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Author Topic: Prophetic Dreams ~ Foretelling the future?  (Read 2803 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: May 23, 2013, 07:41:01 PM »

I've been having these weird and illuminating dreams ... Do they foretell the future? Or give insight.
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2013, 08:46:56 PM »


Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Sometimes their purpose is simply to mislead us.

Don't trust them. If God is trying to send you a message He will try again and again.
It's best to doubt these things, though.

God will find another way to reach you if this method fails.


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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 08:48:11 PM »

I lost my cat awhile back.  I've had lots of dreams about finding him, but it hasn't come to pass yet.  Sad
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 09:03:56 PM »

Do you think its that cat we have now?...
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 09:06:06 PM »


Don't trust them. If God is trying to send you a message He will try again and again.
It's best to doubt these things, though.

This. It talks about this in the Book "The Arena".
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 09:17:11 PM »

Do you think its that cat we have now?...

It might be a long hike to TX from PA.  He was kind of a wussy cat.  I'd be surprised if he made it out of the neighborhood.
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2013, 09:28:02 PM »


Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Sometimes their purpose is simply to mislead us.

Don't trust them. If God is trying to send you a message He will try again and again.
It's best to doubt these things, though.

God will find another way to reach you if this method fails.
Even then, I would seek spirtual guidance from a priest or staretz.
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2013, 06:52:20 PM »

I have had dreams that for so long stayed fresh in my mind , thirty years or more. They have come true in ways that are unmistakable but would be hard for anyone else to understand or believe.

However, I also feel that they were prophetic only in the sense that I would know that was where God intended me to be at the time, and he was helping me through some difficult times by having shown these things to me . So they weren't intended for me to act upon them, only for future reference as a Faith builder and guide.
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 10:11:19 PM »

I've had lots of dreams that were prophetic. Not in any terribly meaningful way, for the most part, though. One night when I was a troubled teenager, I had a dream that I was in a recognizable alley, rising, fallen, from a puddle, with black poodles barking at me. A day or two later, it happened (I was drunk), the only different being that the black poodle was one. Another time, I was dreaming over and over again of pulling a bubbling coffee cup out of a microwave. That morning, dream almost forgotten, I pulled an over-heated cup of coffee out of the microwave and instantly remembered the repetitive dream. Before I had ever entered an Orthodox church, I had two dreams about the iconostasis (which I had never before seen!). In one dream, I was in a darkened mall, and on the floor was an ornately carved iconostasis (which I had never seen). I remember trying to get in, through the wood, but I couldn't. I was interested in Orthodoxy at the time, though. Later - I don't know how much later... a year? - I attended my first Liturgy and the carved iconostasis was instantly recognizable from the dream. Another dream was of a room, all wood, carved in very specific patterns. Again, at a particular liturgical service at a Russian church, I recognized not only the patterns and the wood, but the feeling of a tradition and heritage that was very sacred and inviting, but not naturally belonging to me.

I've had lots of others, but the most amazing one I had went like this:

I had a dream once that I was living in a white house near a big field or open clearing. I stayed home - from work or school - feeling sick and withdrawn. I was watching TV on a little couch with a black and white afghan on it. And the walls turned orange. And someone - my Beloved? - came to visit me. I ran outside, and all I recall was this feeling of grace and love. And the most amazing, intense colour of purple! Like a flower, or fireworks...

