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Author Topic: How soon to have kids after marriage starts  (Read 3463 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: May 31, 2013, 04:49:29 PM »

Someone I know thinks it is ideal to have a first kid on the way within a year of getting married so as to not have time to become selfish (in how you live as married people or something). What do you guys think of that idea?
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 05:18:36 PM »

We had our first three years after we were married.  I think having them the first year would have been a mistake.  There was enough stress in our first year without throwing a kid into the mix.  When our kids came, we were ready for them and wanting them.
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2013, 05:21:39 PM »

As an unmarried man, my 2 cents would be to have as many kids as you can afford (wasn't that one of God's commandments, to reproduce and multiply?)
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013, 05:32:25 PM »

Depends on how big a lifestyle change comes with marriage. You need to find balance in life as a couple before the first child arrives. If marriage comes with relocation, a totally new crowd, new jobs, etc, it's better to wait at least a year. If you've known each other since childhood and move just down the road from your parents, you could start trying immediately. There are no guarantees that pregnancy will conform to whatever timetable you make, anyway.
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2013, 08:53:05 AM »

Personally, I wouldn't like to have a child in the first year (or even the first half of the second year) of the marriage. I think it's a time to enjoy finally living with each other as wife and husband, and also to work out how to live together.
And I think so although I was born in the first year of my parents marriage, but they were quite mature when they got married, so that's rather an exception...
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 09:12:23 AM »

Personally, I wouldn't like to have a child in the first year (or even the first half of the second year) of the marriage. I think it's a time to enjoy finally living with each other as wife and husband, and also to work out how to live together.
And I think so although I was born in the first year of my parents marriage, but they were quite mature when they got married, so that's rather an exception...

Agree.  I think that what is most important is to avoid is being born the way that I was - WELL within the first year of my parent's marriage.  That worked out OK, too.  But that is the exception and not the rule.
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 10:47:26 AM »

We had our first three years after we were married.  I think having them the first year would have been a mistake.  There was enough stress in our first year without throwing a kid into the mix.  When our kids came, we were ready for them and wanting them.
Pretty much the same thing here.  I told my wife we would START talking about it after two years.  About our third year we had our first, then the real stress began.  A marriage needs time to build a foundation, if possible.
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 10:48:31 AM »

Someone I know thinks it is ideal to have a first kid on the way within a year of getting married so as to not have time to become selfish (in how you live as married people or something). What do you guys think of that idea?
Most people I know don't need time to become selfish.

It would be nice to have some memories to look back on when you were just a couple (especially when the yuggins leave the nest).  We waited 3 years.
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2013, 10:49:37 AM »

As an unmarried man, my 2 cents would be to have as many kids as you can afford (wasn't that one of God's commandments, to reproduce and multiply?)
If you wait until you can afford kids, you'll never have any.
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2013, 11:45:32 AM »

no less than 9 months after marriage. for the pious, at least.
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2013, 12:21:52 PM »

As an unmarried man, my 2 cents would be to have as many kids as you can afford (wasn't that one of God's commandments, to reproduce and multiply?)
If you wait until you can afford kids, you'll never have any.
Yes.  A good rule would be to have one more than you think you should have.
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2013, 12:44:34 PM »

There is no right answer.  It depends on the couple and their circumstances.
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 04:24:38 PM »

It would depend upon the couple and individual people. My husband and I dated 3 years before we wed, then waited another 5 years before we had children. We waited 5 years because we gave ourselves 1 year to really consider it before we started having children, and it took 1 year of "trying" so to speak before we conceived.

The key is that children amplify every aspect of a marriage. The positive aspects are strengthened, the weak aspects are weakened more. If a couple had a firm foundation of a good relationship before they wed, then they could be ready for children immediately. There was little transition for us into marriage. Functionally the relationship was almost the same, except we could have sex, and sleep together. Wink We could have likely been OK having children earlier. But I am glad we have a few years to really enjoy being married before we had children.

So before you have children you need to have a strong marriage. That could take a few years, or you could be ready immediately. It really is individual to each couple, as well as each person.

Number of children is another discussion, for the record I have 6.
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 05:51:20 PM »

no less than 9 months after marriage. for the pious, at least.

you got there ahead of me!
 Wink

next question:
how long after marriage are people suppose to realise you are not having kids and stop asking?
*maybe should start new thread...
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2013, 06:04:29 PM »

I don't think anyone should *ever* ask a couple when they will start or stop having children.
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2013, 06:10:04 PM »

I also think that making snide remarks about "how that happens" to a couple with kids is just crass. But it is slightly better than lectures about overpopulation.

So if you live in a not-so-kid-friendly area you need to have a slightly thick skin before you endeavor to start a family.
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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2013, 06:13:15 PM »

Someone I know thinks it is ideal to have a first kid on the way within a year of getting married so as to not have time to become selfish (in how you live as married people or something). What do you guys think of that idea?

My first was born -4 months into the marriage, and eight years in we've had two fights ever. Maybe there's something to it.


I don't think anyone should *ever* ask a couple when they will start or stop having children.
Damn straight.

Equally annoying to me is, "Was s/he planned?"

Even weirder and inappropriate was, "How did you conceive?"

