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Author Topic: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions  (Read 2437 times) Average Rating: 0
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TheTrisagion
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« Reply #90 on: May 15, 2013, 08:15:46 AM »

I am opposed to the death penalty in all situations. 
As am I
As Christians, we ought to be quick to show mercy and slow to pass harsh judgements on others, even if they committed horrific acts.  Perhaps the rest of his life in prison will give him much needed time to reflect on the sins he committed and live the remainder of his life in repentance.  He may not be showing sorrow for his actions now, but none of us know how God might work on his heart.

Let us commit the memories of the children and woman who died to Christ.

It makes no sense to say "We're against killing (abortion) BUT we're for killing (death penalty)" when the reasons for being against abortion rest on it being the taking of the life of a human being

I'm confused, are you disputing something I'm saying?  I think we are in agreement from what I can see.
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« Reply #91 on: May 15, 2013, 09:01:44 AM »

The fact that you see it as murder doesn't make it so.  That is your opinion.

I hope the irony of this statement is not lost on you.

Not at all.  Love your signature.
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« Reply #92 on: May 15, 2013, 09:15:48 AM »

 Looking at the Seventh commandment, we see that it is a prohibition against murder but not killing.
Such sophistry aside, according to Christ we are guilty of murder in this thread.


 It isn't sophistry when my entire argument is considered.  And only a few posting here would be guilty of murder.
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« Reply #93 on: May 15, 2013, 09:47:31 AM »

Quote
So you can't have an abortion, but you can execute the post-born.

Interesting
Although I dont believe in the death penalty, I do understand why folks would want it for this guy. There is a point to be made about justice being done, but I just dont believe that the death penalty really does anything good.

I wont bash folks who think otherwise however...I used to believe in the death penalty for very valid reasons.

PP
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« Reply #94 on: May 15, 2013, 09:51:47 AM »

I am opposed to the death penalty in all situations.  
As am I
As Christians, we ought to be quick to show mercy and slow to pass harsh judgements on others, even if they committed horrific acts.  Perhaps the rest of his life in prison will give him much needed time to reflect on the sins he committed and live the remainder of his life in repentance.  He may not be showing sorrow for his actions now, but none of us know how God might work on his heart.

Let us commit the memories of the children and woman who died to Christ.

It makes no sense to say "We're against killing (abortion) BUT we're for killing (death penalty)" when the reasons for being against abortion rest on it being the taking of the life of a human being

I was always under the impression that "the reasons for being against abortion rest on it being the taking of the life of a human being"  who is totally vulnerable, totally innocent, totally inculpable of any kind of crime whatsoever.  Or did I get that wrong, too?

99% of the time I am against the death penalty, and the other 1% I struggle with.  But, I can't help but agree with Punch where he says that keeping human beings in cages is barbaric and apart from segregating them from the rest of society, useless and grossly expensive.
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TheTrisagion
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« Reply #95 on: May 15, 2013, 10:04:31 AM »

I understand the argument for the death penalty, and I don't feel that it is immoral to sentence someone to death if the situation would warrant it, but I think it is far better to grant mercy, allow them to live and perhaps seek repentance in this life.  I can't imagine a situation where killing someone that is imprisoned is a better option than giving them time to repent of their sins.
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« Reply #96 on: May 15, 2013, 10:20:46 AM »

I understand the argument for the death penalty, and I don't feel that it is immoral to sentence someone to death if the situation would warrant it, but I think it is far better to grant mercy, allow them to live and perhaps seek repentance in this life.  I can't imagine a situation where killing someone that is imprisoned is a better option than giving them time to repent of their sins.

I agree. It's not about what somebody deserves, it's about honoring the very image of God and allowing them time to repent as you said. If the death penalty was about what somebody deserved, then the method of death should be commensurate with the methods of murder they committed. Gosnell deserves to be painfully killed in the same manner that he killed his victims. But I deserve the same, and that's not false modesty or hyperbole. And I won't go into any more detail than that. I oppose the death penalty not because it is on the same moral level as abortion, but because it deliberately destroys the very image of God. As I have asked before, if we dare not desecrate holy icons made from wood and paint, then why would we dare to destroy living icons created with the very breath of God?


Selam
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« Reply #97 on: May 15, 2013, 10:26:06 AM »

I understand the argument for the death penalty, and I don't feel that it is immoral to sentence someone to death if the situation would warrant it, but I think it is far better to grant mercy, allow them to live and perhaps seek repentance in this life.  I can't imagine a situation where killing someone that is imprisoned is a better option than giving them time to repent of their sins.

I agree. It's not about what somebody deserves, it's about honoring the very image of God and allowing them time to repent as you said. If the death penalty was about what somebody deserved, then the method of death should be commensurate with the methods of murder they committed. Gosnell deserves to be painfully killed in the same manner that he killed his victims. But I deserve the same, and that's not false modesty or hyperbole. And I won't go into any more detail than that. I oppose the death penalty not because it is on the same moral level as abortion, but because it deliberately destroys the very image of God. As I have asked before, if we dare not desecrate holy icons made from wood and paint, then why would we dare to destroy living icons created with the very breath of God?