Anyway, fast forward a year or so, and I was living in a new town, studying at the University there. I came home early from school, feeling sick and withdrawn. That morning, feeling very doubtful of God (due mostly to suffering), I had prayed to God to help me have faith... earnestly, with lots of emotion. This was 2 or 3 months before I was finally received into the Orthodox Church. Feeling my faith waning, I borrowed "The Gospel of John" from the movie store on the way home, and upon arriving, plugged it into the DVD player on my laptop. I was staying in a converted motel (white) right on Lake Nipissing in North Bay, Ontario. A crazy winter storm was blowing in, the first of the year. I was just feeling terribly off, a bit sick, and feverish, so just laid on my couch watching the movie. As the sun went down, the light in the room started turning orange. I was suddenly and instantly reminded of this dream I had had, a dream that had seemed so profound and memorable... even if nothing had really happened. But I remembered this intense purple... something. I knew it was important. So I got up and went outside and looked for a purple flower or something, just testing to see if this moment was indeed somehow connected to my dream. I saw some thick purple weeds, but nothing terribly significant. So I went back and laid back down. The wind was howling. I noticed the black and white afghan I was laying on. Everything referred me back to this vague dream I had had! The feeling was very powerful, but I couldn't quite grasp it. I was really feverish and sick feeling, and so I started to dose off, thinking to myself that there was something I needed to see... something purple. Where was the purple? Was this the dream? And then I fell asleep. Not very long after, I awoke to the sound of the wind pummeling my window. I saw the lake through the blinds, covered in whitecaps, flaked with gold and red from the sunset. The sun was a ball of crimson. I looked at my laptop, and on it unfolded the scene from St. John's Gospel where the crowds were getting riled up as Jesus spoke, and He said: "Before Abraham was, I AM," and everyone became even more fired up and angry. Anyway, I looked through the blinds again and impulsively decided that I needed to take a picture of the sunset on the lake. I grabbed my digital SLR, ran outside to the beach, snapped a quick shot. I looked at the picture on my camera and saw that the battery was dying. Then it died... the first and last time it has ever done that. Then I just stopped and looked. The clouds slowly caught fire, and this most intense and delicious purple gradually covered some of the fat, dark clouds. It looked like a big, purple flower, and the entire dream and its mysterious significance hit me with incredible force... the feeling, the colors, the waiting on my Beloved, Who came unexpectedly for a visit. And all I could think of were Christ's words: "Before Abraham was, I Am."

Not sure if I should share something so personal here, but what the heck!
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2013, 10:13:36 PM »

I've been having these weird and illuminating dreams ... Do they foretell the future? Or give insight.

The last of the prophets lived just before the NT era.  Not until things are about to wrap up will new prophets live.  These are just dreams.
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2013, 12:37:09 AM »

I've been having these weird and illuminating dreams ... Do they foretell the future? Or give insight.

Oh they give insight . . .
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2013, 01:29:16 AM »

Just moments before seeing this thread while looking for info on a certain saint I happened upon an interesting Q/A post on this topic by a young Orthodox lady who lives in Greece:

Quote
Q: I am gifted in the area of dream interpretation and have encountered thousands of dreams from God speaking to the dreamer. I have also seen many dreams borne out of the dreamers own soul and also those of darkness. My question is why does the Orthodox faith dismiss dreams when clearly a large portion of the Bible itself is based on dreams and visions. of course I understand the need for caution and counsel particularly with dreams that could lead a person astray if not correctly understood.

A. Hello dear,
The Orthodox teaching on dreams is that we shouldn’t believe them and interpret them, but dismiss them, because they may come from the devil. We should be very careful with dreams and visions.

In the Bible there are indeed some divinely-sent dreams. The Old Testament however does not classify all dreams as God-sent. Indeed the elect of God receive very few dreams. On the other hand many dreams are considered as false. These are the dreams of the falser prophets, men who do not speak for God, and those dreams were not initiated by the Lord:

“Do I not fill Heaven and earth? says the Lord. I have heard what the prophets have said who prophecy lies in my Name, saying “I have dreamed, I have dreamed!“. - Jer. 23: 24-25

Let’s read some quotes of some Saints and elders that talk about dreams, and why we shouldn’t believe in them.

Elder Ieronimos of Aegina said:
It is better for us not to believe in dreams at all, because many have gone astray on their account. There are three kinds of dreams: those from God, those from our thoughts, and those from the enemy. If they are from God and we don’t believe them, God does not take offense, because we don’t believe them out of fear, lest we be led into deception. If I should come in the night and knock on your door, and you don’t open to me because you do not recognize my voice, I am not offended. So it is with God, He is not angry when out of fear of God we don’t believe dreams. Wine and vinegar have the same appearance. From the taste you understand the difference. If the dreams are from God, they bring calm; if they are from the enemy, they bring turmoil. Beware of deceptions. Better to protect ourselves and not believe anything outside of what our Church teaches.

Elder Macarius gives the following advice:
It is dangerous to assume that our dreams are revelations: this leads to spiritual pride. Ponder calmly: is it likely that a heart and mind, both fully under the influence of all the wildest passions, can truly mirror divine revelations? Does not such an assumption betray undue reliance on your own worthiness? For who can esteem himself worthy of such grace?

