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JamesR
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« Reply #180 on: July 06, 2013, 05:10:55 PM »

But how mature and how deep can a high school romance really be?

Well my dad knocked my mom up with me in high-school and they got married the moment they turned 18 and their marriage has outlived most "adult" relationships and marriages.
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« Reply #181 on: July 06, 2013, 05:34:02 PM »

BTW, many more years of growth will give James the perspective he needs to understand Arachne's advice correctly. A breakup of a high school romance, which is very likely to be just as superficial and immature as those involved in it, is really nothing compared to the untimely death of a spouse or, even worse, a nasty divorce with custody battles.
Yeah, I can't believe an 18 year old has real emotions and feelings.
Real? Yes.

Mature? Probably not.

I know it's very difficult Peter to understand there is much more than IF A > B, THEN A ← A − B.
Ya know, Achronos, even a nerd like me can enjoy a healthy relationship with a woman.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 05:40:13 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #182 on: July 06, 2013, 05:38:08 PM »

But how mature and how deep can a high school romance really be?

Well my dad knocked my mom up with me in high-school and they got married the moment they turned 18 and their marriage has outlived most "adult" relationships and marriages.
Yes, it is possible to grow up after getting married--immaturity at the start of a marriage does not mean that the marriage will remain immature.

However, your parents have bucked a trend that generally dooms such marriages as theirs to failure. That's what I mean by perspective. Your exceptional situation is not normal, nor should it be seen as normative.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 06:16:18 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #183 on: July 06, 2013, 11:30:34 PM »

The only woman I ever loved broke my heart and I've never loved since then and still frequently dream about her and closed up my heart and became a miserable hermit who hides behind the tough-guy emotionless façade Sad I don't want to love again; it hurts.

Oh, the drama. Roll Eyes

Being an adult is pretty much about going ahead and doing things that you don't like because they're right. Manning up ain't easy.
So you don't have a heart, got it.

Heartbreak is painful stuff, soul crushing, and you tell him to man up.

Ridiculous.
Yep.  What's so heartless about learning to adapt to disappointment in life?  It happens, and will continue to happen.  Life doesn't give out participation trophies. 
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« Reply #184 on: July 07, 2013, 01:25:28 AM »

Hi Opus!

The reasoning is quite simple. A big part of what love is, is whishing good to other people. How will you give what is good to other people if you don't even know what that is for yourself? When Jesus tells us that a blind person cannot guide the blind, that includes having your own personal experience of what is good and of what is love. If you don't have that, you don't know what love is and very probably is just imposing an abstraction onto the other person. Also Jesus taught us that if you can't love what you see, you won't be able to love that which you can't see. That's true when we talk about our neighbor-God, but also from "ourself-our neighbor", because we cannot really see their feelings, see their hearts, literally be in their shoes. But we can see our feelings, hearts and be in our own shoes. A lot of people who insist too much on the "other" simply can't stand themselves, to be on their own shoes. Nothing is more visible to you than yourself. Than your neighbor. Then God. And hopefully, you will one day see God inhabitting in yourself. But if you never learned to look to you in a loving way, you won't see Him there even if He is.

A lot of people don't get any dates for the simple fact that not even them know what is good for themselves. People love you as much as you love yourself. It's true that the perversion of that makes sick self-worshippers some of the most popular people in the world. But the misuse of something is no excuse to its demonization.

If you want to be loved by a spiritually and psychologically normal person, you must have a spiritually and psychological healthy love for yourself. Wish good for yourself, know and respect both your personal limitations and your personal needs, acknowledge your sins and struggle against them, acknowledge your strengths and virtues *without* pride or vanity. Learn who you are, what your character is. Don't worship yourself, that is what egotism is and that is much of what is intended to be said when so many talk of "self-love" as a bad thing.



My main point is that *loving yourself* is the reference to which we know if we love others. Can we agree that loving means wishing Good to the beloved? That is of foremost importance.


I read through the posts, and I do agree with you in some of them, but I think I have a problem with loving myself as a reference to our ability to love others. I do not think it is the reference. I would be interested in your justification (I have not seen it so far). I do think it is important not to hate yourself and to accept your failings in order to strive to be better. But this is not loving yourself.

