Author Topic: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions  (Read 4413 times)

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Offline J Michael

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Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« on: May 13, 2013, 03:46:00 PM »
A drop of justice in a sea of misery and death.

Quote
Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions

PHILADELPHIA—
A Philadelphia abortion doctor was found guilty on Monday of murdering three babies during late-term abortions at a clinic serving low-income women.

Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 72, who ran the now-shuttered Women's Medical Society Clinic, faces the possibility of the death penalty in the case that focused on whether the infants were born alive and then killed.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-abortion-doctor-verdict-20130513,0,6359413.story

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 03:51:04 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 04:04:46 PM »
Let us pray that the guy repents.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 04:07:10 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 04:08:48 PM »
Let us pray that the guy repents.

I'll pray for that, but I sure won't hold my breath.

My wife tells me that he looked absolutely shocked when he heard the verdict, as if he assumed he would get away with what he's done.
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 04:22:48 PM »
Any lengthy prison sentence would be a death sentence for Dr. Gosnell.

Lord have mercy.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 04:27:37 PM »

It's sickening.  The way the babies were left for hours screaming, until someone came to snip their spines is horrific.  Just sick.

I wonder what his motivations were.  Was it all for money, or was there some sadistic pleasure in taking as many innocent lives as he could?

...and the staff...who claim they only did what they were told....really?  Since when do we blindly do what we are told, knowing it's the wrong thing to do?  Disgusting lot!

Lord, have mercy on all involved.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 05:50:07 PM »
Sick stuff for sure.
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Offline jwinch2

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 06:45:48 PM »
Sick stuff for sure.

You aren't kidding.  When I first heard about this I was almost sick to my stomach.  I have deliberately avoided the trial, etc. until today as I simply cannot take it.  How someone can see this and not believe that there is evil in the world is beyond my understanding. He's in for an uncomfortable prison sentence, and barring a miracle, an even less comfortable meeting with our Blessed Lord. 

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 08:20:41 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.
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Offline William

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2013, 08:34:23 PM »
If the death penalty is ever justifiable, then this man deserves it.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline #1Sinner

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 08:36:56 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

You are under the wrong impression, sorry.
I hereby recant of defending "orthodoxy" and trying to persuade fellow Catholics of embracing schism. I adhere to the Catholic Faith as preserved by the Church of Rome and Her Pontiffs.

Offline biro

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 08:37:40 PM »
If the death penalty is ever justifiable, then this man deserves it.

So you can't have an abortion, but you can execute the post-born.

Interesting.

Offline William

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2013, 08:41:08 PM »
If the death penalty is ever justifiable, then this man deserves it.

So you can't have an abortion, but you can execute the post-born.

Interesting.

According to Gosnell, anyways.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2013, 08:46:02 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

You are under the wrong impression, sorry.

So I guess the Orthodox Church threw out all that "I am the Chief of Sinners" stuff after I left?
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

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Offline Shiny

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2013, 08:55:17 PM »
If the death penalty is ever justifiable, then this man deserves it.

So you can't have an abortion, but you can execute the post-born.

Interesting.

According to Gosnell, anyways.
An eye for an eye...

But I can't imagine snipping a spinal cord on a live baby.

Sends me chills.
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Offline #1Sinner

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2013, 08:59:24 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

You are under the wrong impression, sorry.

So I guess the Orthodox Church threw out all that "I am the Chief of Sinners" stuff after I left?

I speak for myself. Quit with the holier than thou act. The man decapitated babies for a living. Sure he is human but I think the moniker of "monster" is apt.
I hereby recant of defending "orthodoxy" and trying to persuade fellow Catholics of embracing schism. I adhere to the Catholic Faith as preserved by the Church of Rome and Her Pontiffs.

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2013, 09:00:03 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

You are under the wrong impression, sorry.

So I guess the Orthodox Church threw out all that "I am the Chief of Sinners" stuff after I left?

I speak for myself. Quit with the holier than thou act. The man decapitated babies for a living. Sure he is human but I think the moniker of "monster" is apt.

But aren't you the "#1Sinner"?
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

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Offline Shiny

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2013, 09:05:57 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

You are under the wrong impression, sorry.

So I guess the Orthodox Church threw out all that "I am the Chief of Sinners" stuff after I left?

I speak for myself. Quit with the holier than thou act. The man decapitated babies for a living. Sure he is human but I think the moniker of "monster" is apt.

But aren't you the "#1Sinner"?
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Punch

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2013, 09:29:39 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

Sanctimonious rot at its best.  Yes, he is a human monster that should be executed in the same manner as those he killed.  I make NO apology for that feeling.  But then again, I can understand where you are coming from - a religious organization with no discernible moral code.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline #1Sinner

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2013, 09:45:46 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

You are under the wrong impression, sorry.

So I guess the Orthodox Church threw out all that "I am the Chief of Sinners" stuff after I left?

I speak for myself. Quit with the holier than thou act. The man decapitated babies for a living. Sure he is human but I think the moniker of "monster" is apt.

But aren't you the "#1Sinner"?

