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Author Topic: How soon to have kids after marriage starts  (Read 3247 times) Average Rating: 0
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Anastasia1
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« on: May 31, 2013, 04:49:29 PM »

Someone I know thinks it is ideal to have a first kid on the way within a year of getting married so as to not have time to become selfish (in how you live as married people or something). What do you guys think of that idea?
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 05:18:36 PM »

We had our first three years after we were married.  I think having them the first year would have been a mistake.  There was enough stress in our first year without throwing a kid into the mix.  When our kids came, we were ready for them and wanting them.
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2013, 05:21:39 PM »

As an unmarried man, my 2 cents would be to have as many kids as you can afford (wasn't that one of God's commandments, to reproduce and multiply?)
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013, 05:32:25 PM »

Depends on how big a lifestyle change comes with marriage. You need to find balance in life as a couple before the first child arrives. If marriage comes with relocation, a totally new crowd, new jobs, etc, it's better to wait at least a year. If you've known each other since childhood and move just down the road from your parents, you could start trying immediately. There are no guarantees that pregnancy will conform to whatever timetable you make, anyway.
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2013, 08:53:05 AM »

Personally, I wouldn't like to have a child in the first year (or even the first half of the second year) of the marriage. I think it's a time to enjoy finally living with each other as wife and husband, and also to work out how to live together.
And I think so although I was born in the first year of my parents marriage, but they were quite mature when they got married, so that's rather an exception...
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 09:12:23 AM »

Personally, I wouldn't like to have a child in the first year (or even the first half of the second year) of the marriage. I think it's a time to enjoy finally living with each other as wife and husband, and also to work out how to live together.
And I think so although I was born in the first year of my parents marriage, but they were quite mature when they got married, so that's rather an exception...

Agree.  I think that what is most important is to avoid is being born the way that I was - WELL within the first year of my parent's marriage.  That worked out OK, too.  But that is the exception and not the rule.
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 10:47:26 AM »

We had our first three years after we were married.  I think having them the first year would have been a mistake.  There was enough stress in our first year without throwing a kid into the mix.  When our kids came, we were ready for them and wanting them.
Pretty much the same thing here.  I told my wife we would START talking about it after two years.  About our third year we had our first, then the real stress began.  A marriage needs time to build a foundation, if possible.
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 10:48:31 AM »

Someone I know thinks it is ideal to have a first kid on the way within a year of getting married so as to not have time to become selfish (in how you live as married people or something). What do you guys think of that idea?
Most people I know don't need time to become selfish.

It would be nice to have some memories to look back on when you were just a couple (especially when the yuggins leave the nest).  We waited 3 years.
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2013, 10:49:37 AM »

As an unmarried man, my 2 cents would be to have as many kids as you can afford (wasn't that one of God's commandments, to reproduce and multiply?)
If you wait until you can afford kids, you'll never have any.
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2013, 11:45:32 AM »

no less than 9 months after marriage. for the pious, at least.
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2013, 12:21:52 PM »

As an unmarried man, my 2 cents would be to have as many kids as you can afford (wasn't that one of God's commandments, to reproduce and multiply?)
If you wait until you can afford kids, you'll never have any.
Yes.  A good rule would be to have one more than you think you should have.
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2013, 12:44:34 PM »

There is no right answer.  It depends on the couple and their circumstances.
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 04:24:38 PM »

It would depend upon the couple and individual people. My husband and I dated 3 years before we wed, then waited another 5 years before we had children. We waited 5 years because we gave ourselves 1 year to really consider it before we started having children, and it took 1 year of "trying" so to speak before we conceived.

The key is that children amplify every aspect of a marriage. The positive aspects are strengthened, the weak aspects are weakened more. If a couple had a firm foundation of a good relationship before they wed, then they could be ready for children immediately. There was little transition for us into marriage. Functionally the relationship was almost the same, except we could have sex, and sleep together. Wink We could have likely been OK having children earlier. But I am glad we have a few years to really enjoy being married before we had children.

So before you have children you need to have a strong marriage. That could take a few years, or you could be ready immediately. It really is individual to each couple, as well as each person.

Number of children is another discussion, for the record I have 6.
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 05:51:20 PM »

no less than 9 months after marriage. for the pious, at least.

you got there ahead of me!
 Wink

next question:
how long after marriage are people suppose to realise you are not having kids and stop asking?
*maybe should start new thread...
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2013, 06:04:29 PM »

I don't think anyone should *ever* ask a couple when they will start or stop having children.
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2013, 06:10:04 PM »

I also think that making snide remarks about "how that happens" to a couple with kids is just crass. But it is slightly better than lectures about overpopulation.