I would like to go to a post of yours that made a big impression of me:

Now and then we find in the internet  videos, movies or songs that were not made by Orthodox or with an Orthodox intent but that convey some Orthodox values of aesthetical nature.

Here is a video that I think depicts beautifully the virtue of obedience:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMIOuPxhCVI

I never saw it as a virtue of obedience. I did see it as a depiction of motherhood. And I would include fatherhood in this. It is not a matter of obedience, but of stepping out into society and realizing our role in life.

It is not a matter of loving of oneself which would imply some importance to ourselves. It is a matter of sacrifice, even for those that we dislike.

In terms of dating, I am afraid that I am idealistic about it. At least for some it is your first experience to love someone more than yourself.

On the negative side, I realize that there is an extreme to this view point that I question myself on, idolatry, and I have posted in the past I would start a thread on this topic but I have not done so as of yet.

Hi Fabio, I think it comes down to having very different experiences. The bottom line is that you have seen things that I have not. My youthful experiences are perhaps unusual and not necessarily applicable in this current society. I am still going to argue against the loving yourself bit because I do not see it as useful and possibly dangerous.

A big part of what love is, is whishing good to other people. How will you give what is good to other people if you don't even know what that is for yourself? When Jesus tells us that a blind person cannot guide the blind, that includes having your own personal experience of what is good and of what is love. If you don't have that, you don't know what love is and very probably is just imposing an abstraction onto the other person. Also Jesus taught us that if you can't love what you see, you won't be able to love that which you can't see. That's true when we talk about our neighbor-God, but also from "ourself-our neighbor", because we cannot really see their feelings, see their hearts, literally be in their shoes. But we can see our feelings, hearts and be in our own shoes. A lot of people who insist too much on the "other" simply can't stand themselves, to be on their own shoes. Nothing is more visible to you than yourself. Than your neighbor. Then God. And hopefully, you will one day see God inhabitting in yourself. But if you never learned to look to you in a loving way, you won't see Him there even if He is.
There is nothing overtly objectionable here. But this is my perspective: I love myself enough to know that I am alive when I love others. I do not know what loving myself is. I have a purpose in life and that is what I follow. That purpose is centered around caring for others. I perhaps impose an abstraction onto the other person, in that I want to place myself in their shoes in order to understand what they are feeling and going through even though they do not tell me. When I am loved, and it is not uncommon, while it provides me with strength, the more important aspect is that it provides me with hope. It is the love within others that brings me great joy. They do not even have to be real, my emotional response here is automatic and not governed by logic. This is why I cry when Rugby tiger is singing to the dead catnip toy Mew :
    Old friend, dear friend
    Friend whose gone away
    I want to tell you I love you
    I wish you'd hear
    Things I meant to say
    I want to tell you I love you
    Always you believed in me
    But you never knew
    Old friend, dear friend
    So much I long to say
    First of all, most of all
    I love you

Quote
A lot of people don't get any dates for the simple fact that not even them know what is good for themselves. People love you as much as you love yourself. It's true that the perversion of that makes sick self-worshippers some of the most popular people in the world. But the misuse of something is no excuse to its demonization.

If you want to be loved by a spiritually and psychologically normal person, you must have a spiritually and psychological healthy love for yourself. Wish good for yourself, know and respect both your personal limitations and your personal needs, acknowledge your sins and struggle against them, acknowledge your strengths and virtues *without* pride or vanity. Learn who you are, what your character is. Don't worship yourself, that is what egotism is and that is much of what is intended to be said when so many talk of "self-love" as a bad thing.


I do not have any trouble with this except the need for the psychological healthy love for yourself.

Perhaps this reflects my notion that I was narcissistic in the past and I am overly sensitive about it.

Otherwise this is a wonderful paragraph. I might need convincing of respecting my personal needs however. Enough for survival is good enough for now.

Take care Fabio.
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« Reply #185 on: July 07, 2013, 10:12:35 AM »

The only woman I ever loved broke my heart and I've never loved since then and still frequently dream about her and closed up my heart and became a miserable hermit who hides behind the tough-guy emotionless façade Sad I don't want to love again; it hurts.

Oh, the drama. Roll Eyes

Being an adult is pretty much about going ahead and doing things that you don't like because they're right. Manning up ain't easy.
So you don't have a heart, got it.

