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Author Topic: AMA Labels Obesity a Disease  (Read 4179 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2013, 11:00:04 PM »

Eating too many carbs = Insulin imbalance = Obesity

People were told to stop eating fat and to eat lots of carbs = Not their fault

Not that I agree with everything Pollan says, but I think he's right when he says that most traditional diets can be healthy, regardless of what the macronutrient ratios are.
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« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2013, 11:00:48 PM »

Eating too many carbs = Insulin imbalance = Obesity

People were told to stop eating fat and to eat lots of carbs = Not their fault

It is not the carbs, Marc, but the sugar that causes insulin imbalance.

Now that I have given up eating sugar (and processed foods), I have lost weight, and my blood sugar is in better balance. Before I was severely hypoglycemic, so that after eating a meal, my blood sugar would spike to about 180 or more and then drop like rock to 34 where I would faint. Doctor said that I could die when my blood sugar level fell below 45.

Ha, I am also eating more butter and more cheese. That keeps me from getting hunger pains and keeps me from craving sugar and simple carbohydrates.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 11:02:35 PM by Maria » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2013, 11:06:49 PM »

When these folks finally find out if eggs are good or bad for you, then I may take them seriously.
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« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2013, 11:10:22 PM »

That's not fair. Not all overweight people eat like that.

In fact, I believe many are overweight due to lack of activity, instead of overeating.

We sit at work all day, sit on the drive home, sit at our computers in the evening...

We just don't move enough.

I know that is my problem.
You are correct, of course. Either way, its not a disease. Whether by eating or inaction, its the fat person's fault (except in some cases like glandular stuff, etc) and its the fat person's job to fix it.

PP

There are many other factors. And it's not like fixing a car.
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« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2013, 11:11:48 PM »

So obesity is a disease?  Translation:  nothing is your own damned fault.

Idiocy is also a disease.
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« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2013, 11:12:07 PM »

Eating too many carbs = Insulin imbalance = Obesity

People were told to stop eating fat and to eat lots of carbs = Not their fault

It is not the carbs, Marc, but the sugar that causes insulin imbalance.

Now that I have given up eating sugar (and processed foods), I have lost weight, and my blood sugar is in better balance. Before I was severely hypoglycemic, so that after eating a meal, my blood sugar would spike to about 180 or more and then drop like rock to 34 where I would faint. Doctor said that I could die when my blood sugar level fell below 45.

Ha, I am also eating more butter and more cheese. That keeps me from getting hunger pains and keeps me from craving sugar and simple carbohydrates.

Sugar is a carbohydrate. In fact when you eat grains your body quickly converts it into a simple sugar. For example, one slice of whole wheat bread is equal to eating three teaspoons of table sugar.

You are correct sugar is the main culprit, especially high fructose corn syrup which is cheap to make and put into everything.

Foods are either Fat, Protein or Carbohydrate  

Thumbs up on the Butter !
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« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2013, 11:14:09 PM »

When these folks finally find out if eggs are good or bad for you, then I may take them seriously.

Eggs are good, very good

Next question?
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« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2013, 11:16:42 PM »

...
So yeah, you all just go right ahead and laugh at those stupid funny fat people and tell us how they all just need to stop eating those extra helpings of fries.

Me, I'm not going to laugh because there but for the grace of God ... well, you know the rest. (or at least you should  Roll Eyes )...

If my posts came across that way, I apologize.
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« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2013, 11:20:30 PM »

...
So yeah, you all just go right ahead and laugh at those stupid funny fat people and tell us how they all just need to stop eating those extra helpings of fries.

Me, I'm not going to laugh because there but for the grace of God ... well, you know the rest. (or at least you should  Roll Eyes )...

If my posts came across that way, I apologize.

Not you personally, Asteriktos, but I'll gladly accept your apology anyway, as I can always use 'em!  Grin
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« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2013, 11:26:05 PM »

When these folks finally find out if eggs are good or bad for you, then I may take them seriously.

Eggs are good, very good

Next question?
So is cheesecake
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« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2013, 11:31:53 PM »

When these folks finally find out if eggs are good or bad for you, then I may take them seriously.

Eggs are good, very good

Next question?
So is cheesecake

Cheese is good especially fattier cheeses and raw cheese more so

Cheese cake is full of sugar, so it's not good for you and it has a crust made from flour (grains) also not good.

See? This is easy !
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« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2013, 11:40:09 PM »

When these folks finally find out if eggs are good or bad for you, then I may take them seriously.

Eggs are good, very good

Next question?
So is cheesecake

Cheese is good especially fattier cheeses and raw cheese more so

Cheese cake is full of sugar, so it's not good for you and it has a crust made from flour (grains) also not good.

See? This is easy !
You were talking about flavor, yes?

Eggs go back and forth every other year since I was a child.  They categorize food differently every few years.  Vegetables become fruits, and so on.  They say stuff in an attempt to remain relevant.  I eat eggs regardless of what they say.  Cheesecake in moderation.  I'm not fat and when I was a little heavy for me at 204, exercise solved that problem.  No disease.

Some folks suffer from conditions which make them fat and they can't help it, but the fatness isn't a disease, it's the result of their condition.  Now, if bleeding is a disease being fat can be too, but like being fat, something else caused it. 
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Marc1152
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« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2013, 11:49:15 PM »

When these folks finally find out if eggs are good or bad for you, then I may take them seriously.

Eggs are good, very good

Next question?
So is cheesecake

Cheese is good especially fattier cheeses and raw cheese more so

Cheese cake is full of sugar, so it's not good for you and it has a crust made from flour (grains) also not good.

See? This is easy !
You were talking about flavor, yes?

Eggs go back and forth every other year since I was a child.  They categorize food differently every few years.  Vegetables become fruits, and so on.  They say stuff in an attempt to remain relevant.  I eat eggs regardless of what they say.  Cheesecake in moderation.  I'm not fat and when I was a little heavy for me at 204, exercise solved that problem.  No disease.

