Author Topic: Covering your hair  (Read 1052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RehamG

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 276
    • Add me on FB
Covering your hair
« on: June 04, 2013, 01:45:10 PM »
Obviously this is for the ladies,

Anyone out there wear a hair cover all the time versus just for Church service? Just curious if anyone practiced this and if so why? I must admit I like the idea but I don't want to look like it is a holdover from my Muslim years.

 If this is in the wrong section someone feel free to move it to the right area.
"A humble man who lives a spiritual life, when he reads the Holy Scriptures, will relate all things to himself and not to others.”

– St. Mark the Ascetic, Sermon, 1.6

Offline lovesupreme

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,209
  • This is where I choose to tread
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 02:14:45 PM »
Hair covering for women is a pretty broad religious practice. You'll find it in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, to name just a few traditions. I can't really advise you about how you should observe this practice (or if you should at all), but I just wanted to pointed out that it won't necessarily be construed as a Muslim holdover.

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,933
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 02:36:24 PM »
My grandmother used to tell me she had never seen her mother's hair and couldn't even tell what colour it was. She died in 1948 (when grandmother was 16) and was Romanian Orthodox. 

Offline Adela

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 912
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2013, 03:07:22 PM »
I only saw it with my Baba and her sister, and the many elderly widowed Slavic women I saw in church when I was little.  Once they became widowed, they always wore a kerchief/babushka over their heads, with the knot under their chin, and not at the nape of their necks.   Even while sitting and watching Lawrence Welk, they would have their heads covered.  It seemed to be a sign of mourning and widowhood.  But, I haven't seen that in ages.  The only time my mother makes me wear a kerchief, knotted at the nape of my neck,  is when we are baking and cooking.  
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 03:13:48 PM by Adela »

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2013, 04:35:13 PM »
I am not a lady, but I can tell you that it was my mother's practive to have her hair covererd whenever she left home, and she continued this practice until she became "Americanized" sometime in the '70s.  She was German and Lutheran, btw, so Islam had nothing to do with it.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline katherineofdixie

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,547
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2013, 05:09:05 PM »
My dear Southern great-granny would no more have gone "downtown" in her slip than she would have left the house without a hat.
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline JamesR

  • Virginal Chicano Blood
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,323
  • St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!
  • Faith: Misotheistic Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2013, 05:25:58 PM »
You should all wear head-coverings because this is a patriarchal, outdated "desert-people" religion and as a man, I cannot control myself from the perturbing, burning sexual urges that are aroused in me at the sight of a woman's hair.

/what the West thinks of Orthodoxy.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline mabsoota

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,839
  • Kyrie eleison
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox (Coptic)
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2013, 05:40:03 PM »
i don't. i do cover in church, including for vespers, and also if i have been asked to share something in front of the Bible study group, because i think it is a sign of the fact i am only sharing under the church's authority.

however i didn't do it the time i lead an eccumenical Bible study as i didn't want to freak out the protestants.
that was a few years ago, i think i would probably wear a head covering for that now.

when i am not at church, i don't wear it, as i can pray with an uncovered head just as well as i can sing praises to God in the shower (no covering at all there!)

i think there is a distinction between holy places and ordinary places. we can pray anywhere, but sometimes we pray in holy places (church, icon corner etc.) in order to have an ordered disciplined spiritual life.
we should also pray spontaneously wherever we find ourselves in any situation.

that's just my experience, i think the main thing is to cover / not cover for God's glory and to do everything for Him and under the guidance of your confession father (without any rebellious attitude).
God sees our motives and our love more than our clothes.

Offline RehamG

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 276
    • Add me on FB
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2013, 05:42:07 PM »
Thanks for all the replies, guys ;D

"A humble man who lives a spiritual life, when he reads the Holy Scriptures, will relate all things to himself and not to others.”

– St. Mark the Ascetic, Sermon, 1.6

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2013, 07:13:22 PM »
My dear Southern great-granny would no more have gone "downtown" in her slip than she would have left the house without a hat.

I must be getting VERY old. My mother, in her youth, was brought up the same, and she wasn't from the South. Hat, stockings and gloves were mandatory.
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to email me at the address in my profile.