Heartbreak is painful stuff, soul crushing, and you tell him to man up.

Ridiculous.
Yep.  What's so heartless about learning to adapt to disappointment in life?  It happens, and will continue to happen.  Life doesn't give out participation trophies. 
Yep. I've determined that Achronos's heart has no brain.
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« Reply #186 on: July 07, 2013, 11:16:29 AM »

This thread has a sad.
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« Reply #187 on: July 07, 2013, 11:43:58 AM »

Feels good to be aromantic.
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« Reply #188 on: July 07, 2013, 11:56:13 AM »

The only woman I ever loved broke my heart and I've never loved since then and still frequently dream about her and closed up my heart and became a miserable hermit who hides behind the tough-guy emotionless façade Sad I don't want to love again; it hurts.

Oh, the drama. Roll Eyes

Being an adult is pretty much about going ahead and doing things that you don't like because they're right. Manning up ain't easy.
So you don't have a heart, got it.

Heartbreak is painful stuff, soul crushing, and you tell him to man up.

Ridiculous.
Yep.  What's so heartless about learning to adapt to disappointment in life?  It happens, and will continue to happen.  Life doesn't give out participation trophies. 
Yep. I've determined that Achronos's heart has no brain.
Nothing to do with "brain". Also Jesus sides with me on this.

Heartbreak is more than a "disappointment" and requires a more dynamic/complex understanding of what goes on in heartbreak. Again, mere words ain't going to get you to that goal. Love expressed has nothing to do with the "brain", either. Love by its very nature is completely illogical.
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« Reply #189 on: July 07, 2013, 11:56:13 AM »

Hey Ja Rule got it right, love is about pain/love is pain. Although he experienced so much (sex)pleasure beyond its limit it became pain. Although I'm not going to Ja Rule for my psychoanalysis anytime soon LOL.
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« Reply #190 on: July 07, 2013, 12:42:50 PM »

deleted. See below.
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« Reply #191 on: July 07, 2013, 12:47:12 PM »

But how mature and how deep can a high school romance really be?

Well my dad knocked my mom up with me in high-school and they got married the moment they turned 18 and their marriage has outlived most "adult" relationships and marriages.
Lee Brice - Love Like Crazy (Official Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0f5g18EbG4

They called them crazy when they started out
Said, "Seventeen's too young to know what loves about"
They've been together fifty-eight years now
That's crazy...

Be a best friend, tell the truth
And overuse "I love you"
Go to work, do your best
Don't outsmart your common sense
Never let your prayin' knees get lazy
And love like crazy
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« Reply #192 on: July 07, 2013, 05:12:09 PM »

The only woman I ever loved broke my heart and I've never loved since then and still frequently dream about her and closed up my heart and became a miserable hermit who hides behind the tough-guy emotionless façade Sad I don't want to love again; it hurts.

Oh, the drama. Roll Eyes

Being an adult is pretty much about going ahead and doing things that you don't like because they're right. Manning up ain't easy.
So you don't have a heart, got it.

Heartbreak is painful stuff, soul crushing, and you tell him to man up.

Ridiculous.
Yep.  What's so heartless about learning to adapt to disappointment in life?  It happens, and will continue to happen.  Life doesn't give out participation trophies. 
Yep. I've determined that Achronos's heart has no brain.
Nothing to do with "brain". Also Jesus sides with me on this.
Prove it.

Heartbreak is more than a "disappointment" and requires a more dynamic/complex understanding of what goes on in heartbreak. Again, mere words ain't going to get you to that goal. Love expressed has nothing to do with the "brain", either. Love by its very nature is completely illogical.
What is the nature of love that it's completely illogical? What is the nature of logic that makes love something totally different? Are you talking about the same love St. Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 13? That description doesn't seem to me to be completely illogical.
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« Reply #193 on: July 07, 2013, 06:25:44 PM »

This thread has a sad.

+1
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« Reply #194 on: July 07, 2013, 06:28:33 PM »

Feels good to be aromantic.

Is aromancy kosher? What do the canons say? Tongue
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« Reply #195 on: July 07, 2013, 07:15:21 PM »

The only woman I ever loved broke my heart and I've never loved since then and still frequently dream about her and closed up my heart and became a miserable hermit who hides behind the tough-guy emotionless façade Sad I don't want to love again; it hurts.

