Topic: Patriarch Ilia II calls for ban on "gay rights march" "Gay-Rights Rally"

[Kerdy]

Not "one man" but 30k.

I realize you have absolutely no idea why I am saying this, but thank you.

[mike]

Not "one man" but 30k.

I realize you have absolutely no idea why I am saying this, but thank you.

I have some ideas but cannot share them in Public Fora.

[Kerdy]

Not "one man" but 30k.

I realize you have absolutely no idea why I am saying this, but thank you.

I have some ideas but cannot share them in Public Fora.

In that case, they are all incorrect.  If any were correct, you could easily share in the Public Fora.  With that, I leave this thread and it's tunnel vision. 

May the Lord have mercy on us all.

[NicholasMyra]

Incarnated Son of God Himself cleansed the Temple of money changers.

He didn't incite a violent mob, he stirred up the animals and chased people around.

When an angry mob wanted to persecute a sexual sinner, he stopped them. Or do you not remember?

God the Father Himself destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. I don't think any of us loves human being more then Creator Himself does.

"Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

"...the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, 'Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?' But he turned and rebuked them."

Believe or not he also said: don't turn your the other chick and fight against those who slap you on one side.

Who cares?

Saint king of Georgia David the builder cleansed the Church of gay priests and likes and he was very cruel against them. He did it in the name of Christ. We can't even come closer to his sainthood.

"Saint' doesn't mean "morally right". We've been over this.

There's a lot of misrepresentation of Orthodoxy going on today. Christian first of all is supposed to be a solider of Christ.

I think you are confused about what that means. Perhaps being the soldier of one of your land's old gods would be more fitting:


One can have all the blood one wants.

[Santagranddad]

Sexual acts between people of the same sex is gravely sinful but nowhere in The New Testament is mob violence supported or condoned. Our Lord's actions and words in the Temple were considered and measured. No comparison can surely be made between the events in the Temple and Tbilisi?

While opposing the ever increasing demands of the Homosexual activist lobby, 'Queer bashing' is repellent. Trying to work out the sequence of events in Tbilisi even after watching lengthy videos of the sad events leaves me perplexed and disquieted. Understanding very little of the spoken language and none the written doesn't help.

Does anyone know what the hierarchy have said following these events?

[minasoliman]

It’s ok.  You can turn an old man who can hardly swing a chair into the criminal of the decade and ignore the public, blatant, “in your face” actions of the homosexuals who want to parade around and make fools of themselves.  It’s ok.  It’s what people do these days.  Cry for the evils of the world and spit at those who want better.  I really enjoy how people focus on actions of those who want no parade and ignore everything else.  A rational thinker would hope you would call out the wrongs on both sides, but perhaps that is asking too much from Christians these days.  I don’t know.  I am looking forward to the prostitutes pride parade where they hand out discount coupons.  Who thinks that is a good idea?  How about Drug Dealer Pride Parades?  Spouse abuser pride day anyone?  And you wonder why people feel the need to go as far as they do in protest.

Yes, but shouldn't a priest be an example to his people?

Have you heard of the Maspero Massacre in Egypt?  26 Copts were killed by bullets and run over by army vehicles in Maspero district of Cairo.  Copts started getting angry and would fight back and try to hurt any soldier involved.  One soldier (Muslim) asked protection from a Coptic priest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvUUBg4Xmho

Don't you think that a Coptic priest seeing the mangled and severed bodies around him would be justified to pick up a chair and throw at his tank?

So I ask you, what would you do to a parade of "Drug Dealer Pride" people or "Spousal Abusers"?  Would you pick up a chair and break their cars?

Shame on the Georgian priest!  Shame!

[Tommelomsky]

It’s ok.  You can turn an old man who can hardly swing a chair into the criminal of the decade and ignore the public, blatant, “in your face” actions of the homosexuals who want to parade around and make fools of themselves.  It’s ok.  It’s what people do these days.  Cry for the evils of the world and spit at those who want better.  I really enjoy how people focus on actions of those who want no parade and ignore everything else.  A rational thinker would hope you would call out the wrongs on both sides, but perhaps that is asking too much from Christians these days.  I don’t know.  I am looking forward to the prostitutes pride parade where they hand out discount coupons.  Who thinks that is a good idea?  How about Drug Dealer Pride Parades?  Spouse abuser pride day anyone?  And you wonder why people feel the need to go as far as they do in protest.