I also think that making snide remarks about "how that happens" to a couple with kids is just crass.
A while back someone asked me that and I started talking biology. It shut them up. ;-)
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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2013, 06:22:46 PM »


Equally annoying to me is, "Was s/he planned?"

Even weirder and inappropriate was, "How did you conceive?"


I had to LOL at these statements.  What do some people think?  Another good one "our Nth one was an accident".  My response is, "Oh really?  What happened?  Was your wife just innocently walking around when she tripped and just happened to fall on a penis?"  An "accident" . . . right.
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2013, 06:25:26 PM »

a friend of mine has 5 kids, all close together.
she is a great mum, so i think this is good.
especially as she brings them to church and they have a good time there and learn about God's love.
i think she is just like an evangelist or missionary as she brings lots of people to church.
 Smiley

i get on well with people with lots of kids as i automatically take one or two of them off them to play, evening the balance!
 Wink

punch, i know someone who had 4 'accidents' like this. by the 3rd one i wondered if a biology lesson was needed...
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2013, 06:30:54 PM »

There are no accidents, but there are surprises. Our sixth was a surprise. He is 14 months younger than his big brother. My godparents have two sons that are 11.5 months apart, that is just unfathomable to me Shocked
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2013, 06:42:18 PM »

There are no accidents, but there are surprises. Our sixth was a surprise. He is 14 months younger than his big brother. My godparents have two sons that are 11.5 months apart, that is just unfathomable to me Shocked

Have you heard the term "Irish twins"?  My wife has a friend who has a sibling born the same year as her.  I think your godparent's sons would classify as such.
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2013, 06:46:23 PM »

I believe they ended up being born in different years. I did tell my godmother about Irish twins...then had to explain it was sort of a racial/religious slur. They were Mormon at the time, so..yeah...there you go.

They ended up having 7 boys altogether.
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 07:00:52 PM »

Start crankin them out!  Smiley

Have as many as possible.  They don't have to be expensive.
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 07:32:50 PM »

Someone I know thinks it is ideal to have a first kid on the way within a year of getting married so as to not have time to become selfish (in how you live as married people or something). What do you guys think of that idea?

My parents waited 7 years before they had me and I'm the oldest.  THings were quite different.

My son arrived three weeks before our first wedding anniversary.  We were not necessarily planning on having kids (he was a surprise), but when you consider our age (I was 34), probably it was best for us to get started now, especially if we wanted to have more.

The following are consequences of us having a kid which meant the following: (circumstances may differ)
1) I had to get a better job, which I did.  Babies are expensive.  Fortunately, the job turned out to be one I really love and the extra income helped out so much with the medical expenses and just basic expenses of having a kid
2) But, I had to work longer hours and that meant more time away from him and my wife
3) Both my energies and my wife's are now committed entirely to our son.  it is rare for us to have any "alone" time. And, it's gotten to the point where we wonder what happened to our marriage that we have no time or next to no time with each other.  We both dearly love our son, but I hope and pray it's not at the expense of losing our love for each other, which we have to work on.

Our son is now almost one year (11 months tomorrow) and our lives are only enriched with him. However, our marriage is going through some strain.  My wife and I both love each other dearly, but since so much of our focus is on him, we are going to have to work that much harder on it.

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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2013, 08:02:36 PM »

Boy, there's some revealing posts in this thread.
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2013, 08:41:51 PM »

Planned Parenthood approves of the presuppositions of this thread.
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2013, 08:43:34 PM »

Planned Parenthood approves of the presuppositions of this thread.

oh if only i could post something here
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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2013, 08:53:33 PM »

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oh if only i could post something here

Cat got your fingers?
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« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2013, 09:15:39 PM »

Planned Parenthood approves of the presuppositions of this thread.

oh if only i could post something here

but you can't, can you!
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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2013, 11:53:17 PM »

I had to LOL at these statements.  What do some people think?  Another good one "our Nth one was an accident".  My response is, "Oh really?  What happened?  Was your wife just innocently walking around when she tripped and just happened to fall on a penis?"  An "accident" . . . right.

I really LOLed at this one.  Not LOL (I think that's really funny, so I'll imagine myself laughing a lot in my head), but LOL (I got reminded that it was midnight and that people are trying to sleep so I need to shut the ____ up). 
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« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2013, 12:02:46 AM »

I definitely think waiting a few years is wise.  You need a few years to work out issues and get to know each other better before you start cranking out kids.  Kids add stress.  Lots of stress. And grumpiness.  They have their good moments too, but lots of grumpiness.  If you are selfish, kids will knock that out of you in a hurry.  (Unless you just decide to be a crappy parent.  Don't do that.  Things get really ugly then.)
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« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2013, 04:09:50 AM »

scamandrius, invest in some baby sitters urgently!
try people without kids in your church.
(ok some people don't have kids coz they hate them, so those that look round and stare when your kid cries are not the ones to ask).
ask those that you see attached to someone else's kid during coffee time, or in the liturgy.
(hope u have some of those!)

once u have found a baby sitter, try to get out for a couple of times a month together. put on nice clothes (remove baby vomit) and go for a walk in the park or a coffee or whatever.
that way u get some time together and your baby sitter gets to play with someone else's kid!
it is also good for the kid to socialise without mum and dad sometimes.
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« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2013, 07:29:21 AM »

scamandrius, invest in some baby sitters urgently!
try people without kids in your church.
(ok some people don't have kids coz they hate them, so those that look round and stare when your kid cries are not the ones to ask).
ask those that you see attached to someone else's kid during coffee time, or in the liturgy.
(hope u have some of those!)

once u have found a baby sitter, try to get out for a couple of times a month together. put on nice clothes (remove baby vomit) and go for a walk in the park or a coffee or whatever.
that way u get some time together and your baby sitter gets to play with someone else's kid!
it is also good for the kid to socialise without mum and dad sometimes.