Oh, the drama. Roll Eyes

Being an adult is pretty much about going ahead and doing things that you don't like because they're right. Manning up ain't easy.
So you don't have a heart, got it.

Heartbreak is painful stuff, soul crushing, and you tell him to man up.

Ridiculous.
Yep.  What's so heartless about learning to adapt to disappointment in life?  It happens, and will continue to happen.  Life doesn't give out participation trophies. 
Yep. I've determined that Achronos's heart has no brain.
Nothing to do with "brain". Also Jesus sides with me on this.
Prove it.

Heartbreak is more than a "disappointment" and requires a more dynamic/complex understanding of what goes on in heartbreak. Again, mere words ain't going to get you to that goal. Love expressed has nothing to do with the "brain", either. Love by its very nature is completely illogical.
What is the nature of love that it's completely illogical? What is the nature of logic that makes love something totally different? Are you talking about the same love St. Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 13? That description doesn't seem to me to be completely illogical.
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« Reply #196 on: July 07, 2013, 07:17:25 PM »

The only woman I ever loved broke my heart and I've never loved since then and still frequently dream about her and closed up my heart and became a miserable hermit who hides behind the tough-guy emotionless façade Sad I don't want to love again; it hurts.

Oh, the drama. Roll Eyes

Being an adult is pretty much about going ahead and doing things that you don't like because they're right. Manning up ain't easy.
So you don't have a heart, got it.

Heartbreak is painful stuff, soul crushing, and you tell him to man up.

Ridiculous.
Yep.  What's so heartless about learning to adapt to disappointment in life?  It happens, and will continue to happen.  Life doesn't give out participation trophies.  
Yep. I've determined that Achronos's heart has no brain.
Nothing to do with "brain". Also Jesus sides with me on this.
Prove it.

Heartbreak is more than a "disappointment" and requires a more dynamic/complex understanding of what goes on in heartbreak. Again, mere words ain't going to get you to that goal. Love expressed has nothing to do with the "brain", either. Love by its very nature is completely illogical.
What is the nature of love that it's completely illogical? What is the nature of logic that makes love something totally different? Are you talking about the same love St. Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 13? That description doesn't seem to me to be completely illogical.

When asked for proof of your silly statement that Jesus agrees with you or your equally asinine statement that love is completely illogical, all you can do is post this stupid picture? Huh And you wonder why your opinion is disrespected by so many on this forum. Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 07:20:43 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #197 on: July 07, 2013, 07:20:27 PM »

Is the player in the middle a giant green eyeball?
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« Reply #198 on: July 07, 2013, 07:23:03 PM »

Is the player in the middle a giant green eyeball?
I wonder if it doesn't represent Watson, that computer that played Jeopardy a couple years back. (Maybe some kind of veiled assertion that I'm too much of a logical computer nerd to understand the true nature of love, a gratuitous resort to ad hominem to defend an otherwise indefensible position, IMO)
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« Reply #199 on: July 07, 2013, 08:12:44 PM »

Even algorithms can make significant blunders. Your reply made no sense in the context of what I was talking about, hence the picture.
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« Reply #200 on: July 07, 2013, 08:14:16 PM »

Even algorithms can make significant blunders. Your reply made no sense in the context of what I was talking about, hence the picture.
Well, then, please enlighten us on what you were talking about, and without hiding behind such insulting images.
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« Reply #201 on: July 07, 2013, 08:47:08 PM »

Don't judge a book by it's cover. Ok, maybe consider the cover, but be willing to at least read the introduction. Then if you think the introduction is crap and you find the cover unappealing you can gently put it back on the shelf for someone else to use. You hear me?
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« Reply #202 on: July 07, 2013, 09:12:31 PM »

Don't judge a book by it's cover. Ok, maybe consider the cover, but be willing to at least read the introduction. Then if you think the introduction is crap and you find the cover unappealing you can gently put it back on the shelf for someone else to use. You hear me?
And if the book has a lot of reviews, good or bad, you may want to pass.
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« Reply #203 on: July 07, 2013, 09:17:53 PM »

I haven't dated much at all, much to my parents' disfavor, since they want me to find someone and get out, but is it normal that out of the few girls I have dated, my mother has hated them all and my father has had to keep her from acting hysterical?
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« Reply #204 on: July 07, 2013, 10:26:34 PM »

Psalm 116:1
I said in my haste, every man is a liar!