Some folks suffer from conditions which make them fat and they can't help it, but the fatness isn't a disease, it's the result of their condition.  Now, if bleeding is a disease being fat can be too, but like being fat, something else caused it.  

Sorta right. Something else caused the obesity. That cause is insulin imbalance. People were told to eat the very things that cause this imbalance. People did what they were told and they got obese as a result. So youre right, the excess body fat is the outward manifestation of this condition.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 11:49:48 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2013, 12:27:13 AM »

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

This is the question that needs an answer before posting this way or that ZealousZeal. We need to listen to Alpacas more often.
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« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2013, 12:48:28 AM »

When these folks finally find out if eggs are good or bad for you, then I may take them seriously.

Eggs are good, very good

Next question?
So is cheesecake

Cheese is good especially fattier cheeses and raw cheese more so

Cheese cake is full of sugar, so it's not good for you and it has a crust made from flour (grains) also not good.

See? This is easy !
You were talking about flavor, yes?

Eggs go back and forth every other year since I was a child.  They categorize food differently every few years.  Vegetables become fruits, and so on.  They say stuff in an attempt to remain relevant.  I eat eggs regardless of what they say.  Cheesecake in moderation.  I'm not fat and when I was a little heavy for me at 204, exercise solved that problem.  No disease.

Some folks suffer from conditions which make them fat and they can't help it, but the fatness isn't a disease, it's the result of their condition.  Now, if bleeding is a disease being fat can be too, but like being fat, something else caused it. 

If you eat two dozen eggs fried in bacon grease then go play world of warcraft for 12 hours you might have a problem.

If you eat a couple eggs and then move around a bit they are very healthy.
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« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2013, 12:53:47 AM »

Exercise doesn't help with weight loss all that much. As you expend energy you get hungry. More exercise, more eating.

Just like when people used to take a walk before a big meal to "Work up an appetite".
Of course building muscle mass will help some but most results will come from eating properly not from working out.

This particular post irks me. It is totally anecdotal from a single source (you) and metabolically makes little sense.  You should elaborate. In doing so, include expressions like "I am too exhausted to eat". A feeling that often occurs to me.

I cannot comment much on this thread because I have never, ever, had a weight problem. I am right now the same weight as when I was a freshman in high school (about 130 and I have ranged between 125-140, the low end during lent). I never paid attention to carbs, fat, fast food, etc. Is it solely genetic? Doubtful. Is it genetic at all? My guess is that it would be a minor contributor at most. Is it lifestyle? I would guess that this is the major contributor. Does a low carb diet make sense. Yes, but it is clear to me that this was never the problem.
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« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2013, 12:55:29 AM »

When these folks finally find out if eggs are good or bad for you, then I may take them seriously.

Eggs are good, very good

Next question?
So is cheesecake

Cheese is good especially fattier cheeses and raw cheese more so

Cheese cake is full of sugar, so it's not good for you and it has a crust made from flour (grains) also not good.

See? This is easy !
You were talking about flavor, yes?

Eggs go back and forth every other year since I was a child.  They categorize food differently every few years.  Vegetables become fruits, and so on.  They say stuff in an attempt to remain relevant.  I eat eggs regardless of what they say.  Cheesecake in moderation.  I'm not fat and when I was a little heavy for me at 204, exercise solved that problem.  No disease.

Some folks suffer from conditions which make them fat and they can't help it, but the fatness isn't a disease, it's the result of their condition.  Now, if bleeding is a disease being fat can be too, but like being fat, something else caused it. 

If you eat two dozen eggs fried in bacon grease then go play world of warcraft for 12 hours you might have a problem.

If you eat a couple eggs and then move around a bit they are very healthy.

Stop this Vamrat. I do not want to agree with you right now. Maybe tomorrow.
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« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2013, 09:09:32 AM »

When these folks finally find out if eggs are good or bad for you, then I may take them seriously.

Eggs are good, very good

Next question?
So is cheesecake

Cheese is good especially fattier cheeses and raw cheese more so

Cheese cake is full of sugar, so it's not good for you and it has a crust made from flour (grains) also not good.

See? This is easy !
You were talking about flavor, yes?

Eggs go back and forth every other year since I was a child.  They categorize food differently every few years.  Vegetables become fruits, and so on.  They say stuff in an attempt to remain relevant.  I eat eggs regardless of what they say.  Cheesecake in moderation.  I'm not fat and when I was a little heavy for me at 204, exercise solved that problem.  No disease.

Some folks suffer from conditions which make them fat and they can't help it, but the fatness isn't a disease, it's the result of their condition.  Now, if bleeding is a disease being fat can be too, but like being fat, something else caused it. 

If you eat two dozen eggs fried in bacon grease then go play world of warcraft for 12 hours you might have a problem.

If you eat a couple eggs and then move around a bit they are very healthy.

Stop this Vamrat. I do not want to agree with you right now. Maybe tomorrow.

What's wrong with agreeing with the wizened Vamrat?  Are you a secret Orthonormite?   Tongue
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« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2013, 10:13:11 AM »

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

Now, there's a can of worms!  Doctors (the vast majority of whom do NOT belong to the AMA, btw) and opinions and definitions.  Grin Grin
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« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2013, 10:14:56 AM »

So obesity is a disease?  Translation:  nothing is your own damned fault.

Idiocy is also a disease.

Usually incurable.  It's also an activity, like work.  That aspect of it, however, is curable (well, at least treatable.)
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« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2013, 11:15:07 AM »

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

This is the question that needs an answer before posting this way or that ZealousZeal. We need to listen to Alpacas more often.

Would you not lable other hormone imbalances as diseases? If you are a female and have a hormonal imbalance due to menopause isnt that a disease?
If you have an over active thyroid or underactive, isnt that a disease? How about adrenal exhaustion or type 1 diabetes.

Obesity is due to metabolic syndrome ( too much insulin being pumped into your system). You develp this condition from eating foods that the f ing Government told you were healthy and that you should eat lots of. It is also exacerbated by suger which the food industry has pumped into all kinds of foods when they took out the fat.