Yes, but shouldn't a priest be an example to his people?

Have you heard of the Maspero Massacre in Egypt?  26 Copts were killed by bullets and run over by army vehicles in Maspero district of Cairo.  Copts started getting angry and would fight back and try to hurt any soldier involved.  One soldier (Muslim) asked protection from a Coptic priest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvUUBg4Xmho

Don't you think that a Coptic priest seeing the mangled and severed bodies around him would be justified to pick up a chair and throw at his tank?

So I ask you, what would you do to a parade of "Drug Dealer Pride" people or "Spousal Abusers"?  Would you pick up a chair and break their cars?

Shame on the Georgian priest!  Shame!

Yes, but remember: He is only a human being. Good or bad choice made.
We should pray for that priest and every priest on this very planet.

[Orthodox11]

Shame on the Georgian priest!  Shame!

We don't know if he's a priest. He's wearing monastic attire.

[minasoliman]

It’s ok.  You can turn an old man who can hardly swing a chair into the criminal of the decade and ignore the public, blatant, “in your face” actions of the homosexuals who want to parade around and make fools of themselves.  It’s ok.  It’s what people do these days.  Cry for the evils of the world and spit at those who want better.  I really enjoy how people focus on actions of those who want no parade and ignore everything else.  A rational thinker would hope you would call out the wrongs on both sides, but perhaps that is asking too much from Christians these days.  I don’t know.  I am looking forward to the prostitutes pride parade where they hand out discount coupons.  Who thinks that is a good idea?  How about Drug Dealer Pride Parades?  Spouse abuser pride day anyone?  And you wonder why people feel the need to go as far as they do in protest.

Yes, but shouldn't a priest be an example to his people?

Have you heard of the Maspero Massacre in Egypt?  26 Copts were killed by bullets and run over by army vehicles in Maspero district of Cairo.  Copts started getting angry and would fight back and try to hurt any soldier involved.  One soldier (Muslim) asked protection from a Coptic priest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvUUBg4Xmho

Don't you think that a Coptic priest seeing the mangled and severed bodies around him would be justified to pick up a chair and throw at his tank?

So I ask you, what would you do to a parade of "Drug Dealer Pride" people or "Spousal Abusers"?  Would you pick up a chair and break their cars?

Shame on the Georgian priest!  Shame!

Yes, but remember: He is only a human being. Good or bad choice made.
We should pray for that priest and every priest on this very planet.

Shame on the Georgian priest!  Shame!

We don't know if he's a priest. He's wearing monastic attire.

If he's a priest, he should be held to a higher standard.  Deposition or excommunication does not mean we won't pray for him.

Do we not remember St. James:  "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." (3:1)

And a monk who's dead to the world, why join the world in violence?

[Tommelomsky]

If he was-is a priest, he should indeed have a higher standard. But the way our world has become today, even this..the unthinkable could (and perhaps has) happened.

It is in these times the prayers are so needed. Violence solves nothing (never has and never will).

[NightOwl]

Has the Patriarch issued any statement condemning the violence at the rally?

[minasoliman]

If he was-is a priest, he should indeed have a higher standard. But the way our world has become today, even this..the unthinkable could (and perhaps has) happened.

It is in these times the prayers are so needed. Violence solves nothing (never has and never will).

I'm not saying beat up the priest.  That would be hypocritical.

Yes, the world has and always has been a perverted and violent place to live.  But if a priest in a country where he is the minority can protect and love persecutors from the violence of those persecuted, how much more a priest or a monk in a country where he is part of the majority to protect and love the perverted sinners!

Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.

[Cantor Krishnich]

We must understand the culture and politics of Georgia before saying anything. Georgians are pious Orthodox Christians who seriously want to preserve traditional religious ethics in their society with the Church as the center of society. His Holiness is well loved by the faithful including many politicians and he often counsels Georgia acting as spiritual guardian, this is his duty, Eis Polla Eti Despota! Many years to the faithful Georgians who are pushing those who seek to harm the traditional society out of Georgia. Gay-pride parades do not belong in the streets of a religious Orthodox country such as Georgia. Both Homosexuality and Pride are terrible sins and a celebration/parade in honor of such monstrosity would be opposite of Orthodox teachings. The physical fighting between the Orthodox and the Gay-pride supporters was bad and the priest was not supposed to be using a chair as a weapon but the counter-protest was good.  