Saint Nikolai Velimirovic adds:
The spiritists of our time accept every appearance from the spiritual world as sent by God and immediately boast that it has been ‘revealed’ to them. I was myself acquainted with an eighty-year-old monk who was respected by everyone as a great spiritual guide. When I asked him if he had ever seen any being from the spiritual world in his lifetime, he answered me: “‘No’, – never; and praise be to God for his mercy!“ Seeing my astonishment at this, he said: “I have constantly prayed to God that nothing should ever appear to me, lest I fall into illusion and accept a devil disguised as an angel. And, until now, God has heard my prayer“. (The Prologue of Ochrid)

And finally, Saint John Climacus says:
He who believes in dreams is completely inexperienced. But he who distrusts all dreams is a “wise man…”

I hope that the wisdom of the Saints reply to your question. God bless you!


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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2013, 10:14:21 AM »

I've had a few times such kind of dreams, but, fortunately, I don't have them anymore. I wrote "fortunately", because they were usually about somebody's dead (and e.g the priest leading the ceremony, or the cemetery were almost identical), illness etc. Maybe 2-3 of them were about nice things. I think I've had them to be prepared in some way. I know that we should be very carefull with dreams in general, because it's the time that demons can in easiest way affect on our minds and souls (that's also the case of another kind of dreams - you know, what I mean). So I find the texts that xariskai quoted very useful.
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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2013, 12:46:50 PM »

I don't know, it seems to me we throw the baby out with the bath water too often in these matters. I mean if you read the above these dreams obviously happen.

I understand being cautious and I don't disagree with it, nor do I think we should not guard ourselves against pride. If God chooses to speak to someone in a dream it certainly is should not be an indication that they are special or good. Does not God frequently use unworthy vessels.

But shouldn't we take the opportunity to teach. If God sends people dreams, and does God do anything without a purpose, should we pretend He doesn't when He does or should we teach the proper way to deal with dreams and how to distinguish those that are from Him and those that are from the enemy. If anyone should be the one to teach who better than the church? The last of the prophets lived before the start of the New  Testament? Read the lives of the Saints I would contend we've had plenty of prophets within our ranks. We should learn from ourselves not bury our history and experience under the rug.
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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2013, 01:43:37 PM »

I don't know, it seems to me we throw the baby out with the bath water too often in these matters. I mean if you read the above these dreams obviously happen.

That you will dream about heating coffee in the microwave (likely something seen or done often) then it happens later?

I think you toss the pot out with the coffee on this one.

One of my ways of quickly dismissing someone is based on how much I have to hear about what their mind does when they are asleep.

The best best sleep is utter oblivion. Dreamless. That I like to hear about. The other stuff? Unless it very funny or utterly terrifying, I really don't care and neither does anyone else, unless they are so unimaginative as to need someone to suffer listening to, so they can then tell them about their dreams.
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« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2013, 01:46:17 PM »

I don't know, it seems to me we throw the baby out with the bath water too often in these matters. I mean if you read the above these dreams obviously happen.

I understand being cautious and I don't disagree with it, nor do I think we should not guard ourselves against pride. If God chooses to speak to someone in a dream it certainly is should not be an indication that they are special or good.

I probably should not have shared such personal stories on a forum like this, for several reasons. Undecided I certainly did not mean to imply that I am in any way special or particularly good for having said experiences. Far from it! Who knows? I may even be delusional (although at least the latter of my experiences described above did help me take the plunge and become Orthodox, so perhaps - just perhaps - God does occasionally guide us unworthy creatures through our dreams). I do not know either way, and only have my own experiences to judge by. I understand and appreciate that the Church takes measures to protect us from spiritual pride, delusion, and the deception of demons. We certainly can't be too cautious. I have, however, spoken to several friends who have had interesting stories of dreams that seem to come true, and I do not necessarily think one must be special or saintly in order to have some psychic or prophetic experiences, even if naturally most of the dreams we have consist of nothing more than psychic debris unworthy of any deep consideration. And when I use "prophetic" in this and my post above, I do not mean as in a "prophet of God" or anything so lofty, but merely as in dreaming of something that ultimately seems to come true or tells the future in some manner. As I said, most of these kinds of dreams I've had have been essentially meaningless, but have made me ponder the idea that time is not quite as linear and/or inflexible as we fallen creatures seem to think of it.  

