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Author Topic: dating non-Orthodox?  (Read 3442 times) Average Rating: 0
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Kerdy
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« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2013, 05:56:58 AM »

If the person is an agnostic (which she says he is), the Church will not marry thm.  They will marry an Orthodox to another Christian, but not to a non-Christian.
No, I doubt any sane priest will actually inquire into his personal beliefs . The most they'll ask for some proof of baptism. If that.
You and I know different priests...and have different definitions of sanity.
I take it as a compliment.
I had little doubt you would.
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mike
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« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2013, 07:26:02 AM »

Kerdy, cut it out.

You don't get to talk to real human beings with dismissive stock response.

That sort of hardheartedness should be post moderated.
Not so much.  And if you think my response was hard hearted, you didn't read it or the scriptures.

Why hadn't you divorced your wife, then?
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Byzantinism
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« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2013, 11:59:06 AM »

If the person is an agnostic (which she says he is), the Church will not marry thm.  They will marry an Orthodox to another Christian, but not to a non-Christian.
No, I doubt any sane priest will actually inquire into his personal beliefs . The most they'll ask for some proof of baptism. If that.
You and I know different priests...and have different definitions of sanity.
I take it as a compliment.
I had little doubt you would.

Most Orthodox jurisdictions have regulations and policies governing mixed marriages and the clergy are bound by oath to follow the prescriptions of their diocesan bishop.

Styles may differ, even within a diocese, from priest to priest, but substantively the rules are enforced.

At a minimum the non Orthodox MUST  be a baptised Christian, baptised by water with a Trinitarian formula. The priest must obtain proof of this and in my diocese at least, submit the same for review by the bishop. Obviously, if a person is baptized BUT  overtly HOSTILE to both Christianity and Orthodoxy the priest should, and most likely would decline to.marry the couple. Don't tut tut too much as sometimes it is the baptised "Orthodox" part of the couple whose agnosticism or indifference precludes the Church wedding. That is where good pastoring is very, very difficult and wrenching.

If the priest discerned the proper sincerity of both parties, even if the non Orthodox party's Faith is "somewhat shallow" in most cases they will be married. You know, the old tiny mustard seed and tiny acorn thing.....

Sadly, some men are lousy pastors and I will stop bloviating at that. Smiley
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Hiwot
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« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2013, 01:12:24 PM »

If the person is an agnostic (which she says he is), the Church will not marry thm.  They will marry an Orthodox to another Christian, but not to a non-Christian.
No, I doubt any sane priest will actually inquire into his personal beliefs . The most they'll ask for some proof of baptism. If that.
You and I know different priests...and have different definitions of sanity.
I take it as a compliment.

As you should!

A rare delight to agree with both kerdy and you at the same time! lol
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« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2013, 02:35:19 PM »

Just to update, we've been continuing to see each other but I did tell him that church is a large, central part of my life, and we can't get more serious until he learns about it and understands/sees HOW it plays a part in my life (i.e. is this something he can deal with, or, how much can he tolerate before running for the hills!  Roll Eyes) He has told me that he wants to learn about my faith. I invited him to an upcoming parish fundraiser/dance to start with, and then will invite him to church.  Smiley
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TheTrisagion
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« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2013, 02:58:02 PM »

Just to update, we've been continuing to see each other but I did tell him that church is a large, central part of my life, and we can't get more serious until he learns about it and understands/sees HOW it plays a part in my life (i.e. is this something he can deal with, or, how much can he tolerate before running for the hills!  Roll Eyes) He has told me that he wants to learn about my faith. I invited him to an upcoming parish fundraiser/dance to start with, and then will invite him to church.  Smiley
Sounds like a great development!  Smiley
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« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2013, 04:45:21 PM »

Just to update, we've been continuing to see each other but I did tell him that church is a large, central part of my life, and we can't get more serious until he learns about it and understands/sees HOW it plays a part in my life (i.e. is this something he can deal with, or, how much can he tolerate before running for the hills!  Roll Eyes) He has told me that he wants to learn about my faith. I invited him to an upcoming parish fundraiser/dance to start with, and then will invite him to church.  Smiley
Sounds like a great development!  Smiley

Is there another parish in your area that is mostly English?  You could take him to Vespers there some time.
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katerina
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« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2013, 01:34:31 PM »

Elisha - Technically yes, but my parish and all the parishes nearby conduct services pretty much half Slavonic and half English. There is one that I know of, about 40 minutes away, that does entirely in English. I will keep that in mind.