[minasoliman]

We must understand the culture and politics of Georgia before saying anything. Georgians are pious Orthodox Christians who seriously want to preserve traditional religious ethics in their society with the Church as the center of society. His Holiness is well loved by the faithful including many politicians and he often counsels Georgia acting as spiritual guardian, this is his duty, Eis Polla Eti Despota! Many years to the faithful Georgians who are pushing those who seek to harm the traditional society out of Georgia. Gay-pride parades do not belong in the streets of a religious Orthodox country such as Georgia. Both Homosexuality and Pride are terrible sins and a celebration/parade in honor of such monstrosity would be opposite of Orthodox teachings. The physical fighting between the Orthodox and the Gay-pride supporters was bad and the priest was not supposed to be using a chair as a weapon but the counter-protest was good.   

The idea of the counter-protest is good.  The violence however marred it, and made the protesters look good.  Therefore, I don't see anything good out of it.

It's understandable that Georgians have great love for their country to keep it sanctified, but where is the peace that comes with holiness?

[NightOwl]

We must understand the culture and politics of Georgia before saying anything. Georgians are pious Orthodox Christians who seriously want to preserve traditional religious ethics in their society with the Church as the center of society. His Holiness is well loved by the faithful including many politicians and he often counsels Georgia acting as spiritual guardian, this is his duty, Eis Polla Eti Despota! Many years to the faithful Georgians who are pushing those who seek to harm the traditional society out of Georgia. Gay-pride parades do not belong in the streets of a religious Orthodox country such as Georgia. Both Homosexuality and Pride are terrible sins and a celebration/parade in honor of such monstrosity would be opposite of Orthodox teachings. The physical fighting between the Orthodox and the Gay-pride supporters was bad and the priest was not supposed to be using a chair as a weapon but the counter-protest was good.   

The idea of the counter-protest is good.  The violence however marred it, and made the protesters look good.  Therefore, I don't see anything good out of it.

It's understandable that Georgians have great love for their country to keep it sanctified, but where is the peace that comes with holiness?

Well said, I agree-it's the violence that accompanied the counter-protest which is truly disgraceful and embarrassing for the Orthodox world, rather than the counter-protest itself. Hopefully more Georgian hierarchs will speak out against this and future violence. Maybe they would do well to reflect on the words of the 16th century Patriarch Metrophanes III of Constantinople regarding violence against Jews in Crete:

"Injustice ... regardless to whomever acted upon or performed against, is still injustice. The unjust person is never relieved of the responsibility of these acts under the pretext that the injustice is done against a heterodox and not to a believer. As our Lord Jesus Christ in the Gospels said do not oppress or accuse anyone falsely; do not make any distinction or give room to the believers to injure those of another belief."

[scamandrius]

Good for you!  You know how to use photoshop!

I didn't make it, it's from Georgian media.

Next time include a web citation per oc.net rules of conduct so that you are not mistakenly blamed for its creation.

[orthonorm]

Nothing says love like all of the above.

[Antonis]

Sexual acts between people of the same sex is gravely sinful but nowhere in The New Testament is mob violence supported or condoned. Our Lord's actions and words in the Temple were considered and measured. No comparison can surely be made between the events in the Temple and Tbilisi?

While opposing the ever increasing demands of the Homosexual activist lobby, 'Queer bashing' is repellent. Trying to work out the sequence of events in Tbilisi even after watching lengthy videos of the sad events leaves me perplexed and disquieted. Understanding very little of the spoken language and none the written doesn't help.

Does anyone know what the hierarchy have said following these events?

Patriarch Ilia II comments:

http://www.pravmir.com/georgian-patriarch-calls-on-supporters-opponents-of-gay-movement-to-pray-for-each-other/

[augustin717]

Nice. He could have said this beforeinstead of calling for a straight parade or whatever it was.

[ativan]

Real question is: who loves gay people more? those who support their unchecked behavior and those who promote popularization of it or those who oppose it?

Those who try to rip them to shreds with bare hands propably.

I've supplied important information and asked some questions that need to be answered. Instead of answering you chose to  ridicule me. This is how you argue.

[ativan]

There's a lot of misrepresentation of Orthodoxy going on today. Christian first of all is supposed to be a solider of Christ.