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,641
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2013, 07:22:50 PM »
head covering  where that is a thing practiced outside of religious functions as well, is more of a class marker (usually, illiterate or barely literate peasant women vs educated women  ) than a mark of personal piety. now of course there exist the relatively small group of educated women that choose to cover for  ideological/religious reasons exclusively. that's a mark-and obnoxious one, at that-of personal piety.  but, itis, at the same time, a modern, reactionary phenomenon. now, can we go out for an akathist?

Offline JamesR

  • Virginal Chicano Blood
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,323
  • St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!
  • Faith: Misotheistic Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2013, 07:37:50 PM »
....now of course there exist the relatively small group of (re-)educated British bimbos that choose to cover for their Muslim boyfriend or Professorfor reasons exclusively in their liberal hatred of Christianity as Conservative scum.

fix'd  ;)

Wow, I feel like Isa
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,933
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2013, 07:42:38 PM »
It marked marital status in pre-WWII Romania.

Also, in Banat, Romanian peasants would look down on the clothes of German (educated) ladies and consider them silly. So it marked ethnicity as well.      

Offline pensateomnia

  • Bibliophylax
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,360
  • metron ariston
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2013, 08:04:39 PM »
It marked marital status in pre-WWII Romania.    

In the 90s, I remember some teenage Romanian-American girls started covering their heads for reasons of pious zeal. The women in the parish asked if the girls had been "naughty," since, to them, covering was a sign of marriage or a lack of nubility, i.e. no longer being a virgin.
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,641
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2013, 08:05:06 PM »
Well the point is the world moves on and so does the church. In nowadays ur an world  head covering can only signify some personal quirk. I like quirky people I am one too but have no illusions.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,009
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2013, 08:09:22 PM »
It marked marital status in pre-WWII Romania.   

In the 90s, I remember some teenage Romanian-American girls started covering their heads for reasons of pious zeal. The women in the parish asked if the girls had been "naughty," since, to them, covering was a sign of marriage or a lack of nubility, i.e. no longer being a virgin.

:D

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2013, 08:12:52 PM »
It marked marital status in pre-WWII Romania.   

In the 90s, I remember some teenage Romanian-American girls started covering their heads for reasons of pious zeal. The women in the parish asked if the girls had been "naughty," since, to them, covering was a sign of marriage or a lack of nubility, i.e. no longer being a virgin.

:D
nice
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2013, 10:16:14 PM »
Obviously this is for the ladies,

Anyone out there wear a hair cover all the time versus just for Church service? Just curious if anyone practiced this and if so why? I must admit I like the idea but I don't want to look like it is a holdover from my Muslim years.

 If this is in the wrong section someone feel free to move it to the right area.

I know a lady who covers her hair all the time. She's Greek and makes the candles for our church. She's a pious lady who has built chapels on her property. Not too long ago, women covered their heads all the time, and men did when outdoors.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2013, 10:18:52 PM »
My grandmother used to tell me she had never seen her mother's hair and couldn't even tell what colour it was. She died in 1948 (when grandmother was 16) and was Romanian Orthodox. 

Oh, that reminds me of my Macedonian friend's grandmother who, explaining modesty to her, said, "I bore my husband 8 children and he never even saw my knees."
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2013, 10:23:56 PM »
It marked marital status in pre-WWII Romania.   

In the 90s, I remember some teenage Romanian-American girls started covering their heads for reasons of pious zeal. The women in the parish asked if the girls had been "naughty," since, to them, covering was a sign of marriage or a lack of nubility, i.e. no longer being a virgin.

:D
nice

They must not have visited Russia, where all females where headcoverings and you tell who is unmarried by the length of the skirt.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2013, 11:25:18 PM »
It marked marital status in pre-WWII Romania.   

In the 90s, I remember some teenage Romanian-American girls started covering their heads for reasons of pious zeal. The women in the parish asked if the girls had been "naughty," since, to them, covering was a sign of marriage or a lack of nubility, i.e. no longer being a virgin.

:D
nice

They must not have visited Russia, where all females where headcoverings and you tell who is unmarried by the length of the skirt.

I've seen plenty of married Russian women with minis, and necklines that would disgrace them if they sneezed.  :o :laugh: :laugh:
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to email me at the address in my profile.