So Obesity is the main symptom of a metabolic disorder caused by a hormonal imbalance..   

But people have been led to think obesity is due to eating too much because of lack of will power.. It's about time that little nugget got put to rest.

Its not really how much you eat but what you eat.. Here is an article about a man who did an experiment on himself. He ate 5,800 calories for one month of Low Carb, High Fat foods and didnt really gain weight, only 3.5 pounds. But if you did the conventional math he should have gained much much more.. On the other hand, people who ate junk food as an experiment ( "Super Size Me" ) gain lots of weight..

http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet

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« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2013, 12:38:46 PM »

Exercise doesn't help with weight loss all that much. As you expend energy you get hungry. More exercise, more eating.

Just like when people used to take a walk before a big meal to "Work up an appetite".
Of course building muscle mass will help some but most results will come from eating properly not from working out.

This particular post irks me. It is totally anecdotal from a single source (you) and metabolically makes little sense.  You should elaborate. In doing so, include expressions like "I am too exhausted to eat". A feeling that often occurs to me.

I cannot comment much on this thread because I have never, ever, had a weight problem. I am right now the same weight as when I was a freshman in high school (about 130 and I have ranged between 125-140, the low end during lent). I never paid attention to carbs, fat, fast food, etc. Is it solely genetic? Doubtful. Is it genetic at all? My guess is that it would be a minor contributor at most. Is it lifestyle? I would guess that this is the major contributor. Does a low carb diet make sense. Yes, but it is clear to me that this was never the problem.

Actually there is a lot of back up for the observation that the more you exercise the hungrier you become. I will look for references when I am not at work and post for you.

As we said before, there is a big genetic component to body shape and size and where you deposit fat. Women on hips, men on the belly for one simple example. If you parents are thick and stocky, you are predisposed to that as well.

 If you are lean looking and dont watch what you eat you may become what they call "Skinny-Fat".. You still develop all the bad health markers but remain lean..

For example, if you eat lots of carbs you may still exacerbate  low grade inflammation which is a main cause of heart disease. If you still eat carbs and sugar you still increase your odds of getting cancer. Cancer cells love sugar, but you still are lean looking.

The marathon runner Jim Fixx is the most famous example of a person who was very very lean, got tons of exercise but ate a high carb diet and dropped dead of a massive coronary. He was "Skinny-Fat"  R.I.P.



 
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« Reply #67 on: June 21, 2013, 09:13:06 PM »

From Mayo Clinic Blog:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/exercise-and-hunger/MY02431

 It appears that some people are more likely than others to compensate for the energy burned during exercise. In other words, some people's bodies are more geared toward maintaining a calorie balance. If they burn energy during exercise, they want to eat to replace it.

While it has long been thought that exercise diminishes appetite, this is not a universal truth. Some individuals find that hard exercise can increase their appetite. Scientists have confirmed that some people have an increased level of appetite hormones that drives eating after exercise.
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« Reply #68 on: June 21, 2013, 11:23:49 PM »

Reply 1 for post 1:

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

This is the question that needs an answer before posting this way or that ZealousZeal. We need to listen to Alpacas more often.

Would you not lable other hormone imbalances as diseases? If you are a female and have a hormonal imbalance due to menopause isnt that a disease?
If you have an over active thyroid or underactive, isnt that a disease? How about adrenal exhaustion or type 1 diabetes.

Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.

I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

Obesity is due to metabolic syndrome ( too much insulin being pumped into your system). You develp this condition from eating foods that the f ing Government told you were healthy and that you should eat lots of. It is also exacerbated by suger which the food industry has pumped into all kinds of foods when they took out the fat.

So Obesity is the main symptom of a metabolic disorder caused by a hormonal imbalance..   


Hormonal imbalance is caused by being overweight. Do you disagree with this and would you care to cite references?


But people have been led to think obesity is due to eating too much because of lack of will power.. It's about time that little nugget got put to rest.

Its not really how much you eat but what you eat.. Here is an article about a man who did an experiment on himself. He ate 5,800 calories for one month of Low Carb, High Fat foods and didnt really gain weight, only 3.5 pounds. But if you did the conventional math he should have gained much much more.. On the other hand, people who ate junk food as an experiment ( "Super Size Me" ) gain lots of weight..

http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet




It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life. (I expect some may hate me for this statement), but if you are sitting or lying down reading you are indulging yourself, you can do it standing up as well with just as much pleasure.

By the way your buff man is so full of holes it is not worth commenting on it. My personal example refutes this explicitly. You seem to have automatic responses without reading the posts. More about this in you next post in which you try to confuse the issue.

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« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2013, 11:32:12 PM »

How you lose weight: make your caloric output higher than your caloric intake.

How you gain weight: make your caloric intake higher than your caloric output.
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« Reply #70 on: June 21, 2013, 11:40:29 PM »

Exercise doesn't help with weight loss all that much. As you expend energy you get hungry. More exercise, more eating.

Just like when people used to take a walk before a big meal to "Work up an appetite".
Of course building muscle mass will help some but most results will come from eating properly not from working out.

This particular post irks me. It is totally anecdotal from a single source (you) and metabolically makes little sense.  You should elaborate. In doing so, include expressions like "I am too exhausted to eat". A feeling that often occurs to me.

I cannot comment much on this thread because I have never, ever, had a weight problem. I am right now the same weight as when I was a freshman in high school (about 130 and I have ranged between 125-140, the low end during lent). I never paid attention to carbs, fat, fast food, etc. Is it solely genetic? Doubtful. Is it genetic at all? My guess is that it would be a minor contributor at most. Is it lifestyle? I would guess that this is the major contributor. Does a low carb diet make sense. Yes, but it is clear to me that this was never the problem.

Actually there is a lot of back up for the observation that the more you exercise the hungrier you become. I will look for references when I am not at work and post for you.

As we said before, there is a big genetic component to body shape and size and where you deposit fat. Women on hips, men on the belly for one simple example. If you parents are thick and stocky, you are predisposed to that as well.

