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Author Topic: Wedding rings?  (Read 2781 times) Average Rating: 0
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yeshuaisiam
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« on: June 20, 2013, 06:41:52 PM »

The scriptures tell us not to adorn ourselves with costly array, including Gold.

Wedding rings were first a tradition of the pagans as well.

Should Christians be wearing them?
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2013, 06:44:35 PM »

Should Christians be wearing them?

Only the married ones.
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 06:45:13 PM »

Do you walk around buck naked all the time?

Unless you do, you're wearing something that costs something.

How much more ridiculous are your threads going to get?
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2013, 06:45:25 PM »

Probably not. But then again, having a way to identify whether or not someone is married is good. I think the question is why does it have to be gold? Why not bronze, aluminum or even plastic? Both will get the job done (although, admittedly, gold doesn't deteriorate as easily over time). Besides, the meaning of the ring consists (or should consist) in the sentimental value of your marriage it represents, not on the quality of metal it is.
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2013, 06:45:58 PM »

Should Christians be wearing them?

Only the married ones.

Do you think gold ones okay despite being forbidden?
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 06:46:17 PM »

Do you walk around buck naked all the time?

Unless you do, you're wearing something that costs something.

How much more ridiculous are your threads going to get?

To be fair, if nudity became legal, I'd be the first one to do away with clothing Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2013, 06:47:49 PM »

Do you walk around buck naked all the time?

Unless you do, you're wearing something that costs something.

How much more ridiculous are your threads going to get?

Well the scriptures were describing gold, pearls, or costly array.  I'm sorry this is ridiculous to you...? I see Christians everywhere wearing gold, yet, the scriptures seem to forbid them.

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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2013, 06:49:50 PM »

Probably not. But then again, having a way to identify whether or not someone is married is good. I think the question is why does it have to be gold? Why not bronze, aluminum or even plastic? Both will get the job done (although, admittedly, gold doesn't deteriorate as easily over time). Besides, the meaning of the ring consists (or should consist) in the sentimental value of your marriage it represents, not on the quality of metal it is.

I agree.  The main question I have is in the material used.   Tungsten will even get the job done and is very tough... 
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2013, 06:50:28 PM »

What are we talking about exactly? I wouldn't consider a $200 wedding ring costly or flashy...
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2013, 06:50:50 PM »

Do you walk around buck naked all the time?

Unless you do, you're wearing something that costs something.

How much more ridiculous are your threads going to get?

To be fair, if nudity became legal, I'd be the first one to do away with clothing Smiley

I think it is in San Francisco.   Embarrassed  Something like that anyway.  I think there are nudists that walk around there.
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2013, 06:52:12 PM »

Do you walk around buck naked all the time?

Unless you do, you're wearing something that costs something.

How much more ridiculous are your threads going to get?

To be fair, if nudity became legal, I'd be the first one to do away with clothing Smiley

I think it is in San Francisco.   Embarrassed  Something like that anyway.  I think there are nudists that walk around there.

Only at our parades Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2013, 06:52:22 PM »

What are we talking about exactly? I wouldn't consider a $200 wedding ring costly or flashy...

Let's talk gold, since that was specifically mentioned in the scriptures.


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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2013, 06:52:43 PM »

What are we talking about exactly? I wouldn't consider a $200 wedding ring costly or flashy...

Let's talk gold, since that was specifically mentioned in the scriptures.

I was talking gold...
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2013, 06:55:16 PM »

What are we talking about exactly? I wouldn't consider a $200 wedding ring costly or flashy...

Let's talk gold, since that was specifically mentioned in the scriptures.

I was talking gold...

Like I guess a man's 10k gold ring could be $200 bucks.   Do you think the scriptures apply to something like this?
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2013, 06:56:22 PM »

Also, what about a woman's ring.  Let's say a $2000 1/2ct. diamond on an 18k gold band.
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« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2013, 06:57:25 PM »

Gold was used in Solomon's temple, and that was O. K.  Specifically, which Scriptures about gold and costly array are you referring to?
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« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2013, 06:57:44 PM »

Should Christians be wearing them?