So if you live in a not-so-kid-friendly area you need to have a slightly thick skin before you endeavor to start a family.
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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2013, 06:13:15 PM »

Someone I know thinks it is ideal to have a first kid on the way within a year of getting married so as to not have time to become selfish (in how you live as married people or something). What do you guys think of that idea?

My first was born -4 months into the marriage, and eight years in we've had two fights ever. Maybe there's something to it.


I don't think anyone should *ever* ask a couple when they will start or stop having children.
Damn straight.

Equally annoying to me is, "Was s/he planned?"

Even weirder and inappropriate was, "How did you conceive?"

I also think that making snide remarks about "how that happens" to a couple with kids is just crass.
A while back someone asked me that and I started talking biology. It shut them up. ;-)
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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2013, 06:22:46 PM »


Equally annoying to me is, "Was s/he planned?"

Even weirder and inappropriate was, "How did you conceive?"


I had to LOL at these statements.  What do some people think?  Another good one "our Nth one was an accident".  My response is, "Oh really?  What happened?  Was your wife just innocently walking around when she tripped and just happened to fall on a penis?"  An "accident" . . . right.
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2013, 06:25:26 PM »

a friend of mine has 5 kids, all close together.
she is a great mum, so i think this is good.
especially as she brings them to church and they have a good time there and learn about God's love.
i think she is just like an evangelist or missionary as she brings lots of people to church.
 Smiley

i get on well with people with lots of kids as i automatically take one or two of them off them to play, evening the balance!
 Wink

punch, i know someone who had 4 'accidents' like this. by the 3rd one i wondered if a biology lesson was needed...
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2013, 06:30:54 PM »

There are no accidents, but there are surprises. Our sixth was a surprise. He is 14 months younger than his big brother. My godparents have two sons that are 11.5 months apart, that is just unfathomable to me Shocked
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2013, 06:42:18 PM »

There are no accidents, but there are surprises. Our sixth was a surprise. He is 14 months younger than his big brother. My godparents have two sons that are 11.5 months apart, that is just unfathomable to me Shocked

Have you heard the term "Irish twins"?  My wife has a friend who has a sibling born the same year as her.  I think your godparent's sons would classify as such.
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2013, 06:46:23 PM »

I believe they ended up being born in different years. I did tell my godmother about Irish twins...then had to explain it was sort of a racial/religious slur. They were Mormon at the time, so..yeah...there you go.

They ended up having 7 boys altogether.
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 07:00:52 PM »

Start crankin them out!  Smiley

Have as many as possible.  They don't have to be expensive.
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 07:32:50 PM »

Someone I know thinks it is ideal to have a first kid on the way within a year of getting married so as to not have time to become selfish (in how you live as married people or something). What do you guys think of that idea?

My parents waited 7 years before they had me and I'm the oldest.  THings were quite different.

My son arrived three weeks before our first wedding anniversary.  We were not necessarily planning on having kids (he was a surprise), but when you consider our age (I was 34), probably it was best for us to get started now, especially if we wanted to have more.

The following are consequences of us having a kid which meant the following: (circumstances may differ)
1) I had to get a better job, which I did.  Babies are expensive.  Fortunately, the job turned out to be one I really love and the extra income helped out so much with the medical expenses and just basic expenses of having a kid
2) But, I had to work longer hours and that meant more time away from him and my wife
3) Both my energies and my wife's are now committed entirely to our son.  it is rare for us to have any "alone" time. And, it's gotten to the point where we wonder what happened to our marriage that we have no time or next to no time with each other.  We both dearly love our son, but I hope and pray it's not at the expense of losing our love for each other, which we have to work on.

Our son is now almost one year (11 months tomorrow) and our lives are only enriched with him. However, our marriage is going through some strain.  My wife and I both love each other dearly, but since so much of our focus is on him, we are going to have to work that much harder on it.

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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2013, 08:02:36 PM »

Boy, there's some revealing posts in this thread.
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2013, 08:41:51 PM »

Planned Parenthood approves of the presuppositions of this thread.
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2013, 08:43:34 PM »

Planned Parenthood approves of the presuppositions of this thread.

oh if only i could post something here
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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2013, 08:53:33 PM »

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oh if only i could post something here

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« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2013, 09:15:39 PM »

Planned Parenthood approves of the presuppositions of this thread.

oh if only i could post something here

but you can't, can you!
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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2013, 11:53:17 PM »

I had to LOL at these statements.  What do some people think?  Another good one "our Nth one was an accident".  My response is, "Oh really?  What happened?  Was your wife just innocently walking around when she tripped and just happened to fall on a penis?"  An "accident" . . . right.