 If you are lean looking and dont watch what you eat you may become what they call "Skinny-Fat".. You still develop all the bad health markers but remain lean..

For example, if you eat lots of carbs you may still exacerbate  low grade inflammation which is a main cause of heart disease. If you still eat carbs and sugar you still increase your odds of getting cancer. Cancer cells love sugar, but you still are lean looking.

The marathon runner Jim Fixx is the most famous example of a person who was very very lean, got tons of exercise but ate a high carb diet and dropped dead of a massive coronary. He was "Skinny-Fat"  R.I.P.



 


This is crap Marc and you should know it. "Skinny-Fat" my foot. What is the lifespan of women in the United States? We know that many do not cook these days, but from my experience they all bake cookies, cakes and pies and they personally eat them. It is an American tradition.

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« Reply #71 on: June 21, 2013, 11:42:52 PM »

Reply 1 for post 1:

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

This is the question that needs an answer before posting this way or that ZealousZeal. We need to listen to Alpacas more often.

Would you not lable other hormone imbalances as diseases? If you are a female and have a hormonal imbalance due to menopause isnt that a disease?
If you have an over active thyroid or underactive, isnt that a disease? How about adrenal exhaustion or type 1 diabetes.

Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.

I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

Obesity is due to metabolic syndrome ( too much insulin being pumped into your system). You develp this condition from eating foods that the f ing Government told you were healthy and that you should eat lots of. It is also exacerbated by suger which the food industry has pumped into all kinds of foods when they took out the fat.

So Obesity is the main symptom of a metabolic disorder caused by a hormonal imbalance..  


Hormonal imbalance is caused by being overweight. Do you disagree with this and would you care to cite references?


But people have been led to think obesity is due to eating too much because of lack of will power.. It's about time that little nugget got put to rest.

Its not really how much you eat but what you eat.. Here is an article about a man who did an experiment on himself. He ate 5,800 calories for one month of Low Carb, High Fat foods and didnt really gain weight, only 3.5 pounds. But if you did the conventional math he should have gained much much more.. On the other hand, people who ate junk food as an experiment ( "Super Size Me" ) gain lots of weight..

http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet




It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life. (I expect some may hate me for this statement), but if you are sitting or lying down reading you are indulging yourself, you can do it standing up as well with just as much pleasure.

By the way your buff man is so full of holes it is not worth commenting on it. My personal example refutes this explicitly. You seem to have automatic responses without reading the posts. More about this in you next post in which you try to confuse the issue.



Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.


We have evolved over a span of 2 million years. Eskimo's are not the only people who have bodies designed to live a hunter gatherer life. We all have basically the same genetic make up as our Paleolithic ancestors. Agriculture has only been around for 10,000 years which is not long enough for significant evolutionary changes.


I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

What in the world are you talking about? Just stick to the topic and give your options and evidence and all will be fine.  

It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life.

Obesity is caused by too much insulin directing your body to hold on to fat. It has nothing to do with depression or sloth or inactivity or even eating too many calories.

Here, spend an hour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpavkD7ot8I
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« Reply #72 on: June 21, 2013, 11:45:15 PM »

How you lose weight: make your caloric output higher than your caloric intake.

How you gain weight: make your caloric intake higher than your caloric output.

Thanks William. This is not the issue apparently. The issue is whether a human being can do this.

Much of this is psychological rather that physical, unfortunately.

You get out of this syndrome by not fearing death. I hope to get to this point while I still have energy.
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« Reply #73 on: June 21, 2013, 11:46:45 PM »

Exercise doesn't help with weight loss all that much. As you expend energy you get hungry. More exercise, more eating.

Just like when people used to take a walk before a big meal to "Work up an appetite".
Of course building muscle mass will help some but most results will come from eating properly not from working out.

This particular post irks me. It is totally anecdotal from a single source (you) and metabolically makes little sense.  You should elaborate. In doing so, include expressions like "I am too exhausted to eat". A feeling that often occurs to me.

I cannot comment much on this thread because I have never, ever, had a weight problem. I am right now the same weight as when I was a freshman in high school (about 130 and I have ranged between 125-140, the low end during lent). I never paid attention to carbs, fat, fast food, etc. Is it solely genetic? Doubtful. Is it genetic at all? My guess is that it would be a minor contributor at most. Is it lifestyle? I would guess that this is the major contributor. Does a low carb diet make sense. Yes, but it is clear to me that this was never the problem.

Actually there is a lot of back up for the observation that the more you exercise the hungrier you become. I will look for references when I am not at work and post for you.

As we said before, there is a big genetic component to body shape and size and where you deposit fat. Women on hips, men on the belly for one simple example. If you parents are thick and stocky, you are predisposed to that as well.

 If you are lean looking and dont watch what you eat you may become what they call "Skinny-Fat".. You still develop all the bad health markers but remain lean..

For example, if you eat lots of carbs you may still exacerbate  low grade inflammation which is a main cause of heart disease. If you still eat carbs and sugar you still increase your odds of getting cancer. Cancer cells love sugar, but you still are lean looking.

The marathon runner Jim Fixx is the most famous example of a person who was very very lean, got tons of exercise but ate a high carb diet and dropped dead of a massive coronary. He was "Skinny-Fat"  R.I.P.



 


This is crap Marc and you should know it. "Skinny-Fat" my foot. What is the lifespan of women in the United States? We know that many do not cook these days, but from my experience they all bake cookies, cakes and pies and they personally eat them. It is an American tradition.



Life spans of men and women are getting much closer. Women who have high cholesterol live the longest.. Go figure
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« Reply #74 on: June 21, 2013, 11:47:49 PM »

Nothing brings out the self-righteousness more than this topic.
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« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2013, 11:48:25 PM »

How you lose weight: make your caloric output higher than your caloric intake.

How you gain weight: make your caloric intake higher than your caloric output.

So goes the myth.
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« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2013, 11:51:04 PM »

Reply 1 for post 1:

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

This is the question that needs an answer before posting this way or that ZealousZeal. We need to listen to Alpacas more often.