The first service he will be going to will be liturgy, on the church's feast day, which should be nice. He is also a big history buff and actually read about the life of the saint (Vladimir), completely unrelated to me inviting him. Which is cool, because he can at least connect the service to something.

Random question - I am cradle so this may be a silly question but I just want to be prepared... can anyone tell me what a non-Orthodox person can and cannot do during service? I'm aware of the big things (like communion.. duh  Smiley). I'm talking little things, such as: venerating icons, lighting candles, getting a blessing from a priest/kissing their hand, even eating prosfora?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 01:36:34 PM by katerina » Logged
TheTrisagion
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« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2013, 01:40:29 PM »

Elisha - Technically yes, but my parish and all the parishes nearby conduct services pretty much half Slavonic and half English. There is one that I know of, about 40 minutes away, that does entirely in English. I will keep that in mind.

The first service he will be going to will be liturgy, on the church's feast day, which should be nice. He is also a big history buff and actually read about the life of the saint (Vladimir), completely unrelated to me inviting him. Which is cool, because he can at least connect the service to something.

Random question - I am cradle so this may be a silly question but I just want to be prepared... can anyone tell me what a non-Orthodox person can and cannot do during service? I'm aware of the big things (like communion.. duh  Smiley). I'm talking little things, such as: venerating icons, lighting candles, getting a blessing from a priest/kissing their hand, even eating prosfora?
Non-Orthodox do all those in my parish.
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Orthodox11
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« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2013, 01:54:24 PM »

I'm talking little things, such as: venerating icons, lighting candles, getting a blessing from a priest/kissing their hand, even eating prosfora?

Those things are all fine. There are some who insist that the antidoron is only for Orthodox Christians - which is probably true since non-Orthodox would traditionally not be permitted to remain in church until its distribution at the end of the Liturgy - but in practice, I've never been to any church where this was discouraged or not allowed. If anything, the non-Orthodox are often encouraged by the priest to receive the antidoron.
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Mor Ephrem
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« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2013, 02:04:57 PM »

If anything, the non-Orthodox are often encouraged by the priest to receive the antidoron.

Yeah, I've only had antidoron denied me at one parish: the Matthewite Old Calendarist parish in Astoria, NY.  The priest (I think he's a bishop now?) handed it to me and I kissed his hand, but I informed him of who/what I was because I figured it would come up later and I didn't want to take a chance of offending them.  He very lovingly snatched it out of my hand with a smile and a welcome.  Smiley
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« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2013, 05:37:57 PM »

Thanks!!  Smiley
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« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2013, 01:20:36 PM »

Just another update... I took him to liturgy and he loved it! He said the minute he stepped into church his mind was blown.  Smiley He found the singing, the icons, the entire service to be beautiful and fascinating. There was a language barrier, but I told him not to worry so much about that for now, I just wanted him to experience it. I took the time to explain a few general things to him.

We had a long discussion afterwards about it, and religion in general. He explained that he is not adamantly non-religious, but instead struggles with issues of certainty, but understands that somehow church, praying, and religion are important. He acknowledges that he feels something inside of him at certain times, and he felt this when he came to liturgy.

Sometimes its very hard for me to understand what he is going through. I grew up strong in my faith so for me, even in times of despair or occasional doubt, God is very real.

Long story short - he wants to keep coming to church and learn more!  Smiley So.. I guess I will just keep on taking him. Please keep both of us in your prayers.
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2013, 02:22:43 PM »

Sounds good  Smiley
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« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2013, 03:08:26 PM »

Just another update... I took him to liturgy and he loved it! He said the minute he stepped into church his mind was blown.  Smiley He found the singing, the icons, the entire service to be beautiful and fascinating. There was a language barrier, but I told him not to worry so much about that for now, I just wanted him to experience it. I took the time to explain a few general things to him.

We had a long discussion afterwards about it, and religion in general. He explained that he is not adamantly non-religious, but instead struggles with issues of certainty, but understands that somehow church, praying, and religion are important. He acknowledges that he feels something inside of him at certain times, and he felt this when he came to liturgy.

Sometimes its very hard for me to understand what he is going through. I grew up strong in my faith so for me, even in times of despair or occasional doubt, God is very real.

Long story short - he wants to keep coming to church and learn more!  Smiley So.. I guess I will just keep on taking him. Please keep both of us in your prayers.

Good. Hopefully, he'll learn some Slavonic
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