Sure, but being a soldier of Christ means entering into spiritual warfare against the devil and the passions. It does not mean using physical violence, especially when there's absolutely no need for it. The sword of the Christian is the Jesus Prayer, as the prayers for tonsuring a monk makes very clear.

Yes, for sure. But being a soldier of Christ also means to physically oppose enemy with every means possible. This is the type of Orthodoxy that has been practiced in Georgia since the time of its conversion. 3 Great saints who founded Iveron Monastery of mount Athos would engage in battle, at the front-line, against enemy while they were monks! This approach has been repeated many times.

In reality, you can't teach us what is correct way of being Orthodox. We've been Orthodox for 2000 years, officially since 334. We have not converted to anything else. If we allowed gay parades in any way, today they would request gay marriage. This has been proved many times already. I do not say this out of pride. I say what I and my countryman feel is true along. Of course, there are minority who does not think so and who think differently but those are fortunately small minority and there opinion in this regard does not count.

[ativan]

No, unnecessary violent attacks should not be honoured even when they're perpetrated by the people on the right side of an argument.

It was not unnecessary. Contrary to your statement it was very necessary. We now much better what is necessary for us, believe me. How can you judge from the side when you now nothing about Georgia?

I'm repeating things which apparently was not noticed in my first post here. The attempts to hold those types of parades has been tried several times before and all the time it was stopped by violence. Then I'm asking you: why do you want to persevere and try another such whatever while you know for sure that it will fail? That people will be really angry about it? Why do you want to still hold it while the day prior you've been warned by Church and by people? Who would be responsible if somebody died on so called "anti-homophobia protester" side? I'm not asking rhetorical questions. I really want to know what is your answer to those questions.

More to the point. 3 Georgian soldiers died in Afghanistan and there bodies just arrived the day prior to this date. Country was mourning. They new it but they still dared to come out in the streets to expose their behavior. They wanted to show to the world how they are oppressed and they got what they wanted. Everybody should be happy now and not engaging in pointless philosophical arguments.

If this will make you happy, I will say that though we have all the paraphernalia of 21st century our mentality is still back centuries behind. And I wish we never come out of it. I wish we get closer and closer to our ancestors.

[mike]

Well said, I agree-it's the violence that accompanied the counter-protest which is truly disgraceful and embarrassing for the Orthodox world, rather than the counter-protest itself.

The violence in such cases is normal for the sc. Orthodox world.

[Santagranddad]

Well said, I agree-it's the violence that accompanied the counter-protest which is truly disgraceful and embarrassing for the Orthodox world, rather than the counter-protest itself.

The violence in such cases is normal for the sc. Orthodox world.

I for one for one find your comment at odds with your involvement on an Orthodox Christian forum. In some other environments it might lead to a motion of no confidence. And can you substantiate your assertion?

[mike]

I for one for one find your comment at odds with your involvement on an Orthodox Christian forum.

Why? It's true. Every gay manifestation in Eastern Europe I've heard ends up being attacked by violent "religious" mob. I would be surprised if for once it wasn't.

Serbia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znp8kTGyRx0

Ukraine: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2147385/Horrific-moment-thugs-attack-head-gay-rights-group-Ukraine-forced-cancel-parade-hijacked-neo-Nazi-zealots.html

Russia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDOV6qvizmA

Lithuania: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXwkj1pcexM

[Orthodox11]

Why? It's true. Every gay manifestation in Eastern Europe I've heard ends up being attacked by violent "religious" mob. I would be surprised if for once it wasn't.

Perhaps it's a post-Soviet phenomenon rather than an Orthodox one?

[Romaios]

In an appeal to Christians to "peacefully protest" a gay parade in Chișinău the past Sunday, a Moladvian priest writes:

All that is needed is for 50.000 families (men, women and kids, holding hands) to cross the Ștefan cel Mare Boulevard and greet the bystanders and journalists with "Christ is risen!". That will be enough...

The organizers will need to be extra-careful, because there will be provocations and people who will try to stage altercations and acts of violence. Christians are forbidden to hit or spit anyone! We don't hate homosexuals - only their sin.

Source

There's a similar appeal from Metropolitan Vladimir.

[mike]

Why? It's true. Every gay manifestation in Eastern Europe I've heard ends up being attacked by violent "religious" mob. I would be surprised if for once it wasn't.