Would you not lable other hormone imbalances as diseases? If you are a female and have a hormonal imbalance due to menopause isnt that a disease?
If you have an over active thyroid or underactive, isnt that a disease? How about adrenal exhaustion or type 1 diabetes.

Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.

I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

Obesity is due to metabolic syndrome ( too much insulin being pumped into your system). You develp this condition from eating foods that the f ing Government told you were healthy and that you should eat lots of. It is also exacerbated by suger which the food industry has pumped into all kinds of foods when they took out the fat.

So Obesity is the main symptom of a metabolic disorder caused by a hormonal imbalance..  


Hormonal imbalance is caused by being overweight. Do you disagree with this and would you care to cite references?


But people have been led to think obesity is due to eating too much because of lack of will power.. It's about time that little nugget got put to rest.

Its not really how much you eat but what you eat.. Here is an article about a man who did an experiment on himself. He ate 5,800 calories for one month of Low Carb, High Fat foods and didnt really gain weight, only 3.5 pounds. But if you did the conventional math he should have gained much much more.. On the other hand, people who ate junk food as an experiment ( "Super Size Me" ) gain lots of weight..

http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet




It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life. (I expect some may hate me for this statement), but if you are sitting or lying down reading you are indulging yourself, you can do it standing up as well with just as much pleasure.

By the way your buff man is so full of holes it is not worth commenting on it. My personal example refutes this explicitly. You seem to have automatic responses without reading the posts. More about this in you next post in which you try to confuse the issue.



Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.


We have evolved over a span of 2 million years. Eskimo's are not the only people who have bodies designed to live a hunter gatherer life. We all have basically the same genetic make up as our Paleolithic ancestors. Agriculture has only been around for 10,000 years which is not long enough for significant evolutionary changes.


I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

What in the world are you talking about? Just stick to the topic and give your options and evidence and all will be fine.  

It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life.

Obesity is caused by too much insulin directing your body to hold on to fat. It has nothing to do with depression or sloth or inactivity or even eating too many calories.

Here, spend an hour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpavkD7ot8I

Marc, I am not going to address your new posts until I address your old posts. That is just the way I am. I can only grapple with one thing at a time. If you want a back and forth post between 7-9pm pst, not when I am at work.

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« Reply #77 on: June 22, 2013, 12:07:48 AM »

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

This is the question that needs an answer before posting this way or that ZealousZeal. We need to listen to Alpacas more often.

Just as an example, when you Google "disease definition" you get:

Quote
1. A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, esp. one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury

2. A particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people

I think obesity falls under the umbrella of each.

I tried to search around a bit to see if I could find the AMA's definition (since that's the one that counts here) and couldn't find it.
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« Reply #78 on: June 22, 2013, 12:16:17 AM »

Reply 1 for post 1:

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

This is the question that needs an answer before posting this way or that ZealousZeal. We need to listen to Alpacas more often.

Would you not lable other hormone imbalances as diseases? If you are a female and have a hormonal imbalance due to menopause isnt that a disease?
If you have an over active thyroid or underactive, isnt that a disease? How about adrenal exhaustion or type 1 diabetes.

Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.

I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

Obesity is due to metabolic syndrome ( too much insulin being pumped into your system). You develp this condition from eating foods that the f ing Government told you were healthy and that you should eat lots of. It is also exacerbated by suger which the food industry has pumped into all kinds of foods when they took out the fat.

So Obesity is the main symptom of a metabolic disorder caused by a hormonal imbalance..  


Hormonal imbalance is caused by being overweight. Do you disagree with this and would you care to cite references?


But people have been led to think obesity is due to eating too much because of lack of will power.. It's about time that little nugget got put to rest.

Its not really how much you eat but what you eat.. Here is an article about a man who did an experiment on himself. He ate 5,800 calories for one month of Low Carb, High Fat foods and didnt really gain weight, only 3.5 pounds. But if you did the conventional math he should have gained much much more.. On the other hand, people who ate junk food as an experiment ( "Super Size Me" ) gain lots of weight..

http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet




It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life. (I expect some may hate me for this statement), but if you are sitting or lying down reading you are indulging yourself, you can do it standing up as well with just as much pleasure.

By the way your buff man is so full of holes it is not worth commenting on it. My personal example refutes this explicitly. You seem to have automatic responses without reading the posts. More about this in you next post in which you try to confuse the issue.



Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.


We have evolved over a span of 2 million years. Eskimo's are not the only people who have bodies designed to live a hunter gatherer life. We all have basically the same genetic make up as our Paleolithic ancestors. Agriculture has only been around for 10,000 years which is not long enough for significant evolutionary changes.


I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

What in the world are you talking about? Just stick to the topic and give your options and evidence and all will be fine.  

It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life.

Obesity is caused by too much insulin directing your body to hold on to fat. It has nothing to do with depression or sloth or inactivity or even eating too many calories.

Here, spend an hour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpavkD7ot8I

Marc, I am not going to address your new posts until I address your old posts. That is just the way I am. I can only grapple with one thing at a time. If you want a back and forth post between 7-9pm pst, not when I am at work.



I was not aware that this was a debate between me and you Smiley  Post whatever you want whenever you want. I will do the same.
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« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2013, 12:18:36 AM »

How you lose weight: make your caloric output higher than your caloric intake.

How you gain weight: make your caloric intake higher than your caloric output.

So goes the myth.

How's it a myth?
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« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2013, 12:21:56 AM »

From Mayo Clinic Blog:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/exercise-and-hunger/MY02431

 It appears that some people are more likely than others to compensate for the energy burned during exercise. In other words, some people's bodies are more geared toward maintaining a calorie balance. If they burn energy during exercise, they want to eat to replace it.

While it has long been thought that exercise diminishes appetite, this is not a universal truth. Some individuals find that hard exercise can increase their appetite. Scientists have confirmed that some people have an increased level of appetite hormones that drives eating after exercise.