What is beyond the capacity of human words, even for those who experienced it from the loftiest heights, me trying to explain it with my inferior words and blind heart makes me chief of the liars.

Now with that said, there is nothing worthy of the effort to take a glimpse of or trying to use the eyes of the lofty ones to see the indescribable that grace grants to those who avail themselves to it , so that through grace, may be one day in this world and the next we become fully alive and fully human as we were meant to be.

Why should I love others and how should I love them? Opus(magnificent Opus!) went to the core of why we must love when he said I know I am alive when I love others, and the how is not based on my love for myself. No matter how right it might seem on face value or to our rational mind, self-love does not generate love, it begets hate. It is when you live in,for,and through the other that you love, and you are alive when you love. Our very capacity to truly love comes from the Trinitarian Life. Loving a person is not based on loving yourself that’s what Lucifer knows and what embracing such love ultimately lead him to: hell. Love is communion, which lives out the truth: there is no me without you. Love your neighbor as yourself is a commandment to share in the life of God. To love the one we see as God loves, in unity or oneness. As The Son prayed to The Father ‘That they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that you have sent me’ what is this oneness that will prove that the Father sent Him. If we pay attention to the I in you and the you in me, we get that the argued necessity of initially loving myself alone first has no place in here because there is no me without you, but loving you as me because I am in you as you are in me, then only such oneness is worthy of such love. In this manner we love the person as the person is and we become fully alive.


That is the perfect way, that those who became transformed into a living fire, a living prayer found. A self-emptying, sacrificial love, to live in and through and for the other in the oneness such communion offers. Such love is the manifestation of God in us that makes our love free from egotistical or self-centered love, free from our childish ways ( which make us the center of reference for everything) that enables us to do the most practical, sublime and supreme act of love: Self Sacrifice. A love that compels us to be engaged in all human suffering, the commandment of love given to us by the one who out of love brought us into being : ‘ love one another as I have loved you.’ At the end we are held accountable to that perfect love when the Son says…. I was hungry, I was thirsty, I was sick and imprisoned. The life we call our own really is not ours our very lives and deaths depend on our love for our neighbor. So we see Love is the summit, the Kingdom, the pearl of great price, the Way, the Truth and the Life.


one of the most beautiful poem ever written.

<< 1 Corinthians 13 >>
New International Version   
1If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,b but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
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« Reply #205 on: July 07, 2013, 10:27:50 PM »

I haven't dated much at all, much to my parents' disfavor, since they want me to find someone and get out, but is it normal that out of the few girls I have dated, my mother has hated them all and my father has had to keep her from acting hysterical?

My mother hated every girl I ever introduced until she met my wife.  For whatever reason, she loved her from the first meeting.  Seems moms have a little intuition as I am still married. Cheesy

(And me and mom never got along until I was about 22-23 years old)
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« Reply #206 on: July 08, 2013, 01:18:54 AM »

See Hiwot, I want all of that but without the sacrifices.
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« Reply #207 on: July 08, 2013, 09:38:42 AM »

This thread got eventful.
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« Reply #208 on: July 11, 2013, 04:40:05 PM »

Well, I'm not asking for any lectures or people trying to talk me out of it, I've thought this thoroughly and I know the risks I am getting myself involved in if I do this and how much it could effect our lives. If I have to work three jobs for the rest of my life to support us, then so be it.

I'm going to ask the woman I love to marry me next year. We've been best friends since 6th grade and I didn't get this far for nothing. She's considering leaving for Colorado in August 2014 for college, so I'm sort of rushed into this. I want to ask her to marry me before she leaves in hopes that maybe she'll change her mind or we can at least stay engaged or work something out before she meets a new man over there. My parents will probably kill me, and I may have to "commandeer" my mother's old engagement ring to propose with, but I'm going to propose to this woman no matter what.

What's the best way to go about doing this?
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« Reply #209 on: July 11, 2013, 05:47:32 PM »

James,

When I read your first paragraph, I was going to answer your question by saying, basically, "Follow your heart".  If you really love her, you'll know what to say, how to ask, what to do, and so on.  When it flows from love, it will come naturally.  When it flows from love, she'll know. 

