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Author Topic: Why is God so Absent?  (Read 2379 times) Average Rating: 0
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2013, 09:53:30 PM »

I've lived the life of the Church

lol

If we say we have, we have not.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Shanghaiski
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« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2013, 09:56:19 PM »

Perhaps the OP should put aside a travel fund so next time there is word of a miracle he can immediately catch the next plane to check it out for himself.

If I visit Mt. Athos someday, I'm not going to leave until something amazing and miraculous happens--even if the Greek police have to arrest and deport me.

Testing God is as sin...

Besides the fact that oftentimes people get what they did not expect, but exactly what they asked for.
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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2013, 09:56:53 PM »

I've lived the life of the Church

lol

If we say we have, we have not.
I'm sorry but is there a certain point as a member of the Church where you can't say that?

We are all living in the life of the Church, it is always ongoing. Good grief people.
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“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2013, 09:57:47 PM »

Perhaps the OP should put aside a travel fund so next time there is word of a miracle he can immediately catch the next plane to check it out for himself.

If I visit Mt. Athos someday, I'm not going to leave until something amazing and miraculous happens--even if the Greek police have to arrest and deport me.

Testing God is as sin...

Well, if it offends Him, then He could do some cool amazing miracle like turn my fingers into snakes or strike me with lightning and then I'll get my wish to see something amazing.

Yeah.  Hell.

That would be amazing.

So, in the end, everyone gets to seem something amazing. Forever.
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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
TheTrisagion
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« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2013, 10:12:24 PM »

What if a person doesn't actually believe, not in the scriptures, not in the soul or even God....

Is it worse to lie and try to convince oneself, almost manicly, that this is real, and just go through the motions

Or is it better to be honest and simply let it all go and let what will be, be

I experienced this myself and was an agnostic for some time.  I just kind of kicked it into neutral and God brought me back.  I'm not sure if it is the recommended course of action though,  it isn't like God is obligated to bring us back. Rather than deconverting, I do think it can be helpful to take a step back at times, particularly if you are wrestling with a specific doctrine or issue that is causing the doubt.  You might not be able to figure that specific issue out, but it is not a reason to abandon the faith.
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Marc1152
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« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2013, 10:23:39 PM »

What if a person doesn't actually believe, not in the scriptures, not in the soul or even God....

Is it worse to lie and try to convince oneself, almost manicly, that this is real, and just go through the motions

Or is it better to be honest and simply let it all go and let what will be, be

Orthodox Christianity is not a mental exercise. If you go to all the services, fast diligently, pray without ceasing, repent your errors,  develop the virtues and learn to live for others, you make progress. Christianity is experiential..   
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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
truthseeker32
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« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2013, 11:00:51 PM »

What if a person doesn't actually believe, not in the scriptures, not in the soul or even God....

Is it worse to lie and try to convince oneself, almost manicly, that this is real, and just go through the motions

Or is it better to be honest and simply let it all go and let what will be, be

I experienced this myself and was an agnostic for some time.  I just kind of kicked it into neutral and God brought me back.  I'm not sure if it is the recommended course of action though,  it isn't like God is obligated to bring us back. Rather than deconverting, I do think it can be helpful to take a step back at times, particularly if you are wrestling with a specific doctrine or issue that is causing the doubt.  You might not be able to figure that specific issue out, but it is not a reason to abandon the faith.
I think it is unhealthy to go into anything with a "I am going to believe no matter what" mindset. There has to be something that persuades or compels us; otherwise we can arbitrarily choose any ideology and simply work at it until we convince ourselves.

One of the things I love about Orthodoxy is they don't ask you to brainwash yourself. You don't have to leave your brain at the door. You are asked to come and see.

If a person can honestly say they considered the faith, that they really tried to find out if it is true, and still don't believe, then I think they are in a more honest and honorable state than those who fake it.
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« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2013, 02:39:06 AM »

Perhaps the OP should put aside a travel fund so next time there is word of a miracle he can immediately catch the next plane to check it out for himself.

If I visit Mt. Athos someday, I'm not going to leave until something amazing and miraculous happens--even if the Greek police have to arrest and deport me.

Testing God is as sin...

Besides the fact that oftentimes people get what they did not expect, but exactly what they asked for.

Indeed. Someone keeps complaining he can't get no satisfaction, but the Glimmer Twins have the answer:

You can't always get what you want
No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you might find
You get what you need ....


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xariskai
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« Reply #98 on: July 04, 2013, 03:11:30 AM »

What if a person doesn't actually believe, not in the scriptures, not in the soul or even God....

Is it worse to lie and try to convince oneself, almost manicly, that this is real, and just go through the motions
Knowing God is not about straining to convince oneself. But that does not mean going through certain motions is unimportant; to the contrary.

"Are not Abanah and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage. Then his servants came near and spoke to him and said, "My father, had the prophet told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, 'Wash, and be clean '? So he went down and dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, according to the word of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean." -2 Kings 5:12-14

"'Go,' he told him, 'wash in the Pool of Siloam' (this word means Sent). So the man went and washed." -John 9:7

"To obtain anything from God, the outward must be joined to the inward; that is to say we must kneel and pray alone, etc. so that proud man, who would not submit to God, may now be subject to the body. To expect any help from this outward act is superstition; a refusal to join it to our inward acts is pride. For we must not misunderstand ourselves; we are as much machines as mind. And hence the means by which a man is persuaded are not demonstration alone. How few things are demonstrated! Proofs convince only the mind. It is habit that produces our strongest and most accepted proofs; it guides the machine, which carries the mind with it unconsciously. Who has proved that there will be a morrow and that we will die?”  -Blaise Pascal

"FIRE: God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, not of philosophers and scholars. God of Jesus Christ… He can only be found by the ways taught in the Gospel… He can only be kept by the ways taught in the Gospel." -Pascal
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 03:13:51 AM by xariskai » Logged

Silly Stars
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« Reply #99 on: July 04, 2013, 03:26:37 AM »

I will quote the words of an Indian Guru : God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh and since than he is been resting.

Of course he said that one with a smile on his face.
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stavros_388
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« Reply #100 on: July 04, 2013, 08:03:29 AM »


Rather than deconverting, I do think it can be helpful to take a step back at times, particularly if you are wrestling with a specific doctrine or issue that is causing the doubt.  You might not be able to figure that specific issue out, but it is not a reason to abandon the faith.

Not for me specifically... but thanks, I needed that.
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"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai
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« Reply #101 on: July 04, 2013, 08:04:02 AM »

What if a person doesn't actually believe, not in the scriptures, not in the soul or even God....

Is it worse to lie and try to convince oneself, almost manicly, that this is real, and just go through the motions

Or is it better to be honest and simply let it all go and let what will be, be

Orthodox Christianity is not a mental exercise. If you go to all the services, fast diligently, pray without ceasing, repent your errors,  develop the virtues and learn to live for others, you make progress. Christianity is experiential..   

Well said. Thanks, I needed that.  Smiley
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Fabio Leite
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« Reply #102 on: July 04, 2013, 10:36:44 AM »

Relax.
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Many Energies, Three Persons, Two Natures, One God.
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