One. I do not believe in exercise. I believe in activity. Exercise is unnecessary.

Like my polynesian example, some people are geared for not wasting potential energy.

Some people may have an increased level of appetite hormones (never heard of these, can you name them specifically so that I can look them up?), but they are readily controllable. This is what fasting is all about.

Human beings are not weak in spirit.

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« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2013, 12:24:56 AM »

How you lose weight: make your caloric output higher than your caloric intake.

How you gain weight: make your caloric intake higher than your caloric output.

So goes the myth.

How's it a myth?

Listen to the lecture I just posted. The question is what regulates fat? What is the cause of your body holding on to fat. The answer is carbohydrate in the diet that causes insulin to get too high NOT how many calories you eat or burn. Insulin is the hormone that regulates body fat

Also read the article I posted  about the guy who ate 5,800 calories a day of low carbohydrate foods but did not gain weight.

Here is the link again. If it is too wonky I can post others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpavkD7ot8I
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« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2013, 12:42:00 AM »

Some of the people in this thread need to have a bit more sympathy and empathy than saying "they're just being lazy f****".  You're bunch of a******* for thinking this way.

For once, more and more research are finding out things about obesity that makes us a bit more open to treating it in more drastic measures than just "diet and exercise".  And yes...there is such a thing as "skinny fat".  High cholesterol and heart attacks do not just occur in obese people.  Yes, obesity is a risk factor, but not the sole issue.  If one was to choose between a high fat diet and a high carb diet, choose the former.  It is recommended to stay away from 1% and skim milk because those are the ones that actually make you fat quicker, whereas the higher fat content makes it a bit more difficult for the body to absord the lactase.

Anyways, you have to consider also the fact that obesity is a crazy spiral that is difficult to fight.  The fatter you get, the hungrier you become, the more inactive you'll become.  Will power and crazy amounts of hormones make it quite a burden to fight.

Think of homosexuality.  We have become much more careful and sensitive in their situation while showing that we cannot accept their lifestyle as "non-sinful".  You do not know what they go through, and so we feel quite inclined to be sympathetic.  Why exactly do you feel the need to throw mud on obese people.  Everyone has different genes, different environments, different situations.  Don't be a jackass and judge people like that.
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« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2013, 12:44:20 AM »

Reply 1 for post 1:

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

This is the question that needs an answer before posting this way or that ZealousZeal. We need to listen to Alpacas more often.

Would you not lable other hormone imbalances as diseases? If you are a female and have a hormonal imbalance due to menopause isnt that a disease?
If you have an over active thyroid or underactive, isnt that a disease? How about adrenal exhaustion or type 1 diabetes.

Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.

I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

Obesity is due to metabolic syndrome ( too much insulin being pumped into your system). You develp this condition from eating foods that the f ing Government told you were healthy and that you should eat lots of. It is also exacerbated by suger which the food industry has pumped into all kinds of foods when they took out the fat.

So Obesity is the main symptom of a metabolic disorder caused by a hormonal imbalance..  


Hormonal imbalance is caused by being overweight. Do you disagree with this and would you care to cite references?


But people have been led to think obesity is due to eating too much because of lack of will power.. It's about time that little nugget got put to rest.

Its not really how much you eat but what you eat.. Here is an article about a man who did an experiment on himself. He ate 5,800 calories for one month of Low Carb, High Fat foods and didnt really gain weight, only 3.5 pounds. But if you did the conventional math he should have gained much much more.. On the other hand, people who ate junk food as an experiment ( "Super Size Me" ) gain lots of weight..

http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet




It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life. (I expect some may hate me for this statement), but if you are sitting or lying down reading you are indulging yourself, you can do it standing up as well with just as much pleasure.

By the way your buff man is so full of holes it is not worth commenting on it. My personal example refutes this explicitly. You seem to have automatic responses without reading the posts. More about this in you next post in which you try to confuse the issue.



Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.


We have evolved over a span of 2 million years. Eskimo's are not the only people who have bodies designed to live a hunter gatherer life. We all have basically the same genetic make up as our Paleolithic ancestors. Agriculture has only been around for 10,000 years which is not long enough for significant evolutionary changes.


I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

What in the world are you talking about? Just stick to the topic and give your options and evidence and all will be fine.  

It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life.

Obesity is caused by too much insulin directing your body to hold on to fat. It has nothing to do with depression or sloth or inactivity or even eating too many calories.

Here, spend an hour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpavkD7ot8I

Marc, I am not going to address your new posts until I address your old posts. That is just the way I am. I can only grapple with one thing at a time. If you want a back and forth post between 7-9pm pst, not when I am at work.



I was not aware that this was a debate between me and you Smiley  Post whatever you want whenever you want. I will do the same.

Appreciate this Marc. This is the way it should be.

Just so you know, I will not spend an hour on the youtube video.

I am going to go back to an earlier notion. If what you are saying is true. The rate of obesity would be constant. Can you clarify why that would not be the case based on your insulin scenario?

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« Reply #84 on: June 22, 2013, 01:12:36 AM »

Some of the people in this thread need to have a bit more sympathy and empathy than saying "they're just being lazy f****".  You're bunch of a******* for thinking this way.

For once, more and more research are finding out things about obesity that makes us a bit more open to treating it in more drastic measures than just "diet and exercise".  And yes...there is such a thing as "skinny fat".  High cholesterol and heart attacks do not just occur in obese people.  Yes, obesity is a risk factor, but not the sole issue.  If one was to choose between a high fat diet and a high carb diet, choose the former.  It is recommended to stay away from 1% and skim milk because those are the ones that actually make you fat quicker, whereas the higher fat content makes it a bit more difficult for the body to absord the lactase.

Anyways, you have to consider also the fact that obesity is a crazy spiral that is difficult to fight.  The fatter you get, the hungrier you become, the more inactive you'll become.  Will power and crazy amounts of hormones make it quite a burden to fight.