Perhaps it's a post-Soviet phenomenon rather than an Orthodox one?

Black Hundreds were also post-Soviet?

[NightOwl]

Well said, I agree-it's the violence that accompanied the counter-protest which is truly disgraceful and embarrassing for the Orthodox world, rather than the counter-protest itself.

The violence in such cases is normal for the sc. Orthodox world.

There are many sins endemic among the Orthodox as with people of other faiths. Something about The Fall, remember? I'm not sure what your point is- I guess you're just trying to be provocative.

[JoeS2]

I for one for one find your comment at odds with your involvement on an Orthodox Christian forum.

Why? It's true. Every gay manifestation in Eastern Europe I've heard ends up being attacked by violent "religious" mob. I would be surprised if for once it wasn't.

Serbia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znp8kTGyRx0

Ukraine: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2147385/Horrific-moment-thugs-attack-head-gay-rights-group-Ukraine-forced-cancel-parade-hijacked-neo-Nazi-zealots.html

Russia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDOV6qvizmA

Lithuania: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXwkj1pcexM

Why oh why do the Gays feel the need to rub our heterosexual faces in the mud just to propagate their agenda?  If you want to be gay, OK, if you are gay Ok, but don't push your abomination in my face ,,,,,,,thank you...  Whats wrong in keeping your preference to yourselves?

[Orthodox11]

It's people like these that should be excommunicated.

From what I understand, Mama Basili, who was one of the first to break police lines at the gay rights rally, had already been deposed by the Georgian Church for a previous act of violence and joined one of the Old Calendarist groups upon his release from prison.

[minasoliman]

It's people like these that should be excommunicated.

From what I understand, Mama Basili, who was one of the first to break police lines at the gay rights rally, had already been deposed by the Georgian Church for a previous act of violence and joined one of the Old Calendarist groups upon his release from prison.

+1

I praise His Holiness for replying and condemning the violence. It puts some hope that people like Ativan do in fact not represent the Georgian Church.

[augustin717]

In Romania one of the main organizers of the so-called "marches for normality" (also involved with some church run orphanage, IIRC) has been recently outed for his own, say , out of norm preferences. He liked little kiddies.  Certainly not what those that mindlessly spew the phrase "traditional family" have in mind. although, ironically, many "traditional families" were like that.
http://www.evz.ro/detalii/stiri/lider-al-noii-drepte-filma-copii-in-ipostaze-pornografice-1022426.html
Where he worked and was taking the pictures:
http://sfstelian.org/

[mike]

Well said, I agree-it's the violence that accompanied the counter-protest which is truly disgraceful and embarrassing for the Orthodox world, rather than the counter-protest itself.

The violence in such cases is normal for the sc. Orthodox world.

There are many sins endemic among the Orthodox as with people of other faiths. Something about The Fall, remember? I'm not sure what your point is- I guess you're just trying to be provocative.

I'm trying to disprove untrue statements that such things are uncommon some people write here.

[minasoliman]

I for one for one find your comment at odds with your involvement on an Orthodox Christian forum.

Why? It's true. Every gay manifestation in Eastern Europe I've heard ends up being attacked by violent "religious" mob. I would be surprised if for once it wasn't.

Serbia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znp8kTGyRx0

Ukraine: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2147385/Horrific-moment-thugs-attack-head-gay-rights-group-Ukraine-forced-cancel-parade-hijacked-neo-Nazi-zealots.html

Russia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDOV6qvizmA

Lithuania: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXwkj1pcexM

It's quite telling that these are all places where either Orthodox at the majority or have a strong presence.

[Alpo]

More to the point. 3 Georgian soldiers died in Afghanistan and there bodies just arrived the day prior to this date. Country was mourning. They new it but they still dared to come out in the streets to expose their behavior. They wanted to show to the world how they are oppressed and they got what they wanted. Everybody should be happy now and not engaging in pointless philosophical arguments.

Wait, what? Using freedom of expression is a legitimate reason for violence?

