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Author Topic: Home grown meth is destroying Americans  (Read 2188 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2013, 09:52:18 PM »

Sorry if I was too harsh. I am just so sick and tired of hearing the pathology around here everytime topics like this come up and then pontificating the crude conservative framework that comes out of it.
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« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2013, 10:24:08 PM »


Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.

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« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2013, 10:37:20 PM »

Wait, wait, wait, wait, WAIT. WAIT!

You can grow meth?  Shocked





Sorry if anyone on the 2nd page beat me to it
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« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2013, 10:40:10 PM »

If they sold it at either trader joes of whole foods Maria would take it, I bet.
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« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2013, 10:52:12 PM »


That's uncalled for.
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« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2013, 12:07:19 AM »


Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.




I agree Liza. Meth is a horrible drug that has destroyed families and wreaked havoc on entire communities. Meth has done to poor, rural white communities what crack has done to poor, urban black communities. There is no place in America today that has not been indelibly stained with the plight of chemically manufactured and highly addictive drugs. And I don't know why acknowledging this sad reality is somehow considered "right wing conservative propaganda."


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« Reply #96 on: May 29, 2013, 12:33:24 AM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.

Pretty much this.

Not everybody.  The only time I had a "buzz" was when I was in the hospital with kidney stones.  I got both demerol and dilaudid injections.  The first shot was heavenly because I could finally breath.  The pain was still there, but, it was bearable.

I have to say that was the ONLY thing I liked about it....that the pain subsided to a dull roar.  I didn't like the fuzzy fealing, I didn't like the dizziness, I didn't like the whole experience.

The nurse kept coming in like clockwork to give me these shots....until I finally told her NO!!!  No more!!!!  I'll take the pain.  She was shocked.  She stated that she's already measured it out....like that would make a difference to me....and that now it's my fault that it will go to waste, and I should just let her inject me...since it's already in the syringe.  No.  No more.

She walked away shaking her head.

...and I've also never been drunk.

I could never understand the whole hype around getting drunk.  Seems so stupid.  If you have to be drunk to have fun, are you actually really having any fun?



I know no one who gets drunk to have fun.  You get drunk to escape.

How loose are you being with the word "escape"?  I have known plenty of people who get drunk without intending to escape anything except perhaps the humdrum of everyday life.  But that is what ALL pastimes are for.  I personally have gotten drunk to escape at some times and just to have fun at others. 
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« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2013, 12:52:34 AM »


Yeah, I don't think all the college boys were "escaping"...they were just having their version of fun.
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« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2013, 01:10:21 AM »

I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left. 

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.

No, it isn't about wealth and poverty.  Ask the Swedish Rioters...



Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.




I agree Liza. Meth is a horrible drug that has destroyed families and wreaked havoc on entire communities. Meth has done to poor, rural white communities what crack has done to poor, urban black communities. There is no place in America today that has not been indelibly stained with the plight of chemically manufactured and highly addictive drugs. And I don't know why acknowledging this sad reality is somehow considered "right wing conservative propaganda."


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« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2013, 05:24:20 AM »

Well, addiction is a learned behavior. They offer addiction counseling and treatment programs ... Are you aware of something called drug-induced psychosis?..

It CAN be a learned behavior, but not usually.
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« Reply #100 on: May 29, 2013, 05:25:50 AM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.
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« Reply #101 on: May 29, 2013, 05:27:24 AM »

police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.

Thank God....a voice of reason...and someone who knows what he is talking about.

Not really.

It's just another non-thinking petty white man bourgeois fantasy propagated under thin guise of Christianity. I would be afraid if someone like him took some sort of power to start a nutty cultural hegemony.

I don't like drug dealers either, but you have to be kidding yourself if you truly believe it has anything to do with lack of respect and belief in God. What utter nonsense. These middle class sensibilities bore me.

And really, all drugs destroy society? Get real. Folks who smoke a bowl after work because it relaxes them or whatever are okay in my book.

It's too bad we live in a screwed up world where the alternative to not working for the institutions is being a drug addict or unemployed. Maybe get into porn which you can be screwed for 800 dollars a shoot versus getting screwed at a McJob for 8.50 an hr.

Might want to fix the alternative before you approach the drugs. Or lay off whatever crack you smoked out of a Glenn Beck book when you wrote your post.

Wow! Shocked

You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.
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« Reply #102 on: May 29, 2013, 05:29:04 AM »

Sorry if I was too harsh. I am just so sick and tired of hearing the pathology around here everytime topics like this come up and then pontificating the crude conservative framework that comes out of it.

No worries.  Not everyone responds to truth calmly. 
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« Reply #103 on: May 29, 2013, 05:29:42 AM »


Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.



You can always spot the angry youth, even on the internet.
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« Reply #104 on: May 29, 2013, 05:31:08 AM »


Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.




I agree Liza. Meth is a horrible drug that has destroyed families and wreaked havoc on entire communities. Meth has done to poor, rural white communities what crack has done to poor, urban black communities. There is no place in America today that has not been indelibly stained with the plight of chemically manufactured and highly addictive drugs. And I don't know why acknowledging this sad reality is somehow considered "right wing conservative propaganda."


Selam

It isn't. 
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« Reply #105 on: May 29, 2013, 07:27:31 AM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

The fact that an addict, hell even most addicts, who's addiction is, say, heroin or crack, first used pot or ritalin does not make it a "gateway drug."  The concept is foolish.  Rather, it is more likely that the situation is as follows: someone who is willing to take the risks of using heroin or crack (legal and health risks) is much more likely to be willing to use pot or prescription drugs, without a prescription, than is someone who would never use heroin or crack.  That doesn't mean that using pot leads one to use heroin, but rather that a person who is likely to use heroin is also likely to use pot; I would be extremely surprised if you could turn up any evidence that the use of marijuana increases the likelihood of heroin or crack use.
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« Reply #106 on: May 29, 2013, 09:04:33 AM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

The fact that an addict, hell even most addicts, who's addiction is, say, heroin or crack, first used pot or ritalin does not make it a "gateway drug."  

 Roll Eyes

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« Reply #107 on: May 29, 2013, 09:34:40 AM »

Quote
The fact that an addict, hell even most addicts, who's addiction is, say, heroin or crack, first used pot or ritalin does not make it a "gateway drug." 
So making out is not, nor should it be considered to be, a prelude to sex?
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« Reply #108 on: May 29, 2013, 09:55:31 AM »

police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.

Thank God....a voice of reason...and someone who knows what he is talking about.

Not really.

It's just another non-thinking petty white man bourgeois fantasy propagated under thin guise of Christianity. I would be afraid if someone like him took some sort of power to start a nutty cultural hegemony.

I don't like drug dealers either, but you have to be kidding yourself if you truly believe it has anything to do with lack of respect and belief in God. What utter nonsense. These middle class sensibilities bore me.

And really, all drugs destroy society? Get real. Folks who smoke a bowl after work because it relaxes them or whatever are okay in my book.

It's too bad we live in a screwed up world where the alternative to not working for the institutions is being a drug addict or unemployed. Maybe get into porn which you can be screwed for 800 dollars a shoot versus getting screwed at a McJob for 8.50 an hr.

Might want to fix the alternative before you approach the drugs. Or lay off whatever crack you smoked out of a Glenn Beck book when you wrote your post.

 This was probably one of the most hateful, angry attacks on a person that I've seen on this forum. 
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« Reply #109 on: May 29, 2013, 10:11:23 AM »

I think I quoted the wrong person with that post. Didn't have time to edit it.

To whoever you are ignore it

Edit: wait this ain't in Politics? My bad, didn't know this was the public board.
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« Reply #110 on: May 29, 2013, 10:36:18 AM »

Addiction is far more complicated than 'learning' and 'unlearning.'  That's why counseling usually does not work with true cases of addiction, whereas someone who is in physical dependency can often use counseling to get through the withdrawals until the body heals and the cravings subside.

Well, addiction is a learned behavior. They offer addiction counseling and treatment programs ... Are you aware of something called drug-induced psychosis?..

It CAN be a learned behavior, but not usually.
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« Reply #111 on: May 29, 2013, 11:27:56 AM »

I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left. 

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.
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« Reply #112 on: May 29, 2013, 11:31:42 AM »

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« Reply #113 on: May 29, 2013, 11:32:47 AM »

That's why they are miserable: they don't have what we all need.

I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left. 

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.

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« Reply #114 on: May 29, 2013, 11:34:02 AM »

Addiction is far more complicated than 'learning' and 'unlearning.'  That's why counseling usually does not work with true cases of addiction, whereas someone who is in physical dependency can often use counseling to get through the withdrawals until the body heals and the cravings subside.

Well, addiction is a learned behavior. They offer addiction counseling and treatment programs ... Are you aware of something called drug-induced psychosis?..

It CAN be a learned behavior, but not usually.


Addiction counseling is the initial phase for starting drug rehab. 
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« Reply #115 on: May 29, 2013, 11:49:00 AM »

That depends on the rehab program.  There are some programs that require an addict have 30 days sober before starting counseling.  So, the process is initiated before any 'professional' counseling is undertaken.

That gets into the whole topic of counseling as a profession versus a non-professional 'sponsor' who does a type of counseling.

I don't know of any counselors that would advocate counseling as a stand-alone process for recovery from addiction, which is what I was pointing to in my previous post.  The most successful programs, based on the 12 Steps, are spiritual in nature, whereas professional counseling training is not spiritual in nature (though some can add flavors to it).



Addiction is far more complicated than 'learning' and 'unlearning.'  That's why counseling usually does not work with true cases of addiction, whereas someone who is in physical dependency can often use counseling to get through the withdrawals until the body heals and the cravings subside.

Well, addiction is a learned behavior. They offer addiction counseling and treatment programs ... Are you aware of something called drug-induced psychosis?..

It CAN be a learned behavior, but not usually.


Addiction counseling is the initial phase for starting drug rehab. 
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« Reply #116 on: May 29, 2013, 12:05:26 PM »

I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left. 

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.


Best answer.
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« Reply #117 on: May 29, 2013, 12:42:07 PM »


I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left.  

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.
Quote


think about this next time you reach for that straw or whatever you use. but seriously this is such a platitude.

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« Reply #118 on: May 29, 2013, 02:06:16 PM »


I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left.  

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.
Quote


think about this next time you reach for that straw or whatever you use. but seriously this is such a platitude.


Pointing out a truth is trite, meaningless, banal?  Wow!  Interesting.....

Do you think that people do not need Christ??  Or that they do need drugs?

Or is it that the way Maria expressed it just doesn't measure up to your standards?  <yawn>
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« Reply #119 on: May 29, 2013, 02:11:06 PM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

You really don't understand sampling bias . . .

I was a "hardcore" addict and I knew tons of people who did every drug under the sun socially and "responsibly". Smoking crack could always kills you due to some underlying medical conditions, but no, not even crack is a gateway drug or gets people strung out by using it socially.

I've exhaled more drugs than you have ever seen.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 02:11:31 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #120 on: May 29, 2013, 02:12:04 PM »

People do not need drugs; they need Christ.

People need Christ but they might enjoy occasional drugs too. I like my coffee.
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« Reply #121 on: May 29, 2013, 02:12:09 PM »

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The fact that an addict, hell even most addicts, who's addiction is, say, heroin or crack, first used pot or ritalin does not make it a "gateway drug." 
So making out is not, nor should it be considered to be, a prelude to sex?

Milk is a gateway drug.
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« Reply #122 on: May 29, 2013, 02:23:48 PM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

You really don't understand sampling bias . . .

I was a "hardcore" addict and I knew tons of people who did every drug under the sun socially and "responsibly". Smoking crack could always kills you due to some underlying medical conditions, but no, not even crack is a gateway drug or gets people strung out by using it socially.

I've exhaled more drugs than you have ever seen.

Sorry you had to go through that...however, I don't understand the necessity to do drugs "socially".

I'm not picking a fight...I simply cannot understand how anyone can justify social drug use. 

We've been told above that it's not for fun, but, escape.

We've also been told above that it's not due to some lack of knowledge of God.

However, if one knows God, one always has hope, no matter how bad things get...therefore, why the need to "escape"?



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« Reply #123 on: May 29, 2013, 02:40:33 PM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

You really don't understand sampling bias . . .

I was a "hardcore" addict and I knew tons of people who did every drug under the sun socially and "responsibly". Smoking crack could always kills you due to some underlying medical conditions, but no, not even crack is a gateway drug or gets people strung out by using it socially.

I've exhaled more drugs than you have ever seen.

Sorry you had to go through that...however, I don't understand the necessity to do drugs "socially".

I'm not picking a fight...I simply cannot understand how anyone can justify social drug use.  

We've been told above that it's not for fun, but, escape.

We've also been told above that it's not due to some lack of knowledge of God.

However, if one knows God, one always has hope, no matter how bad things get...therefore, why the need to "escape"?

What's not a drug?

I am not condoning anything, I am just saying let's avoid reefer madness.

As I told JamesR, he shouldn't do most "drugs". The relative good that comes from doesn't offset the suffering IME.

It would be a better world if people didn't binge drink, smoke unhealthly, eat too much (this is what kills more people than most in this country, not liquor or cigarettes), etc.

But I have to say I knew people, many who occasionally used "drugs" for recreation.

I don't understand it. As it was my life, nevertheless they exist.

In my world, the distribution of certain amounts of substances would come with heavy punishment, while the consumption would not. And if someone were shown to be truly addicted that would go to mitigate their punishment in various crimes they committed in the act of being sick.

And I would extend this to food, entertainment, internet use, etc.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 02:40:55 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #124 on: May 30, 2013, 12:03:08 AM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

You really don't understand sampling bias . . .

I was a "hardcore" addict and I knew tons of people who did every drug under the sun socially and "responsibly". Smoking crack could always kills you due to some underlying medical conditions, but no, not even crack is a gateway drug or gets people strung out by using it socially.

I've exhaled more drugs than you have ever seen.

Sorry you had to go through that...however, I don't understand the necessity to do drugs "socially".

I'm not picking a fight...I simply cannot understand how anyone can justify social drug use. 

We've been told above that it's not for fun, but, escape.

We've also been told above that it's not due to some lack of knowledge of God.

However, if one knows God, one always has hope, no matter how bad things get...therefore, why the need to "escape"?




He is one person, I've talked to hundreds and he talks about a sampling bias.  But I am glad he is doing better.
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