Think of homosexuality.  We have become much more careful and sensitive in their situation while showing that we cannot accept their lifestyle as "non-sinful".  You do not know what they go through, and so we feel quite inclined to be sympathetic.  Why exactly do you feel the need to throw mud on obese people.  Everyone has different genes, different environments, different situations.  Don't be a jackass and judge people like that.

Minasoliman, I would like a link to a paper on skinny fat, I have never heard of it, and the equivalency of skinny with fat makes little sense.

My personal issue in these threads has nothing to do with combating weight (which is worthwhile), but more to do with the notion of whether extending ones life 3-5 years on average is worthwhile. My fear is that we worry so much about when we die, that we miss the point of living.
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« Reply #85 on: June 22, 2013, 10:41:27 AM »

Reply 1 for post 1:

I wish the article had included how the AMA defines disease. It seems impossible to have an opinion one way or the other without knowing that.

This is the question that needs an answer before posting this way or that ZealousZeal. We need to listen to Alpacas more often.

Would you not lable other hormone imbalances as diseases? If you are a female and have a hormonal imbalance due to menopause isnt that a disease?
If you have an over active thyroid or underactive, isnt that a disease? How about adrenal exhaustion or type 1 diabetes.

Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.

I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

Obesity is due to metabolic syndrome ( too much insulin being pumped into your system). You develp this condition from eating foods that the f ing Government told you were healthy and that you should eat lots of. It is also exacerbated by suger which the food industry has pumped into all kinds of foods when they took out the fat.

So Obesity is the main symptom of a metabolic disorder caused by a hormonal imbalance..  


Hormonal imbalance is caused by being overweight. Do you disagree with this and would you care to cite references?


But people have been led to think obesity is due to eating too much because of lack of will power.. It's about time that little nugget got put to rest.

Its not really how much you eat but what you eat.. Here is an article about a man who did an experiment on himself. He ate 5,800 calories for one month of Low Carb, High Fat foods and didnt really gain weight, only 3.5 pounds. But if you did the conventional math he should have gained much much more.. On the other hand, people who ate junk food as an experiment ( "Super Size Me" ) gain lots of weight..

http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet




It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life. (I expect some may hate me for this statement), but if you are sitting or lying down reading you are indulging yourself, you can do it standing up as well with just as much pleasure.

By the way your buff man is so full of holes it is not worth commenting on it. My personal example refutes this explicitly. You seem to have automatic responses without reading the posts. More about this in you next post in which you try to confuse the issue.



Yes I would label them as diseases. However, from what I understand obesity rates are rising. Therefore the cause is primarily environmental and not genetic. In terms of genetics, it would make sense that Polynesians and Alaskan Native Americans evolved to preserve their fat content, but it makes less sense for Europeans during the same time span. Even if you put up this argument, the laws of physics rules.


We have evolved over a span of 2 million years. Eskimo's are not the only people who have bodies designed to live a hunter gatherer life. We all have basically the same genetic make up as our Paleolithic ancestors. Agriculture has only been around for 10,000 years which is not long enough for significant evolutionary changes.


I am going to continue to post, but I am not particularly interested in this topic. I am just giving my viewpoint which should allow you to discredit me as much as you so desire in order for you to feel good. I think the latter is what makes us healthy. NOT DIET OF ANY SORT. Perhaps more about this later if I prove to be more daring than I think I am.

What in the world are you talking about? Just stick to the topic and give your options and evidence and all will be fine.  

It is not lifestyle or will power. Obesity is caused by depression and/or the will to participate in life.

Obesity is caused by too much insulin directing your body to hold on to fat. It has nothing to do with depression or sloth or inactivity or even eating too many calories.

Here, spend an hour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpavkD7ot8I

Marc, I am not going to address your new posts until I address your old posts. That is just the way I am. I can only grapple with one thing at a time. If you want a back and forth post between 7-9pm pst, not when I am at work.



I was not aware that this was a debate between me and you Smiley  Post whatever you want whenever you want. I will do the same.

Appreciate this Marc. This is the way it should be.

Just so you know, I will not spend an hour on the youtube video.

I am going to go back to an earlier notion. If what you are saying is true. The rate of obesity would be constant. Can you clarify why that would not be the case based on your insulin scenario?



I dont understand your question. Why would obesity be constant and what are you referring to, the whole population?

Denise Minger has a book coming out about the history of the bad advice that triggered the obesity epidemic "Death by Food Pyramid" But you can search on her name now and learn more.... I'm sorry that this may take some time but she is a very engaging non wonky  speaker.



Obesity is Now a Disease, Says AMA
June 19 20:48 in Insulin, Weight Loss

http://www.dietdoctor.com/obesity-is-now-a-disease-says-ama

Personally I don’t look at obesity as a disease. I see obesity as a symptom of a disturbed weight regulation, which is often due to a hormonal problem. Most commonly having way too much insulin in the blood. Obese people often have 5 – 10 times normal levels of insulin. But there are many other possible problems that can also lead to the symptom of obesity.

Thus obesity is a symptom of a disease. The underlying disease is often metabolic syndrome, resulting in too much fat-storing insulin. The cause of metabolic syndrome is often decades of eating too much sugar and other processed junk carbohydrates.



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« Reply #86 on: June 22, 2013, 10:45:23 AM »

Here is part of an article by Cardiologist William Davis, author of the book "Wheat Belly"... he gives a different perspective on the AMA decision  than what we have talked about so far:

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2013/06/the-monetization-of-obesity/

Obesity advocacy groups hailed the decision as a major victory. AMA Board Member, Dr. Patrice Harris, said, “Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately one in three Americans.” Joseph Nadglowski, president and CEO of the Obesity Action Coalition, a non-profit obesity advocacy group, felt that identifying obesity as a disease may also help in reducing the stigma often associated with being overweight.

It all sounds good, doesn’t it? Let unstigmatize obesity. Let’s not blame the victim. Let’s get these people help when and where they need it.

Step back a second. How and why did this happen?

Well, it’s hard to know how the internal discussions at the AMA went until we get a look at the transcripts. But let’s take a look at the Obesity Action Coalition (OAC). I believe it tells the whole story.