And, in principle, I stand by that. 

But then I read the rest of what you wrote.  I promise, no lecture or talking you out of it.  But if you're doing it hurriedly because you're trying to beat the "Move to Colorado" clock, if your parents will disapprove, and if you have to steal your mom's ring in order to propose (as opposed to her giving it to you propose with), then I'm willing to bet the young lady will not appreciate it as much.  No woman I've ever known wants to be set up to be hated by the in-laws, feel pressured into re-thinking major life issues out of the blue and against a clock, and be the recipient of a ring that was never the guy's to offer to begin with. 

I could be wrong, you know her better than I do, obviously, and you know yourself.  But if you really love her, don't screw this up.  Don't play with her.  These are not light matters.   
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« Reply #210 on: July 11, 2013, 05:57:38 PM »

I think you should start by asking her out on a date. When was the last time you had one with her?
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« Reply #211 on: July 11, 2013, 07:39:12 PM »

Quote
What's the best way to go about doing this?
"Wouldn't it be nice to share my parents' couch with me?"
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« Reply #212 on: July 11, 2013, 09:27:10 PM »

Quote
What's the best way to go about doing this?
"Wouldn't it be nice to share my parents' couch with me?"
laugh

nice one.
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« Reply #213 on: July 11, 2013, 10:01:09 PM »

Well, I'm not asking for any lectures or people trying to talk me out of it, I've thought this thoroughly and I know the risks I am getting myself involved in if I do this and how much it could effect our lives. If I have to work three jobs for the rest of my life to support us, then so be it.

I'm going to ask the woman I love to marry me next year. We've been best friends since 6th grade and I didn't get this far for nothing. She's considering leaving for Colorado in August 2014 for college, so I'm sort of rushed into this. I want to ask her to marry me before she leaves in hopes that maybe she'll change her mind or we can at least stay engaged or work something out before she meets a new man over there. My parents will probably kill me, and I may have to "commandeer" my mother's old engagement ring to propose with, but I'm going to propose to this woman no matter what.

What's the best way to go about doing this?
Honestly, James, with the lack of maturity you've shown on this forum, I would say bluntly that you're not ready to ask the woman you "love" to marry you. It sounds to me from just the post I'm quoting that you want to propose to her for purely selfish reasons. Just let her go.
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« Reply #214 on: July 12, 2013, 02:27:43 AM »

Well, I'm not asking for any lectures or people trying to talk me out of it, I've thought this thoroughly and I know the risks I am getting myself involved in if I do this and how much it could effect our lives. If I have to work three jobs for the rest of my life to support us, then so be it.

I'm going to ask the woman I love to marry me next year. We've been best friends since 6th grade and I didn't get this far for nothing. She's considering leaving for Colorado in August 2014 for college, so I'm sort of rushed into this. I want to ask her to marry me before she leaves in hopes that maybe she'll change her mind or we can at least stay engaged or work something out before she meets a new man over there. My parents will probably kill me, and I may have to "commandeer" my mother's old engagement ring to propose with, but I'm going to propose to this woman no matter what.

What's the best way to go about doing this?
Honestly, James, with the lack of maturity you've shown on this forum, I would say bluntly that you're not ready to ask the woman you "love" to marry you. It sounds to me from just the post I'm quoting that you want to propose to her for purely selfish reasons. Just let her go.

Can you imagine what we'll see around here if she says no?

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« Reply #215 on: July 12, 2013, 02:36:01 AM »

Brace yourselves ladies and gents:

http://orthogals.com/

Quote
Stage 1 – “Getting to know one another.” There is a mutually expressed favorable opinion of each other. You are proceeding with talking and sharing life experiences in the hopes that further green lights or massive red lights will appear. “Getting to know” others simultaneously is allowable. Emoting is kept to a minimum, but you might toss a few “I felt…” in conversation to see how emotionally available and stable the person is, which then tells you if he/she can handle more.

Stage 2 – “Dating”  You don’t know if he is “the one,” but you are open to learning more about that possibility. Because you have marriage in the back of your mind, you are opening up a little more emotionally but not quite an open book. You would be hurt if the guy left at this point, but very little has been invested, so hopefully the wounds heal quickly with little to minimal scarring.