Easier said than done. Much easier said than done.
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« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2013, 02:17:59 PM »

 Sad
wish i could come over, virtual babysitting by computer messaging doesn't seem to work...
may God guide u and help u
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« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2013, 04:12:14 PM »

scamandrius, invest in some baby sitters urgently!
try people without kids in your church.
(ok some people don't have kids coz they hate them, so those that look round and stare when your kid cries are not the ones to ask).
ask those that you see attached to someone else's kid during coffee time, or in the liturgy.
(hope u have some of those!)

once u have found a baby sitter, try to get out for a couple of times a month together. put on nice clothes (remove baby vomit) and go for a walk in the park or a coffee or whatever.
that way u get some time together and your baby sitter gets to play with someone else's kid!
it is also good for the kid to socialise without mum and dad sometimes.

Easier said than done. Much easier said than done.

Much, much easier said than done. The best alternative is to sleep less. We stay up hours after all the kids go to bed so we can get some alone time. It is easier to get alone time when you have multiple kids (with some being older).

The babysitters here cost $10-15 an hour!!!!

The good news for us is that in a couple years our eldest can babysit her siblings (obviously she would be paid). No one with 1-2 kids wants to do a babysitting co-op or swap with the family that has 6. Roll Eyes Our godparents used to babysit for us for free, but they moved a good 1.5 hours away. They raised 7 boys, plus a grand child (now a great grandchild). So babysitting our kids is no biggie to them.
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« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2013, 05:03:10 PM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.
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« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2013, 05:26:00 PM »


Equally annoying to me is, "Was s/he planned?"

Even weirder and inappropriate was, "How did you conceive?"


I had to LOL at these statements.  What do some people think?  Another good one "our Nth one was an accident".  My response is, "Oh really?  What happened?  Was your wife just innocently walking around when she tripped and just happened to fall on a penis?"  An "accident" . . . right.
My ex (then my wife) was being really irritable to the point that I finally forced it out of her (she liked to play "if you don't know I'm not going to tell you") why: "I think you got me pregnant."  I didn't ask what she was doing at the time.

(she was still nursing, and still had not gotten over the shock that mothering can be difficult: the baby doesn't always just lie in your arms and coo).
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« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2013, 05:29:05 PM »

Planned Parenthood approves of the presuppositions of this thread.
no: according to their founder, they never want you to have kids.  And marriage isn't necessary, only contraception.  And of course, abortion.
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« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2013, 05:31:09 PM »

Start crankin them out!  Smiley

Have as many as possible.  They don't have to be expensive.
Why?  Do they come with placentas of gold?
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« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2013, 07:47:17 PM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.

Having children less than 2 years apart is HARD on the body. Believe me, I know. I have 6 kids, my eldest is 11 and the youngest is 2 weeks. The first two are almost 4 years apart. The closest gap is 14 months between our 5th and 6th, the average gap between the rest is about 2 years. Right this moment I have a 11, 7, 6, 3, 1 and 2 week old. In October they will be 12, 8, 6, 4, 1 and 4 months.
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« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2013, 09:02:22 PM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.

Having children less than 2 years apart is HARD on the body. Believe me, I know. I have 6 kids, my eldest is 11 and the youngest is 2 weeks. The first two are almost 4 years apart. The closest gap is 14 months between our 5th and 6th, the average gap between the rest is about 2 years. Right this moment I have a 11, 7, 6, 3, 1 and 2 week old. In October they will be 12, 8, 6, 4, 1 and 4 months.

Wasn't hard on my body, but then, I wasn't the one pushing a kid through my vagina.  Putting up w/ my wife afterward, now THAT was the hard part.  Wink
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« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2013, 10:26:21 PM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.

Having children less than 2 years apart is HARD on the body. Believe me, I know. I have 6 kids, my eldest is 11 and the youngest is 2 weeks. The first two are almost 4 years apart. The closest gap is 14 months between our 5th and 6th, the average gap between the rest is about 2 years. Right this moment I have a 11, 7, 6, 3, 1 and 2 week old. In October they will be 12, 8, 6, 4, 1 and 4 months.

Wasn't hard on my body, but then, I wasn't the one pushing a kid through my vagina.  Putting up w/ my wife afterward, now THAT was the hard part.  Wink

Truth!  Also, conversation NOT to have when your wife is going through 24 hours of labor using the Lamaze method:

Man:  I am going to the lounge and get some sleep.  Wake me up when things get closer.

Nurse:  You mean you are not going to stay and help with this?

Man:  Well, I pretty much did my job nine months ago.

Nurses: Looks that could kill

Man: Sleeps with one eye open
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« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2013, 08:03:34 AM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.