I really LOLed at this one.  Not LOL (I think that's really funny, so I'll imagine myself laughing a lot in my head), but LOL (I got reminded that it was midnight and that people are trying to sleep so I need to shut the ____ up). 
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« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2013, 12:02:46 AM »

I definitely think waiting a few years is wise.  You need a few years to work out issues and get to know each other better before you start cranking out kids.  Kids add stress.  Lots of stress. And grumpiness.  They have their good moments too, but lots of grumpiness.  If you are selfish, kids will knock that out of you in a hurry.  (Unless you just decide to be a crappy parent.  Don't do that.  Things get really ugly then.)
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« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2013, 04:09:50 AM »

scamandrius, invest in some baby sitters urgently!
try people without kids in your church.
(ok some people don't have kids coz they hate them, so those that look round and stare when your kid cries are not the ones to ask).
ask those that you see attached to someone else's kid during coffee time, or in the liturgy.
(hope u have some of those!)

once u have found a baby sitter, try to get out for a couple of times a month together. put on nice clothes (remove baby vomit) and go for a walk in the park or a coffee or whatever.
that way u get some time together and your baby sitter gets to play with someone else's kid!
it is also good for the kid to socialise without mum and dad sometimes.
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« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2013, 07:29:21 AM »

scamandrius, invest in some baby sitters urgently!
try people without kids in your church.
(ok some people don't have kids coz they hate them, so those that look round and stare when your kid cries are not the ones to ask).
ask those that you see attached to someone else's kid during coffee time, or in the liturgy.
(hope u have some of those!)

once u have found a baby sitter, try to get out for a couple of times a month together. put on nice clothes (remove baby vomit) and go for a walk in the park or a coffee or whatever.
that way u get some time together and your baby sitter gets to play with someone else's kid!
it is also good for the kid to socialise without mum and dad sometimes.

Easier said than done. Much easier said than done.
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« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2013, 02:17:59 PM »

 Sad
wish i could come over, virtual babysitting by computer messaging doesn't seem to work...
may God guide u and help u
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« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2013, 04:12:14 PM »

scamandrius, invest in some baby sitters urgently!
try people without kids in your church.
(ok some people don't have kids coz they hate them, so those that look round and stare when your kid cries are not the ones to ask).
ask those that you see attached to someone else's kid during coffee time, or in the liturgy.
(hope u have some of those!)

once u have found a baby sitter, try to get out for a couple of times a month together. put on nice clothes (remove baby vomit) and go for a walk in the park or a coffee or whatever.
that way u get some time together and your baby sitter gets to play with someone else's kid!
it is also good for the kid to socialise without mum and dad sometimes.

Easier said than done. Much easier said than done.

Much, much easier said than done. The best alternative is to sleep less. We stay up hours after all the kids go to bed so we can get some alone time. It is easier to get alone time when you have multiple kids (with some being older).

The babysitters here cost $10-15 an hour!!!!

The good news for us is that in a couple years our eldest can babysit her siblings (obviously she would be paid). No one with 1-2 kids wants to do a babysitting co-op or swap with the family that has 6. Roll Eyes Our godparents used to babysit for us for free, but they moved a good 1.5 hours away. They raised 7 boys, plus a grand child (now a great grandchild). So babysitting our kids is no biggie to them.
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« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2013, 05:03:10 PM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.
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« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2013, 05:26:00 PM »


Equally annoying to me is, "Was s/he planned?"

Even weirder and inappropriate was, "How did you conceive?"


I had to LOL at these statements.  What do some people think?  Another good one "our Nth one was an accident".  My response is, "Oh really?  What happened?  Was your wife just innocently walking around when she tripped and just happened to fall on a penis?"  An "accident" . . . right.
My ex (then my wife) was being really irritable to the point that I finally forced it out of her (she liked to play "if you don't know I'm not going to tell you") why: "I think you got me pregnant."  I didn't ask what she was doing at the time.

(she was still nursing, and still had not gotten over the shock that mothering can be difficult: the baby doesn't always just lie in your arms and coo).
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
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« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2013, 05:29:05 PM »

Planned Parenthood approves of the presuppositions of this thread.
no: according to their founder, they never want you to have kids.  And marriage isn't necessary, only contraception.  And of course, abortion.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2013, 05:31:09 PM »

Start crankin them out!  Smiley

Have as many as possible.  They don't have to be expensive.
Why?  Do they come with placentas of gold?
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2013, 07:47:17 PM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.

Having children less than 2 years apart is HARD on the body. Believe me, I know. I have 6 kids, my eldest is 11 and the youngest is 2 weeks. The first two are almost 4 years apart. The closest gap is 14 months between our 5th and 6th, the average gap between the rest is about 2 years. Right this moment I have a 11, 7, 6, 3, 1 and 2 week old. In October they will be 12, 8, 6, 4, 1 and 4 months.
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« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2013, 09:02:22 PM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.