Only the married ones.

Do you think gold ones okay despite being forbidden?

Like the ones St. Joseph wore in Egypt? Or the one the prodigal son received after his return? Or the ones Judith wore?

The scriptures tell us not to adorn ourselves with costly array, including Gold.

BINGO! Wedding rings are not adornments. They are symbol of God's blessing.

Have you ever been to a betrothal service?

I sometimes feel the Catholic Church was right forbidding people from reading Bibles by themselves.
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« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2013, 06:59:56 PM »

What are we talking about exactly? I wouldn't consider a $200 wedding ring costly or flashy...

Let's talk gold, since that was specifically mentioned in the scriptures.

I was talking gold...

A gold human? ...
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« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2013, 07:01:56 PM »

Should Christians be wearing them?

Only the married ones.

Do you think gold ones okay despite being forbidden?

Like the ones St. Joseph wore in Egypt? Or the one the prodigal son received after his return? Or the ones Judith wore?

The scriptures tell us not to adorn ourselves with costly array, including Gold.

BINGO! Wedding rings are not adornments. They are symbol of God's blessing.

Have you ever been to a betrothal service?

I sometimes feel the Catholic Church was right forbidding people from reading Bibles by themselves.

But the ring on the Prodigal son's hand wasn't mentioned to be gold.
The ring given to Joseph was from Pharaoh, and a pagan... (no mention on the ring being gold, but the necklace was gold).

Yes, I've been to a betrothal service.

This isn't so much about rings, as I'm just wondering what others think about gold/costly rings.  Array is something you wear....
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« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2013, 07:05:44 PM »

Gold was used in Solomon's temple, and that was O. K.  Specifically, which Scriptures about gold and costly array are you referring to?

1 Timothy 2:9 - In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1 Peter 3:3 - Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

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« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2013, 07:12:12 PM »

But the ring on the Prodigal son's hand wasn't mentioned to be gold.
The ring given to Joseph was from Pharaoh, and a pagan... (no mention on the ring being gold, but the necklace was gold).

Yeah, they were from bread.

Gold was used in Solomon's temple, and that was O. K.  Specifically, which Scriptures about gold and costly array are you referring to?

1 Timothy 2:9 - In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1 Peter 3:3 - Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;



You still ignore the "adorning" clause. Wedding rigs are not for adorning. I suppose most people do not feel they make them prettier and wear them for socio-religious reasons.
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« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 07:15:36 PM »

Gold was used in Solomon's temple, and that was O. K.  Specifically, which Scriptures about gold and costly array are you referring to?

That was for the purpose of God though...same with our Icon frames. And even then, several of the Fathers spoke against fancy, expensive adornments for the Church. So if fancy adornments for the Church are barely tolerated, what in the world convinces you that fancy adornments (such as a gold wedding ring) is acceptable for people to wear?
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« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2013, 07:16:05 PM »

But the ring on the Prodigal son's hand wasn't mentioned to be gold.
The ring given to Joseph was from Pharaoh, and a pagan... (no mention on the ring being gold, but the necklace was gold).

Yeah, they were from bread.

Gold was used in Solomon's temple, and that was O. K.  Specifically, which Scriptures about gold and costly array are you referring to?

1 Timothy 2:9 - In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1 Peter 3:3 - Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;



You still ignore the "adorning" clause. Wedding rigs are not for adorning. I suppose most people do not feel they make them prettier and wear them for socio-religious reasons.

But that's my point, as adorning is to make something prettier, or more beautiful, or more attractive... Metals such as Tungsten or stainless steel are more durable, yet gold is used.   Huh
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« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2013, 07:22:34 PM »

Do you really think wedding rings are for adorning?
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« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2013, 07:38:56 PM »

Do you really think wedding rings are for adorning?

That's a good question, just to be sure, here is the definition of adorning -
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/adorning

Adorning is to "make prettier, enhance, beautify, etc."