Having children less than 2 years apart is HARD on the body. Believe me, I know. I have 6 kids, my eldest is 11 and the youngest is 2 weeks. The first two are almost 4 years apart. The closest gap is 14 months between our 5th and 6th, the average gap between the rest is about 2 years. Right this moment I have a 11, 7, 6, 3, 1 and 2 week old. In October they will be 12, 8, 6, 4, 1 and 4 months.

Wasn't hard on my body, but then, I wasn't the one pushing a kid through my vagina.  Putting up w/ my wife afterward, now THAT was the hard part.  Wink

Truth!  Also, conversation NOT to have when your wife is going through 24 hours of labor using the Lamaze method:

Man:  I am going to the lounge and get some sleep.  Wake me up when things get closer.

Nurse:  You mean you are not going to stay and help with this?

Man:  Well, I pretty much did my job nine months ago.

Nurses: Looks that could kill

Man: Sleeps with one eye open

Why did you not give me this advice 6 years ago?  I had that exact same convo and I still hear about it to this day.  It is exhausting work being the guy and trying to be supportive, you need sleep to rest up for all that excitement!
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« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2013, 08:24:51 AM »

Start crankin them out!  Smiley

Have as many as possible.  They don't have to be expensive.
Why?  Do they come with placentas of gold?

More to the point, do they come with instruction manuals?

Wasn't hard on my body, but then, I wasn't the one pushing a kid through my vagina.  Putting up w/ my wife afterward, now THAT was the hard part.  Wink

The young master was in a hurry, so the entire party was over in 5 hours. At breakfast time, no less. Cheesy
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« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2013, 09:19:57 AM »

Here's my bottled Orthodox reply:

Avoid intercourse on fast days, and on the nights before and after you receive Communion. Otherwise, have intercourse whenever you both want to, without using contraception, and trust in God.

If you don't like my bottled reply, try from the tap, i.e. your priest. Wink
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« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2013, 09:15:33 PM »

Here's my bottled Orthodox reply:

Avoid intercourse on fast days, and on the nights before and after you receive Communion. Otherwise, have intercourse whenever you both want to, without using contraception, and trust in God.

If you don't like my bottled reply, try from the tap, i.e. your priest. Wink

Bingo.

Sad to see such worldly replies here.
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« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2013, 09:58:27 PM »

Here's my bottled Orthodox reply:

Avoid intercourse on fast days, and on the nights before and after you receive Communion. Otherwise, have intercourse whenever you both want to, without using contraception, and trust in God.

If you don't like my bottled reply, try from the tap, i.e. your priest. Wink

Bingo.

Sad to see such worldly replies here.

I'm a bit confused as to why a couple cannot have sex the night before or soon after receiving Holy Communion.  What is the rationale behind such a teaching?  BTW, that is a sincere question. 
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« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2013, 11:25:40 PM »

There is a belief that you should fast from intercourse like you do from food, thus the fasting the night before. The night after is somewhat new to me.

It seems like only the REALLY old fashioned Orthodox, or the new converts do this. We as a couple have never done this. If we had, there would have literally been multiple years in a row that we couldn't do anything with the scheduling of the fasts, deployments, military training, and births of children. Our Khouria felt bad for my husband that he couldn't "do anything" when he came home on leave for the birth of our 4th child. She quite literally felt bad for him that he had to go over a year without intercourse. I imagine she isn't alone in this belief Wink
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« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2013, 05:41:48 AM »

There is a belief that you should fast from intercourse like you do from food, thus the fasting the night before. The night after is somewhat new to me.

It seems like only the REALLY old fashioned Orthodox, or the new converts do this. We as a couple have never done this. If we had, there would have literally been multiple years in a row that we couldn't do anything with the scheduling of the fasts, deployments, military training, and births of children. Our Khouria felt bad for my husband that he couldn't "do anything" when he came home on leave for the birth of our 4th child. She quite literally felt bad for him that he had to go over a year without intercourse. I imagine she isn't alone in this belief Wink

Some sources I've read argue that you don't need to fast from marital relations on every fast day, but only during the more serious fasting periods, e.g. you should avoid intercourse during Great Lent, but you don't have to during the Apostles' Fast.

I think the reason you're not meant to have relations the night after receiving Communion is because you're supposed to spend that day in prayer and thanksgiving. You don't need to fast from food, but sexual intercourse would be a distraction from prayer.
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« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2013, 07:09:16 AM »

Be like the Duggars, let God decide how many. So have all the sex you want
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« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2013, 09:43:10 AM »

Be like the Duggars, let God decide how many. So have all the sex you want

Also have a TV contract.
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« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2013, 09:59:41 AM »

Here's my bottled Orthodox reply:

Avoid intercourse on fast days, and on the nights before and after you receive Communion. Otherwise, have intercourse whenever you both want to, without using contraception, and trust in God.

If you don't like my bottled reply, try from the tap, i.e. your priest. Wink

Bingo.

Sad to see such worldly replies here.
will you be okay?
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« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2013, 10:10:02 AM »

Quote
How soon to have kids after marriage starts

Dear OP, based on my reading and experience...

Traditional Orthodox answer: Pray to God and hope for the best.
Modern conservative Orthodox answer: Ask your priest and hope for the best.
Modern moderate Orthodox answer: Ask your spouse and hope for the best.
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« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2013, 10:14:22 AM »

Quote
How soon to have kids after marriage starts

Dear OP, based on my reading and experience...