Stage 3 – “Serious dating” You have now stepped it up a level – you still might not know if you want to marry this guy, but instead of merely being open to the idea, both of you are intentionally looking at the other person as a potential mate. You have reached the point where if, upon seeing this person with someone else over coffee, you have a twinge of jealousy and freeze. Before you even ascertain whether the unknown individual is a colleague, cousin, or old family friend, you are deciding whether a 1/5 of whiskey or pound of fudge is your analgesic of choice. Exclusivity in searching defines this stage from the previous stage.

Stage 4 -”Engaged” You have intentionally looked and decided that, yes, you want this person. There had better be one big shocking surprise for it to not go through at this point. Premarital counseling defines this realm.

Well, now that we've cleared up any ambiguities:
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 02:36:08 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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« Reply #216 on: July 13, 2013, 09:11:20 AM »

Quote
What's the best way to go about doing this?
"Wouldn't it be nice to share my parents' couch with me?"

LOOOL!
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« Reply #217 on: July 13, 2013, 09:22:45 AM »

I thought JamesR was on the path to joining a monastery?  I think I even saw a post about that on Facebook from him 2 days ago.
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« Reply #218 on: July 13, 2013, 09:27:13 AM »

I thought JamesR was on the path to joining a monastery?  I think I even saw a post about that on Facebook from him 2 days ago.

He wanted to be a PI as well. Now, Brother Cadfael managed to balance his callings, but even he couldn't get a wife in between the two. Wink
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« Reply #219 on: July 13, 2013, 11:26:44 AM »

I thought JamesR was on the path to joining a monastery?  I think I even saw a post about that on Facebook from him 2 days ago.

He wanted to be a PI as well. Now, Brother Cadfael managed to balance his callings, but even he couldn't get a wife in between the two. Wink

Though I never managed to read the books, I enjoyed the TV adaptation thoroughly!
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« Reply #220 on: July 13, 2013, 11:55:18 PM »

Are you even sexually attracted to your friend? I wouldn't even bother. I know orthonorm downplays sex as being overrated, but I don't see how you could date someone if you did not find them sexually attractive. Unless you are like an asexual type or something.
How important is sexual attraction in developing a long-term relationship?
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« Reply #221 on: July 13, 2013, 11:57:01 PM »

Are you even sexually attracted to your friend? I wouldn't even bother. I know orthonorm downplays sex as being overrated, but I don't see how you could date someone if you did not find them sexually attractive. Unless you are like an asexual type or something.
How important is sexual attraction in developing a long-term relationship?
Well, if its just a friendship, not very.  If you want to marry the person, I would say it's pretty important.  Wink
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« Reply #222 on: July 14, 2013, 12:05:57 AM »

Are you even sexually attracted to your friend? I wouldn't even bother. I know orthonorm downplays sex as being overrated, but I don't see how you could date someone if you did not find them sexually attractive. Unless you are like an asexual type or something.
How important is sexual attraction in developing a long-term relationship?

It has absolutely no value whatsoever in a relationship.  However, if you are looking for a spouse, it would be good to be attracted to the person on some level.  Many people are intellectually attracted to their spouse or some other attraction which isn’t necessarily sexual in origin.  Remember, when you are old, you are both going to be ugly so at that point, it again has absolutely no value.  It is best to build a long term relationship on compatibility, values, friendship, trust and a lot of other things ultimately more important than sexuality.  One can be sexually attracted to a total stranger, and often are, but once they get to know the person, even within a few minutes, realize that’s the only thing the person has going for him/her. 
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« Reply #223 on: July 14, 2013, 12:13:37 AM »

Are you even sexually attracted to your friend? I wouldn't even bother. I know orthonorm downplays sex as being overrated, but I don't see how you could date someone if you did not find them sexually attractive. Unless you are like an asexual type or something.
How important is sexual attraction in developing a long-term relationship?

Sexual attraction is really a non-factor.  If it crosses your mind, put those thoughts to a stop.
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« Reply #224 on: July 14, 2013, 12:52:12 AM »

Part of me says it's very important that you be attracted to your mate since he/she is going to be your only sexual partner forever, but then again, it doesn't matter how attractive you are in your youth because eventually you'll both become old, ugly bags of bones and gray hair. We all will.
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