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« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2013, 02:28:49 PM »

I don't know, it seems to me we throw the baby out with the bath water too often in these matters. I mean if you read the above these dreams obviously happen.

I understand being cautious and I don't disagree with it, nor do I think we should not guard ourselves against pride. If God chooses to speak to someone in a dream it certainly is should not be an indication that they are special or good.

I probably should not have shared such personal stories on a forum like this, for several reasons. Undecided I certainly did not mean to imply that I am in any way special or particularly good for having said experiences. Far from it! Who knows? I may even be delusional (although at least the latter of my experiences described above did help me take the plunge and become Orthodox, so perhaps - just perhaps - God does occasionally guide us unworthy creatures through our dreams). I do not know either way, and only have my own experiences to judge by. I understand and appreciate that the Church takes measures to protect us from spiritual pride, delusion, and the deception of demons. We certainly can't be too cautious. I have, however, spoken to several friends who have had interesting stories of dreams that seem to come true, and I do not necessarily think one must be special or saintly in order to have some psychic or prophetic experiences, even if naturally most of the dreams we have consist of nothing more than psychic debris unworthy of any deep consideration. And when I use "prophetic" in this and my post above, I do not mean as in a "prophet of God" or anything so lofty, but merely as in dreaming of something that ultimately seems to come true or tells the future in some manner. As I said, most of these kinds of dreams I've had have been essentially meaningless, but have made me ponder the idea that time is not quite as linear and/or inflexible as we fallen creatures seem to think of it. 

I say no more.  Lips Sealed  Smiley

Stavros, I certainly meant no offense to you in particular and actually appreciate what you wrote, it is in part why I wrote what I did, that we should be on guard but also open about such things not always sweeping them under the rug. What you shared should, in my opinion at least, be openly shared discussed and  learned from for those who are interested in learning. Forgive me.
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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2013, 02:37:27 PM »

What is the Church Fathers' teaching on Prophetic dream?

Were there any Saints got the prophetic dreams in their life?  
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« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2013, 02:55:12 PM »

I don't know, it seems to me we throw the baby out with the bath water too often in these matters. I mean if you read the above these dreams obviously happen.

I understand being cautious and I don't disagree with it, nor do I think we should not guard ourselves against pride. If God chooses to speak to someone in a dream it certainly is should not be an indication that they are special or good.

I probably should not have shared such personal stories on a forum like this, for several reasons. Undecided I certainly did not mean to imply that I am in any way special or particularly good for having said experiences. Far from it! Who knows? I may even be delusional (although at least the latter of my experiences described above did help me take the plunge and become Orthodox, so perhaps - just perhaps - God does occasionally guide us unworthy creatures through our dreams). I do not know either way, and only have my own experiences to judge by. I understand and appreciate that the Church takes measures to protect us from spiritual pride, delusion, and the deception of demons. We certainly can't be too cautious. I have, however, spoken to several friends who have had interesting stories of dreams that seem to come true, and I do not necessarily think one must be special or saintly in order to have some psychic or prophetic experiences, even if naturally most of the dreams we have consist of nothing more than psychic debris unworthy of any deep consideration. And when I use "prophetic" in this and my post above, I do not mean as in a "prophet of God" or anything so lofty, but merely as in dreaming of something that ultimately seems to come true or tells the future in some manner. As I said, most of these kinds of dreams I've had have been essentially meaningless, but have made me ponder the idea that time is not quite as linear and/or inflexible as we fallen creatures seem to think of it.  

I say no more.  Lips Sealed  Smiley

Stavros, I certainly meant no offense to you in particular and actually appreciate what you wrote, it is in part why I wrote what I did, that we should be on guard but also open about such things not always sweeping them under the rug. What you shared should, in my opinion at least, be openly shared discussed and  learned from for those who are interested in learning. Forgive me.

Thank you. No offence taken and no forgiveness required, Maximum Bob. I appreciate what you wrote, as well as your view on this matter, and any regret I have expressed for sharing such personal testimony was not a result of anything you wrote. I just wanted to clarify my position, I guess.  Smiley

*Edited about 4 times for grammar and wording.  laugh
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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2013, 03:23:21 PM »

I don't know, it seems to me we throw the baby out with the bath water too often in these matters. I mean if you read the above these dreams obviously happen.

I understand being cautious and I don't disagree with it, nor do I think we should not guard ourselves against pride. If God chooses to speak to someone in a dream it certainly is should not be an indication that they are special or good.

I probably should not have shared such personal stories on a forum like this, for several reasons. Undecided I certainly did not mean to imply that I am in any way special or particularly good for having said experiences. Far from it! Who knows? I may even be delusional (although at least the latter of my experiences described above did help me take the plunge and become Orthodox, so perhaps - just perhaps - God does occasionally guide us unworthy creatures through our dreams). I do not know either way, and only have my own experiences to judge by. I understand and appreciate that the Church takes measures to protect us from spiritual pride, delusion, and the deception of demons. We certainly can't be too cautious. I have, however, spoken to several friends who have had interesting stories of dreams that seem to come true, and I do not necessarily think one must be special or saintly in order to have some psychic or prophetic experiences, even if naturally most of the dreams we have consist of nothing more than psychic debris unworthy of any deep consideration. And when I use "prophetic" in this and my post above, I do not mean as in a "prophet of God" or anything so lofty, but merely as in dreaming of something that ultimately seems to come true or tells the future in some manner. As I said, most of these kinds of dreams I've had have been essentially meaningless, but have made me ponder the idea that time is not quite as linear and/or inflexible as we fallen creatures seem to think of it.  

I say no more.  Lips Sealed  Smiley

While I could not confess my sins and receive absolution during my catechumenate, I had repeated dreams where I was visiting an Orthodox monastery. The chapel was very similar to an Orthodox Church that I later visited. In those dreams, I would confess my sins and receive very good advice from the priest. These dreams ceased on the day that I was received into Holy Orthodoxy.

I told my priest about those dreams, and he said that many people have had such dreams, that we should always mention them to the priest, that we should tell the priest whatever advice/instructions we have received in them, and that it is best not to confide such advice received in dreams on an online forum such as this.

There was a story told on Mt. Athos, where a young monastic did not share his dreams with his elder. The young monastic was so filled with prelest from these "angelic" visitations that he began to feel that he was holier than his elder. Of course, it was the devil.

Reference: An Athonite Geronikon: Sayings of the Holy father of Mt. Athos, Holly Monastery of St. Gregory Palamas, Thessaloniki, Greece, 1991.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 03:36:37 PM by Maria » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2013, 03:54:32 PM »

Were there any Saints got the prophetic dreams in their life? 

Saint Joseph.
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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2013, 04:00:06 PM »

Were there any Saints got the prophetic dreams in their life?  

Saint Joseph.

Both of them.

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« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2013, 05:55:17 PM »


Perhaps these "prophetic" dreams are the root of deja vu.

I must admit I've experience deja vu before....in the silliest of moments, nothing life shattering or changing, however, I would have sworn I had experienced that very moment before, right down to the angle of the sunlight, what people were wearing, and could even "guess" at the next thing to happen.

It would only last a few seconds, but, would always leave me an impression on me. 

Perhaps it was a "repeat" because I had simply dreamed of that moment.

 

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« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2013, 07:11:26 PM »

I've been having these weird and illuminating dreams ... Do they foretell the future? Or give insight.

The last of the prophets lived just before the NT era.  Not until things are about to wrap up will new prophets live.  These are just dreams.

So how are we to know when God is about to "Wrap it up". This may be a part of that beginning.
But I also believe God works in mysterious ways that are not for us to define.

Proverbs 13:19
... It is pleasant to see dreams come true, but fools
refuse to turn from evil to attain them. ...
//bible.cc/proverbs/13-19.htm - 17k
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« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2013, 07:19:33 PM »

Were there any Saints got the prophetic dreams in their life? 

Saint Joseph.

Both of them.



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« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2013, 09:26:48 PM »

I've been having these weird and illuminating dreams ... Do they foretell the future? Or give insight.

The last of the prophets lived just before the NT era.  Not until things are about to wrap up will new prophets live.  These are just dreams.

So how are we to know when God is about to "Wrap it up". This may be a part of that beginning.
But I also believe God works in mysterious ways that are not for us to define.

Proverbs 13:19
... It is pleasant to see dreams come true, but fools
refuse to turn from evil to attain them. ...
//bible.cc/proverbs/13-19.htm - 17k


I don't know how we are to know, honestly.  I imagine it will be obvious as are other signs we are to keep watch for, but I don't know.
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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2013, 09:55:40 PM »

The last of the prophets lived before the start of the New  Testament? Read the lives of the Saints I would contend we've had plenty of prophets within our ranks.
Acts 2:17: "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

I think the reality of such dreams compatible with the very, very strong warnings of the Fathers.  

I have had dreams that can not have been deja vu, and that I cannot explain rationally, that were mind-bending and predictive, and which I personally think of as having come from God, because they were incredible and I have no other rational explanation. I don't talk about them -for me it's a personal thing. On the other hand I imagine the Saints cited above know a thing or two about human susceptibility to spiritual deception and the reality thereof, hence the strong warnings not to believe them unless there is no other possibility, and even then with utmost care and wise consultation. The devil, it is said, appears as a minister of light. I have seen people prone to chasing visons and miracles, Christian and not -never a pretty sight IMO.
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2013, 01:11:26 AM »


LOL. Poor LBK.
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« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2013, 01:17:46 AM »

The last of the prophets lived before the start of the New  Testament? Read the lives of the Saints I would contend we've had plenty of prophets within our ranks.
Acts 2:17: "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

I think the reality of such dreams compatible with the very, very strong warnings of the Fathers. 

I have had dreams that can not have been deja vu, and that I cannot explain rationally, that were mind-bending and predictive, and which I personally think of as having come from God, because they were incredible and I have no other rational explanation. I don't talk about them -for me it's a personal thing. On the other hand I imagine the Saints cited above know a thing or two about human susceptibility to spiritual deception and the reality thereof, hence the strong warnings not to believe them unless there is no other possibility, and even then with utmost care and wise consultation. The devil, it is said, appears as a minister of light. I have seen people prone to chasing visons and miracles, Christian and not -never a pretty sight IMO.
I'm not sure where your going here. Are we agreeing, disagreeing, or going different directions altogether?  Undecided Smiley
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« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2013, 01:21:11 AM »

The last of the prophets lived before the start of the New  Testament? Read the lives of the Saints I would contend we've had plenty of prophets within our ranks.
Acts 2:17: "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

I think the reality of such dreams compatible with the very, very strong warnings of the Fathers. 

I have had dreams that can not have been deja vu, and that I cannot explain rationally, that were mind-bending and predictive, and which I personally think of as having come from God, because they were incredible and I have no other rational explanation. I don't talk about them -for me it's a personal thing. On the other hand I imagine the Saints cited above know a thing or two about human susceptibility to spiritual deception and the reality thereof, hence the strong warnings not to believe them unless there is no other possibility, and even then with utmost care and wise consultation. The devil, it is said, appears as a minister of light. I have seen people prone to chasing visons and miracles, Christian and not -never a pretty sight IMO.
I'm not sure where your going here. Are we agreeing, disagreeing, or going different directions altogether?  Undecided Smiley

X usually doesn't stoop to such low behavior as agreeing or disagreeing as such, but seems intent on successfully edifying us and broadening the discussion in nearly every post he makes.

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« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2013, 03:09:13 AM »

The last of the prophets lived before the start of the New  Testament? Read the lives of the Saints I would contend we've had plenty of prophets within our ranks.
Acts 2:17: "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

I think the reality of such dreams compatible with the very, very strong warnings of the Fathers.  

I have had dreams that can not have been deja vu, and that I cannot explain rationally, that were mind-bending and predictive, and which I personally think of as having come from God, because they were incredible and I have no other rational explanation. I don't talk about them -for me it's a personal thing. On the other hand I imagine the Saints cited above know a thing or two about human susceptibility to spiritual deception and the reality thereof, hence the strong warnings not to believe them unless there is no other possibility, and even then with utmost care and wise consultation. The devil, it is said, appears as a minister of light. I have seen people prone to chasing visons and miracles, Christian and not -never a pretty sight IMO.
I'm not sure where your going here. Are we agreeing, disagreeing, or going different directions altogether?  Undecided Smiley
Apologies for the confusion; the part responding to your post was the quotation only, i.e. prophecy lives on.
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« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2013, 05:55:00 AM »