I was recently promoted to #2 behind this guy.  :angel:
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 09:46:55 PM by #1Sinner »
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Offline #1Sinner

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2013, 09:47:29 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

Sanctimonious rot at its best.  Yes, he is a human monster that should be executed in the same manner as those he killed.  I make NO apology for that feeling.  But then again, I can understand where you are coming from - a religious organization with no discernible moral code.

This
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2013, 09:54:40 PM »
Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

All humans are monsters; some of us just more so than others.

So you can't have an abortion, but you can execute the post-born.

According to the good doctor, it appears so.

In reality, I find myself indifferent to the death penalty; I wouldn't wish it on others, however, I also wouldn't feel any remorse if someone like Dr. Gosnell faced it anymore than I would if some idiot accidently shot himself or some dare devil's parachute malfunctioned while skydiving and he landed looking like a pancake. He knew the risk involved in what he was doing and the way the law worked, why feel any remorse for him? It's not like anyone forced him to murder those infants, he was in his right mind and he was old enough to make his own decisions. Besides, the way I see it is that execution is FAR more humane than keeping a human locked in a cage for the rest of their life. I'd much rather take a bullet to the brain if I screwed up as badly as him than to rot in prison forever.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline William

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2013, 09:54:57 PM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

Is he a monster?  I was under the impression he was a human.

Sanctimonious rot at its best.  Yes, he is a human monster that should be executed in the same manner as those he killed.  I make NO apology for that feeling.  But then again, I can understand where you are coming from - a religious organization with no discernible moral code.

Quote
That the position of this Church, stated at the 62nd General Convention of the Church in Seattle in 1967 which declared support for the "termination of pregnancy" particularly in those cases where "the physical or mental health of the mother is threatened seriously, or where there is substantial reason to believe that the child would be born badly deformed in mind or body, or where the pregnancy has resulted from rape or incest" is reaffirmed. Termination of pregnancy for these reasons is permissible.
http://www.episcopalarchives.org/cgi-bin/acts/acts_resolution.pl?resolution=1976-D095
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2013, 09:57:53 PM »
So I guess the Orthodox Church threw out all that "I am the Chief of Sinners" stuff after I left?

I never accepted that crap in the first place  ;) I mean, don't get me wrong. I've screwed up, lusted, lost my temper and stuff, but I don't think an average-joe sinner like me holds a candle to someone like this guy.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2013, 12:19:13 AM »
Sanctimonious rot at its best.  Yes, he is a human monster that should be executed in the same manner as those he killed.  I make NO apology for that feeling.  But then again, I can understand where you are coming from - a religious organization with no discernible moral code.
If you mean to imply that the Orthodox Church substitutes Baal and Ares for Christ, whereas the Anglican Church does not, I would have to disagree.

A lot of people really enjoyed reading this story about the bad doctor. They got to feel outrage, which is one of the most pleasurable emotions a human being can experience. Quite the endorphin high. Really makes you feel on top of the world.

Quote from: Orthonorm
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2013, 12:35:30 AM »
A lot of people really enjoyed reading this story about the bad doctor. They got to feel outrage, which is one of the most pleasurable emotions a human being can experience. Quite the endorphin high. Really makes you feel on top of the world.

Where you one of those people?

I know I was.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 12:35:44 AM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2013, 12:42:58 AM »
A lot of people really enjoyed reading this story about the bad doctor. They got to feel outrage, which is one of the most pleasurable emotions a human being can experience. Quite the endorphin high. Really makes you feel on top of the world.

Where you one of those people?

I know I was.
To an extent. Not proud of it. Don't think we should change the faith to accommodate it.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 12:43:16 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2013, 12:56:39 AM »
To an extent. Not proud of it. Don't think we should change the faith to accommodate it.

I have a real aversion to violence, and I think that I could probably personally execute this man if I was called on by God and country.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2013, 12:57:55 AM »
It's a good thing we aren't, then.
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2013, 01:00:18 AM »
Christ is risen!
I wonder how much the usual media report this verdict, seeing how much they avoided mentioning the trial.  I'm really interested how much they would have shouted from the rooftops if he was acquitted.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 01:00:40 AM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2013, 01:49:52 AM »
Indeed, He is risen!

That Dr. Gosnell was surprised by the verdict is, unfortunately, not itself all that surprising. I cannot know exactly what went through his head when he performed these murders, but he certainly performed them in a society that has embraced his work and grossly devalued human life.

Shame on you people who want the State to murder this man. He needs our prayers now more than ever, and I say that as a completely unholy sinner. When is it ever okay to murder someone? Certainly not out of some twisted sense of vengeance. I can sympathize with the strong emotions present, but we are always to return evil with good. Who knows what repentance can do to a soul?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 01:50:31 AM by lovesupreme »

Offline Papist

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2013, 05:13:24 AM »
Trulty a horrific story.

Lord, have mercy.
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Offline #1Sinner

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2013, 06:49:37 AM »
Sanctimonious rot at its best.  Yes, he is a human monster that should be executed in the same manner as those he killed.  I make NO apology for that feeling.  But then again, I can understand where you are coming from - a religious organization with no discernible moral code.
If you mean to imply that the Orthodox Church substitutes Baal and Ares for Christ, whereas the Anglican Church does not, I would have to disagree.