Traditional Orthodox answer: Pray to God and hope for the best.
Modern conservative Orthodox answer: Ask your priest and hope for the best.
Modern moderate Orthodox answer: Ask your spouse and hope for the best.
Modern liberal Orthodox answer: orgies
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« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2013, 10:44:38 AM »

I've never heard of any Orthodox advocating orgies, regardless of how liberal they were.  Shocked
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« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2013, 02:40:20 PM »

There is a belief that you should fast from intercourse like you do from food, thus the fasting the night before. The night after is somewhat new to me.

It seems like only the REALLY old fashioned Orthodox, or the new converts do this.

I don't know if it's a matter of "REALLY old fashioned Orthodox or new converts" doing this, or rather well-catechised Orthodox vs those less so.  In our Church, the received tradition is for spouses to abstain from sexual relations on fasting days/seasons and the night before the Liturgy, whether or not you receive Communion (abstinence the day of communing is not part of our tradition, I suspect that came much later).  It's not hard to locate that information, it's printed in the Liturgy books in the appendix on confession prep, but most priests don't talk about it publicly or even during pre-marital counseling (I know one priest who basically tells couples that it's all nonsense and that they should do whatever they want...and they do in fact go on to do what they want, including not keeping food fasts or coming to church when they don't feel like it).  In addition, many people today have an idea that the Church's jurisdiction ends at the threshold of their bedroom, or that these are rules made by monastics and have no place within marriage, that once you are married, anything at all goes. 

Admittedly, I fall somewhere between "libertine" and "monastic".  I think St Paul is pretty clear that abstinence from sexual relations within marriage is a temporary option for a specific purpose that must be mutually agreed upon, not a command that must be fulfilled even if one or both people legitimately are not up to it.  Keeping the food fasts, for example, is much easier because it doesn't require anything of another: if one spouse wants to keep a Lenten fast the day before communing, s/he can, and the other can eat steak and potatoes, and all is well.  But you really need to be "a team" when it comes to sexual abstinence for spiritual/ascetical purposes.  Sometimes, the bigger "cross" or sacrifice might be to give in for the sake of the weakness of the other in order for both to grow spiritually (of course, I presume a healthy marriage, not one where there's abuse or coercion, that needs to be dealt with differently).  And even in saying "give in for the sake of the weakness of the other", I don't even believe that's necessarily the right way of looking at it; for starters, sex within a healthy marriage isn't simply a legitimate way to "scratch a particular itch" or the means to repopulate the earth--there are many healthy, wholesome, noble reasons for it, it's beautiful and blessed, not something fundamentally dirty but tolerated.   

While I am loathe to blame a lot of these traditions on sexual abstinence in marriage on the excessive influence of monasticism, I do think that factors in.  Monastics have their own way of life that we non-monastics cannot always understand, and so we ought not impose our ways on them (and if/when they are imposed upon in a way they don't feel comfortable with, they have been known to ignore such things and do what they feel is right for them, trusting in the mercy of the Lord).  While sharing with us the benefits of their experience, I think monastics ought to extend the same courtesy to the married. 
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« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2013, 02:41:43 PM »

Modern liberal Orthodox answer: orgies

Am I wrong for having read this and imagined another type of "All Night Vigil", if only for a moment?  Tongue
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« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2013, 03:09:01 PM »

I know a woman that delivered her baby in the late fall. She had to abstain after delivery, then she had to abstain because of the Nativity fast. Then Lent came early that year, so she had to abstain for Lent. She figured that because she was breastfeeding she ought to fast from something. She ended up with 7 months of fasting from relations.
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« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2013, 03:26:44 PM »

I know a woman that delivered her baby in the late fall. She had to abstain after delivery, then she had to abstain because of the Nativity fast. Then Lent came early that year, so she had to abstain for Lent. She figured that because she was breastfeeding she ought to fast from something. She ended up with 7 months of fasting from relations.

Meh, I "fasted" unwillingly for a year after each of my kids was born because of my wife's scarring made it intolerable for her.  After the second one, I said NO MORE KIDS.
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« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2013, 04:25:26 PM »

I don't know if it's a matter of "REALLY old fashioned Orthodox or new converts" doing this, or rather well-catechised Orthodox vs those less so. 
...
I think St Paul is pretty clear that abstinence from sexual relations within marriage is a temporary option for a specific purpose that must be mutually agreed upon, not a command that must be fulfilled even if one or both people legitimately are not up to it. 
...

i agree with all your points, this is the general point of view in the coptic church too. i haven't bothered to check if we have less people born in november than the other months as a result, but generally people 'try' to abstain during the fasts and in the evening before taking Holy Communion.
this is why in churches with married priests, there is a 'day off' where no Holy Communion happens (so you won't find daily Holy Communion except when there is a monk priest).

i think for people who find fasting hard generally, the marital 'fasting' would be lessened for them.
remember the main point of all fasting is to be able to devote more time to prayer and work on your spiritual life, letting go of greed, pride etc. it is not a 'who is the best ascetic?' competition.
 Wink

we abstain from anything that may make us bleed after Holy Communion, so that would include marital relations, but i assume that by the evening it would be ok (church days traditionally ending at sunset). do you have the 'avoiding bleeding' thing in the syriac church, mor ephrem?
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« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2013, 04:28:20 PM »

Be like the Duggars, let God decide how many. So have all the sex you want

Also have a TV contract.
To be fair, that was after the kids though.