Offline Maria

  • Orthodox Christian
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,531
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2013, 12:14:22 AM »
It marked marital status in pre-WWII Romania.    

In the 90s, I remember some teenage Romanian-American girls started covering their heads for reasons of pious zeal. The women in the parish asked if the girls had been "naughty," since, to them, covering was a sign of marriage or a lack of nubility, i.e. no longer being a virgin.

Why is the Virgin Theotokos shown wearing a veil?
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2013, 12:39:34 AM »
It marked marital status in pre-WWII Romania.    

In the 90s, I remember some teenage Romanian-American girls started covering their heads for reasons of pious zeal. The women in the parish asked if the girls had been "naughty," since, to them, covering was a sign of marriage or a lack of nubility, i.e. no longer being a virgin.

Why is the Virgin Theotokos shown wearing a veil?

Because she is the Unwedded Bride.  ;)
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to email me at the address in my profile.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,035
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2013, 01:05:03 AM »
Sorry, Thomas. Didn't notice Convert Issues.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 01:11:24 AM by orthonorm »
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline Quinault

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,518
  • What about frogs? I like frogs!
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2013, 01:24:43 AM »
I prefer to have my head covered in church. But I overheat very quickly. While pregnant/nursing this problem is worsened. I haven't covered in services since before I was pregnant with my 15 month old.

Offline katherineofdixie

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,547
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2013, 10:22:41 AM »
My dear Southern great-granny would no more have gone "downtown" in her slip than she would have left the house without a hat.

I must be getting VERY old. My mother, in her youth, was brought up the same, and she wasn't from the South. Hat, stockings and gloves were mandatory.

Exactly! I have a photo of my two great-grandmothers in front of Woolworth's in Columbia, SC, wearing beautiful lace-collared cotton print dresses, high heels, stockings, hats and gloves. All that to eat lunch at the "dime store."  ;D (I shudder to think what they would have said about yoga pants!)
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline Adela

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 912
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2013, 10:27:29 AM »
I'm still wondering about the question of covering your hair outside of liturgy.  It sounds like the original question isn't about just putting a hat on but totally covering your hair when you are out living your life.  One one level it is good to be more modest than what is presently the norm.   But, does it really help you in any way towards living your faith?  It sounds like it could be a private devotion, but aren't there other ways of being modest, such as not wearing makeup, etc?   Is it ok to wear makeup and still cover your hair?

I had Iranian roommates in college who told me about their Muslim clerics teaching that women had special rays in their hair that hits the eyes of men and make them lustful.  That's probably why they have signs everywhere that say things like "Sister, guard your veil".  It's also interesting that the more women are veiled, the more that society that enforces the veiling seems to act in misogynistic ways.  My Iranian friends told of how men make a game of groping veiled women out on the streets.  So, these women are total veiled in a long black chador, and they are still getting groped.  Sheesh.

It's interesting that Islam seems to blame women for men going astray.  Christianity teaches it's more that you are obligated to treat everyone, even your worst enemy, as you would want to be treated. Jesus commanded this.  And, you don't get to treat someone else like garbage just because they are of a different faith or not following your rules of accepted behavior.

Sometimes groups can get caught on on things without seeing the big picture. I had Apostolic Evangelical friends in high school who were trying to convert me. They didn't cut their hair, based on the teachings of their church.  They had such long, lovely hair that fell below their knees.  They told me that God gave them this hair so it was against His will for them to have short hair.  Yet, they shaved their legs. Didn't God give them the hair on their legs so why is it ok for legs to be shaven but not hair to be cut?  I don't get it.  ::)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 10:29:05 AM by Adela »

Offline Maria

  • Orthodox Christian
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,531
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2013, 05:13:04 PM »
I prefer to have my head covered in church. But I overheat very quickly. While pregnant/nursing this problem is worsened. I haven't covered in services since before I was pregnant with my 15 month old.

That is why I wear a light lacy veil. It is long and modest, but it breathes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Covering your hair
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2013, 10:41:28 PM »
....now of course there exist the relatively small group of (re-)educated British bimbos that choose to cover for their Muslim boyfriend or Professorfor reasons exclusively in their liberal hatred of Christianity as Conservative scum.

fix'd  ;)

Wow, I feel like Isa

You forgot the maps!
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.