A wedding ring itself could be made of anything simple.  As stated, tungsten, stainless steel, or even certain types of wood.   Today there are plastics...  I dunno...

But people buy gold, diamonds, etc., in their wedding rings.  It seems like they are indeed "adorning" something that they are wearing, or wearing fancy.

Array definition:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/array

By using the definitions, in context, it seems to state:

Do not "make prettier/fancier your what you wear", such as gold, pearls, hair, etc.

Seems to be an emphasis on plainness.

I agree with the symbolism Michal, it's just the non-plainness of that symbolism that I really question.   Why make fancier/more pretty the symbol with gold/diamonds? 

Just discussing, I'm not particularly conclusive.
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« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2013, 07:44:43 PM »

I wouldn't consider tungsten being more simple than gold.

OK, explain to me how are males who do not wear any jewellery adorned with golden rings? How? Do you think they want such adorning?
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« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2013, 07:45:38 PM »

Could costly/fancy array, gold, etc., have to do with Isaiah 3:18-25?


16 Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:

17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.

18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,

19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,

20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,

21 The rings, and nose jewels,

22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,

23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.

24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.

25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.
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« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2013, 07:48:24 PM »

I wouldn't consider tungsten being more simple than gold.

OK, explain to me how are males who do not wear any jewellery adorned with golden rings? How? Do you think they want such adorning?

I don't know, it's a much less expensive metal.  $10-20 bucks for a tungsten ring.

I don't really know as far as the males go.   I agree it is symbolism, but I'm speaking of the adornment of the ring in and of itself.   Being a simple inexpensive metal rather than an expensive metal.   Not to make the ring "fancier/prettier/enhanced"...
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« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2013, 07:49:04 PM »

From the Orthodox betrothal service:

Lord our God, You journeyed with the servant of the Patriarch Abraham in Mesopotamia when he was sent to obtain a wife for his lord Isaac, and by means of drawing water You revealed that he should betroth Rebecca. Bless the betrothal of Your servants N. and M. and make firm the word that they have spoken. Confirm them with the holy unity that comes from You. For it was You who in the beginning created male and female, and it is by You that woman is linked to man as a helper and for the continuation of the human race. Therefore, Lord our God, who sent truth out to Your inheritance and your promise to your servants, our fathers, your elect in every generation, look on Your servant N. and Your servant M., and make firm their betrothal in faith and concord and truth and love. For it is You, Lord, who declared that times a pledge is to be given and made firm in everything. By a ring authority was given to Joseph in Egypt. By a ring Daniel was glorified in the country of Babylon. By a ring the truth of Thamar was revealed. By a ring our heavenly Father showed compassion to the prodigal son. For he said, ‘Put a ring on his hand and bring out and slay the fatted calf, and let us eat and be joyful’. It was Your right hand, Lord, that armed Moses at the Red Sea, for through Your true word the heavens were made firm and the earth set on its foundations. And the right hand of Your servants will be blessed by Your mighty word and by Your upraised arm. Therefore, Master, with Your heavenly blessing now bless also this putting-on of rings. And may an Angel of the Lord go before them all the days of their lives. For you are the One who blesses and sanctifies all things, and to You we give glory, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and for ever, and to the ages of ages.

The richness of this prayer cannot be underestimated.
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« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2013, 07:54:45 PM »

I wouldn't consider tungsten being more simple than gold.

OK, explain to me how are males who do not wear any jewellery adorned with golden rings? How? Do you think they want such adorning?

Sadly some do. I see men who wear rings who ain't married. Weird to me.

Not a big fan of jewelry here save watches and I don't have the money to collect what I would like.

And I am too rough and tumble to be having all those pinch points around.
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« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2013, 08:02:17 PM »

I wouldn't consider tungsten being more simple than gold.

I don't know, it's a much less expensive metal.  $10-20 bucks for a tungsten ring.

