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Author Topic: Metr. Ware's accent  (Read 2866 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: May 27, 2013, 01:54:35 PM »

A fortnight or so I had an opportunity (for the 2nd time) to hear his lecture and I was astonished I could understand 99.(9)% of what he was saying. Most English I hear in the movies sounds like they have some food in their mouth and I can understand no more than 3/4 of what is said. But he was amazing. He even had a vibrant 'r'.

Did he changed his pronunciation to make easier for barbarians to understand him or is there some else explanation?
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 01:55:14 PM »

I don't know but Met. Ware has an amazing accent. Very pleasing to listen to.
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 01:56:59 PM »

British accent is lovely  Grin
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 01:58:10 PM »

Most English I hear in the movies sounds like they have some food in their mouth and I can understand no more than 3/4 of what is said.

American English.

I LOVE Metr. Ware's accent.
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 02:03:08 PM »

Most English I hear in the movies sounds like they have some food in their mouth and I can understand no more than 3/4 of what is said.

American English.

I do not think it's English vs. American thing. I myself use American accent since it's easier to pronounce (but less pleasant to hear). He just seemed to be VERY observant. Not sure what was the reason. Any ideas?

One acquaintance of mine said it was an Oxford/univeristy manner but I would like to confirm it.
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2013, 02:07:49 PM »

I do not think it's English vs. American thing. I myself use American accent since it's easier to pronounce (but less pleasant to hear). He just seemed to be VERY observant. Not sure what was the reason. Any ideas?

One acquaintance of mine said it was an Oxford/univeristy manner but I would like to confirm it.

Met. Ware was educated in a time when there was emphasis on acquiring proper RP (Received Pronunciation, the kind you hear in old BBC productions). Plus, lecturers learn how to project clearly, in order to be understood by everyone in the audience. Elocution techniques, mainly.
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2013, 02:14:19 PM »

I love his voice. He could read stuff out of the phone book and it would be fine with me. Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2013, 02:28:29 PM »

Most English I hear in the movies sounds like they have some food in their mouth and I can understand no more than 3/4 of what is said.

American English.

I do not think it's English vs. American thing.

I was talking about the movies. As for the Metr. Kallistos, I think it has something to do with his education.

I feel sorry for all the Britons. You have a great language but most of the Word ruin it with terrible accents and bad grammar.
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2013, 02:47:22 PM »

I'm willing to hear more about that 'RP' stuff.
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2013, 02:55:20 PM »

The wiki is a good place to start. Although it's heavy on the linguistic stuff.
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2013, 05:35:56 PM »

he is probably dead posh.
only really posh people speak like that, and they are very few in the uk.
i actually only met one person who spoke like that before and that was an awful headmaster at school who upset me many times.
so, unfortunately i have to read his writings as i can't listen to him!
he just sounds like someone making fun of a very extremely posh accent and i feel like i should laugh when i listen!
his writings are very good, i just hope i don't hear him give a lecture live, at least till i got over the shock about the accent and practiced many times listening at home without laughing.

by the way, i feel similarly about texas accents. there was some preacher my friend was listening to on the internet and i nearly laughed coz i thought he was joking! i didn't realise there were real people who speak like in the cowboy movies, i thought it was all a joke!

in case u wondered, lots of people laugh at my accent, coz i pick up a bit of an accent from everyone i meet, and as most of my friends don't speak very good english, i sound like an indian who was imprisoned in egypt for many years and then lived for at least 20 years in eastern europe without any access to english speaking people.
 Wink
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2013, 06:11:55 PM »

I was talking about the movies. As for the Metr. Kallistos, I think it has something to do with his education.

I feel sorry for all the Britons. You have a great language but most of the Word ruin it with terrible accents and bad grammar.

I don't see how the American Midwestern accent is bad at all. I may be a bit biased since I'm on the borders of the Midwest, but I don't think it's substantively worse that Met. Kallistos' dialect. If you want bad English, look at Newfie (Canadian) English.

And honestly I've heard some dreadful, barely intelligible British English speakers before. I'm not sure what regions they're associated with, but they're practically the British equivalent to the American South. Someone may know what I'm referring to.
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2013, 06:21:15 PM »

the dreadful british speakers are in all the regions!
we are the majority (the posh speakers, who actually sound great, i was not totally serious above are the minority) and we don't always understand each other, and we think it's really funny.
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2013, 06:33:21 PM »

For non-native speakers, especially if you've learned English from books, it helps to hear English spoken in a style that corresponds more to the written form. Met Kallistos uses a formal speaking style which does this, and this is part of traditional public speaking practice. The main thing is to avoid reducing or deleting unstressed vowels, or weakening or deleting consonants at the ends of syllables. Both of those make it much harder for non-native speakers to understand; the exception would be if you learn English entirely orally, by listening and speaking to people using casual or non-standard speaking styles.
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2013, 06:43:19 PM »

And honestly I've heard some dreadful, barely intelligible British English speakers before. I'm not sure what regions they're associated with, but they're practically the British equivalent to the American South. Someone may know what I'm referring to.

