Author Topic: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?  (Read 4542 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,386
  • Faith: Melkite Catholic
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2013, 01:40:00 PM »
I wonder if there is an underlying reason for Roman Catholics being ignorant of the Eastern Catholic Church?  I can remember in Apologetics we only touched briefly on the Eastern church and then there was nothing more said on the subject.

Well, I'm sure one underlying reason is that less than 2% of Catholics are Eastern Catholics -- although it can be easy to forget that if you spend a lot of time on forums, and are always hearing how 22 of the 23 Catholic Churches are Eastern, and similar statements.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Online Cyrillic

  • The Laughing Cavalier
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,226
  • Level 13 Chalcedonian Paladin
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2013, 01:41:05 PM »
I wonder if there is an underlying reason for Roman Catholics being ignorant of the Eastern Catholic Church?  I can remember in Apologetics we only touched briefly on the Eastern church and then there was nothing more said on the subject.

Well, I'm sure one underlying reason is that less than 2% of Catholics are Eastern Catholics -- although it can be easy to forget that if you spend a lot of time on forums, and are always hearing how 22 of the 23 Catholic Churches are Eastern, and similar statements.

Or perhaps 100% of Catholics is Eastern Catholic  :)

Ah yes, silly joke. But I couldn't help myself
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 01:41:37 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
νὰ μὴ ζητήσουνε νὰ βροῦν ποιός ἢμουν
-C.P Cavafy

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2013, 03:03:03 PM »
Plus Eastern Catholicism kind of undermines the systematic Latin hegemony on theology. All the carefully constructed logical loops the Romans use to justify annulments kind of fall apart when you mention that others in their church just go ahead and grant divorces.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,764
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2013, 04:12:33 PM »
Plus Eastern Catholicism kind of undermines the systematic Latin hegemony on theology. All the carefully constructed logical loops the Romans use to justify annulments kind of fall apart when you mention that others in their church just go ahead and grant divorces.

Wait, Eastern Catholics grant divorces? Isn't that one of the major (internet) arguments against Orthodoxy? I've seen many that almost put allowing divorce on par with denying the Trinity.

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2013, 04:33:29 PM »
Plus Eastern Catholicism kind of undermines the systematic Latin hegemony on theology. All the carefully constructed logical loops the Romans use to justify annulments kind of fall apart when you mention that others in their church just go ahead and grant divorces.

Wait, Eastern Catholics grant divorces? Isn't that one of the major (internet) arguments against Orthodoxy? I've seen many that almost put allowing divorce on par with denying the Trinity.

Well upon further investigation it looks like you're correct. Eastern Catholics do the annulment thing. I didn't realize the latinization went that far.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,386
  • Faith: Melkite Catholic
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2013, 04:48:57 PM »
All the carefully constructed logical loops the Romans use to justify annulments kind of fall apart when you mention that others in their church just go ahead and grant divorces.

Eastern Catholics do the annulment thing. I didn't realize the latinization went that far.

This sounds like a damned-if-we-do damned-if-we-don't situation.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2013, 04:51:45 PM »
All the carefully constructed logical loops the Romans use to justify annulments kind of fall apart when you mention that others in their church just go ahead and grant divorces.

Eastern Catholics do the annulment thing. I didn't realize the latinization went that far.

This sounds like a damned-if-we-do damned-if-we-don't situation.

Because it is. Orthodoxy is theologically different than Catholicism and its practices reflect that. Trying to imitate those practices without the theology just does not work. You end up either undermining your own theology or just rejecting some of the practices (like in this case).
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,300
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2013, 06:42:10 PM »
A timely topic as celibacy in the Eastern Catholic North American diaspora was a major subject of the summer meeting of the North American Catholic Orthodox Dialogue held this week at SVS. Apparently no hints regarding the possible ordination of a married candidate for the priesthood in the BCC/Pittsburgh came up.

Any hint as to what they are discussing?

The Orthodox have used the example of the Latin church's views on celibacy, in particular, the energetic suppression in the 20th century of the venerable Eastern tradition of married clergy, as a teaching tool. The Roman representatives are well versed theologically, but really have been unaware of how real world issues and history can be "church dividing" issues. The case history of the Greek Catholic experience in America has been even more unknown to Roman Catholics than to most Orthodox, and it has been a true eye-opener to many of them. To them, celibacy in the theoretical realm is a minor issue, to us - the inability of Rome to realize for nearly a century just how the East viewed the issue of enforced celibacy and the breach of the spirit of a fundamental element of the post Florence unions of Brest and Ungvar as an example of Rome's inner attitude. In other words, a "church dividing" issue. (On finishing his presentation, Fr. James received a standing ovation from the group.  There is indeed truth in the teaching about the plank in one's eye!)

Please thank Fr. James for me.  I have been asking Orthodox to do this for years and he is the first, to my knowldege, to bring this up in formal dialogue. 
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,386
  • Faith: Melkite Catholic
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2013, 07:21:03 PM »
All the carefully constructed logical loops the Romans use to justify annulments kind of fall apart when you mention that others in their church just go ahead and grant divorces.

Eastern Catholics do the annulment thing. I didn't realize the latinization went that far.

This sounds like a damned-if-we-do damned-if-we-don't situation.

Because it is. Orthodoxy is theologically different than Catholicism and its practices reflect that. Trying to imitate those practices without the theology just does not work. You end up either undermining your own theology or just rejecting some of the practices (like in this case).

I think the underlying issue here (and in many similar matters) is that Rome sometimes engages in a little bit of double-speak concerning "Return to your traditions."
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,516
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2013, 10:33:57 PM »
All the carefully constructed logical loops the Romans use to justify annulments kind of fall apart when you mention that others in their church just go ahead and grant divorces.

Eastern Catholics do the annulment thing. I didn't realize the latinization went that far.

This sounds like a damned-if-we-do damned-if-we-don't situation.

Because it is. Orthodoxy is theologically different than Catholicism and its practices reflect that. Trying to imitate those practices without the theology just does not work. You end up either undermining your own theology or just rejecting some of the practices (like in this case).

I think the underlying issue here (and in many similar matters) is that Rome sometimes engages in a little bit of double-speak concerning "Return to your traditions."

Double-speak is not an affliction limited to Rome I fear.....

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,516
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Married men ordained as Byzantine Catholic Priests?
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2013, 08:35:11 AM »
Has anyone out west (USA) heard anything about the ordination of a married deacon to the Eastern Catholic priesthood by BBC Bishop Gerald (Dino) in the Phoenix area this weekend? I am trying to track this down.