OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 19, 2014, 08:14:45 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Apparent pro-Petrine Easterners...  (Read 8246 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2005, 06:18:12 PM »

Satan hates the Orthodox Church and therefore I doubt that he would appear above one in front of thousandsof Orthodox Christians.

I believe that the apparitions are God allowing the Virgin Mary to be manifest on earth.

The Church on which she appeared officially declared it to be an authentic apparition of Mary.

How could you look at the pictures and not think they look like her?
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
Tabby
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #91 on: January 21, 2005, 06:20:47 PM »



Tabby, in case you read this, Tom does not speak for all (or even most) Orthodox when he writes this. Tom's opinions about the Virgin Mary are not consistent with the teachings of the Orthodox Church.



thank you...for that.

Logged

"If only I could die because then I would not die" ~ St. John of the Cross

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son" (Jn 3;16) "Mary so loved us that she gave her only b
Tabby
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #92 on: January 21, 2005, 06:22:27 PM »



That's absolutely true. And also why I said that this is what I believe at the end of my post.

Still -

Do YOU believe that these apparitions are REALLY Mary?
And if you do, WHY is it always Mary who appears?
And HOW is it even decided that it is Mary?
Do we have a photograph of Mary?
Is she wearing a huge "Mary (the mother of God)" placard sign on her?

Why is it so hard for people to understand that ALL of this nonsene is from the evil one!??!!! Go see the people after they see these apparitions - they become obsessed with the apparition and become worshipers of IT and are distracted from HE WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD!!!!












It isnt always Mary.

Jesus appeared also....to many people....for example to St. Faustina
Logged

"If only I could die because then I would not die" ~ St. John of the Cross

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son" (Jn 3;16) "Mary so loved us that she gave her only b
TomS
Banned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 3,186


"Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono


« Reply #93 on: January 21, 2005, 06:26:52 PM »

Satan hates the Orthodox Church and therefore I doubt that he would appear above one in front of thousandsof Orthodox Christians.

He would if he could distract the faithful by doing so. I mean, isn't THAT what he is trying to do?

Have you not read scripture where it states that Satan will use scripture against you? Have you not read the Fathers and their stories about how even monks have been duped by demons who appear to them in their cells as saints or as angels of light?

How could you look at the pictures and not think they look like her?

Do you have pictures of Mary that we don't know about?

It isnt always Mary. Jesus appeared also....to many people....for example to St. Faustina

Saint Faustina is not an Orthodox Saint. She is the saint of a church which has seperated itself from the True Church of Orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 06:30:25 PM by TomS » Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 30,500



« Reply #94 on: January 21, 2005, 06:30:15 PM »

Quote
How could you look at the pictures and not think they look like her?

First, I'm curious as to what criterion you are using to judge what the Virgin Mary looks like? Second, all I recall when I looked into this stuff were pictures that essentially were big balls of light. Could you link or post a picture which shows so much detail that you can make such assured claims? I have said similar things to what Tom is saying in previous posts on this subject--though with about 1/100 the zeal! Wink I also want to know, what was the fruit of this apparition? How many muslims were converted, for example, or has it caused a demonstrable revival in the Christian community there (and can evidence be given that the apparition was the direct cause of the revival or conversions?) I disagree, seemingly, with Tom on the possibility of apparitions (they have happened and been accepted in Orthodox history), but I think the questions he asks are valid ones that not only can be asked, but should. The Othodox tradition teaches us to use extreme caution when we think that we see an apparition, vision, prophetic dream, etc. If we are cautious out of godly piety, God will not hold it against us. Even the Virgin Mary expressed something akin to awe-filled but reverent disbelief when the angel spoke to her.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 06:32:01 PM by Paradosis » Logged

"By the way he dies as a human being he shows us what it is to be God." - Fr. John Behr
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2005, 06:32:16 PM »

We have the iconography that has dated back from the beginning of the Church, an image of Mary that we also see in the apparitions in Zeitun.