By common consent, the worst British accent is Black Country (Brummies and thereabouts). Glaswegian accent is likely to require an interpreter, but at least it has a modicum of charm in its harshness (think Simon Pegg doing Scotty). Cheesy
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2013, 07:32:49 PM »

I love his voice. He could read stuff out of the phone book and it would be fine with me. Smiley

In small doses, yes.  Otherwise, it's better than Ambien.  Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2013, 07:38:13 PM »

Can someone link to him speaking so those of us who haven't heard him can do so?
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« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2013, 07:45:34 PM »

And honestly I've heard some dreadful, barely intelligible British English speakers before. I'm not sure what regions they're associated with, but they're practically the British equivalent to the American South. Someone may know what I'm referring to.

By common consent, the worst British accent is Black Country (Brummies and thereabouts). Glaswegian accent is likely to require an interpreter, but at least it has a modicum of charm in its harshness (think Simon Pegg doing Scotty). Cheesy

 laugh laugh laugh

Just don't tell a Scot or a Yorkshireman he has a bad accent. You'll be taking your pick from the shovels before you can blink.  Wink

The most detestable accent in English has to be Valley Girl, which has, sadly, infected the language in most countries where English is traditionally spoken. It's worse than Brummie, I assure you.
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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2013, 07:45:56 PM »

Can someone link to him speaking so those of us who haven't heard him can do so?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjHGtCHyBrU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bq6XC6ZOVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kW0JSPbuSY

Some short videos on interesting subjects. There are entire lectures available, ranging from 35min to over an hour long.
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« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2013, 07:48:39 PM »

And honestly I've heard some dreadful, barely intelligible British English speakers before. I'm not sure what regions they're associated with, but they're practically the British equivalent to the American South. Someone may know what I'm referring to.

By common consent, the worst British accent is Black Country (Brummies and thereabouts). Glaswegian accent is likely to require an interpreter, but at least it has a modicum of charm in its harshness (think Simon Pegg doing Scotty). Cheesy

 laugh laugh laugh

Just don't tell a Scot or a Yorkshireman he has a bad accent. You'll be taking your pick from the shovels before you can blink.  Wink

The most detestable accent in English has to be Valley Girl, which has, sadly, infected the language in most countries where English is traditionally spoken. It's worse than Brummie, I assure you.

I love both Scottish and Yorkshire accents. The Edinburgh brogue was, even to my untrained ears back in 1995 (my first trip to the UK), one of the most understandable dialects I had to deal with.

As for Valley Girl... my vote would actually go to Chav, but that has (d)evolved into a separate language. >_<
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2013, 07:51:37 PM »

A fortnight or so I had an opportunity (for the 2nd time) to hear his lecture and I was astonished I could understand 99.(9)% of what he was saying. Most English I hear in the movies sounds like they have some food in their mouth and I can understand no more than 3/4 of what is said. But he was amazing. He even had a vibrant 'r'.

Did he changed his pronunciation to make easier for barbarians to understand him or is there some else explanation?

I'm surprised to read this actually. Your written English is so good on here and on Facebook that I forget you are not a native speaker. But then reading and writing is easier than speaking and listening.
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« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2013, 09:25:14 PM »

A British accent on an Orthodox hierarch seems to carry more authority.  Every time I hear fr. Meletios Webber, I just think "this guy must know everything."
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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2013, 09:29:59 PM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.
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« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2013, 09:33:12 PM »

A British accent on an Orthodox hierarch seems to carry more authority.  Every time I hear fr. Meletios Webber, I just think "this guy must know everything."

Warning .... do not judge a man only by his accent.

Whereas I enjoy listening to Met. Kallistos Ware, I absolutely avoid Fr. Meletios Webber. Fr. Webber's first sermon I heard was my last.
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« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2013, 09:37:20 PM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

This frustrated my father when he did graduate Farsi work in New York, where his classmates initially treated him as if he were retarded purely because of his dialect. They changed their behavior once they realized otherwise, but still shameful.
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« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2013, 09:37:40 PM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

I'm well aware of that. Don't patronize me.

