Author Topic: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion  (Read 8753 times)

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Offline DuxI

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2013, 07:51:58 PM »
copts can marry their cousins (first cousins).
my close friend did it, and it was not a big deal at all.
 8)

When the children will come, then someone can say if it is big deal or not, not before that, because the children will feel the most that, especially if you know what diseases and disabilites children of such unions suffer...History is filled with such examples, the illnesses that were common in the family of Pharaohs, the Habsburg destiny...

Lord have mercy!

Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2013, 09:27:25 PM »
Hello,

Is it possible in the Orthodox religion for a person to marry their mother's brother's daughter?

I do not plan to do this but just asking if such a marriage would be recognised by the church.
Yes, if it is allowed by the state (most in the West don't, or didn't until recently).  The Russian Church and others perhaps won't marry cousins, but I don't know if they can deny a marriage done by an Antiochian priest.

Yes, there are canons are against it, but they are simply ignored in the Middle East, as we don't share European hang ups on this.  It's not like the canons are dogma, particularly, as here, where they contradict Scripture.

I live near Birmingham Children's Hospital and too frequently see the tragic fruits of not having these 'hang ups'. The incidence of severe and complex genetic disorders among those communities were marriage between first cousins is common is disproportionate to their numbers in the population at large. This is backed up by my clinical experience before retiring and research.

In some communities the driving force behind such a practice is to keep wealth within the extended family, according to sociologists. The reality is here it results in burdens on the families, lives blighted and a burden on health and other services.

The suggestion here is that first cousin couples should seek genetic counselling before trying for children. It seems EO canons on the subject are sound and the practice has too many risks to recommend it, surely?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 09:27:51 PM by Santagranddad »

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2013, 10:41:03 PM »
copts can marry their cousins (first cousins).
my close friend did it, and it was not a big deal at all.
 8)

When the children will come, then someone can say if it is big deal or not, not before that, because the children will feel the most that, especially if you know what diseases and disabilites children of such unions suffer...History is filled with such examples, the illnesses that were common in the family of Pharaohs, the Habsburg destiny...

Lord have mercy!

Obviously you're not a golfer . . .

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2013, 10:43:52 PM »
Hello,

Is it possible in the Orthodox religion for a person to marry their mother's brother's daughter?

I do not plan to do this but just asking if such a marriage would be recognised by the church.
Yes, if it is allowed by the state (most in the West don't, or didn't until recently).  The Russian Church and others perhaps won't marry cousins, but I don't know if they can deny a marriage done by an Antiochian priest.

Yes, there are canons are against it, but they are simply ignored in the Middle East, as we don't share European hang ups on this.  It's not like the canons are dogma, particularly, as here, where they contradict Scripture.

I live near Birmingham Children's Hospital and too frequently see the tragic fruits of not having these 'hang ups'.

No you don't. Unless you are living in terribly closed communities or around very excellent racialists like the Ashkenazim.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 10:44:07 PM by orthonorm »

Offline Punch

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2013, 11:25:06 PM »
Hello,

Is it possible in the Orthodox religion for a person to marry their mother's brother's daughter?

I do not plan to do this but just asking if such a marriage would be recognised by the church.
Yes, if it is allowed by the state (most in the West don't, or didn't until recently).  The Russian Church and others perhaps won't marry cousins, but I don't know if they can deny a marriage done by an Antiochian priest.

Yes, there are canons are against it, but they are simply ignored in the Middle East, as we don't share European hang ups on this.  It's not like the canons are dogma, particularly, as here, where they contradict Scripture.

I live near Birmingham Children's Hospital and too frequently see the tragic fruits of not having these 'hang ups'. The incidence of severe and complex genetic disorders among those communities were marriage between first cousins is common is disproportionate to their numbers in the population at large. This is backed up by my clinical experience before retiring and research.

In some communities the driving force behind such a practice is to keep wealth within the extended family, according to sociologists. The reality is here it results in burdens on the families, lives blighted and a burden on health and other services.

The suggestion here is that first cousin couples should seek genetic counselling before trying for children. It seems EO canons on the subject are sound and the practice has too many risks to recommend it, surely?