Having children less than 2 years apart is HARD on the body. Believe me, I know. I have 6 kids, my eldest is 11 and the youngest is 2 weeks. The first two are almost 4 years apart. The closest gap is 14 months between our 5th and 6th, the average gap between the rest is about 2 years. Right this moment I have a 11, 7, 6, 3, 1 and 2 week old. In October they will be 12, 8, 6, 4, 1 and 4 months.

Wasn't hard on my body, but then, I wasn't the one pushing a kid through my vagina.  Putting up w/ my wife afterward, now THAT was the hard part.  Wink
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« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2013, 10:26:21 PM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.

Having children less than 2 years apart is HARD on the body. Believe me, I know. I have 6 kids, my eldest is 11 and the youngest is 2 weeks. The first two are almost 4 years apart. The closest gap is 14 months between our 5th and 6th, the average gap between the rest is about 2 years. Right this moment I have a 11, 7, 6, 3, 1 and 2 week old. In October they will be 12, 8, 6, 4, 1 and 4 months.

Wasn't hard on my body, but then, I wasn't the one pushing a kid through my vagina.  Putting up w/ my wife afterward, now THAT was the hard part.  Wink

Truth!  Also, conversation NOT to have when your wife is going through 24 hours of labor using the Lamaze method:

Man:  I am going to the lounge and get some sleep.  Wake me up when things get closer.

Nurse:  You mean you are not going to stay and help with this?

Man:  Well, I pretty much did my job nine months ago.

Nurses: Looks that could kill

Man: Sleeps with one eye open
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« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2013, 08:03:34 AM »

I don't know whether or not this is good advice, since I've never been married. But, with my outlook on life, I think the best thing to do is have them right away and "jump right" into it. Life is only as good as its hardest, worst moments, so you might as well deal with the obstacles and hard parts first.

On another note--this one I personally know about since I'm the oldest siblings--I think that it is better to have your first two (or three depending on how many children you plan to have) children VERY close to each other, with nothing larger than a two year age gap between them. The reason for this is because a lot of times parents have one oldest sibling, and then years later, they start popping out more children and expecting the one oldest child to be able to care for the rest of the siblings all alone.

At least if you have the first two or three kids very close to each other, the burden on them as the oldest children will be lighter in the future when they are babysitting for you, since they could share the work and take turns babysitting instead of one sibling having to do the whole thing.

My parents had me and my siblings all at different times. There is a 7 year age gap between all of us. I was born first, then 7 years later they had my brother, and then from there, 7 years later they had my baby sister. So there is a 7 year age difference between me and my brother, a 7 year age gap between my brother and sister, and a 14 year age gap between me and my sister. This is rather difficult because I have to care for all of them and any subsequent children my parents may decide to have. I personally would have preferred it if they had my brother within two years of having me, that way I'd have a closer friend and we could share the load of babysitting.

Having children less than 2 years apart is HARD on the body. Believe me, I know. I have 6 kids, my eldest is 11 and the youngest is 2 weeks. The first two are almost 4 years apart. The closest gap is 14 months between our 5th and 6th, the average gap between the rest is about 2 years. Right this moment I have a 11, 7, 6, 3, 1 and 2 week old. In October they will be 12, 8, 6, 4, 1 and 4 months.

Wasn't hard on my body, but then, I wasn't the one pushing a kid through my vagina.  Putting up w/ my wife afterward, now THAT was the hard part.  Wink

Truth!  Also, conversation NOT to have when your wife is going through 24 hours of labor using the Lamaze method:

Man:  I am going to the lounge and get some sleep.  Wake me up when things get closer.

Nurse:  You mean you are not going to stay and help with this?

Man:  Well, I pretty much did my job nine months ago.

Nurses: Looks that could kill

Man: Sleeps with one eye open

Why did you not give me this advice 6 years ago?  I had that exact same convo and I still hear about it to this day.  It is exhausting work being the guy and trying to be supportive, you need sleep to rest up for all that excitement!
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« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2013, 08:24:51 AM »

Start crankin them out!  Smiley

Have as many as possible.  They don't have to be expensive.
Why?  Do they come with placentas of gold?

More to the point, do they come with instruction manuals?

Wasn't hard on my body, but then, I wasn't the one pushing a kid through my vagina.  Putting up w/ my wife afterward, now THAT was the hard part.  Wink

The young master was in a hurry, so the entire party was over in 5 hours. At breakfast time, no less. Cheesy
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« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2013, 09:19:57 AM »

Here's my bottled Orthodox reply:

Avoid intercourse on fast days, and on the nights before and after you receive Communion. Otherwise, have intercourse whenever you both want to, without using contraception, and trust in God.

If you don't like my bottled reply, try from the tap, i.e. your priest. Wink
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