A British accent on an Orthodox hierarch seems to carry more authority.  Every time I hear fr. Meletios Webber, I just think "this guy must know everything."

Warning .... do not judge a man only by his accent.

Whereas I enjoy listening to Met. Kallistos Ware, I absolutely avoid Fr. Meletios Webber. Fr. Webber's first sermon I heard was my last.

Suum cuique.
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« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2013, 09:47:34 PM »

For non-native speakers, especially if you've learned English from books, it helps to hear English spoken in a style that corresponds more to the written form. Met Kallistos uses a formal speaking style which does this, and this is part of traditional public speaking practice. The main thing is to avoid reducing or deleting unstressed vowels, or weakening or deleting consonants at the ends of syllables. Both of those make it much harder for non-native speakers to understand; the exception would be if you learn English entirely orally, by listening and speaking to people using casual or non-standard speaking styles.

I agree.

I have heard Orthodox Christians pronounce resurrection as "res-rec-tion" or worse "rec-tion," which almost comes across as "erection." It is really important to avoid reducing or deleting the unstressed syllables.

Condescension is often pronounced as "con-den-sa-tion" or "con-cen-sion."
Condescension and condensation are two different words, yet they are often interchanged by readers who really should practice beforehand.
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« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2013, 09:49:41 PM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

I'm well aware of that. Don't patronize me.

A British accent on an Orthodox hierarch seems to carry more authority.  Every time I hear fr. Meletios Webber, I just think "this guy must know everything."

Warning .... do not judge a man only by his accent.

Whereas I enjoy listening to Met. Kallistos Ware, I absolutely avoid Fr. Meletios Webber. Fr. Webber's first sermon I heard was my last.

Suum cuique.

No, I am just holding my tongue. Go do some research on Fr. Webber. I honestly pray that he is not made a bishop in the OCA. That is all I will say on the matter. He is not in the same league as Met. Kallistos.
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« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2013, 09:50:14 PM »

For non-native speakers, especially if you've learned English from books, it helps to hear English spoken in a style that corresponds more to the written form. Met Kallistos uses a formal speaking style which does this, and this is part of traditional public speaking practice. The main thing is to avoid reducing or deleting unstressed vowels, or weakening or deleting consonants at the ends of syllables. Both of those make it much harder for non-native speakers to understand; the exception would be if you learn English entirely orally, by listening and speaking to people using casual or non-standard speaking styles.

I agree.

I have heard Orthodox Christians pronounce resurrection as "res-rec-tion" or worse "rec-tion," which almost comes across as "erection." It is really important to avoid reducing or deleting the unstressed syllables.

Condescension is often pronounced as "con-den-sa-tion" or "con-cen-sion."
Condescension and condensation are two different words, yet they are often interchanged by readers who really should practice beforehand.

Condescension is a horrible translation to use in the first place.  Fr. Meletios taught me that.
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« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2013, 09:51:42 PM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

I'm well aware of that. Don't patronize me.

A British accent on an Orthodox hierarch seems to carry more authority.  Every time I hear fr. Meletios Webber, I just think "this guy must know everything."



Warning .... do not judge a man only by his accent.

Whereas I enjoy listening to Met. Kallistos Ware, I absolutely avoid Fr. Meletios Webber. Fr. Webber's first sermon I heard was my last.

Suum cuique.

No, I am just holding my tongue. Go do some research on Fr. Webber. I honestly pray that he is not made a bishop in the OCA. That is all I will say on the matter. He is not in the same league as Met. Kallistos.

Why do you assume I haven't?  Because I don't agree with you?  Hell of a standard.
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« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2013, 10:40:06 PM »

I do not think it's English vs. American thing. I myself use American accent since it's easier to pronounce (but less pleasant to hear). He just seemed to be VERY observant. Not sure what was the reason. Any ideas?

One acquaintance of mine said it was an Oxford/univeristy manner but I would like to confirm it.

Met. Ware was educated in a time when there was emphasis on acquiring proper RP (Received Pronunciation, the kind you hear in old BBC productions). Plus, lecturers learn how to project clearly, in order to be understood by everyone in the audience. Elocution techniques, mainly.
I was going to say he was taught to speak properly, but your explanation sounds better!
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« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2013, 11:56:14 PM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

I'm well aware of that. Don't patronize me.