A lot of people really enjoyed reading this story about the bad doctor. They got to feel outrage, which is one of the most pleasurable emotions a human being can experience. Quite the endorphin high. Really makes you feel on top of the world.



More sanctimony.

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill."
I hereby recant of defending "orthodoxy" and trying to persuade fellow Catholics of embracing schism. I adhere to the Catholic Faith as preserved by the Church of Rome and Her Pontiffs.

Offline montalban

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2013, 07:26:53 AM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

You advocate killing someone because they killed?
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Offline jah777

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2013, 07:54:55 AM »
I avoided reading about the horrible details of this case, until the street address of his operation caught my eye as the title of a YouTube video.  Apparently, this horrible operation was going on just a block from where I used to live, and I had no idea at the time.  Lord have mercy!

Offline J Michael

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2013, 09:26:26 AM »
So I guess the Orthodox Church threw out all that "I am the Chief of Sinners" stuff after I left?

I never accepted that crap in the first place  ;) I mean, don't get me wrong. I've screwed up, lusted, lost my temper and stuff, but I don't think an average-joe sinner like me holds a candle to someone like this guy.

Being First amongst (or Chief of) Sinners has nothing to do with comparing yourself and your sins to others.  Before you reject "that crap", you may want to discuss it with your priest.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2013, 09:38:09 AM »
This is quite close to where I live.  The facts of what happened are horrific.

Lord, have mercy.

From what I have heard of this case, the facts are such that if I were on the jury, I could probably support imposing the death penalty for this monster.

You advocate killing someone because they killed?

Yes, possibly, in this instance.   And perhaps even in the manner suggested by Punch.  Not just "because they killed", either, but rather because the reasons he did it, the manner in which he did it and who he did it to. If, at sentencing, Gosnell somehow manages to express some kind of extreme remorse for his actions, and is believable, I would happily reconsider.   
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2013, 09:43:05 AM »
I am opposed to the death penalty in all situations.  As Christians, we ought to be quick to show mercy and slow to pass harsh judgements on others, even if they committed horrific acts.  Perhaps the rest of his life in prison will give him much needed time to reflect on the sins he committed and live the remainder of his life in repentance.  He may not be showing sorrow for his actions now, but none of us know how God might work on his heart.

Let us commit the memories of the children and woman who died to Christ.
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Offline katherine 2001

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2013, 09:50:00 AM »
I am against the death penalty too.  I believe that he should spend the rest of his life in prison with no chance of parole.  They may have to keep him in solitary confinement to keep other prisoners from killing him though.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2013, 09:54:29 AM »
I am against the death penalty too.  I believe that he should spend the rest of his life in prison with no chance of parole.  They may have to keep him in solitary confinement to keep other prisoners from killing him though.

For many, many years I was totally against the death penalty.  I have come to accept that there may be instances when it is "appropriate".  This may very well be one of them.  I'm not on the jury, so I don't get a "vote".

You realize, of course, that even if Gosnell is sentenced to death, he will probably die on death row before the sentence is ever carried out.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 10:02:34 AM by J Michael »
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Timon

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2013, 10:06:53 AM »
I am opposed to the death penalty in all situations.  As Christians, we ought to be quick to show mercy and slow to pass harsh judgements on others, even if they committed horrific acts.  Perhaps the rest of his life in prison will give him much needed time to reflect on the sins he committed and live the remainder of his life in repentance.  He may not be showing sorrow for his actions now, but none of us know how God might work on his heart.

Let us commit the memories of the children and woman who died to Christ.
I am against the death penalty too.  I believe that he should spend the rest of his life in prison with no chance of parole.  They may have to keep him in solitary confinement to keep other prisoners from killing him though.

I agree with both of you. I used to support it, but I just cant anymore. This is probably the most disgusting news story that I have ever heard, but it doesnt change the fact that this "monster" is still a human being created in the image and likeness of God. I certainly think that he should be severely punished, but I dont think it makes a ton of sense to kill someone to show everyone else that killing is wrong. Especially since we know that Christ didnt teach "an eye for an eye."

I totally understand how easy it is in this situation to wish he would just be killed. But if we truly desire the salvation of everyone, what would killing him actually accomplish, other than satisfying our own sense of justice? As others have stated, let us pray now more than ever for the salvation of his soul.

(Dont want to sound like a lib-hippie here, as thats certainly not me. Just my personal opinion of the death penalty.)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 10:07:41 AM by Timon »
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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Offline Fotina02

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2013, 10:10:29 AM »
What was the argument used to separate the legal abortion and murder? Probably most abortionists do the same thing, that is make sure they kill the baby.

Lord have mercy.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2013, 10:16:00 AM »
Purely the term.  It is technically illegal after 21 weeks, or something like that.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Doctor found guilty of murder in late-term abortions
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2013, 10:17:14 AM »
Let us pray that the guy repents.

I'll pray for that, but I sure won't hold my breath.

My wife tells me that he looked absolutely shocked when he heard the verdict, as if he assumed he would get away with what he's done.
Yes, I understand he was laughing and joking up to that point, as he had while murdering them.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth