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Author Topic: Home grown meth is destroying Americans  (Read 2051 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: May 26, 2013, 01:21:01 PM »

I didn't think it was coke that ruined your teeth, I thought it was usually meth that did that??

Don't believe the hype!

Really, how does "meth" ruin anyone's teeth?

It doesn't. You have an entire generation raised on it by now. I am sure their teeth are fine.

Now, being strung out on any drug, especially those whose fumes are inhaled and likely includes all sortsa adulterants ain't great.

And grinding your teeth for 5 years straight, probably ain't so great either. But hey, if you ever have to get to Chicago in a weekend, hard to a find a cheaper mode of transportation than walking while tweeking.

We have stinking, fuming, exploding meth labs all over the foothills where I live.
Those scum who are manufacturing meth are even being paid for their home grown meth by Muslims extremists who are waging war against Americans by engaging in this drug war against us.

The meth fumes cause a lot of people to have respiratory distress. It is time the filthy truth gets out about Meth. It is destroying a lot of lives.
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2013, 02:01:59 PM »

Interesting. Cocaine is sort of the cash-crop drug where I live.
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 02:03:41 PM »

I don't know about the Muslim bit, but we have a meth problem where I live and the surrounding areas too - only second to prescription drug abuse (worst county in Ohio for prescription drug abuse, and one of the worst in the county AFAIK, sadly).

I also don't know about the connection between meth abuse and teeth decay, but most meth addicts tend to lose their teeth. I know of a couple people that ruined their teeth in their late teens during hardcore meth addiction, and now use dentures or have screwed up teeth.
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2013, 02:30:38 PM »

I didn't think it was coke that ruined your teeth, I thought it was usually meth that did that??

Don't believe the hype!

Really, how does "meth" ruin anyone's teeth?

It doesn't. You have an entire generation raised on it by now. I am sure their teeth are fine.

Now, being strung out on any drug, especially those whose fumes are inhaled and likely includes all sortsa adulterants ain't great.

And grinding your teeth for 5 years straight, probably ain't so great either. But hey, if you ever have to get to Chicago in a weekend, hard to a find a cheaper mode of transportation than walking while tweeking.

We have stinking, fuming, exploding meth labs all over the foothills where I live.
Those scum who are manufacturing meth are even being paid for their home grown meth by Muslims extremists who are waging war against Americans by engaging in this drug war against us.

The meth fumes cause a lot of people to have respiratory distress. It is time the filthy truth gets out about Meth. It is destroying a lot of lives.

You obviously know nothing about "meth", who does most of the manufacturing here in the US, how that has changed over the last 50 years or so, or pretty much anything.

Enjoy. Muslims. Awesome.

I've been in more than a few homemade crank places and a huge facility that was the size a moderate scale factory.

The latter is the method of production which is exploding.

Was never a speed freak myself, so I've done meth only a few times (here I am talking about what you think is meth, glass, whathaveyou.) But many people have lead pretty successful and productive lives in history strung out on it.

You do realize that a lot of kids take it every morning as prescribed by their doctor?
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2013, 02:34:18 PM »

I don't know about the Muslim bit, but we have a meth problem where I live and the surrounding areas too - only second to prescription drug abuse (worst county in Ohio for prescription drug abuse, and one of the worst in the county AFAIK, sadly).

I also don't know about the connection between meth abuse and teeth decay, but most meth addicts tend to lose their teeth. I know of a couple people that ruined their teeth in their late teens during hardcore meth addiction, and now use dentures or have screwed up teeth.

Nephi what county? I've certainly been in it.

I know people who used meth for most of their life with perfect dental health. Ever seen the mouth of a junkie? Crack head?

It ain't great.

When folks are tweaking hard on glass or whatever, sure the fumes are issue, but you have basic hygienic issues at play and the teeth grinding which is incredible. Having only smoked it a few time (less than a dozen) it is rather incredible.

Taking it in pill form mitigates a lot of the above.
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2013, 02:35:33 PM »

Interesting. Cocaine is sort of the cash-crop drug where I live.

No it ain't.

Cocaine ain't grown here. Stop please.
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2013, 02:35:53 PM »

Oh America, just legalise marijuana and be done with it. At least there are no exploding drug labs where I live.
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2013, 02:37:30 PM »

Is it bad that when I think of a meth factory, I cannot shake the image of a couple of not-too-bright rednecks in a run down RV getting blown to bits?
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2013, 02:38:39 PM »

Nephi what county? I've certainly been in it.

Scioto County. It also apparently has the highest rate in Ohio of prescription drug deaths from overdosing, according to the headlines of the recent paper.
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2013, 02:40:52 PM »

Interesting. Cocaine is sort of the cash-crop drug where I live.

No it ain't.

Cocaine ain't grown here. Stop please.

And since the relationship between coke and heroin are pretty tight, I would say mexican tar is killing whatever coke is being brought through Mexico to here.

A by product of the war in Afganistan. Heroin shot up through the roof in price. Coke dropped.

Mexicans cultivated the poppy and in a few later, you have heroin at all time lows. Which is good for violent crime. When the drug on the street is coke, violent crime soars, when it is heroin, it drops.

Having to escort a drug addict or two or a dozen out of my house, junkies are so much easier to deal with.
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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2013, 02:41:25 PM »

Is it bad that when I think of a meth factory, I cannot shake the image of a couple of not-too-bright rednecks in a run down RV getting blown to bits?

Sorry holmes, the Esses have that on lock down now.
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« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2013, 02:41:40 PM »

Oh America, just legalise marijuana and be done with it. At least there are no exploding drug labs where I live.

I second this

If everyone were smoking marijuana, then we wouldn't have to worry about exploding meth factories because they'd be too stoned to build one.

How about Ectasy? Do you care to weigh in on this one Jason? This one in particular has interested me from time to time.
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« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2013, 02:43:10 PM »

Heroin shot up

Pun intended or not intended?
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« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2013, 02:44:14 PM »

Nephi what county? I've certainly been in it.

Scioto County. It also apparently has the highest rate in Ohio of prescription drug deaths from overdosing, according to the headlines of the recent paper.

I wasn't sure if you were going to say Adams or Scioto. There is some really scandalous stuff going on in that area and right across the river.

Watch for KY to start getting heat from the feds for their "diet" centers which basically places you show up get weighed in and get a script for speed for three months.
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« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2013, 02:49:18 PM »

How about Ectasy? Do you care to weigh in on this one Jason? This one in particular has interested me from time to time.

Much like LSD most people ain't get real X or they are getting really adulterated stuff. X, a lot of time is just some speed of some sort. That is all.

I was doing X before it became so popular, so it wasn't a big deal to get decent stuff. Once it became the club drug of choice, that changed the game. Nothing that great. Dropped it a few times. Not my thing.