I wasn't talking to you personally. I'm sure you know everything.
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« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2013, 11:58:44 PM »

For non-native speakers, especially if you've learned English from books, it helps to hear English spoken in a style that corresponds more to the written form. Met Kallistos uses a formal speaking style which does this, and this is part of traditional public speaking practice. The main thing is to avoid reducing or deleting unstressed vowels, or weakening or deleting consonants at the ends of syllables. Both of those make it much harder for non-native speakers to understand; the exception would be if you learn English entirely orally, by listening and speaking to people using casual or non-standard speaking styles.

I agree.

I have heard Orthodox Christians pronounce resurrection as "res-rec-tion" or worse "rec-tion," which almost comes across as "erection." It is really important to avoid reducing or deleting the unstressed syllables.

Condescension is often pronounced as "con-den-sa-tion" or "con-cen-sion."
Condescension and condensation are two different words, yet they are often interchanged by readers who really should practice beforehand.

Condescension is a horrible translation to use in the first place.  Fr. Meletios taught me that.

You've been taught by Father Meletios? Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2013, 12:25:12 AM »

Can someone link to him speaking so those of us who haven't heard him can do so?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjHGtCHyBrU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bq6XC6ZOVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kW0JSPbuSY

Some short videos on interesting subjects. There are entire lectures available, ranging from 35min to over an hour long.

The retired Conservative parliamentarian Ann Widdecombe is another who is a delight to listen to, not only for the accent, but for her brilliant mastery of the English language. Her stint on the British TV series Grumpy Old Women was a treasury of wit, wisdom, and naked truth.
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« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2013, 07:39:36 AM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

I'm well aware of that. Don't patronize me.

I wasn't talking to you personally. I'm sure you know everything.

More than you obviously.

For non-native speakers, especially if you've learned English from books, it helps to hear English spoken in a style that corresponds more to the written form. Met Kallistos uses a formal speaking style which does this, and this is part of traditional public speaking practice. The main thing is to avoid reducing or deleting unstressed vowels, or weakening or deleting consonants at the ends of syllables. Both of those make it much harder for non-native speakers to understand; the exception would be if you learn English entirely orally, by listening and speaking to people using casual or non-standard speaking styles.

I agree.

I have heard Orthodox Christians pronounce resurrection as "res-rec-tion" or worse "rec-tion," which almost comes across as "erection." It is really important to avoid reducing or deleting the unstressed syllables.

Condescension is often pronounced as "con-den-sa-tion" or "con-cen-sion."
Condescension and condensation are two different words, yet they are often interchanged by readers who really should practice beforehand.

Condescension is a horrible translation to use in the first place.  Fr. Meletios taught me that.

You've been taught by Father Meletios? Lord have mercy.

Not personally, no.  But now it is time you laid your cards on the table and explain your opposition to him.  And you CAN do that in a way without resorting to name calling or other viciousness.  You can no longer hide behind "I'm going to hold my tongue" or other such cliches especially with your last comment towards me.  So, explain.
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« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2013, 08:26:17 AM »

Most English I hear in the movies sounds like they have some food in their mouth and I can understand no more than 3/4 of what is said.

American English.
I do not think it's English vs. American thing. I myself use American accent since it's easier to pronounce (but less pleasant to hear). He just seemed to be VERY observant. Not sure what was the reason. Any ideas?

One acquaintance of mine said it was an Oxford/univeristy manner but I would like to confirm it.


Yes, that is correct: his accent is called "Oxford".  When I lived in Ontario I was told that up until about 1970 in Ontario good choirs were taught to sing with an Oxford accent with a specific enunciation of the consonants and vowels.  Also the “r” which you noticed.  Also there used to be speech contests called “English Bible Reading” and contestants were required to read passages of the King James version of the Bible with an Oxford pronunciation. 

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« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2013, 09:52:16 AM »

Also there used to be speech contests called “English Bible Reading” and contestants were required to read passages of the King James version of the Bible with an Oxford pronunciation. 

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« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2013, 10:42:39 AM »

I love his voice. He could read stuff out of the phone book and it would be fine with me. Smiley

I had the great honor of having lunch with Metropolitan Kallistos when he visited Atlanta. I could listen to that man talk for days - also he has a great sense of humor.
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« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2013, 11:17:01 AM »

Met Ware does pretty good lullabies. I'm knocked out in 5 minutes.
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« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2013, 12:22:57 PM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

I'm well aware of that. Don't patronize me.

I wasn't talking to you personally. I'm sure you know everything.

More than you obviously.