The OAC Board of Directors is filled with bariatric surgeons, such as Drs. Titus Duncan and Lloyd Stegemann, people who make a living from procedures and surgeries like gastric bypass and lap-band. The largest contributors to the OAC? Eisai Pharmaceuticals, maker of BELVIQ, the new drug for weight loss; Ethicon EndoSurgery, makers of laparoscopic operating room supplies; Vivus, Inc., another obesity drug maker; the American Society for Bariatric Surgeons; and Orexigen, developer of the combination drug naltrexone-buproprion for weight loss, now in FDA application stage. (Recall that naltrexone is the opiate blocking drug taken by heroin addicts but now being proposed to be gain approval for weight loss.)

In other words, while it is being cast as something being done for the public good, the motivation is more likely to be . . . money: Bariatric surgeons gain by expanding the market for their procedures to patients who previously did not have insurance coverage for this “non-disease”; operating room supply manufacturers will sell more equipment for the dramatically increased number of surgical procedures; obesity drug manufacturers will have the clout to pressure health insurers to cover the drugs for this new disease.

From the perspective of the Wheat Belly arguments, I see the world something like this: Tell the world to eat more “healthy whole grains,” complete with the gliadin-derived opiates in wheat that stimulate appetite by binding to the opiate receptors of the human brain; we eat more–400 calories per person, per day, 365 days per year, with most of those calories coming from junk carbohydrates like corn chips and soft drinks, the sort that stimulate insulin, the hormone of fat storage; experience repetitive high blood sugars and insulin from the amylopectin A of wheat, the complex carbohydrate in wheat that behaves more like a simple sugar. We gain and gain and gain.
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« Reply #87 on: June 22, 2013, 10:54:00 AM »

And to just wrap up the discussion about exercise as a weight loss strategy:

http://www.fitnessmagazine.com/weight-loss/eating-help/control-cravings/control-your-post-workout-appetite/

 The Food-Exercise Equation

Two days ago I logged my usual 12 laps around the local track. I finished hungry but happy. When I popped over there today, I found the track gone, razed by bulldozers now sitting atop a huge pile of mud. How was I supposed to lose weight if I had no place to exercise?

Actually, skipping my workout might not be a bad thing, according to a hotly contested idea circulating among researchers and making headlines in publications such as The New York Times and Time magazine. Exercise, ironically, is being singled out by some as a deterrent to weight-loss efforts. Say what?

"There's this hunger issue," says Kendrin Sonneville, RD, a researcher at the Harvard School of Public Health. Her study about how kids who exercised the most ate back all the calories they burned off, and then some, was featured in a Time cover story, "Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin,"
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« Reply #88 on: June 22, 2013, 11:03:19 AM »

Some of the people in this thread need to have a bit more sympathy and empathy than saying "they're just being lazy f****".  You're bunch of a******* for thinking this way.

For once, more and more research are finding out things about obesity that makes us a bit more open to treating it in more drastic measures than just "diet and exercise".  And yes...there is such a thing as "skinny fat".  High cholesterol and heart attacks do not just occur in obese people.  Yes, obesity is a risk factor, but not the sole issue.  If one was to choose between a high fat diet and a high carb diet, choose the former.  It is recommended to stay away from 1% and skim milk because those are the ones that actually make you fat quicker, whereas the higher fat content makes it a bit more difficult for the body to absord the lactase.

Anyways, you have to consider also the fact that obesity is a crazy spiral that is difficult to fight.  The fatter you get, the hungrier you become, the more inactive you'll become.  Will power and crazy amounts of hormones make it quite a burden to fight.

Think of homosexuality.  We have become much more careful and sensitive in their situation while showing that we cannot accept their lifestyle as "non-sinful".  You do not know what they go through, and so we feel quite inclined to be sympathetic.  Why exactly do you feel the need to throw mud on obese people.  Everyone has different genes, different environments, different situations.  Don't be a jackass and judge people like that.

Minasoliman, I would like a link to a paper on skinny fat, I have never heard of it, and the equivalency of skinny with fat makes little sense.

My personal issue in these threads has nothing to do with combating weight (which is worthwhile), but more to do with the notion of whether extending ones life 3-5 years on average is worthwhile. My fear is that we worry so much about when we die, that we miss the point of living.

How about avoiding being sick and frail and demented the last 20 years of your life. Would that be worth it? And what are to costs to society of having so many people debilitated due to obesity and the illnesses it drives?

There would be no Health Care crises if the obesity epidemic went away.
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« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2013, 02:29:41 PM »

Some of the people in this thread need to have a bit more sympathy and empathy than saying "they're just being lazy f****".  You're bunch of a******* for thinking this way.

For once, more and more research are finding out things about obesity that makes us a bit more open to treating it in more drastic measures than just "diet and exercise".  And yes...there is such a thing as "skinny fat".  High cholesterol and heart attacks do not just occur in obese people.  Yes, obesity is a risk factor, but not the sole issue.  If one was to choose between a high fat diet and a high carb diet, choose the former.  It is recommended to stay away from 1% and skim milk because those are the ones that actually make you fat quicker, whereas the higher fat content makes it a bit more difficult for the body to absord the lactase.

Anyways, you have to consider also the fact that obesity is a crazy spiral that is difficult to fight.  The fatter you get, the hungrier you become, the more inactive you'll become.  Will power and crazy amounts of hormones make it quite a burden to fight.

Think of homosexuality.  We have become much more careful and sensitive in their situation while showing that we cannot accept their lifestyle as "non-sinful".  You do not know what they go through, and so we feel quite inclined to be sympathetic.  Why exactly do you feel the need to throw mud on obese people.  Everyone has different genes, different environments, different situations.  Don't be a jackass and judge people like that.


My personal issue in these threads has nothing to do with combating weight (which is worthwhile), but more to do with the notion of whether extending ones life 3-5 years on average is worthwhile. My fear is that we worry so much about when we die, that we miss the point of living.
+1,000! 

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