They were wealthy before since he had a successful political career
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« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2013, 05:39:49 PM »

we abstain from anything that may make us bleed after Holy Communion, so that would include marital relations, but i assume that by the evening it would be ok (church days traditionally ending at sunset). do you have the 'avoiding bleeding' thing in the syriac church, mor ephrem?

Yeah, we have that in our tradition, but that's even less well-known.  I don't think anyone has any qualms about discarding tissues used to stop a post-Communion nose-bleed, for example, even though technically they should be burned.  Mostly, I've exited the altar if, in doing something, I start to bleed (e.g., if I accidentally prick my finger with a safety pin), and come back when it's stopped.   
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« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2013, 05:48:05 PM »

Children are such a blessing.  If you will allow them to, they can teach you much about humility, selflessness, and unconditional love.  If you are ready to learn these virtues, by all means, have children in your first year of marriage.  If you struggle with selfishness and pride, your first year of marriage should be spent LITERALLY serving your spouse's needs (ideally, your spouse will reciprocate) in preparation for parenthood, as having children will come as a shock to you.  As for fasting from relations: that should be up to your spiritual father.  In my situation, if we fasted from relations on fast days, we would probably go for months without having relations, due to health issues, already having children, and my work situation. 
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« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2013, 06:29:32 PM »

While I am loathe to blame a lot of these traditions on sexual abstinence in marriage on the excessive influence of monasticism, I do think that factors in.  Monastics have their own way of life that we non-monastics cannot always understand, and so we ought not impose our ways on them (and if/when they are imposed upon in a way they don't feel comfortable with, they have been known to ignore such things and do what they feel is right for them, trusting in the mercy of the Lord).  While sharing with us the benefits of their experience, I think monastics ought to extend the same courtesy to the married. 

St. Augustine, who gets a lot of bad rap for "demonizing" sex by linking it to original sin or whatever, wrote a very insightful letter (262/PL 33, 1079) to a pious lady turned hyperdox, Ecdicia. She and her husband were both Christians. At some point, she started "playing nun" (wearing the clothes of a widow), refused to have marital relations and gave away half their fortune as charity to dubious clergymen behind his back. The poor man was fed up with it all before too long and he sought elsewhere what he wasn't getting at home. St. Augustine scolds her and advises her to ask his forgiveness. Should he have returned to her, they were to obey the apostolic counsel and never again deprive themselves of one another without mutual consent.   

On augustinus.it the letter is available in the Latin original and in Spanish and Italian translation. No English, unfortunately...   

Quote
EPISTOLA 262

Scripta post a. 395.

Ecdiciae, correptionem adhibens quam acerrimam et in mentem revocans uxorum officia in viros (nn. 14; 7-9) atque iniungens ut marito, veniam ab eo petens, satisfaciat (n. 11) quandoquidem a mutua continentia eum deterruerit inconsiderate elemosynas tribuendo ac vidualem habitum induendo (nn. 3; 5; 10).
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« Reply #64 on: June 18, 2013, 06:32:49 PM »

What do they do in Romania?
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« Reply #65 on: June 18, 2013, 06:43:43 PM »

What do they do in Romania?

You mean how soon people have kids once they are married? There's no standard Church teaching or practice on the matter. About the people from my neck of the woods there's a joke that "Banatians would have only one child, because they can't have half"... 
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« Reply #66 on: June 18, 2013, 09:47:36 PM »

On augustinus.it the letter is available in the Latin original and in Spanish and Italian translation. No English, unfortunately... 


I didn't know about this site, thanks!  Latin and Spanish will be just fine...
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« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2013, 09:59:18 PM »

I would think anytime ABOUT 9 months or after marriage would be great!    laugh
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« Reply #68 on: June 20, 2013, 11:33:48 AM »

I would think anytime ABOUT 9 months or after marriage would be great!    laugh
What was that old saying? First babies are always a month premature?  Wink
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« Reply #69 on: June 20, 2013, 01:01:55 PM »

I would think anytime ABOUT 9 months or after marriage would be great!    laugh
What was that old saying? First babies are always a month premature?  Wink
...and weigh 9 lbs.  Cheesy
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« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2013, 01:29:11 AM »

Me and my fiancé are planning to marry soon and we want to have children as soon as possible.

This is my first post here. I have gotten good first impressions of this site. Thanks for validating my account!
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« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2013, 08:03:37 AM »

Me and my fiancé are planning to marry soon and we want to have children as soon as possible.

This is my first post here. I have gotten good first impressions of this site. Thanks for validating my account!
Congratulations on your upcoming marriage!  Many years!

And welcome to the forum.  Smiley
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« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2013, 06:28:32 PM »

Here's the timeline of my marriage:

Met Anastasia in August. She says it was Aug. 27th, 2011. I'd trust her judgement. She says it was a Saturday. All I remember is it was the Greek Festival and we were both volunteering in the temple narthex.