I've seen the same thing among some of the Arabs that I have known.  Nothing like strumming banjos or anything, but rather a disproportionate incidence of certain birth defects.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2013, 11:38:36 PM »
Hello,

Is it possible in the Orthodox religion for a person to marry their mother's brother's daughter?

I do not plan to do this but just asking if such a marriage would be recognised by the church.
Yes, if it is allowed by the state (most in the West don't, or didn't until recently).  The Russian Church and others perhaps won't marry cousins, but I don't know if they can deny a marriage done by an Antiochian priest.

Yes, there are canons are against it, but they are simply ignored in the Middle East, as we don't share European hang ups on this.  It's not like the canons are dogma, particularly, as here, where they contradict Scripture.

I live near Birmingham Children's Hospital and too frequently see the tragic fruits of not having these 'hang ups'. The incidence of severe and complex genetic disorders among those communities were marriage between first cousins is common is disproportionate to their numbers in the population at large. This is backed up by my clinical experience before retiring and research.

In some communities the driving force behind such a practice is to keep wealth within the extended family, according to sociologists. The reality is here it results in burdens on the families, lives blighted and a burden on health and other services.

The suggestion here is that first cousin couples should seek genetic counselling before trying for children. It seems EO canons on the subject are sound and the practice has too many risks to recommend it, surely?

I've seen the same thing among some of the Arabs that I have known.  Nothing like strumming banjos or anything, but rather a disproportionate incidence of certain birth defects.

Strumming banjos . . .

Awesome.

Offline Punch

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2013, 12:09:32 AM »
Hello,

Is it possible in the Orthodox religion for a person to marry their mother's brother's daughter?

I do not plan to do this but just asking if such a marriage would be recognised by the church.
Yes, if it is allowed by the state (most in the West don't, or didn't until recently).  The Russian Church and others perhaps won't marry cousins, but I don't know if they can deny a marriage done by an Antiochian priest.

Yes, there are canons are against it, but they are simply ignored in the Middle East, as we don't share European hang ups on this.  It's not like the canons are dogma, particularly, as here, where they contradict Scripture.

I live near Birmingham Children's Hospital and too frequently see the tragic fruits of not having these 'hang ups'. The incidence of severe and complex genetic disorders among those communities were marriage between first cousins is common is disproportionate to their numbers in the population at large. This is backed up by my clinical experience before retiring and research.

In some communities the driving force behind such a practice is to keep wealth within the extended family, according to sociologists. The reality is here it results in burdens on the families, lives blighted and a burden on health and other services.

The suggestion here is that first cousin couples should seek genetic counselling before trying for children. It seems EO canons on the subject are sound and the practice has too many risks to recommend it, surely?

I've seen the same thing among some of the Arabs that I have known.  Nothing like strumming banjos or anything, but rather a disproportionate incidence of certain birth defects.

Strumming banjos . . .

Awesome.

Too many people think that everyone that is inbred looks like someone out of the movie Deliverance.  All that I have seen are more subtle issues.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2013, 12:01:23 PM »
A hardy chart to keep track of things (the red boxes show the amount of genes shared.  No, I don't know why mothers, grandmothers, etc. don't have a red box):
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2013, 04:51:02 PM »
A hardy chart to keep track of things (the red boxes show the amount of genes shared.  No, I don't know why mothers, grandmothers, etc. don't have a red box):


Not really having a family, I never understood the whole x cousin y removed thing. Someone finally gave me an equation.

Problem solved.

Have you seen the consanguinity charts / cousin calculators? They are probably near that wiki page . . . let me look.


Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: Marriage Between Cousins In Orthodox Religion
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2013, 08:28:25 AM »
yes, why do some cultures find it bad and others ok?
i used to think it was bad coz i was brought up in a culture that has european influence (too close genetically) but it is allowed in the old testament.
so i stopped being biased against it when i realised i did not have a good reason to condemn it.

I don't like it at all. I guess I understand why it's done in Egypt, especially the villages. But for everywhere else, it should be forbidden by the Church.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 08:31:26 AM by CoptoGeek »
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