[Balthasar]

We must understand the culture and politics of Georgia before saying anything. Georgians are pious Orthodox Christians who seriously want to preserve traditional religious ethics in their society with the Church as the center of society. His Holiness is well loved by the faithful including many politicians and he often counsels Georgia acting as spiritual guardian, this is his duty, Eis Polla Eti Despota! Many years to the faithful Georgians who are pushing those who seek to harm the traditional society out of Georgia. Gay-pride parades do not belong in the streets of a religious Orthodox country such as Georgia. Both Homosexuality and Pride are terrible sins and a celebration/parade in honor of such monstrosity would be opposite of Orthodox teachings. The physical fighting between the Orthodox and the Gay-pride supporters was bad and the priest was not supposed to be using a chair as a weapon but the counter-protest was good.  

Absolutely right!

I know there are some non-Christians on this forum, but, still, It is depressing to see "Christians" judging their own brothers repeatedly. In terms of real "violence", it's peanuts what our Georgian brothers demonstrated in the video. They have not killed nobody. It's easy, and at times luckewarmish, to sit behind a computer and comment with ignorance. I wonder how would folks react when some of these sodomite criminals live next to them burning them with microwave radiation, or sending them HIV-infected things to them. Yes! This is terrible to say, but it's this what's happening to many Christian leaders, Christians in many parts of the developed world. Google it! Until recently these sodomite groups were classified as dangerous criminal groups with the police forces of Austria, Switzerland and Germany. 
There are two groups of people at the moment who have been used by the evils of this world to destroy Christianity: that are Islmists and Sodomites! If you care and love, as you say, these folks, please tell them to stop being Muslims or Gays, tell them to halt their anti-Christian agenda, tell them to undergo some kind of spiritual healing, tell them, otherwise, they are heading to hell.

Bless the tough Georgians, and please never judge your own brothers and sisters!

[augustin717]

I wonder how would folks react when some of these sodomite criminals live next to them burning them with microwave radiation]I wonder how would folks react when some of these sodomite criminals live next to them burning them with microwave radiation

that's what they have been doing to you?

[Santagranddad]

Well said, I agree-it's the violence that accompanied the counter-protest which is truly disgraceful and embarrassing for the Orthodox world, rather than the counter-protest itself.

The violence in such cases is normal for the sc. Orthodox world.

There are many sins endemic among the Orthodox as with people of other faiths. Something about The Fall, remember? I'm not sure what your point is- I guess you're just trying to be provocative.

I'm trying to disprove untrue statements that such things are uncommon some people write here.

Pardon? I don't understand your point?

[mike]

I wonder how would folks react when some of these sodomite criminals live next to them burning them with microwave radiation, or sending them HIV-infected things to them.

LOL

Bless the tough Georgians, and please never judge your own brothers and sisters!

Like you judged homosexuals?

[Santagranddad]

This thread reminds now of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'. But infinitely less amusing.

[NightOwl]

Well said, I agree-it's the violence that accompanied the counter-protest which is truly disgraceful and embarrassing for the Orthodox world, rather than the counter-protest itself.

The violence in such cases is normal for the sc. Orthodox world.

There are many sins endemic among the Orthodox as with people of other faiths. Something about The Fall, remember? I'm not sure what your point is- I guess you're just trying to be provocative.

I'm trying to disprove untrue statements that such things are uncommon some people write here.

OK... who's arguing it's uncommon?

[ialmisry]

I for one for one find your comment at odds with your involvement on an Orthodox Christian forum.

Why? It's true. Every gay manifestation in Eastern Europe I've heard ends up being attacked by violent "religious" mob. I would be surprised if for once it wasn't.

Serbia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znp8kTGyRx0

Ukraine: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2147385/Horrific-moment-thugs-attack-head-gay-rights-group-Ukraine-forced-cancel-parade-hijacked-neo-Nazi-zealots.html

Russia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDOV6qvizmA

Lithuania: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXwkj1pcexM

It's quite telling that these are all places where either Orthodox at the majority or have a strong presence.

telling what exactly?

[augustin717]

This thread reminds now of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'. But infinitely less amusing.

we get it your victorian sensibiities have been gravely offended. someone fetch the salts.

[ialmisry]

More to the point. 3 Georgian soldiers died in Afghanistan and there bodies just arrived the day prior to this date. Country was mourning. They new it but they still dared to come out in the streets to expose their behavior. They wanted to show to the world how they are oppressed and they got what they wanted. Everybody should be happy now and not engaging in pointless philosophical arguments.

Wait, what? Using freedom of expression is a legitimate reason for violence?

It is called "fighting words."