I asked her out after OCF on September 25th - two days after her birthday, the deadline she had set for herself (unbeknownst to me) before which she would not go out with any guy because of focusing on a work-related exam she was studying for.

I asked her to marry me on January 1st, 2012 at midnight. We got married May 26th.

Our first baby (a son!) Athanasius (his middle name, but we call him by it) was born March 18th, 2013. I was married to her and she was pregnant before I'd known her for a year.

Honestly it surprised us both how quickly we moved, and how little we were unsure about moving so quickly. Neither of us are the sort to do that. I spent an hour yesterday researching cloth bags on Amazon to make sure we got the best for our money for cryin' out loud.

We had no valid reason to use contraception in our eyes - she has a very good paying job and I'm a student about to graduate and hopefully ship off to St. Vlad's. We had very strong relational supports in our friends and family around us, and we knew that our lifestyle could be sacrificed in a few areas to support the cost of a kid, and we could get help from others. Having a kid can be very cheap - a midwife home birth for a few thousand dollars, cloth diapers, and breastfeeding severely cuts down how much money a baby vacuums up. We do believe you have to have very serious reasons to use contraception, and even then our options are limited - we refuse to use anything abortificent and I'm allergic to latex.

But we also have a very unusual relationship. We can literally say anything to each other. My wife is very rational and straightforward and hates games. Having been a Psych major I've taken a lot of classes on marriage and family dynamics and learned how to communicate. We had very good pre-marital counseling. If one of us is doing something that annoys the other we say so, and the other takes it as an opportunity to become more caring and less selfish. We've been together a short time but have faced a few very serious issues, and came out more united and together. I'm not going to get into them here but they threatened every plan we had for the future, and we responded by sitting down together, going over our options, choosing one and having a backup. Our son spent the first week of his life in the hospital because he didn't breath at birth and they thought he had a seizure. Our relationship is very strong, even though we haven't been together very long.

I say all of this just to give a practical example of what others have said; It depends on the couple. I wouldn't have minded if Athanasius had come later, but we both went into marriage knowing this wasn't our decision. To both of us, if you're not ready for children you're not ready for marriage. That was us, however, and I can very easily see it being different for others. I will say this: God gave us to each other and will give us our children as He sees fit, and will provide for everything for us, body and soul. He will do the same for every other couple who trust in Him to do so.
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« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2013, 11:01:21 PM »

This is an interesting article on the various type of birth control. I wonder how accurate it is.

http://www.myfemininemind.com/2012/07/things-your-doctor-may-not-have-told_25.html
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« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2013, 01:24:02 AM »

This is an interesting article on the various type of birth control. I wonder how accurate it is.

http://www.myfemininemind.com/2012/07/things-your-doctor-may-not-have-told_25.html

Coming from someone who worked in healthcare for years, pretty accurate save for the whole pill and depo making you more likely to pick up AIDS. I have never heard of that until reading this unless one assumes the woman is having multiple sexual partners w/o a condom; worrying over only pregnancy and not disease. So I suppose anything relating to AIDS/HIV can be overlooked if the woman is in a monogamous relationship.

All those horrible sounding side effects are actually in the drug information insert (inside the drug maker's original packaging) they give the patient, but the patient rarely reads and almost always drops in the trash can on the way out of the office.
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« Reply #75 on: July 27, 2013, 12:45:23 PM »

it costs a few thousands pounds to give birth to a kid in usa?
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no wonder people come to the uk to have kids. if you are a uk resident, u get a free kid. just turn up at the hospital in labour and out it pops.



(disclaimer - for good health of mother and baby consult a doctor or midwife well before this point...)
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« Reply #76 on: July 27, 2013, 01:08:14 PM »

it costs a few thousands pounds to give birth to a kid in usa?
 Shocked

no wonder people come to the uk to have kids. if you are a uk resident, u get a free kid. just turn up at the hospital in labour and out it pops.



(disclaimer - for good health of mother and baby consult a doctor or midwife well before this point...)

Remember, there's no NHS in the USA! Wink
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« Reply #77 on: July 27, 2013, 01:15:41 PM »

yeah, but if figured it would cost about 300 - 500 dollars max, i mean it's not usually very complicated, people have had kids in cars, lifts etc.


(disclaimer: i have not had kids...)
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« Reply #78 on: July 27, 2013, 01:24:49 PM »

yeah, but if figured it would cost about 300 - 500 dollars max, i mean it's not usually very complicated, people have had kids in cars, lifts etc.


(disclaimer: i have not had kids...)
In this neck of the woods, a hospital birth will run $5,000 - $7,000 (£3,250.34 - £4,550.48), or as much as $30,000 (£19,502.04) if a Cesarean section is involved. (These are actual numbers from people I know.) This is in part due to how hospitals bill insurance companies rather than reflecting actual costs. For people without insurance, non-profit hospitals will often negotiate a much lower price after sending the initial bill.

A homebirth with a midwife present in my state costs $3,000 (£1,950.20) over the course of the pregnancy.

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« Reply #79 on: July 27, 2013, 02:14:08 PM »

yeah, but if figured it would cost about 300 - 500 dollars max, i mean it's not usually very complicated, people have had kids in cars, lifts etc.