Huh?
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« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2013, 12:29:11 PM »

I do not think it's English vs. American thing. I myself use American accent since it's easier to pronounce (but less pleasant to hear). He just seemed to be VERY observant. Not sure what was the reason. Any ideas?

One acquaintance of mine said it was an Oxford/univeristy manner but I would like to confirm it.

Met. Ware was educated in a time when there was emphasis on acquiring proper RP (Received Pronunciation, the kind you hear in old BBC productions). Plus, lecturers learn how to project clearly, in order to be understood by everyone in the audience. Elocution techniques, mainly.

Agreed. Such used to be the mark of a man or woman of good education and upbringing. The BBC in a headlong rush to be more 'of the people' eschewed Received Pronunciation in favour of regional accents and standards slipped. A voice I long liked listening to was the late Alistair Cooke, in his wireless broadcasts, 'Letters from America'. Another is the American, Bill Bryson, who is a favourite with my brothers too. It cannot be denied that together with a certain vocabulary it marked out those who 'belonged' and who 'didn't'.

Clear diction however is not limited to speakers who use RP, I have known those who are users of local dialects but unfamiliarity with the 'idioms' and usage of such dialects can make even the clearest speaker nigh unintelligible to a 'foreigner'. I use the term 'foreigner' in the sense of some dialect speakers, i.e. someone from the next village or beyond.

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« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2013, 01:05:19 PM »

I do not think it's English vs. American thing. I myself use American accent since it's easier to pronounce (but less pleasant to hear). He just seemed to be VERY observant. Not sure what was the reason. Any ideas?

One acquaintance of mine said it was an Oxford/univeristy manner but I would like to confirm it.

Met. Ware was educated in a time when there was emphasis on acquiring proper RP (Received Pronunciation, the kind you hear in old BBC productions). Plus, lecturers learn how to project clearly, in order to be understood by everyone in the audience. Elocution techniques, mainly.

Agreed. Such used to be the mark of a man or woman of good education and upbringing. The BBC in a headlong rush to be more 'of the people' eschewed Received Pronunciation in favour of regional accents and standards slipped. A voice I long liked listening to was the late Alistair Cooke, in his wireless broadcasts, 'Letters from America'. Another is the American, Bill Bryson, who is a favourite with my brothers too. It cannot be denied that together with a certain vocabulary it marked out those who 'belonged' and who 'didn't'.

Clear diction however is not limited to speakers who use RP, I have known those who are users of local dialects but unfamiliarity with the 'idioms' and usage of such dialects can make even the clearest speaker nigh unintelligible to a 'foreigner'. I use the term 'foreigner' in the sense of some dialect speakers, i.e. someone from the next village or beyond.



There are a lot of retired British citizens some of whom have become U.S. citizens where I live.
They all tell me that Britain has more accents than the USA with each city, village, or suburb having a distinct accent. It is so bad that those from the north cannot understand those from the south; those from the east cannot understand those from the west; and the distance on that island in the pond is not as great as that in China. The UK has certainly become a paradise for linguists who like to do research, but some fear that these diverse accents and dialects of English may be causing airplane crashes.

However, the Northern Cities dialect as heard in Chicago city taxi cab drivers can drive people nuts!
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« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2013, 01:33:59 PM »

I listen to BBC frequently, and there is still a difference, modern BBC may not be using RP as much though.

(these aren't examples of RP, just various English accents)

Metropolitan Kallistos: http://youtu.be/3F7h-TStNd8

Archimandrite Irenei Steenberg: http://youtu.be/AZX7PmxtLxU

Fr. John Behr: http://youtu.be/Gy-gCEWh5-4

CS Lewis: http://youtu.be/JHxs3gdtV8A

JRR Tolkein: http://youtu.be/XR-4vMEiQ_U

Winston Churchill: http://youtu.be/MkTw3_PmKtc
(I can barely understand Churchill as an American)

David Cameron: http://youtu.be/6bZb2EGFIa4

Hugh Laurie interview with Craig Ferguson (love Craig's Scottish accent!): http://youtu.be/8YNRWRCGi0w

Harry Potter actors/actresses trying to speak with American accents: http://youtu.be/Xle3UpK5bq8
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« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2013, 01:40:11 PM »

Winston Churchill: http://youtu.be/MkTw3_PmKtc
(I can barely understand Churchill as an American)

He sounds like Emperor Palpatine to me.
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« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2013, 01:44:37 PM »

Winston Churchill: http://youtu.be/MkTw3_PmKtc
(I can barely understand Churchill as an American)

He sounds like Emperor Palpatine to me.

I love how the vast majority of actors for the Empire were British, and the Rebels were mainly American. Of course, you had some masterful actors in the saga... Ian McDiarmid, Christopher Lee, Alec Guinness, Peter Cushing etc...
Also, could anyone imagine Darth Vader with his accent? http://youtu.be/YSm9DDxQv8E

It was kind of cool, when I played SWTOR, the Sith Empire's voice actors were all British, whereas the Republic's voice actors were mostly American.
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« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2013, 01:52:51 PM »

^I remember watching latest James Bond movie and thinking that it is fairly obvious that this isn't an American film. AFAIK American movie heroes tend to be a lot more casual than Bond is.
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« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2013, 02:08:22 PM »

^I remember watching latest James Bond movie and thinking that it is fairly obvious that this isn't an American film. AFAIK American movie heroes tend to be a lot more casual than Bond is.

I find American heroes to be much more cowboy & action-oriented than non-American heroes. I almost wonder if they've amped up Bond from the books just to make it more appealing to Americans.

Also, I found that while I was in Greece, I had to clean up my English in order to be understood. Apparently I would mumble, slur my speech and draw things out (I guess a feature of some parts of Missouri), so I started trying to clean my speech up, and actually had two Greeks tell me they didn't think I was American because I was so easily understandable and didn't have a strong accent.

I also met a Greek-American girl who lives in Greece now who runs a salon, I was sent there for a haircut. It was funny how both of us started out with cleaner speech, and then fell back into our natural accents, me into my Western Missouri accent, her to her New York/New Jersey accent.
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« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2013, 02:28:10 PM »

Also, could anyone imagine Darth Vader with his accent? http://youtu.be/YSm9DDxQv8E

James Earl Jones' voice has the same range and similar timbre to Christopher Lee's. Casting is not accidental. Wink
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« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2013, 03:54:45 PM »

Also, could anyone imagine Darth Vader with his accent? http://youtu.be/YSm9DDxQv8E

James Earl Jones' voice has the same range and similar timbre to Christopher Lee's. Casting is not accidental. Wink

? That is David Prowse, the actor for Darth Vader, whose voice was dubbed over with Jones'.
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« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2013, 04:07:44 PM »

Also, could anyone imagine Darth Vader with his accent? http://youtu.be/YSm9DDxQv8E

James Earl Jones' voice has the same range and similar timbre to Christopher Lee's. Casting is not accidental. Wink

? That is David Prowse, the actor for Darth Vader, whose voice was dubbed over with Jones'.

I feel kinda sorry for him. He was just a dummy for the costume - because the face we see at the end of Episode VI is Sebastian Shaw's (in the original version, before Hayden Christensen was airbrushed in).
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« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2013, 03:02:19 AM »

Archimandrite Irenei Steenberg: http://youtu.be/AZX7PmxtLxU

Umm, Devin, Archim. Irenei is actually American, who became an Oxford don. He's now at St Tikhon's Seminary. Fr Irenei's accent is a hybrid, and not something that anyone could call "British" or "English".
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« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2013, 03:07:26 AM »

Also, could anyone imagine Darth Vader with his accent? http://youtu.be/YSm9DDxQv8E

James Earl Jones' voice has the same range and similar timbre to Christopher Lee's. Casting is not accidental. Wink

? That is David Prowse, the actor for Darth Vader, whose voice was dubbed over with Jones'.

I feel kinda sorry for him. He was just a dummy for the costume - because the face we see at the end of Episode VI is Sebastian Shaw's (in the original version, before Hayden Christensen was airbrushed in).

Have you heard David Prowse speaking Darth Vader's lines? Footage prior to sound editing exists of this. Hilarious. No surprise at all that his voice was dubbed. Mr Prowse simply couldn't compete with Mr Jones in the vocal department.

Aboyt 30 years ago, a radio play version of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back was produced. The voice of Darth Vader was provided by Brock Peters, a black actor with a voice just as compelling and evocative as that of James Earl Jones.
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« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2013, 03:54:50 AM »

An example of exaggerated Received Pronunciation (RP) would be beautifully illustrated by the British art critic, Brian Sewell.
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« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2013, 08:32:48 AM »

Also, could anyone imagine Darth Vader with his accent? http://youtu.be/YSm9DDxQv8E

James Earl Jones' voice has the same range and similar timbre to Christopher Lee's. Casting is not accidental. Wink

? That is David Prowse, the actor for Darth Vader, whose voice was dubbed over with Jones'.

I feel kinda sorry for him. He was just a dummy for the costume - because the face we see at the end of Episode VI is Sebastian Shaw's (in the original version, before Hayden Christensen was airbrushed in).

Have you heard David Prowse speaking Darth Vader's lines? Footage prior to sound editing exists of this. Hilarious. No surprise at all that his voice was dubbed. Mr Prowse simply couldn't compete with Mr Jones in the vocal department.

Aboyt 30 years ago, a radio play version of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back was produced. The voice of Darth Vader was provided by Brock Peters, a black actor with a voice just as compelling and evocative as that of James Earl Jones.

Brock Peters does have an excellent voice.  SOme of his most famous credits, for those who don't know, were:
1) Admiral Cartwright in Star Treks IV and VI
2) Captain Sisko's father in Star Trek: DS9
3) Tom Robinson in the screen version of "To Kill a Mockingbird"
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« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2013, 09:26:04 AM »

Archimandrite Irenei Steenberg: http://youtu.be/AZX7PmxtLxU

Umm, Devin, Archim. Irenei is actually American, who became an Oxford don. He's now at St Tikhon's Seminary. Fr Irenei's accent is a hybrid, and not something that anyone could call "British" or "English".

Wow, I didn't know that. I know a guy that is American and spent a few years in the UK and now has an English accent.
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« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2013, 07:54:59 AM »

Dialect is rather unimportant.  Clarity of pronunciation, OTOH...that being said, I can't stand women with English accents, but have an affinity for a woman with an Irish or Scottish accent/dialect.  I think Americans make a bigger deal on dialect/accent variations than any other nationality on Earth.  And I'm from the South (kind of an adopted Appalachian hillbilly; I love it!), so take what you will from this reply.
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« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2013, 08:23:33 AM »

Not too sure one may speak of an English, Irish or American accent. In each case there are similarities and differences. In Ireland a Cork accent is different from that of Wexford, Dublin or Belfast. In England accents vary across the country, only television soaps seeming to bring about hybrid speech patterns. Americans from one area may speak very differently from another.
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« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2013, 08:32:51 AM »

Not too sure one may speak of an English, Irish or American accent. In each case there are similarities and differences. In Ireland a Cork accent is different from that of Wexford, Dublin or Belfast. In England accents vary across the country, only television soaps seeming to bring about hybrid speech patterns. Americans from one area may speak very differently from another.

You are correct, of course, and I should have know better having studied linguistics in English and Spanish.  The best specificity I can come up with would be a London accent (even then, different neighborhoods have different dialect/accents, i.e. West Ham vs. Chelsea).  Mass media (TV/internet) assists in the continued stereotypes of people's dialects.
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« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2013, 09:44:36 AM »

My dislike is for slovenly speech and/poor diction. This simply because it disrupts the flow of communication. Different accents, speeds of speech and dialect words and phrases may be a struggle but can be overcome with increasing familiarity or sub-titles.

I enjoy listening to West Country accents and sometimes the tales I hear spoken in them. Around here exist both Birmingham and Black Country accents, not considered by too many as attractive. However I am minded to recall that it is thought that William Shakespeare's speech would sounded nearer these looked down upon accents than the socially upmarket tones of Received Pronunciation.

The variety and richness of regional variations, dialects and vocabulary is, I feel, exciting. Sadly, television's long arm appears to rob us little by little of such richness.
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« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2013, 10:18:15 AM »

The variety and richness of regional variations, dialects and vocabulary is, I feel, exciting. Sadly, television's long arm appears to rob us little by little of such richness.

Hear, hear.
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« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2013, 10:22:38 AM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

Sure it does.. It is not always accurate, but it does convey a sense of class.

A high British accent conveys upper class and education and a cockney accent does the opposite.

I had a friend who worked for Booze Allen. She had a syrupy Southern Accent being from Georgia. She had to take voice/accent lessons in order to be taken seriously as a Professional..  
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« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2013, 10:25:01 AM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

Sure it does.. It is not always accurate, but it does convey a sense of class.

A high Oxford accent conveys upper class and education and a cockney accent does the opposite.

I had a friend who worked for Booze Allen. She had a syrupy Southern Accent being from Georgia. She had to take voice/accent lessons in order to be taken seriously as a Professional.. 

I'd prefer a Georgia girl to an Oxford girl any day of the week though.
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« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2013, 10:34:13 AM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

Sure it does.. It is not always accurate, but it does convey a sense of class.

A high Oxford accent conveys upper class and education and a cockney accent does the opposite.

I had a friend who worked for Booze Allen. She had a syrupy Southern Accent being from Georgia. She had to take voice/accent lessons in order to be taken seriously as a Professional.. 

I'd prefer a Georgia girl to an Oxford girl any day of the week though.

Only if she looked like Julia Roberts in Steel Magnolias as well. Wink
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« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2013, 10:42:03 AM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

Sure it does.. It is not always accurate, but it does convey a sense of class.

A high British accent conveys upper class and education and a cockney accent does the opposite.

I had a friend who worked for Booze Allen. She had a syrupy Southern Accent being from Georgia. She had to take voice/accent lessons in order to be taken seriously as a Professional..  

Sure it does what? Sure it conveys intelligence? The answer to that is no. And class is not intelligence. I thought as a leftie you'd know that.
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« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2013, 11:06:01 AM »

I recall visiting a day centre for people with a wide range of disabilities. On arrival a man with a rich cultured voice and dressed to match greeted me and asked if could help me. He did so in the most polished manner. Intelligence? He had Down's syndrome and a IQ of less than 70. What he did have was parents who were successful medical practitioners and an upbringing to match. In other words he had most, if not all, the marks of someone from the English upper middle class.

And unlike many who had the blessing of greater intelligence but not the same social advantages I understood every word he said, and each was appropriately used.

No, social hierarchy and intelligence are not one and the same.  Wink
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« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2013, 11:11:33 AM »

I do not think it's English vs. American thing. I myself use American accent since it's easier to pronounce (but less pleasant to hear). He just seemed to be VERY observant. Not sure what was the reason. Any ideas?

One acquaintance of mine said it was an Oxford/univeristy manner but I would like to confirm it.

Met. Ware was educated in a time when there was emphasis on acquiring proper RP (Received Pronunciation, the kind you hear in old BBC productions). Plus, lecturers learn how to project clearly, in order to be understood by everyone in the audience. Elocution techniques, mainly.

When assigned to NATO, I worked for a UK Colonel. I understood him perfectly; it turned out he had received proper education and eschewed English dialects that can be unintelligible. That was the case when I spent an overnight in London; I could not understand most of the Londoners--half mumbled and the other half spoke with a Cockney accent. The same happens in American English; the standard is Midwestern, but some regional dialects are unfortunately lionized for various (unpersuasive) reasons.
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« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2013, 11:17:07 AM »

I do not think it's English vs. American thing. I myself use American accent since it's easier to pronounce (but less pleasant to hear). He just seemed to be VERY observant. Not sure what was the reason. Any ideas?

One acquaintance of mine said it was an Oxford/univeristy manner but I would like to confirm it.

Met. Ware was educated in a time when there was emphasis on acquiring proper RP (Received Pronunciation, the kind you hear in old BBC productions). Plus, lecturers learn how to project clearly, in order to be understood by everyone in the audience. Elocution techniques, mainly.

When assigned to NATO, I worked for a UK Colonel. I understood him perfectly; it turned out he had received proper education and eschewed English dialects that can be unintelligible. That was the case when I spent an overnight in London; I could not understand most of the Londoners--half mumbled and the other half spoke with a Cockney accent. The same happens in American English; the standard is Midwestern, but some regional dialects are unfortunately lionized for various (unpersuasive) reasons.
The Ohio Valley accent is neutral and easily understood by all, which is why newscasters use it and have made it the standard.
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« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2013, 12:26:41 PM »

I hope you guys all realize that someone's dialect does not say anything about his intelligence. It might say something about his education level, ethnic or social background, or political stance.

Sure it does.. It is not always accurate, but it does convey a sense of class.

A high British accent conveys upper class and education and a cockney accent does the opposite.

I had a friend who worked for Booze Allen. She had a syrupy Southern Accent being from Georgia. She had to take voice/accent lessons in order to be taken seriously as a Professional..  

Sure it does what? Sure it conveys intelligence? The answer to that is no. And class is not intelligence. I thought as a leftie you'd know that.

Follow along.. Certain accents convey the class you belong to. Hence, many people make assumptions about your level of education and similar things. Do you really think that is not so?
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« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2013, 12:45:52 PM »

But he was amazing. He even had a vibrant 'r'.

Did he changed his pronunciation to make easier for barbarians to understand him or is there some else explanation?

There are many types of British accents, I know his R rolling is not standard British English though. Maybe it's an effect of his Greek language or something. I know my Spanish-Arabic-Greek accent interferes with my English R and D.
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"Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth.... While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." (Eugene Debs)
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« Reply #69 on: August 12, 2013, 12:47:52 PM »

Poppy
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