Selam

Well said! that was far more eloquent than mine.  Smiley
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« Reply #98 on: May 15, 2013, 11:20:39 AM »

I’m glad this is over.

Now I can stop defriending people on Facebook for posting photos of abortions.
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« Reply #99 on: May 15, 2013, 11:37:40 AM »

I’m glad this is over.

Now I can stop defriending people on Facebook for posting photos of abortions.


Well glory to God, this is news to me! Abortion has ended in America! Thanks for letting us know.


Selam
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« Reply #100 on: May 15, 2013, 11:42:32 AM »

I’m glad this is over.

Now I can stop defriending people on Facebook for posting photos of abortions.


Well glory to God, this is news to me! Abortion has ended in America! Thanks for letting us know.


Selam

From your lips to God's ears!!

(If only.....)
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« Reply #101 on: May 15, 2013, 11:51:07 AM »

NVM.

I shouldn't have posted here at all.

Dead babies don't play well with me right now. My apologies to those who might have read my initial unkind response posted here.
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« Reply #102 on: May 15, 2013, 12:58:55 PM »



if we dare not desecrate holy icons made from wood and paint, then why would we dare to destroy living icons created with the very breath of God?



very much agree.
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« Reply #103 on: May 15, 2013, 01:13:38 PM »

Strictly speaking the death penalty is not murder.

Murder is an unlawful killing.

People can be lawfully killed, such as in a time of war one can shoot one's enemy
Excommunication occurs for cold-blooded murder, abortion, self-defense, warfare, manslaughter.

It is never not sinful to kill. What is lawful is not the important thing here.
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« Reply #104 on: May 15, 2013, 07:27:33 PM »

 Looking at the Seventh commandment, we see that it is a prohibition against murder but not killing.
Such sophistry aside, according to Christ we are guilty of murder in this thread.


 It isn't sophistry when my entire argument is considered.  And only a few posting here would be guilty of murder.

No, all here are guilty of murder, or - like Luther - have you ceased believing in the Epistle of James?
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« Reply #105 on: May 15, 2013, 11:19:07 PM »

I don't think anyone is advocating the "murder" of the doctor.  They are advocating a judicial system that would mete out a justice that he is arguably owed.  That being said, I agree with most of what else you said. 

I admit to using charged language, but I don't see vengeance "as meting out justice." I see it as murder, no matter how heinous the crimes being avenged are. The state willfully takes someone's life because it believes it is being just. But I do not believe that murder is ever just. He is now no longer a threat to society, so there is no applicable "self defense."

Christ certainly showed us what justice is, but he never said that we are to determine which murders are just and which are not.

There is a difference between vengeance and justice. Justice is always meted out by a disinterested third party according to the law. Vengeance is personal and emotionally charged.
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« Reply #106 on: May 15, 2013, 11:22:00 PM »



Does that mean that only my sins are real? No. Infanticide is a sin.
And now he can't do it anymore.

So...

I made my point. Where's yours?
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« Reply #107 on: May 16, 2013, 07:41:34 AM »

That is a bit complicated for me.  I am for the death penalty for other reasons.  First, I think that putting a human being in a cage for the rest of his life is cruel and unusual. 
Ask people on death row if they'd rather be in a cell, or dead

Second, a bullet is less expensive than 40 years of prison.  Unfortunately, our legal system has rendered the cost savings moot. 
Moot, where I come from, means up for debate

However, disposing of people because of the expense is rather cruel attitude.





It probably is less expensive to cage someone these days.  So, I fall back to the first argument.  It disgusts me that we have made an industry out of caging human beings. 
So, death penalty for all gaoled inmates?

And what about the 'industry' of death - electric chairs, lethal injection devices...

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« Reply #108 on: May 16, 2013, 09:05:38 AM »

 Looking at the Seventh commandment, we see that it is a prohibition against murder but not killing.
Such sophistry aside, according to Christ we are guilty of murder in this thread.


 It isn't sophistry when my entire argument is considered.  And only a few posting here would be guilty of murder.

No, all here are guilty of murder, or - like Luther - have you ceased believing in the Epistle of James?

You stand in judgment of everyone here?  Wow.  I guess, then, you must also include yourself in that.  Right?
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« Reply #109 on: May 16, 2013, 09:31:49 AM »

 Looking at the Seventh commandment, we see that it is a prohibition against murder but not killing.
Such sophistry aside, according to Christ we are guilty of murder in this thread.


 It isn't sophistry when my entire argument is considered.  And only a few posting here would be guilty of murder.

No, all here are guilty of murder, or - like Luther - have you ceased believing in the Epistle of James?

You stand in judgment of everyone here?  Wow.  I guess, then, you must also include yourself in that.  Right?

The Brother of our Lord stands in judgment of all, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #110 on: May 16, 2013, 10:26:13 PM »

I want to apologize for getting polemical and argumentative in this thread. This is obviously a touchy subject for me as well.

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« Reply #111 on: May 16, 2013, 11:28:47 PM »

At least we have a firm legal precedent against post-natal infanticide in the context of botched abortions.
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« Reply #112 on: May 17, 2013, 08:59:50 AM »

At least we have a firm legal precedent against post-natal infanticide in the context of botched abortions.

And what a horrific condemnation of our society and its barbarism that we should even need one.
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