It has some interesting properties gold does not have.
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« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2013, 08:03:28 PM »

From the Orthodox betrothal service:

Lord our God, You journeyed with the servant of the Patriarch Abraham in Mesopotamia when he was sent to obtain a wife for his lord Isaac, and by means of drawing water You revealed that he should betroth Rebecca. Bless the betrothal of Your servants N. and M. and make firm the word that they have spoken. Confirm them with the holy unity that comes from You. For it was You who in the beginning created male and female, and it is by You that woman is linked to man as a helper and for the continuation of the human race. Therefore, Lord our God, who sent truth out to Your inheritance and your promise to your servants, our fathers, your elect in every generation, look on Your servant N. and Your servant M., and make firm their betrothal in faith and concord and truth and love. For it is You, Lord, who declared that times a pledge is to be given and made firm in everything. By a ring authority was given to Joseph in Egypt. By a ring Daniel was glorified in the country of Babylon. By a ring the truth of Thamar was revealed. By a ring our heavenly Father showed compassion to the prodigal son. For he said, ‘Put a ring on his hand and bring out and slay the fatted calf, and let us eat and be joyful’. It was Your right hand, Lord, that armed Moses at the Red Sea, for through Your true word the heavens were made firm and the earth set on its foundations. And the right hand of Your servants will be blessed by Your mighty word and by Your upraised arm. Therefore, Master, with Your heavenly blessing now bless also this putting-on of rings. And may an Angel of the Lord go before them all the days of their lives. For you are the One who blesses and sanctifies all things, and to You we give glory, to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and for ever, and to the ages of ages.

The richness of this prayer cannot be underestimated.


Agree, in consideration,
The ring given to Joseph was by a pagan (not specified gold)
Daniel's lion den was sealed by a pagan with a ring (nebuchadnezzar)
Thamars truth was that she was going to be paid the ring for prostitution (with other stuff)

So that leaves the prodigal son.  Check.

That said, the story does not specify the ring type?   Our other scriptures speak against using gold or rich materials for any type of array.  

I'm more or less thinking about the gold/silver/diamonds in rings... Should Christians be using these riches in their rings?
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« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2013, 08:14:35 PM »

Should Christians be using these riches in their rings?

I feel like you've raised two issues in this thread:

1. Wedding rings are pagan and therefore inappropriate for Christians.
2. Wedding rings are made of costly materials and are therefore inappropriate for Christians (according to a possible interpretation of Scripture).

Which are you more concerned with? If #1, then #2 is a nonstarter.
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« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2013, 08:32:14 PM »

Why do you think tungsten is better than gold?

It's cheaper, but it's still not free; and it's attractive too, in its own way.

Is it just because it's cheaper than gold that you think it's sanctioned by Scripture?

And btw, as a woman who has been married within living memory ( Grin ), I would just like to add that I do NOT wear my gold wedding band and engagement ring because they're "attractive" (although they are!) but because they remind me of the vows that my husband and I made to each other on that most happy of days, six years ago.  Smiley
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« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2013, 09:16:18 PM »

Just to give some historical context, the suggested "non-costly" metals are modern products so they could not have been mentioned in the Bible

Tungsten was not isolated as an element until 1783
http://www.webelements.com/tungsten/

Stainless steel was not produced i quantity until the twentieth century though it is used by some jewelry makers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel

As for plastics, aside from being modern they also can break or have other problems.

Both metals are not very malleable, whereas gold is very soft in comparison.  Gold also does not corrode under normal conditions nor react. 

Would a ring of any of the first three substances somehow not be tainted with a "pagan" connection?

Our marriage is 23 years old and we both wear very plain, narrow bands.  Yes, they're made of gold because it lasts without tarnishing.  They're not "adorning" or flash; they're a symbol of being married.  In our culture they're a traditional symbol and that's all. 