Would you accuse the Pope of Alexandria of declaring that a Satanic apparition is the Mother of God?
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
Tabby
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #96 on: January 21, 2005, 06:44:16 PM »

is there a link to the "orthodox saints"?
Logged

"If only I could die because then I would not die" ~ St. John of the Cross

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son" (Jn 3;16) "Mary so loved us that she gave her only b
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #97 on: January 21, 2005, 06:47:05 PM »

I have a link to the Boondock Saints: www.boondocksaints.com

Very sweet film. Smiley
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 30,500



« Reply #98 on: January 21, 2005, 06:49:16 PM »

Please give me a link or reference so that I can see or read about this 1st century icon, or a later icon that faithfully re-presents a 1st century icon. Please also give me a link to these pictures of the apparition you claim are so detailed? I make no accusations: on the contrary, I am the one asking questions and you are the one jumping to conclusions and making absolute-sounding statements. Perhaps this is the first discussion board you have participated in (other than a Christian rock band board), but normally when people make claims they are expected to give some type of evidence to back up those claims. Maybe the evidence is worthless, maybe it's just plain wrong, maybe it's as biased as all get out, but at least we can have a discussion and know where the other person is coming from, and why they are saying what they say. To be honest Matthew, if you can't provide any evidence for the things you are saying (especially when you are saying things that should be able to be evidenced), it makes it sound like you are making things up as you go along.
Logged

"By the way he dies as a human being he shows us what it is to be God." - Fr. John Behr
TomS
Banned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 3,186


"Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono


« Reply #99 on: January 21, 2005, 06:49:21 PM »

is there a link to the "orthodox saints"?

You can start here:

http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Feasts-and-Saints/

http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/lives.htm

Unlike the RCC, the Orthodox don't create saints at the drop of a hat.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 06:53:02 PM by TomS » Logged
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #100 on: January 21, 2005, 06:58:30 PM »

Please also give me a link to these pictures of the apparition you claim are so detailed?






Photo of the apparition of the Virgin with the Infant Jesus Christ
in Her arms over St. Mary Coptic Orthodox Church, in Zeitoun, Egypt.

Photographs courtesy of Our Lady of Zeitun Online: http://www.zeitun-eg.org/
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #101 on: January 21, 2005, 06:58:57 PM »

is there a link to the "orthodox saints"?

First, all of the pre-schism Roman Catholic saints are also Orthodox saints.  We also venerate post-schism saints.  Here's a link to Orthodox Saints of North America.   
Logged
Tabby
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #102 on: January 21, 2005, 07:00:36 PM »

thank you....and can you tell me off hand if Mary has appared to any of the orthodox saints? 
Logged

"If only I could die because then I would not die" ~ St. John of the Cross

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son" (Jn 3;16) "Mary so loved us that she gave her only b
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #103 on: January 21, 2005, 07:04:11 PM »

Mary appeared above an Orthodox Church in several occasions during the late 1960's...though it is hard for some Orthodox Christians to believe. Wink

A deacon at my church from Ethiopia was actually in Egypt and saw the apparition of Mary firsthand.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 07:05:41 PM by Matthew777 » Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 30,500



« Reply #104 on: January 21, 2005, 07:10:23 PM »

All I see are two patches of light in the shape of a human (definately no details), and... um... Mary with "infant Jesus Christ in her arms"? Apart from my not seeing nearly enough detail to smack myself on the forehead and say "Of course! I can see so clearly that it's Mary now!" I'll have to give some thought to an apparition holding the Baby Jesus...

Tabby, Mary appeared often to St. Seraphim of Sarov, though not in the form of an apparition if I remember correctly. The only example of an apparition that I can recall was one in Constantinople in the 10th century (I think), though I don't recall much about it.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 07:12:07 PM by Paradosis » Logged

"By the way he dies as a human being he shows us what it is to be God." - Fr. John Behr
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #105 on: January 21, 2005, 07:14:11 PM »

thank you....and can you tell me off hand if Mary has appared to any of the orthodox saints?

I don't know.  We have different kinds of miracles.  We have weeping icons.  See Why Icons Weep

Orthodoxy also has the Holy Fire
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #106 on: January 21, 2005, 08:09:26 PM »

The Mother of God appeared to Saint Athanasios the Athonite in his founding of the Great Lavra on Mount Athos. 
Logged
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #107 on: January 21, 2005, 08:11:12 PM »

Thousands of people saw the apparition, it was all over Egyption television and even in American newspapers, and the hierarchy of the Coptic Church declared the apparitions to be valid and of Theotokos. I'm willing to take their word for it.
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
Augustine
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 565

pray for me, please


WWW
« Reply #108 on: January 22, 2005, 10:33:55 PM »

Anastasios,

Quote
By the strict interpretation, yes.  There are many of our bishops however that are willing to give you guys the benefit of the doubt (moreso than the Catholics) so I do not make statements against your Church's sacramental status (especially since I like your church so much).

Doesn't this make you as "subjectivist" as Matthew?  "...especially since I like your church so much..."

Logged
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #109 on: January 22, 2005, 10:36:38 PM »

I am not being subjectivist, I am going by the established teachings of my church in its relationship to EO and RC.
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
Tags: Petrine Primacy That Irenaeus quote 
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.072 seconds with 47 queries.