(disclaimer: i have not had kids...)
In this neck of the woods, a hospital birth will run $5,000 - $7,000 (£3,250.34 - £4,550.48), or as much as $30,000 (£19,502.04) if a Cesarean section is involved. (These are actual numbers from people I know.) This is in part due to how hospitals bill insurance companies rather than reflecting actual costs. For people without insurance, non-profit hospitals will often negotiate a much lower price after sending the initial bill.

A homebirth with a midwife present in my state costs $3,000 (£1,950.20) over the course of the pregnancy.


Our last child, the bill was right around $10,000, and that was without complications.
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« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2013, 03:06:33 PM »

A hospital birth around here costs on average about $10,000. That's just the birth and pre-natal care (maybe not even that), not any post care, and much higher for a Caesarean. A midwife and homebirth cost us $3,000, including post care. Insurance covers most, if not all of it (our insurance covered the entire cost. I don't know about hospital births).

It's a business, mostly governed by insurance companies. Most of the money for our homebirth was paying for the time of our midwife (she was with us for over 24 hours when Anya was in labor, for example) and the doula, who was with us for most of that time too, and for several hours each pre-natal visit. It also covered some medicines (pitocin, ibuprofen, other things) and medical care (sutures, cervical checks, etc.) and even a second midwife when the first had to go with Athanasius to the hospital. Then they cleaned our house while we slept!

My wife is correcting me too and saying it was actually $2,800. So there's that lol (she does the bills and budget. I can no math).
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« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2013, 03:10:34 PM »

You have to be rich to be an American, or so it seems.
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« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2013, 03:18:29 PM »

You have to be rich to be an American, or so it seems.

On the other hand, getting rich is a lot easier when earning money is not a crime but actually encouraged by the state.
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« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2013, 03:30:10 PM »

I had my first son by emergency c-section. Granted I had insurance but a bill still got sent to me to submit an official claim...$9,800 dollars. So yes, it can put a hurt on a person's bank account if not insured!

Midwife is the way to go if able, IMO.
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« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2013, 03:44:29 PM »

it costs a few thousands pounds to give birth to a kid in usa?
 Shocked

no wonder people come to the uk to have kids. if you are a uk resident, u get a free kid. just turn up at the hospital in labour and out it pops.



(disclaimer - for good health of mother and baby consult a doctor or midwife well before this point...)
If they are born in the UK, aren't they then British subjects?  That's why we have the anchor baby industry here (many just don't pay the hospital bill).
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« Reply #85 on: July 27, 2013, 04:02:50 PM »

it costs a few thousands pounds to give birth to a kid in usa?
 Shocked

no wonder people come to the uk to have kids. if you are a uk resident, u get a free kid. just turn up at the hospital in labour and out it pops.



(disclaimer - for good health of mother and baby consult a doctor or midwife well before this point...)
If they are born in the UK, aren't they then British subjects?  That's why we have the anchor baby industry here (many just don't pay the hospital bill).

Not any more. One needs to have at least two generations of British subjects on one side to be considered one (that's why my son is). But deportation can take years to finalise, which is still an advantage.
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« Reply #86 on: July 27, 2013, 04:40:22 PM »

 Cheesy At least nine months regardless of where the sprog is to be born.
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« Reply #87 on: July 27, 2013, 05:07:58 PM »

yeah, but if figured it would cost about 300 - 500 dollars max, i mean it's not usually very complicated, people have had kids in cars, lifts etc.


(disclaimer: i have not had kids...)
In this neck of the woods, a hospital birth will run $5,000 - $7,000 (£3,250.34 - £4,550.48), or as much as $30,000 (£19,502.04) if a Cesarean section is involved. (These are actual numbers from people I know.) This is in part due to how hospitals bill insurance companies rather than reflecting actual costs. For people without insurance, non-profit hospitals will often negotiate a much lower price after sending the initial bill.

A homebirth with a midwife present in my state costs $3,000 (£1,950.20) over the course of the pregnancy.


Our last child, the bill was right around $10,000, and that was without complications.
Eesh. My personal experience with hospital birth and associated costs (which I am fairly certain is at least somewhat geographically dependent) is  eight years old.

Our second was born at home with no midwife, though a doula was present. I think that cost us $300.

Our homebirth with the midwife was $3,000 over the course of nine months, though she gave us the option of paying $2,800 if we made a single cash payment.

Here's an interesting infographic comparing U.S. birth costs to other countries.
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« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2013, 05:23:06 PM »

You have to be rich to be an American, or so it seems.

On the other hand, getting rich is a lot easier when earning money is not a crime but actually encouraged by the state.
Is this in politics yet? I have a lot to say..
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« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2013, 05:23:06 PM »

The medical costs in this country are osbcene.

It has tripled since 1996!!! And the highest first death rate...
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« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2013, 05:24:12 PM »

You have to be rich to be an American, or so it seems.

On the other hand, getting rich is a lot easier when earning money is not a crime but actually encouraged by the state.
Is this in politics yet? I have a lot to say..
Then why don't you start a thread in Politics to discuss what you want to say? Wink
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« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2013, 09:12:45 PM »

You have to be rich to be an American, or so it seems.

On the other hand, getting rich is a lot easier when earning money is not a crime but actually encouraged by the state.
Is this in politics yet? I have a lot to say..
Aren't there like 3 threads on stuff similar to this in Politics already? Do we really need another one?
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