Of all the drugs I would council folks never to do, it would be all the psychotropics. Really Hollywood aside, one bad experience with the stuff can open up stuff in your brain you don't want to have to deal with for years later.
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« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2013, 02:52:40 PM »

Oh America, just legalise marijuana and be done with it. At least there are no exploding drug labs where I live.

I second this

If everyone were smoking marijuana, then we wouldn't have to worry about exploding meth factories because they'd be too stoned to build one.

How about Ectasy? Do you care to weigh in on this one Jason? This one in particular has interested me from time to time.

Pot is a more significant drug than people make it out to be. And sorry Cyrillic, you ain't never seen pot. What passes for weed in Europe, including your beloved Amsterdam doesn't hold a candle to what I can get from some kid in KY who is a hobbiest pot grower.

Not saying it should be illegal, but I've seen plenty of people who have more than a mild problem with the stuff.

Again, not my thing.
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« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2013, 02:55:22 PM »

I wasn't sure if you were going to say Adams or Scioto. There is some really scandalous stuff going on in that area and right across the river.

Watch for KY to start getting heat from the feds for their "diet" centers which basically places you show up get weighed in and get a script for speed for three months.

In Scioto, we've had most of our pill mills (i.e. clinics that would sell prescriptions) shut down due to the state finally getting involved. Now most of the drugs come from Michigan or Florida.

One of those diet centers in Greenup County is right along the highway (23). I've known people to do that too, but it's far less common.

Interestingly my area is evidence against legalization completely solving the drug-crime problem, because here I'm not afraid of the dealers. It's the drug-desperate junkie that has no money I'm threatened by, regardless of whether they can fill their fix at a neighbor's house or at Walmart.
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« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2013, 02:58:07 PM »

Just occassional marijuana once in a while.  Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2013, 03:01:34 PM »

I wasn't sure if you were going to say Adams or Scioto. There is some really scandalous stuff going on in that area and right across the river.

Watch for KY to start getting heat from the feds for their "diet" centers which basically places you show up get weighed in and get a script for speed for three months.

In Scioto, we've had most of our pill mills (i.e. clinics that would sell prescriptions) shut down due to the state finally getting involved. Now most of the drugs come from Michigan or Florida.

One of those diet centers in Greenup County is right along the highway (23). I've known people to do that too, but it's far less common.

Interestingly my area is evidence against legalization completely solving the drug-crime problem, because here I'm not afraid of the dealers. It's the drug-desperate junkie that has no money I'm threatened by, regardless of whether they can fill their fix at a neighbor's house or at Walmart.

I have a buddy who has a farm up that way, so I've heard about the stuff being shut down.

In theory, decriminalizing drug abuse (not necessarily dealing) and treating it like the health problem it is would go a long way to mitigate the "dangerous" addict.

I dunno. It is much more complicated than any on either side make it out to be. One thing I know, is that these folks don't belong in the State facilities they find themselves in.
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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2013, 03:06:31 PM »

because here I'm not afraid of the dealers. It's the drug-desperate junkie that has no money I'm threatened by, regardless of whether they can fill their fix at a neighbor's house or at Walmart.

Oh, this points out the one size fits all thing doesn't work.

In the city, everyone in the game sucks.

In the country, you might not think the dealer ain't a problem, and he likely ain't, till you get on his radar or he branches out.

I grew up in the hood and then in the sticks. Not far from my backyard was a guy running crank, whores, guns, etc. for the Hell's Angels. It was a bit of a problem, especially if you got on their radar.

A kid I went to school with had an uncle tortured to death (they found his testicles in his stomach) in an abandoned van. He was a pilot and the theory of those involved was that he used to run for the Angel's to make their connect in CA / SA and he decided he wanted out.

He wasn't into them.
He wasn't snitching.
He just wanted to stop.

So he had body parts cut off, was burned, cut, etc. Over the course of 12-14 hours.
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« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2013, 03:18:08 PM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.
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« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2013, 03:20:37 PM »

Oh, this points out the one size fits all thing doesn't work.

In the city, everyone in the game sucks.

In the country, you might not think the dealer ain't a problem, and he likely ain't, till you get on his radar or he branches out.

I grew up in the hood and then in the sticks. Not far from my backyard was a guy running crank, whores, guns, etc. for the Hell's Angels. It was a bit of a problem, especially if you got on their radar.

A kid I went to school with had an uncle tortured to death (they found his testicles in his stomach) in an abandoned van. He was a pilot and the theory of those involved was that he used to run for the Angel's to make their connect in CA / SA and he decided he wanted out.

He wasn't into them.
He wasn't snitching.
He just wanted to stop.

So he had body parts cut off, was burned, cut, etc. Over the course of 12-14 hours.

You're right. There is no universal drug environment. Here, I think it's because prescription drugs are so spread out amongst so many people. You can have a grandmother selling prescription drugs out of her retirement home. So it's less likely to get centralized into violent gangs. Meth is like this too, with people (i.e. families) just making it in their own homes.

It seems the closer one gets to Huntington you see more of those sorts of gangs pop up. I know of someone indirectly who was murdered by a paranoid gang leader who thought he would get snitched on. There's even a tv show episode on it. Although there are gangs here in Scioto too, but generally they come out of Cleveland or Detroit and are bringing heroin and cocaine into the area.
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« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2013, 03:20:55 PM »

I for one have never done drugs...except for that time I accidently ate all of my grandmother's pills as a child and had to get my stomach pumped because I thought they were candy.
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« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2013, 03:24:07 PM »

I for one have never done drugs...except for that time I accidently ate all of my grandmother's pills as a child and had to get my stomach pumped because I thought they were candy.

Good. Keep it that way.
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« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2013, 03:25:24 PM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.

Everybody doesn't.

Tell that to my buddy. His uncle's story was on America's most wanted.
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« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2013, 04:57:09 PM »

I for one have never done drugs...except for that time I accidently ate all of my grandmother's pills as a child and had to get my stomach pumped because I thought they were candy.

Good. Keep it that way.

How come? You just admitted to it and you seem like a cool guy.
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« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2013, 05:09:58 PM »

Pot is a more significant drug than people make it out to be. And sorry Cyrillic, you ain't never seen pot. What passes for weed in Europe, including your beloved Amsterdam doesn't hold a candle to what I can get from some kid in KY who is a hobbiest pot grower.

That's one of the points of legalization. More room for milder options.
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2013, 06:24:43 PM »

Pot is a more significant drug than people make it out to be. And sorry Cyrillic, you ain't never seen pot. What passes for weed in Europe, including your beloved Amsterdam doesn't hold a candle to what I can get from some kid in KY who is a hobbiest pot grower.

That's one of the points of legalization. More room for milder options.

Except you have "prescription pot" now and we get a lot of it coming this way to be sold illegally. It ain't mild by a long shot.

Americans due to the drug war have long grown accustomed to pot that looks like a sentient being from another universe.
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« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2013, 06:28:03 PM »

I for one have never done drugs...except for that time I accidently ate all of my grandmother's pills as a child and had to get my stomach pumped because I thought they were candy.

Good. Keep it that way.

How come? You just admitted to it and you seem like a cool guy.

Drugs suck for the most part and liquor if you can drink a few gallons of it a day. But sometimes you have to go through hell to figure that out.

Well adjusted folks could probably use drugs moderately and responsibly, the thing is most well adjusted folks don't want to get jacked on coke, crank, etc.

Catch-22.

You ain't well-adjusted. Don't do drugs.
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« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2013, 08:51:22 PM »

There are lots of things you can do to feel good, which don't involve shooting up, getting arrested or any of the other crap that comes with serious drugs. I can't judge others but it just seems like a waste of time. Go ride a bike.
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« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2013, 09:38:03 PM »

Addictive tendencies are pretty common in my family...dad was addicted to drugs, paternal grandfather an ex-alcoholic and addicted to Vicodin, maternal grandmother an alcoholic, aunt a meth addict, other aunt an alcoholic, and another aunt a heroin addict. And I'm addicted to masturbation.
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« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2013, 09:41:21 PM »

Who doesn't have an addiction?
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« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2013, 09:50:09 PM »

Who doesn't have an addiction?

<----------------- addicted to pizza rolls and orzo with lemon and feta.......not together mind you.
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« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2013, 09:50:32 PM »

Who doesn't have an addiction?

<----------------- addicted to pizza rolls and orzo with lemon and feta.......not together mind you.
What kind of pizza rolls?
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« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2013, 09:52:03 PM »

All of the drugs mentioned are destroying this country regardless of the lies people spread.  If I were looking at drug use, Meth is one of the last places I would visit.  If people knew half the crap put into the production of drugs they would never start.  Ignorance is rampant.  But don't take my word for it, ask the snow bugs.
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« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2013, 09:52:42 PM »

Who doesn't have an addiction?
Lots of people.
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« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2013, 09:54:33 PM »

I for one have never done drugs...except for that time I accidently ate all of my grandmother's pills as a child and had to get my stomach pumped because I thought they were candy.

Good. Keep it that way.

How come? You just admitted to it and you seem like a cool guy.
Maybe you missed the part where he almost died.
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« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2013, 10:52:38 PM »

Who doesn't have an addiction?
Lots of people.
You're right, I am throwing that word around too loosely here and undervaluing real addictions.
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« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2013, 11:20:34 PM »

And I'm addicted to masturbation.

Nonsense.
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« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2013, 12:30:20 AM »

Oh America, just legalise marijuana and be done with it. At least there are no exploding drug labs where I live.

I may or may not know five people in a small town who make meth...and if I do, I can guarantee you that none of their production sites have ever exploded.
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« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2013, 12:33:09 AM »

Americans due to the drug war have long grown accustomed to pot that looks like a sentient being from another universe.

So the situation is basically like back in the good old days of alcohol prohibition.
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« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2013, 12:59:45 AM »

Oh America, just legalise marijuana and be done with it. At least there are no exploding drug labs where I live.

I may or may not know five people in a small town who make meth...and if I do, I can guarantee you that none of their production sites have ever exploded.

I know people who were test pilots on brand new planes.  Just because they didn't crash and burn doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  You really shouldn’t demoralize the dangers.  It happens more often than you think.  And if you know they are doing this and say nothing, you just became an accomplice to a crime.  Congratulations.  And let’s not forget several of these scumbag meatballs booby trap their labs to kill people when they come in. Besides, they don't have to explode to be extremely dangerous.  These sites are considered HazMat and a special team has to dispose of them properly.  Any residence which ever had a Meth lab MUST have this information revealed prior to any future purchase, because of the dangers.  The majority of Meth is made within the nations borders.  Ever hear of Meth Alley?  Folks in MO have.
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« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2013, 01:03:20 AM »

Oh America, just legalise marijuana and be done with it. At least there are no exploding drug labs where I live.

I may or may not know five people in a small town who make meth...and if I do, I can guarantee you that none of their production sites have ever exploded.

I know people who were test pilots on brand new planes.  Just because they didn't crash and burn doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  You really shouldn’t demoralized the dangers.  It happens more often than you think.  And if you know they are doing this and say nothing, you just became an accomplice to a crime.  Congratulations.  And lets not forget several of these scumbag meatballs booby trap their labs to kill people when they come in.  Real nice folks you keep company with.

He might hang with winebibbers as well.

Really bathtub meth ain't making up much of the market share anymore.

Large scale production run by cartels within our borders is how I understand you getting most of the supply now.

But that won't stop some idiot from trying to do it at home. Really, if they just did a little reading it would make the whole thing a lot safer.

And the former moonshiners still are in it as well, but again, market share ain't what it used to be. At least we haven't outsourced these jobs yet.
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« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2013, 01:23:27 AM »

All of orthonorm's testimonials are giving me a pre-conversion high.
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« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2013, 01:43:03 AM »

A meth house adjacent to a community college exploded while I was teaching. I was sick for two week with dizziness and bronchial asthma from all the toxic fumes generated in that explosion.

We have had at least two meth houses explode only a block away from my house. The police tapped the roads off and we had to take a detour. We have also heard explosions coming from the valley.

Both the LAFP and LAPD have informed us that there are a lot of home grown meth labs in the foothills where we live, and that if we smell any fumes to let them know as it means that a house may explode.

On the news recently, there was a house for sale, cheap.
A couple bought the house through the VA, did not ask for a meth inspection.
They got a real lemon. It made them very ill. They could not get a refund. It was a total loss.
An inspection revealed that the house was unsafe as it was filled with dangerous toxic levels of meth chemicals. The house had to be torn down, leveled, and the area detoxified.
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« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2013, 03:07:00 AM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.

Too much HBO, which may be more detrimentally mind-altering than THC or LSD.


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« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2013, 05:27:54 AM »

Oh America, just legalise marijuana and be done with it. At least there are no exploding drug labs where I live.

I may or may not know five people in a small town who make meth...and if I do, I can guarantee you that none of their production sites have ever exploded.

I know people who were test pilots on brand new planes.  Just because they didn't crash and burn doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  You really shouldn’t demoralized the dangers.  It happens more often than you think.  And if you know they are doing this and say nothing, you just became an accomplice to a crime.  Congratulations.  And lets not forget several of these scumbag meatballs booby trap their labs to kill people when they come in.  Real nice folks you keep company with.

He might hang with winebibbers as well.

Oh I do.  I also hang out with a couple of porn stars.  And a man who may or may not be a pimp.  And an Armenian.  I hang out with an Armenian too.  But I think that might be one step too far, so I'm considering ending that friendship.
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« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2013, 06:35:14 AM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.
Because drugs don't take you to pretty places.
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« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2013, 06:37:17 AM »

I for one have never done drugs...except for that time I accidently ate all of my grandmother's pills as a child and had to get my stomach pumped because I thought they were candy.

Alcohol is drugs too.
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« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2013, 06:42:39 AM »

Pot is a more significant drug than people make it out to be. And sorry Cyrillic, you ain't never seen pot. What passes for weed in Europe, including your beloved Amsterdam doesn't hold a candle to what I can get from some kid in KY who is a hobbiest pot grower.

Oh really? That most be quite an accomplished grower.
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« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2013, 06:52:53 AM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.

Pretty much this.
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« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2013, 10:22:20 AM »

I was sick for two week with dizziness and bronchial asthma from all the toxic fumes generated in that explosion.

Do you possibly weigh less than one hundred pounds or more than 500? I've never heard if such frailty.
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« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2013, 12:53:39 PM »

Who doesn't have an addiction?

<----------------- addicted to pizza rolls and orzo with lemon and feta.......not together mind you.

The DEA is on its way right now.
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« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2013, 12:58:53 PM »

Quote
The meth fumes cause a lot of people to have respiratory distress. It is time the filthy truth gets out about Meth. It is destroying a lot of lives.

Could say the same about alcohol. I know several people that have been consistently drunk for 20-50 years, non stop. You wanna get up at 6 every day, stay home all day and start getting drunk at 9am? Become an accountant.
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« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2013, 03:15:00 PM »

hail satan, smoke meth
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« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2013, 08:38:40 PM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.
Because drugs don't take you to pretty places.
That depends on who decorated the emergency room.
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« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2013, 08:39:31 PM »

Who doesn't have an addiction?

<----------------- addicted to pizza rolls and orzo with lemon and feta.......not together mind you.

The DEA is on its way right now.
It's the FDA. Cheesy
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« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2013, 10:09:23 PM »

Quote
The meth fumes cause a lot of people to have respiratory distress. It is time the filthy truth gets out about Meth. It is destroying a lot of lives.

Could say the same about alcohol. I know several people that have been consistently drunk for 20-50 years, non stop. You wanna get up at 6 every day, stay home all day and start getting drunk at 9am? Become an accountant.
I dont understand the comparison between the toxic fumes of meth labs and being a drunk.  The addiction I understand.
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« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2013, 08:34:04 AM »

 police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.
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« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2013, 09:06:11 AM »

The most abused and in my opinion the hardest drugs to quit are alcohol and tobacco.  Alcohol has probably destroyed more lives than any other drug.
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« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2013, 10:48:38 AM »

The most abused and in my opinion the hardest drugs to quit are alcohol and tobacco.  Alcohol has probably destroyed more lives than any other drug.

Maybe elsewhere, but certainly not in my community.
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« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2013, 11:00:11 AM »

Absolutely!

Most of us live completely unaware of the horrors of modern drugs.  If there is one challenge that all of the territorial Orthodox Churches face together, it is dealing with drugs and addiction.  It is sad to say, but alcohol has now become one of the easier addictions to treat.  Its effects are less powerful and the damage takes much longer.

I remember watching a coke addict 'hit the wall' and become high as a kite just from having a craving.  No alcoholic ever gets drunk without a drink.  Most people out there don't understand this.

Thank you for being out there and ministering as you do, Jayjay!


police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.
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« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2013, 11:22:27 AM »

How about Ectasy? ....This one in particular has interested me from time to time.

Most Ecstasy comes from Israel:
Quote
Israel is at the center of international trade in the drug ecstasy, according to a document published last week by the U.S. State Department.

In recent years, organized crime in Israel, some with links to criminal organizations in Russia, have come to control the distribution of the drug in Europe, according to a Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs document.

The same document also points out that Israeli criminal groups have a hand in the distribution of ecstasy in North America...

 "Israeli drug distribution organizations are currently the main source for distribution of the drug to groups inside the U.S., to smuggling through express mail services, through couriers on commercial flights and, recently, through air cargo," states the report.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israelis-at-center-of-ecstasy-drug-trade-1.13809
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« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2013, 01:14:53 PM »

police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.

Thanks for posting.
Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2013, 01:18:53 PM »

The most abused and in my opinion the hardest drugs to quit are alcohol and tobacco.  Alcohol has probably destroyed more lives than any other drug.

Alcohol and tobacco often lead to other addictions. Marijuana and Ritalin are often gateways to other drug addictions. I have met many who have claimed to have just an alcohol addiction but who also are forced to admit that they have an addiction to marijuana and cocaine once they start detox.

BTW, How many here have visited patients while they are in detox? It is not a pretty sight.
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« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2013, 01:25:04 PM »

BTW, How many here have visited patients while they are in detox?

*raises hand*

lol, when my dad was detoxing, one of his withdrawal symptoms was that he constantly got sleep paralysis and would wake up constantly in the middle of the night screaming for one of us, saying he can't move.
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« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2013, 01:27:05 PM »

I have. I've also had to go running around at night trying to find a friend who had relapsed on his crack habit and get a hold of him before he got lost in a crackhouse.

Watch "Intervention." They won't be making new episodes, but it's on U.S. TV and you can probably rent the DVDs elsewhere. It's not a comedy.
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« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2013, 01:54:56 PM »

hail satan, smoke meth

Huh
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« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2013, 01:55:38 PM »

I have. I've also had to go running around at night trying to find a friend who had relapsed on his crack habit and get a hold of him before he got lost in a crackhouse.

Watch "Intervention." They won't be making new episodes, but it's on U.S. TV and you can probably rent the DVDs elsewhere. It's not a comedy.

I took some drug-alcohol classes while in college, and was trained to do interventions.

Out of three interventions that I participated in with friends and relatives, only one patient successfully went through a 30 day inpatient program. The others remained in denial.

We visited this patient while he was in detox. He was in the ICU as he was vomiting and was suffering convulsions, and staff feared that he would suffocate on his vomit. Furthermore, he was scratching his skin as he itched, and had to be restrained. He also had delusions and nightmares.
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« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2013, 01:56:04 PM »

police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.

Thank God....a voice of reason...and someone who knows what he is talking about.
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« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2013, 02:04:41 PM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.

Pretty much this.

Not everybody.  The only time I had a "buzz" was when I was in the hospital with kidney stones.  I got both demerol and dilaudid injections.  The first shot was heavenly because I could finally breath.  The pain was still there, but, it was bearable.

I have to say that was the ONLY thing I liked about it....that the pain subsided to a dull roar.  I didn't like the fuzzy fealing, I didn't like the dizziness, I didn't like the whole experience.

The nurse kept coming in like clockwork to give me these shots....until I finally told her NO!!!  No more!!!!  I'll take the pain.  She was shocked.  She stated that she's already measured it out....like that would make a difference to me....and that now it's my fault that it will go to waste, and I should just let her inject me...since it's already in the syringe.  No.  No more.

She walked away shaking her head.

...and I've also never been drunk.

I could never understand the whole hype around getting drunk.  Seems so stupid.  If you have to be drunk to have fun, are you actually really having any fun?

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« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2013, 02:16:46 PM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.

Pretty much this.

Not everybody.  The only time I had a "buzz" was when I was in the hospital with kidney stones.  I got both demerol and dilaudid injections.  The first shot was heavenly because I could finally breath.  The pain was still there, but, it was bearable.

I have to say that was the ONLY thing I liked about it....that the pain subsided to a dull roar.  I didn't like the fuzzy fealing, I didn't like the dizziness, I didn't like the whole experience.

The nurse kept coming in like clockwork to give me these shots....until I finally told her NO!!!  No more!!!!  I'll take the pain.  She was shocked.  She stated that she's already measured it out....like that would make a difference to me....and that now it's my fault that it will go to waste, and I should just let her inject me...since it's already in the syringe.  No.  No more.

She walked away shaking her head.

...and I've also never been drunk.

I could never understand the whole hype around getting drunk.  Seems so stupid.  If you have to be drunk to have fun, are you actually really having any fun?



Some folks have a very strange notion of what fun is.   Every time (and it was more than a few) I ever got drunk or used, with great frequency,  a whole host of other drugs it was, all my excuses and rationalizations aside, nothing more than a way to dull pain and try to escape the reality of my life and the consequences of my other bad choices.  And yeah...sometimes I even thought I was having what I thought could be defined as "fun"--but it wasn't--especially as the effects started to wear off.
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« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2013, 02:17:32 PM »

Who doesn't have an addiction?

Its a wonderful thing to be free from all addictions.
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« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2013, 02:19:49 PM »

Everybody may be 'really into' different things, from baseball to origami to actual hard drugs. But I think we'd be pushing it if we said there is no difference between having a big hobby, like butterfly collection, and shooting up heroin. I mean, come on, now.
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« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2013, 02:24:44 PM »

Quote
The meth fumes cause a lot of people to have respiratory distress. It is time the filthy truth gets out about Meth. It is destroying a lot of lives.

Could say the same about alcohol. I know several people that have been consistently drunk for 20-50 years, non stop. You wanna get up at 6 every day, stay home all day and start getting drunk at 9am? Become an accountant.
I dont understand the comparison between the toxic fumes of meth labs and being a drunk.  The addiction I understand.

The response is to "It is destroying a lot of lives."
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« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2013, 02:31:01 PM »

The most abused and in my opinion the hardest drugs to quit are alcohol and tobacco.  Alcohol has probably destroyed more lives than any other drug.

What about caffeine?..
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« Reply #76 on: May 28, 2013, 04:23:35 PM »


Caffeine hardly has the same side effects as alcohol.  Having jitters isn't going to cause you to swerve your car into oncoming traffic....nor, are you likely to beat your family when you've downed a pot of coffee.
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« Reply #77 on: May 28, 2013, 04:50:27 PM »

Well, addiction is a learned behavior. They offer addiction counseling and treatment programs ... Are you aware of something called drug-induced psychosis?..
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« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2013, 05:10:34 PM »


Definitely not my area of expertise.
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« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2013, 05:21:29 PM »

I think you can a get drug-induced psychotic episode from marijuana.
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« Reply #80 on: May 28, 2013, 05:23:34 PM »


Caffeine hardly has the same side effects as alcohol.  Having jitters isn't going to cause you to swerve your car into oncoming traffic....nor, are you likely to beat your family when you've downed a pot of coffee.


If you are drinking coffee to stay awake and are tired you are worse than a drunk driver.

Here's the Mythbusters: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/about-this-show/tired-vs-drunk-driving.htm
Here's another article.  His report for the State of Massachusetts is linked in the article: http://www.thesafetyinstitute.org/worse-than-driving-drunk/

And alcohol reduces inhibitions.  If someone beats their family while drunk they probably already had the intent, just could bring themselves to do it.  Typically, when I am drinking, beating my family and friends isn't on the agenda.  Just like when I am sober.
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« Reply #81 on: May 28, 2013, 05:38:38 PM »


Drinking is okay...but, you shouldn't be getting drunk.

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« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2013, 06:07:40 PM »

police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.

 Howdy jayjay,

 I'm so sorry for your step-daughter.  I pray that some sort of intervention will happen soon and she'll be able to get better.  It seems like an insurmountable problem, all things are possible with Christ (sorry for sounding trite).  My nephew is addicted to meth and has been in rehab twice now.  AFAIK, he's doing better, but AFAIK addicts will always have a difficult time with temptation. 

 I think your diagnosis as to why is pretty much spot on.  For many folks, life is empty.  It sounds counter-intuitive, but it seems like we're over stimulated with too much pleasure and because of this, well, there's nowhere else to go but to get high. 

 Anyway, thank you very much for what you do!  Y'all don't get paid enough in my opinion.
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« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2013, 08:30:53 PM »

The most abused and in my opinion the hardest drugs to quit are alcohol and tobacco.  Alcohol has probably destroyed more lives than any other drug.

Alcohol and tobacco often lead to other addictions. Marijuana and Ritalin are often gateways to other drug addictions. I have met many who have claimed to have just an alcohol addiction but who also are forced to admit that they have an addiction to marijuana and cocaine once they start detox.

BTW, How many here have visited patients while they are in detox? It is not a pretty sight.

Please provide me evidence that having an addiction to alcohol and tobacco causes one to become addicted to something else.  Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.
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« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2013, 08:31:54 PM »

BTW, How many here have visited patients while they are in detox? It is not a pretty sight.

And yeah, I've seen patients who are detoxing.  I spent some time in 2011 at a psychiatric facility that doubled as a detox center.
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« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2013, 08:33:44 PM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.

Pretty much this.

Not everybody.  The only time I had a "buzz" was when I was in the hospital with kidney stones.  I got both demerol and dilaudid injections.  The first shot was heavenly because I could finally breath.  The pain was still there, but, it was bearable.

I have to say that was the ONLY thing I liked about it....that the pain subsided to a dull roar.  I didn't like the fuzzy fealing, I didn't like the dizziness, I didn't like the whole experience.

The nurse kept coming in like clockwork to give me these shots....until I finally told her NO!!!  No more!!!!  I'll take the pain.  She was shocked.  She stated that she's already measured it out....like that would make a difference to me....and that now it's my fault that it will go to waste, and I should just let her inject me...since it's already in the syringe.  No.  No more.

She walked away shaking her head.

...and I've also never been drunk.

I could never understand the whole hype around getting drunk.  Seems so stupid.  If you have to be drunk to have fun, are you actually really having any fun?



I know no one who gets drunk to have fun.  You get drunk to escape.
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« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2013, 09:31:35 PM »

police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.

Thank God....a voice of reason...and someone who knows what he is talking about.

Not really.

It's just another non-thinking petty white man bourgeois fantasy propagated under thin guise of Christianity. I would be afraid if someone like him took some sort of power to start a nutty cultural hegemony.

I don't like drug dealers either, but you have to be kidding yourself if you truly believe it has anything to do with lack of respect and belief in God. What utter nonsense. These middle class sensibilities bore me.

And really, all drugs destroy society? Get real. Folks who smoke a bowl after work because it relaxes them or whatever are okay in my book.

It's too bad we live in a screwed up world where the alternative to not working for the institutions is being a drug addict or unemployed. Maybe get into porn which you can be screwed for 800 dollars a shoot versus getting screwed at a McJob for 8.50 an hr.

Might want to fix the alternative before you approach the drugs. Or lay off whatever crack you smoked out of a Glenn Beck book when you wrote your post.
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« Reply #87 on: May 28, 2013, 09:38:20 PM »

The most abused and in my opinion the hardest drugs to quit are alcohol and tobacco.  Alcohol has probably destroyed more lives than any other drug.
For some it is a relief from the ills of being in a screwed up world.
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« Reply #88 on: May 28, 2013, 09:41:06 PM »

police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.

Thank God....a voice of reason...and someone who knows what he is talking about.

Not really.

It's just another non-thinking petty white man bourgeois fantasy propagated under thin guise of Christianity. I would be afraid if someone like him took some sort of power to start a nutty cultural hegemony.

I don't like drug dealers either, but you have to be kidding yourself if you truly believe it has anything to do with lack of respect and belief in God. What utter nonsense. These middle class sensibilities bore me.

And really, all drugs destroy society? Get real. Folks who smoke a bowl after work because it relaxes them or whatever are okay in my book.

It's too bad we live in a screwed up world where the alternative to not working for the institutions is being a drug addict or unemployed. Maybe get into porn which you can be screwed for 800 dollars a shoot versus getting screwed at a McJob for 8.50 an hr.

Might want to fix the alternative before you approach the drugs. Or lay off whatever crack you smoked out of a Glenn Beck book when you wrote your post.

You don't get 800 a shoot.  Well, women might, I haven't a clue there.  But for men, you're talking a couple hundred for an amateur porn video, around 400 for straight sex, and around a grand to a bit more than a grand for gay sex.  Then of course, the more...umm, unusual the porn, the higher the price.  At least according to the couple of gay guys I know who've done a fair amount of porn.
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« Reply #89 on: May 28, 2013, 09:45:45 PM »

I don't know what the going rate is. Actually Men have always made less in porn. You could get yourself in a 16 and Pregnant spot, then use that to leverage a cool 1.5 million for a porno.

Everybody knows thats how you get famous.
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« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2013, 09:52:18 PM »

Sorry if I was too harsh. I am just so sick and tired of hearing the pathology around here everytime topics like this come up and then pontificating the crude conservative framework that comes out of it.
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« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2013, 10:24:08 PM »


Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.

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« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2013, 10:37:20 PM »

Wait, wait, wait, wait, WAIT. WAIT!

You can grow meth?  Shocked





Sorry if anyone on the 2nd page beat me to it
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« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2013, 10:40:10 PM »

If they sold it at either trader joes of whole foods Maria would take it, I bet.
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« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2013, 10:52:12 PM »


That's uncalled for.
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« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2013, 12:07:19 AM »


Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.




I agree Liza. Meth is a horrible drug that has destroyed families and wreaked havoc on entire communities. Meth has done to poor, rural white communities what crack has done to poor, urban black communities. There is no place in America today that has not been indelibly stained with the plight of chemically manufactured and highly addictive drugs. And I don't know why acknowledging this sad reality is somehow considered "right wing conservative propaganda."


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« Reply #96 on: May 29, 2013, 12:33:24 AM »

Why does everybody have wild and radical story about drug use? Its probably hyped-up and overblown.

Pretty much this.

Not everybody.  The only time I had a "buzz" was when I was in the hospital with kidney stones.  I got both demerol and dilaudid injections.  The first shot was heavenly because I could finally breath.  The pain was still there, but, it was bearable.

I have to say that was the ONLY thing I liked about it....that the pain subsided to a dull roar.  I didn't like the fuzzy fealing, I didn't like the dizziness, I didn't like the whole experience.

The nurse kept coming in like clockwork to give me these shots....until I finally told her NO!!!  No more!!!!  I'll take the pain.  She was shocked.  She stated that she's already measured it out....like that would make a difference to me....and that now it's my fault that it will go to waste, and I should just let her inject me...since it's already in the syringe.  No.  No more.

She walked away shaking her head.

...and I've also never been drunk.

I could never understand the whole hype around getting drunk.  Seems so stupid.  If you have to be drunk to have fun, are you actually really having any fun?



I know no one who gets drunk to have fun.  You get drunk to escape.

How loose are you being with the word "escape"?  I have known plenty of people who get drunk without intending to escape anything except perhaps the humdrum of everyday life.  But that is what ALL pastimes are for.  I personally have gotten drunk to escape at some times and just to have fun at others. 
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« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2013, 12:52:34 AM »


Yeah, I don't think all the college boys were "escaping"...they were just having their version of fun.
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« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2013, 01:10:21 AM »

I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left. 

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.

No, it isn't about wealth and poverty.  Ask the Swedish Rioters...



Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.




I agree Liza. Meth is a horrible drug that has destroyed families and wreaked havoc on entire communities. Meth has done to poor, rural white communities what crack has done to poor, urban black communities. There is no place in America today that has not been indelibly stained with the plight of chemically manufactured and highly addictive drugs. And I don't know why acknowledging this sad reality is somehow considered "right wing conservative propaganda."


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« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2013, 05:24:20 AM »

Well, addiction is a learned behavior. They offer addiction counseling and treatment programs ... Are you aware of something called drug-induced psychosis?..

It CAN be a learned behavior, but not usually.
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« Reply #100 on: May 29, 2013, 05:25:50 AM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.
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« Reply #101 on: May 29, 2013, 05:27:24 AM »

police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.

Thank God....a voice of reason...and someone who knows what he is talking about.

Not really.

It's just another non-thinking petty white man bourgeois fantasy propagated under thin guise of Christianity. I would be afraid if someone like him took some sort of power to start a nutty cultural hegemony.

I don't like drug dealers either, but you have to be kidding yourself if you truly believe it has anything to do with lack of respect and belief in God. What utter nonsense. These middle class sensibilities bore me.

And really, all drugs destroy society? Get real. Folks who smoke a bowl after work because it relaxes them or whatever are okay in my book.

It's too bad we live in a screwed up world where the alternative to not working for the institutions is being a drug addict or unemployed. Maybe get into porn which you can be screwed for 800 dollars a shoot versus getting screwed at a McJob for 8.50 an hr.

Might want to fix the alternative before you approach the drugs. Or lay off whatever crack you smoked out of a Glenn Beck book when you wrote your post.

Wow! Shocked

You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.
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« Reply #102 on: May 29, 2013, 05:29:04 AM »

Sorry if I was too harsh. I am just so sick and tired of hearing the pathology around here everytime topics like this come up and then pontificating the crude conservative framework that comes out of it.

No worries.  Not everyone responds to truth calmly. 
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« Reply #103 on: May 29, 2013, 05:29:42 AM »


Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.



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« Reply #104 on: May 29, 2013, 05:31:08 AM »


Really?  Now we are on to porn?

I'm glad that the men on this thread don't represent the majority of Orthodox males.

This is all very sad.




I agree Liza. Meth is a horrible drug that has destroyed families and wreaked havoc on entire communities. Meth has done to poor, rural white communities what crack has done to poor, urban black communities. There is no place in America today that has not been indelibly stained with the plight of chemically manufactured and highly addictive drugs. And I don't know why acknowledging this sad reality is somehow considered "right wing conservative propaganda."


Selam

It isn't. 
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« Reply #105 on: May 29, 2013, 07:27:31 AM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

The fact that an addict, hell even most addicts, who's addiction is, say, heroin or crack, first used pot or ritalin does not make it a "gateway drug."  The concept is foolish.  Rather, it is more likely that the situation is as follows: someone who is willing to take the risks of using heroin or crack (legal and health risks) is much more likely to be willing to use pot or prescription drugs, without a prescription, than is someone who would never use heroin or crack.  That doesn't mean that using pot leads one to use heroin, but rather that a person who is likely to use heroin is also likely to use pot; I would be extremely surprised if you could turn up any evidence that the use of marijuana increases the likelihood of heroin or crack use.
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« Reply #106 on: May 29, 2013, 09:04:33 AM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

The fact that an addict, hell even most addicts, who's addiction is, say, heroin or crack, first used pot or ritalin does not make it a "gateway drug."  

 Roll Eyes

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« Reply #107 on: May 29, 2013, 09:34:40 AM »

Quote
The fact that an addict, hell even most addicts, who's addiction is, say, heroin or crack, first used pot or ritalin does not make it a "gateway drug." 
So making out is not, nor should it be considered to be, a prelude to sex?
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« Reply #108 on: May 29, 2013, 09:55:31 AM »

police Hi. I've read the comments, some are interesting, some ill informed, some silly ( no, I won't tell ). I'm in law enforcement, and have been for over 16 yrs. From personal experience, meth is a curse on society, as is other illicit drugs - including marijuana, alcohol, prescription tablets etc. In my line of work, I deal with the 'dark side' on a daily basis. Meth is one of the most destructive drugs out there - when cooked it is 'pure', but as it goes down the line it is cut with other chemicals, like drano, rat sack, then sold on the streets. Unless you have dealt first hand with those who are out of their mind on meth, you have no idea what you are talking about. And, yes, it's not just meth destroying our society, and your society, it's coke, heroin, booze, pills, the list goes on. I believe it boils down to a loss of respect, breakdown of families, a loss of the belief in God, and a loss of self respect for the individual. ALL drugs are destroying our society, and all drugs are under the umbrella called SIN. Only God can save us. And I know what many are going through, my step daughter is a Meth head, and thinks she is in the right, and that I am the one that is in the wrong. I pray for all those affected by this curse are one day healed and come into the arms of our Lord.

Thank God....a voice of reason...and someone who knows what he is talking about.

Not really.

It's just another non-thinking petty white man bourgeois fantasy propagated under thin guise of Christianity. I would be afraid if someone like him took some sort of power to start a nutty cultural hegemony.

I don't like drug dealers either, but you have to be kidding yourself if you truly believe it has anything to do with lack of respect and belief in God. What utter nonsense. These middle class sensibilities bore me.

And really, all drugs destroy society? Get real. Folks who smoke a bowl after work because it relaxes them or whatever are okay in my book.

It's too bad we live in a screwed up world where the alternative to not working for the institutions is being a drug addict or unemployed. Maybe get into porn which you can be screwed for 800 dollars a shoot versus getting screwed at a McJob for 8.50 an hr.

Might want to fix the alternative before you approach the drugs. Or lay off whatever crack you smoked out of a Glenn Beck book when you wrote your post.

 This was probably one of the most hateful, angry attacks on a person that I've seen on this forum. 
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« Reply #109 on: May 29, 2013, 10:11:23 AM »

I think I quoted the wrong person with that post. Didn't have time to edit it.

To whoever you are ignore it

Edit: wait this ain't in Politics? My bad, didn't know this was the public board.
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« Reply #110 on: May 29, 2013, 10:36:18 AM »

Addiction is far more complicated than 'learning' and 'unlearning.'  That's why counseling usually does not work with true cases of addiction, whereas someone who is in physical dependency can often use counseling to get through the withdrawals until the body heals and the cravings subside.

Well, addiction is a learned behavior. They offer addiction counseling and treatment programs ... Are you aware of something called drug-induced psychosis?..

It CAN be a learned behavior, but not usually.
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« Reply #111 on: May 29, 2013, 11:27:56 AM »

I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left. 

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.
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« Reply #112 on: May 29, 2013, 11:31:42 AM »

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« Reply #113 on: May 29, 2013, 11:32:47 AM »

That's why they are miserable: they don't have what we all need.

I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left. 

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.

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« Reply #114 on: May 29, 2013, 11:34:02 AM »

Addiction is far more complicated than 'learning' and 'unlearning.'  That's why counseling usually does not work with true cases of addiction, whereas someone who is in physical dependency can often use counseling to get through the withdrawals until the body heals and the cravings subside.

Well, addiction is a learned behavior. They offer addiction counseling and treatment programs ... Are you aware of something called drug-induced psychosis?..

It CAN be a learned behavior, but not usually.


Addiction counseling is the initial phase for starting drug rehab. 
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« Reply #115 on: May 29, 2013, 11:49:00 AM »

That depends on the rehab program.  There are some programs that require an addict have 30 days sober before starting counseling.  So, the process is initiated before any 'professional' counseling is undertaken.

That gets into the whole topic of counseling as a profession versus a non-professional 'sponsor' who does a type of counseling.

I don't know of any counselors that would advocate counseling as a stand-alone process for recovery from addiction, which is what I was pointing to in my previous post.  The most successful programs, based on the 12 Steps, are spiritual in nature, whereas professional counseling training is not spiritual in nature (though some can add flavors to it).



Addiction is far more complicated than 'learning' and 'unlearning.'  That's why counseling usually does not work with true cases of addiction, whereas someone who is in physical dependency can often use counseling to get through the withdrawals until the body heals and the cravings subside.

Well, addiction is a learned behavior. They offer addiction counseling and treatment programs ... Are you aware of something called drug-induced psychosis?..

It CAN be a learned behavior, but not usually.


Addiction counseling is the initial phase for starting drug rehab. 
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« Reply #116 on: May 29, 2013, 12:05:26 PM »

I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left. 

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.


Best answer.
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« Reply #117 on: May 29, 2013, 12:42:07 PM »


I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left.  

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.
Quote


think about this next time you reach for that straw or whatever you use. but seriously this is such a platitude.

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« Reply #118 on: May 29, 2013, 02:06:16 PM »


I agree.

Out here, some of the most rabidly anti-drug folks are on the Left.  

We see what we want to see, and excuse what we want to excuse.  We can excuse the casual pot smoker, but get really bent out of shape with the local tweaker.

I am not as concerned about pot smokers any more than I am concerned about heavy drinkers, knowing that both are dangerous gambles that many folks take without consequences.  The problem is that there are people who lose the gamble all the time, and society is forced to clean up the wreckage.

I think that if life is intolerable without intoxication, then it is hardly a life.  If regular drinking or pot smoking in necessary for happiness, then you have some real problems to deal with.  I can understand an occasional joint just like I can excuse an occasional beer bash.  What we ought to look at is why so many people are miserable.


People do not need drugs; they need Christ.
Quote


think about this next time you reach for that straw or whatever you use. but seriously this is such a platitude.


Pointing out a truth is trite, meaningless, banal?  Wow!  Interesting.....

Do you think that people do not need Christ??  Or that they do need drugs?

Or is it that the way Maria expressed it just doesn't measure up to your standards?  <yawn>
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« Reply #119 on: May 29, 2013, 02:11:06 PM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

You really don't understand sampling bias . . .

I was a "hardcore" addict and I knew tons of people who did every drug under the sun socially and "responsibly". Smoking crack could always kills you due to some underlying medical conditions, but no, not even crack is a gateway drug or gets people strung out by using it socially.

I've exhaled more drugs than you have ever seen.
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« Reply #120 on: May 29, 2013, 02:12:04 PM »

People do not need drugs; they need Christ.

People need Christ but they might enjoy occasional drugs too. I like my coffee.
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« Reply #121 on: May 29, 2013, 02:12:09 PM »

Quote
The fact that an addict, hell even most addicts, who's addiction is, say, heroin or crack, first used pot or ritalin does not make it a "gateway drug." 
So making out is not, nor should it be considered to be, a prelude to sex?

Milk is a gateway drug.
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« Reply #122 on: May 29, 2013, 02:23:48 PM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

You really don't understand sampling bias . . .

I was a "hardcore" addict and I knew tons of people who did every drug under the sun socially and "responsibly". Smoking crack could always kills you due to some underlying medical conditions, but no, not even crack is a gateway drug or gets people strung out by using it socially.

I've exhaled more drugs than you have ever seen.

Sorry you had to go through that...however, I don't understand the necessity to do drugs "socially".

I'm not picking a fight...I simply cannot understand how anyone can justify social drug use. 

We've been told above that it's not for fun, but, escape.

We've also been told above that it's not due to some lack of knowledge of God.

However, if one knows God, one always has hope, no matter how bad things get...therefore, why the need to "escape"?



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« Reply #123 on: May 29, 2013, 02:40:33 PM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

You really don't understand sampling bias . . .

I was a "hardcore" addict and I knew tons of people who did every drug under the sun socially and "responsibly". Smoking crack could always kills you due to some underlying medical conditions, but no, not even crack is a gateway drug or gets people strung out by using it socially.

I've exhaled more drugs than you have ever seen.

Sorry you had to go through that...however, I don't understand the necessity to do drugs "socially".

I'm not picking a fight...I simply cannot understand how anyone can justify social drug use.  

We've been told above that it's not for fun, but, escape.

We've also been told above that it's not due to some lack of knowledge of God.

However, if one knows God, one always has hope, no matter how bad things get...therefore, why the need to "escape"?

What's not a drug?

I am not condoning anything, I am just saying let's avoid reefer madness.

As I told JamesR, he shouldn't do most "drugs". The relative good that comes from doesn't offset the suffering IME.

It would be a better world if people didn't binge drink, smoke unhealthly, eat too much (this is what kills more people than most in this country, not liquor or cigarettes), etc.

But I have to say I knew people, many who occasionally used "drugs" for recreation.

I don't understand it. As it was my life, nevertheless they exist.

In my world, the distribution of certain amounts of substances would come with heavy punishment, while the consumption would not. And if someone were shown to be truly addicted that would go to mitigate their punishment in various crimes they committed in the act of being sick.

And I would extend this to food, entertainment, internet use, etc.
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« Reply #124 on: May 30, 2013, 12:03:08 AM »

Please also provide evidence that marijuana and ritalin are "gateways" to addiction to other drugs.

Go talk to a few hard core addicts.  I have talked to a lot of them.

You really don't understand sampling bias . . .

I was a "hardcore" addict and I knew tons of people who did every drug under the sun socially and "responsibly". Smoking crack could always kills you due to some underlying medical conditions, but no, not even crack is a gateway drug or gets people strung out by using it socially.

I've exhaled more drugs than you have ever seen.

Sorry you had to go through that...however, I don't understand the necessity to do drugs "socially".

I'm not picking a fight...I simply cannot understand how anyone can justify social drug use. 

We've been told above that it's not for fun, but, escape.

We've also been told above that it's not due to some lack of knowledge of God.

However, if one knows God, one always has hope, no matter how bad things get...therefore, why the need to "escape"?




He is one person, I've talked to hundreds and he talks about a sampling bias.  But I am glad he is doing better.
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