As to some 2K diamond, when we got engaged the diamond industry's slogan that year was "Is two months pay too much for something that will last forever?" 
We both said "Yes."   Wink

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« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2013, 09:37:09 PM »

Its not from pagan traditions. Wedding rings were used in the Jewish betrothal ceremony and are still used in the Orthodox betrothal ceremony. They are holy sacramentals. If you think the rings are "costly array", you should see the Orthodox marriage crowns. Nothing is particularly wrong with "adorning yourself". The problem comes when the glare of the jewels blind ones humility.
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« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2013, 09:56:47 PM »

I wouldn't consider tungsten being more simple than gold.

OK, explain to me how are males who do not wear any jewellery adorned with golden rings? How? Do you think they want such adorning?

I don't know, it's a much less expensive metal.  $10-20 bucks for a tungsten ring.

My 10K gold wedding band cost $35. My wife's was $25.
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« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2013, 10:33:35 PM »

Should Christians be wearing them?

Only the married ones.

Do you think gold ones okay despite being forbidden?

They are only forbidden in your mind.
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« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2013, 10:37:33 PM »

The scriptures tell us not to adorn ourselves with costly array, including Gold.

Wedding rings were first a tradition of the pagans as well.

Should Christians be wearing them?

 Interesting topic.  There's nothing wrong with wedding rings as they've been integrated into Christian tradition long ago.  I do think it's ridiculous how much people dole out for rings (and weddings for that matter) these days.  If anything, that might be the sin.    
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« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2013, 11:01:43 PM »

Gold was used in Solomon's temple, and that was O. K.  Specifically, which Scriptures about gold and costly array are you referring to?
1 Timothy 2:9 - In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1 Peter 3:3 - Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;


I once heard that the dress that St. Paul was referring to was the dress of a prostitute.  In those days, prostitutes presented themselves in that fashion.  These days, I know many women who wear there hair in braids from time to time, in order to keep cool in summer.  If anyone thought they did so for the reason St. Paul wrote about, they would get a slap in the face.  In addition, the Orthodox Study Bible translates 1 Peter 3:3-4 as "Do not let your adornment be merely outward--arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel-- rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God."  I Peter 3:3-4 does not forbid gold, but is referring to people's attitude.
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« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2013, 11:33:42 PM »

Agree, in consideration,
The ring given to Joseph was by a pagan (not specified gold)
Daniel's lion den was sealed by a pagan with a ring (nebuchadnezzar)
Thamars truth was that she was going to be paid the ring for prostitution (with other stuff)

So that leaves the prodigal son.  Check.

That said, the story does not specify the ring type?   Our other scriptures speak against using gold or rich materials for any type of array.  

I'm more or less thinking about the gold/silver/diamonds in rings... Should Christians be using these riches in their rings?

Quote from: Genesis 24:52-53
When Abraham’s servant heard their words, he bowed himself to the ground before the Lord. And the servant brought out jewelry of silver and of gold, and garments, and gave them to Rebekah; he also gave to her brother and to her mother costly ornaments.

Quote from: 1 Peter 3:5
It was in this way long ago that the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves by accepting the authority of their husbands.
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« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2013, 01:01:00 AM »

How much more ridiculous are your threads going to get?

I hope this wasn't meant as a challenge. Wink
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« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2013, 01:02:42 AM »

How much more ridiculous are your threads going to get?

I hope this wasn't meant as a challenge. Wink

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« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2013, 01:10:43 AM »

Agree, in consideration,
The ring given to Joseph was by a pagan (not specified gold)
Daniel's lion den was sealed by a pagan with a ring (nebuchadnezzar)
Thamars truth was that she was going to be paid the ring for prostitution (with other stuff)

So that leaves the prodigal son.  Check.

That said, the story does not specify the ring type?   Our other scriptures speak against using gold or rich materials for any type of array.  

I'm more or less thinking about the gold/silver/diamonds in rings... Should Christians be using these riches in their rings?

Do you and your wife wear wedding/engagement rings?  If you don't, then why do you care what other people do?
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« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2013, 08:20:12 AM »

My wedding ring is made from enriched uranium.  Not flashy at all, but I do seem to continually develop tumors on my finger.
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