Author Topic: Vestments Questions  (Read 4338 times)

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2013, 09:22:25 AM »
It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.
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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2013, 09:29:53 AM »
It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.

We're all Flame Warriors here. :D
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Offline Keble

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2013, 02:58:12 PM »
Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.

Offline Romaios

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2013, 03:06:08 PM »
Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.


Maybe it's high time they printed a "Book of Uncommon Prayer" - the RC's have the "extra-ordinary rite".

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2013, 09:27:23 PM »
It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.

I do hope you know I'm just trolling/joking.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2013, 10:10:02 PM »
It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.

Two things-- First, one difference here is that people in real life usually keep nasty stuff to themselves, or keep it to a select few they trust share similar views; while people on the internet are more open about blurting things out (so to speak). Are people on the internet more a--holish, or more honest? Or both? Second, one other factor that might be at play here is that people on a board like this are generally going to be passionate about this kinda stuff. That's why they're here.

So, let's say you talk to 100 Orthodox/Catholics in real life, and no one says anything nasty about contraception or Baptists or atonement theory. Maybe 10 of them think you're a disgusting heretic for believing x, y and z, but just wait till they get home before crap-talking you. The other 90 simply don't care, they're more interested in how the donuts taste (which is a more normal mindset). Yet, cross them regarding something that does interest them, and I bet their would indeed be nastiness, in their head at the very least.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2013, 10:17:34 PM »
It is funny that irl, I never come across Orthodox or Catholics that are anywhere close to as venomous as those this board.

Two things-- First, one difference here is that people in real life usually keep nasty stuff to themselves, or keep it to a select few they trust share similar views; while people on the internet are more open about blurting things out (so to speak). Are people on the internet more a--holish, or more honest? Or both? Second, one other factor that might be at play here is that people on a board like this are generally going to be passionate about this kinda stuff. That's why they're here.

Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2013, 10:17:59 PM »
The other 90 simply don't care, they're more interested in how the donuts taste (which is a more normal mindset). Yet, cross them regarding something that does interest them, and I bet their would indeed be nastiness, in their head at the very least.

Oh, the nastiness flows from their heads to their surroundings when they're provoked by just the right thing.  

Since you brought it up, I once saw a man start a fist fight during coffee hour because the doughnuts ran out before he could get one.  He was a dues paying member and also left an offering in the weekly collection on top of that: he was entitled to his doughnut.  :)  
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2013, 10:35:22 PM »
Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

:( I am sorry to hear this. Maybe because I've been here so long, or because I'm so comfortable here, I don't recognize it, perhaps even when I do it myself.

We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2013, 10:35:43 PM »
Oh, the nastiness flows from their heads to their surroundings when they're provoked by just the right thing.  

Since you brought it up, I once saw a man start a fist fight during coffee hour because the doughnuts ran out before he could get one.  He was a dues paying member and also left an offering in the weekly collection on top of that: he was entitled to his doughnut.  :)  

 :o
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2013, 08:01:53 AM »
Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

:( I am sorry to hear this. Maybe because I've been here so long, or because I'm so comfortable here, I don't recognize it, perhaps even when I do it myself.


I like it here and don't mind the heated debates.  Heck, I have been known to engage in a few tussels myself around here, but I would never encourage someone who was just starting their inquiry into Orthodoxy to come here, they would be running as fast as they could from it in no time flat.  I wince when I see new posters on here asking serious questions, because I know the thread is probably going to turn into a flame war and some variation of the word heresy will be in at least 25% of the posts.  I totally understand why many priests discourage catechumens from searching out Orthodoxy online.
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Offline Keble

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2013, 08:14:29 AM »
Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.


Maybe it's high time they printed a "Book of Uncommon Prayer" - the RC's have the "extra-ordinary rite".

We have them, actually, in the form of the various missals and in the supplemental books containing trial usages. But these both have the backing of our own tradition, which is to say, we actually know how to do them. I think there is a fair degree of Anglican understanding of Orthodox spirituality, but liturgical understanding is a different story. For instance, if an Anglican church did a Byzantine rite, the acolytes would probably tend to move about like a marine honor guard.

Offline LBK

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2013, 08:19:18 AM »
Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

:( I am sorry to hear this. Maybe because I've been here so long, or because I'm so comfortable here, I don't recognize it, perhaps even when I do it myself.


I like it here and don't mind the heated debates.  Heck, I have been known to engage in a few tussels myself around here, but I would never encourage someone who was just starting their inquiry into Orthodoxy to come here, they would be running as fast as they could from it in no time flat.  I wince when I see new posters on here asking serious questions, because I know the thread is probably going to turn into a flame war and some variation of the word heresy will be in at least 25% of the posts.  I totally understand why many priests discourage catechumens from searching out Orthodoxy online.

The problem with the OP is that he has listed his religious affiliation as "Orthodox Christian", his jurisdiction as "Anglican Communion", and asks for advice in obtaining Orthodox vestments for liturgical use. Is it any wonder that many of us have responded as we have?

I'll say it again: If he and his group is genuinely interested in becoming Orthodox, then the proper way to do so is to join the catechumenate, and be received into the Church by baptism or chrismation. The improper way is to concoct a bogus "Anglican eastern rite", and make use of Orthodox trappings to give some sort of "legitimacy" as well as exoticism to this "rite".
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2013, 08:24:01 AM »
Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

:( I am sorry to hear this. Maybe because I've been here so long, or because I'm so comfortable here, I don't recognize it, perhaps even when I do it myself.


I like it here and don't mind the heated debates.  Heck, I have been known to engage in a few tussels myself around here, but I would never encourage someone who was just starting their inquiry into Orthodoxy to come here, they would be running as fast as they could from it in no time flat.  I wince when I see new posters on here asking serious questions, because I know the thread is probably going to turn into a flame war and some variation of the word heresy will be in at least 25% of the posts.  I totally understand why many priests discourage catechumens from searching out Orthodoxy online.

The problem with the OP is that he has listed his religious affiliation as "Orthodox Christian", his jurisdiction as "Anglican Communion", and asks for advice in obtaining Orthodox vestments for liturgical use. Is it any wonder that many of us have responded as we have?

I'll say it again: If he and his group is genuinely interested in becoming Orthodox, then the proper way to do so is to join the catechumenate, and be received into the Church by baptism or chrismation. The improper way is to concoct a bogus "Anglican eastern rite", and make use of Orthodox trappings to give some sort of "legitimacy" as well as exoticism to this "rite".
I can't say that I disagree with you.  If you look, I posted some pretty mocking things in this very thread. I have very little time for someone who wants to pretend to be Orthodox but not submit themselves to the actual Church.  I was more refering, however, to the contest on what really unkind words we could come up with for Easter Rite Catholics as well as the numerous other threads on here where we mostly just mock and rip each other apart. I'm just as guilty as the next person, so I'm not being condesending, just reflective.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2013, 11:04:26 AM »
Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

So why are you still here?

Maybe because I'm not an inquirer posting questions to get shot down?

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2013, 02:12:09 PM »
Well, I must give him some credit since this is probably the worst religious board I've seen for genuine inquirers occasionally being shot down brutally without restraint. For another Orthodox board to use as a counterexample, TAW (The Ancient Way on Christianforums.com) isn't nearly such a hostile environment most of the time.

So why are you still here?

That's the way to show him how wrong he is when he says that people are hostile here!  ::)
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2013, 08:09:02 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWIEdBJMIpA

I hope Byzantine rite Anglicanism is done better than this. 

An eclectic mix of East and West Syriac, Byzantine, and modern Roman rite rubrics and texts (and omissions thereof!) in what is supposedly an adaptation of the East Syriac rite.  And surrounded by flags, kitsch, and other paraphernalia.  And what's up with those altar cloths?  Ugh...

But at least the vestments he's wearing are normal.       
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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2013, 07:45:25 AM »
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 07:46:20 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Keble

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2013, 09:13:23 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWIEdBJMIpA

I hope Byzantine rite Anglicanism is done better than this. 

An eclectic mix of East and West Syriac, Byzantine, and modern Roman rite rubrics and texts (and omissions thereof!) in what is supposedly an adaptation of the East Syriac rite.  And surrounded by flags, kitsch, and other paraphernalia.  And what's up with those altar cloths?  Ugh...

But at least the vestments he's wearing are normal.       

You want wacky liturgy? There's always St. Gregory of Nyssa, San Francisco.

Offline Nephi

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2013, 10:01:45 AM »
You want wacky liturgy? There's always St. Gregory of Nyssa, San Francisco.

They obviously like dancing.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2013, 10:43:56 AM »
Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.


Why not?
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Offline Keble

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Re: Vestments Questions
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2013, 03:05:26 PM »
Wuh, Eastern Rite Anglicanism? Is that like Tantric Mormonism or Presbyterian Taoism?

If you can convince an Anglican church to put a Byzantine rite in their BCP, then, yeah. But nobody seriously thinks that's going to happen.


Why not?

Basically two reasons. First, for all the abuse the 1979 BCP gets, the basic structure of its eucharistic liturgy has remained absolutely fixed in every trial version or alternate text since. It is very much a western rite with very little "surplus" or repeated material. Second, what interest there is now in making changes seems to be largely directed towards, if I may be blunt, eccentric if not heretical wording within existing rites. There have been a few stabs at writing some supplemental prayer material but other than a current fashion for responsive forms there's no real eastern flavor to any of it. There's no interest at all outside of A-C circles in restoring old rites.  Things are somewhat better in most of the other Anglican churches (except NZ, which likewise has gone in for odd language of late).