay Gould
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 29,981


black metal cat


« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2013, 10:35:43 PM »

Oh, the nastiness flows from their heads to their surroundings when they're provoked by just the right thing.  

Since you brought it up, I once saw a man start a fist fight during coffee hour because the doughnuts ran out before he could get one.  He was a dues paying member and also left an offering in the weekly collection on top of that: he was entitled to his doughnut.  Smiley  

 Shocked
Logged

"But science is an inferential exercise, not a catalog of facts. Numbers, by themselves, specify nothing. All depends upon what you do with them" - Stephen Jay Gould
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,369



« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2013, 08:01:53 AM »

Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

Sad I am sorry to hear this. Maybe because I've been here so long, or because I'm so comfortable here, I don't recognize it, perhaps even when I do it myself.


I like it here and don't mind the heated debates.  Heck, I have been known to engage in a few tussels myself around here, but I would never encourage someone who was just starting their inquiry into Orthodoxy to come here, they would be running as fast as they could from it in no time flat.  I wince when I see new posters on here asking serious questions, because I know the thread is probably going to turn into a flame war and some variation of the word heresy will be in at least 25% of the posts.  I totally understand why many priests discourage catechumens from searching out Orthodoxy online.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,418



« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2013, 08:14:29 AM »

Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.


Maybe it's high time they printed a "Book of Uncommon Prayer" - the RC's have the "extra-ordinary rite".

We have them, actually, in the form of the various missals and in the supplemental books containing trial usages. But these both have the backing of our own tradition, which is to say, we actually know how to do them. I think there is a fair degree of Anglican understanding of Orthodox spirituality, but liturgical understanding is a different story. For instance, if an Anglican church did a Byzantine rite, the acolytes would probably tend to move about like a marine honor guard.
Logged
LBK
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,897


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2013, 08:19:18 AM »

Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

Sad I am sorry to hear this. Maybe because I've been here so long, or because I'm so comfortable here, I don't recognize it, perhaps even when I do it myself.


I like it here and don't mind the heated debates.  Heck, I have been known to engage in a few tussels myself around here, but I would never encourage someone who was just starting their inquiry into Orthodoxy to come here, they would be running as fast as they could from it in no time flat.  I wince when I see new posters on here asking serious questions, because I know the thread is probably going to turn into a flame war and some variation of the word heresy will be in at least 25% of the posts.  I totally understand why many priests discourage catechumens from searching out Orthodoxy online.

The problem with the OP is that he has listed his religious affiliation as "Orthodox Christian", his jurisdiction as "Anglican Communion", and asks for advice in obtaining Orthodox vestments for liturgical use. Is it any wonder that many of us have responded as we have?

I'll say it again: If he and his group is genuinely interested in becoming Orthodox, then the proper way to do so is to join the catechumenate, and be received into the Church by baptism or chrismation. The improper way is to concoct a bogus "Anglican eastern rite", and make use of Orthodox trappings to give some sort of "legitimacy" as well as exoticism to this "rite".
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,369



« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2013, 08:24:01 AM »

Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

Sad I am sorry to hear this. Maybe because I've been here so long, or because I'm so comfortable here, I don't recognize it, perhaps even when I do it myself.


I like it here and don't mind the heated debates.  Heck, I have been known to engage in a few tussels myself around here, but I would never encourage someone who was just starting their inquiry into Orthodoxy to come here, they would be running as fast as they could from it in no time flat.  I wince when I see new posters on here asking serious questions, because I know the thread is probably going to turn into a flame war and some variation of the word heresy will be in at least 25% of the posts.  I totally understand why many priests discourage catechumens from searching out Orthodoxy online.

The problem with the OP is that he has listed his religious affiliation as "Orthodox Christian", his jurisdiction as "Anglican Communion", and asks for advice in obtaining Orthodox vestments for liturgical use. Is it any wonder that many of us have responded as we have?

I'll say it again: If he and his group is genuinely interested in becoming Orthodox, then the proper way to do so is to join the catechumenate, and be received into the Church by baptism or chrismation. The improper way is to concoct a bogus "Anglican eastern rite", and make use of Orthodox trappings to give some sort of "legitimacy" as well as exoticism to this "rite".
I can't say that I disagree with you.  If you look, I posted some pretty mocking things in this very thread. I have very little time for someone who wants to pretend to be Orthodox but not submit themselves to the actual Church.  I was more refering, however, to the contest on what really unkind words we could come up with for Easter Rite Catholics as well as the numerous other threads on here where we mostly just mock and rip each other apart. I'm just as guilty as the next person, so I'm not being condesending, just reflective.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Nephi
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Online Online

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Chalcedonian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,474



« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2013, 11:04:26 AM »

Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

So why are you still here?

Maybe because I'm not an inquirer posting questions to get shot down?
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 29,981


black metal cat


« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2013, 02:12:09 PM »

Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

So why are you still here?

That's the way to show him how wrong he is when he says that people are hostile here!  Roll Eyes
Logged

"But science is an inferential exercise, not a catalog of facts. Numbers, by themselves, specify nothing. All depends upon what you do with them" - Stephen Jay Gould
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 17,415


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2013, 08:09:02 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWIEdBJMIpA

I hope Byzantine rite Anglicanism is done better than this. 

An eclectic mix of East and West Syriac, Byzantine, and modern Roman rite rubrics and texts (and omissions thereof!) in what is supposedly an adaptation of the East Syriac rite.  And surrounded by flags, kitsch, and other paraphernalia.  And what's up with those altar cloths?  Ugh...

But at least the vestments he's wearing are normal.       
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,349


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2013, 07:45:25 AM »

This tangent on what to call Eastern Catholics has been moved to Orthodox-Other Christian Private Discussions.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=52203.0
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 07:46:20 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,418



« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2013, 09:13:23 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWIEdBJMIpA

I hope Byzantine rite Anglicanism is done better than this. 

An eclectic mix of East and West Syriac, Byzantine, and modern Roman rite rubrics and texts (and omissions thereof!) in what is supposedly an adaptation of the East Syriac rite.  And surrounded by flags, kitsch, and other paraphernalia.  And what's up with those altar cloths?  Ugh...

But at least the vestments he's wearing are normal.       

You want wacky liturgy? There's always St. Gregory of Nyssa, San Francisco.
Logged
Nephi
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Online Online

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Chalcedonian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,474



« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2013, 10:01:45 AM »

You want wacky liturgy? There's always St. Gregory of Nyssa, San Francisco.

They obviously like dancing.
Logged
Cyrillic
Warned
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Posts: 9,327


Ceci n'est pas un Poirot


« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2013, 10:43:56 AM »

Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.


Why not?
Logged

"Eheu fugaces, Postume, Postume,
labuntur anni"
-Horace, Odes II:14
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,418



« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2013, 03:05:26 PM »

Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.


Why not?

Basically two reasons. First, for all the abuse the 1979 BCP gets, the basic structure of its eucharistic liturgy has remained absolutely fixed in every trial version or alternate text since. It is very much a western rite with very little "surplus" or repeated material. Second, what interest there is now in making changes seems to be largely directed towards, if I may be blunt, eccentric if not heretical wording within existing rites. There have been a few stabs at writing some supplemental prayer material but other than a current fashion for responsive forms there's no real eastern flavor to any of it. There's no interest at all outside of A-C circles in restoring old rites.  Things are somewhat better in most of the other Anglican churches (except NZ, which likewise has gone in for odd language of late).
Logged
Tags: vestments 
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.093 seconds with 50 queries.