Given Michal's track record towards me, his posting of the second image cannot be accidental. The regulars should all know what the status of this image is, so I need not comment further.
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« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2013, 05:56:52 AM »

Any teachings about prophetic dreams from church fathers or Saints?
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« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2013, 10:54:51 AM »

The church fathers and saints did not have much teaching on prophecy/ prophetic dreams/ prophetic visions? Huh
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« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2013, 11:12:55 AM »

The church fathers and saints did not have much teaching on prophecy/ prophetic dreams/ prophetic visions? Huh

Someone suggested they may have.  I too would be interested.
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« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2013, 12:49:02 PM »

Given Michal's track record towards me, his posting of the second image cannot be accidental. The regulars should all know what the status of this image is, so I need not comment further.

He didn't post it. I did. While I understand your reasons why you don't like that particular icon I respectively disagree with you.

Btw, do you have any problem with the first icon?
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« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2013, 12:51:45 PM »

I am interested in whether there is any prophetic icon in Orthodox Church?
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« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2013, 01:18:51 PM »

Didn't Joseph from the OT interpret Pharao's prophetic dreams?
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« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2013, 02:32:05 PM »


Given Michal's track record towards me, his posting of the second image cannot be accidental. The regulars should all know what the status of this image is, so I need not comment further.

Sorry to dispel your feeling of importance but you should have looked closely posted it and speak up later. Not thought about you. I have nicer and more important things to think about.

I am interested in whether there is any prophetic icon in Orthodox Church?

What?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 03:09:53 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2013, 02:34:20 PM »


LBK, is this icon traditional or canonical? It looks like it is inspired by The Mummy Returns.
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« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2013, 09:18:01 PM »


Given Michal's track record towards me, his posting of the second image cannot be accidental. The regulars should all know what the status of this image is, so I need not comment further.

Sorry to dispel your feeling of importance but you should have looked closely posted it and speak up later. Not thought about you. I have nicer and more important things to think about.

I am interested in whether there is any prophetic icon in Orthodox Church?

What?
I think he means, "I'm interested in learning, so stop side tracking the thread."
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« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2013, 10:16:28 PM »


Given Michal's track record towards me, his posting of the second image cannot be accidental. The regulars should all know what the status of this image is, so I need not comment further.

Sorry to dispel your feeling of importance but you should have looked closely posted it and speak up later. Not thought about you. I have nicer and more important things to think about.

I am interested in whether there is any prophetic icon in Orthodox Church?

What?
I think he means, "I'm interested in learning, so stop side tracking the thread."

But either way what does prophetic icons mean? If Saints gifted in manners related to prophesy, sure St. Xenia of St. Petersburgs, St. John of Kronstadt etc., but if icons of prophesies...well???
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« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2013, 11:30:15 PM »


LBK, is this icon traditional or canonical? It looks like it is inspired by The Mummy Returns.

Nothing wrong with it, IMHO. Righteous Joseph was appointed by Pharaoh to a very high office within the Egyptian court.
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« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2013, 11:33:34 PM »

Given Michal's track record towards me, his posting of the second image cannot be accidental. The regulars should all know what the status of this image is, so I need not comment further.

He didn't post it. I did. While I understand your reasons why you don't like that particular icon I respectively disagree with you.

Btw, do you have any problem with the first icon?

I stand corrected on who posted it.

However, I would like to hear your reasons as to why the second image is a canonical icon, drawing from the liturgical, historical, and doctrinal traditions of the Orthodox Church, and not from mere pious opinion.
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« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2013, 11:50:34 PM »

Nothing wrong with it, IMHO. Righteous Joseph was appointed by Pharaoh to a very high office within the Egyptian court.

IMO the problem is his Egyptian apparel can be a reflection of some popular idea and not corresponding to the real apparel of a man of his position in that time. His clothes and hat look like from some cartoon or Indiana Jones film. I think his hast was certainly restricted for royal family and he shouldn't wear it. Any egyptiologists here?

However, I would like to hear your reasons as to why the second image is a canonical icon, drawing from the liturgical, historical, and doctrinal traditions of the Orthodox Church, and not from mere pious opinion.

Like anyone here does it.
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