Author Topic: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of  (Read 1012 times)

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Offline Faith2545

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Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« on: March 21, 2013, 12:52:39 PM »
OK, really quickly - just your opinions and what you know. Though we might have already touched upon this in 'part 1' :)

My cousin is marrying a Roman Catholic. He is Greek Orthodox. They will marry in a GO Church.

Thing is this: their priest said the girl doesn't need to be baptized to marry in the GO Church. So as far as we know, she will not be baptized when she'll be married. Their priest said that Catholics are already baptized.

Whereas, two months ago, coincidently, my priest said seconds before giving us Holy Communion, that unless you have been baptized in the GO church you cannot come up and receive Holy Communion.

Now, if she WANTS to become GO down the road, she can at any time. But the question is, can she, as a current Catholic, partake in the Sacraments? According to one priest the answer is yes - according to the other, the answer is no. But marriage is one of the Sacraments!

I know this might be just a technicality - after all, Catholics are devout Christians. But aren't these the technicalities that have divided us? So, if we go with the first priest, then any officially 'baptized' Christian from birth can come in the GO Church and partake in our Sacrament, but not so according to my priest. Is there a right/wrong here?  Thoughts?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 12:54:12 PM by Faith2545 »

Offline sheenj

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2013, 01:11:45 PM »
OK, really quickly - just your opinions and what you know. Though we might have already touched upon this in 'part 1' :)

My cousin is marrying a Roman Catholic. He is Greek Orthodox. They will marry in a GO Church.

Thing is this: their priest said the girl doesn't need to be baptized to marry in the GO Church. So as far as we know, she will not be baptized when she'll be married. Their priest said that Catholics are already baptized.

Whereas, two months ago, coincidently, my priest said seconds before giving us Holy Communion, that unless you have been baptized in the GO church you cannot come up and receive Holy Communion.

Now, if she WANTS to become GO down the road, she can at any time. But the question is, can she, as a current Catholic, partake in the Sacraments? According to one priest the answer is yes - according to the other, the answer is no. But marriage is one of the Sacraments!

I know this might be just a technicality - after all, Catholics are devout Christians. But aren't these the technicalities that have divided us? So, if we go with the first priest, then any officially 'baptized' Christian from birth can come in the GO Church and partake in our Sacrament, but not so according to my priest. Is there a right/wrong here?  Thoughts?

I believe the norm in EO Churches is to Chrismate Catholics who convert, not Baptize. I think what the priest meant when he said "baptized" in the GOC was "received" into the Church, which is done either by Baptism, Chrismation, or Confession.

As long as your cousin's wife is properly received, probably through Chrismation, she should be able to commune in all EO Churches in Communion with the GOC.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 01:15:08 PM by sheenj »

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2013, 01:58:40 PM »
http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/controversialissues
"Though the Church would prefer that all Orthodox Christians would marry Orthodox Christians, it does not insist on it in practice. Out of its concern for the spiritual welfare of members who wish to marry a non-Orthodox Christian, the Church will conduct a "mixed marriage." For this purpose, a "non-Orthodox Christian" is a member of the Roman Catholic Church, or one of the many Protestant Churches which believe in and baptize in the name of the Holy Trinity. This means that such mixed marriages may be performed in the Orthodox Church. However, the Orthodox Church does not perform marriages between Orthodox Christians and persons belonging to other religions, such as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any sectarian and cult group, such as Christian Science, Mormonism, or the followers of Rev. Moon."
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

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Offline jah777

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2013, 02:21:51 PM »
From the Pastoral Guidelines section of the GOA's Office of Interfaith Marriage:

Quote
Inter-Christian couples are also respectfully informed that non-Orthodox Christians who marry in the Orthodox Church do not subsequently have sacramental privileges in the Orthodox Church. Because of the Orthodox Church’s position on sacramental participation, only those who are in good standing canonically and spiritually have sacramental privileges. Similarly, intermarried couples should also be aware that only Orthodox Christians who are in good standing canonically and spiritually are (a) permitted an Orthodox Funeral Service, (b) and allowed to serve on the Parish Council, (c) permitted to vote in parish elections, and (d) permitted to serve as godparents or sponsors at baptisms and weddings.

http://www.goarch.org/archdiocese/departments/marriage/interfaith/pastoralguidelines

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2013, 02:49:39 PM »
Now, if she WANTS to become GO down the road, she can at any time. But the question is, can she, as a current Catholic, partake in the Sacraments? According to one priest the answer is yes - according to the other, the answer is no. But marriage is one of the Sacraments!

Marriage is not a way to be received into the church.  Note that the bride and groom say nothing during the service.  In Baptism, chrismation and confession, the person (or their Sponsor/Godparent) has to recite the Nicene Creed.

I know this might be just a technicality - after all, Catholics are devout Christians. But aren't these the technicalities that have divided us? So, if we go with the first priest, then any officially 'baptized' Christian from birth can come in the GO Church and partake in our Sacrament, but not so according to my priest. Is there a right/wrong here?  Thoughts?

The Priest who says that non-Orthodox Christians become Orthodox Christians when they are married needs a refresher course from his Bishop.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 02:57:48 PM by SolEX01 »

Offline sheenj

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2013, 03:38:14 PM »

The Priest who says that non-Orthodox Christians become Orthodox Christians when they are married needs a refresher course from his Bishop.

Er, that's not what the priest said according to Faith2545. What he actually said was the Bride didn't need to be baptized to be married in the GOC. I see no reason to assume the priest meant anything other than that Chrismation was enough.

Offline Sarah

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2013, 03:42:03 PM »

Note that the bride and groom say nothing during the service.  In Baptism, chrismation and confession, the person (or their Sponsor/Godparent) has to recite the Nicene Creed.


Not true.  Both the bride and the groom reply "I have" when the priest asks them, at the beginning of the Betrothal Service, if they, "a good, free, and unconstrained will and a firm intention to take unto yourself to wife/husband this woman/man, whom you see here before you."

Also, Orthodox people are not allowed to married non-Christian people.  If someone has been baptized in another church and this baptism is approved by the bishop, then that person does not have to be chrismated.  If the bishop does not approved of the baptism, then that person would probably have to be baptized again.

Offline Faith2545

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 05:03:39 PM »
Now, if she WANTS to become GO down the road, she can at any time. But the question is, can she, as a current Catholic, partake in the Sacraments? According to one priest the answer is yes - according to the other, the answer is no. But marriage is one of the Sacraments!

Marriage is not a way to be received into the church.  Note that the bride and groom say nothing during the service.  In Baptism, chrismation and confession, the person (or their Sponsor/Godparent) has to recite the Nicene Creed.

I know this might be just a technicality - after all, Catholics are devout Christians. But aren't these the technicalities that have divided us? So, if we go with the first priest, then any officially 'baptized' Christian from birth can come in the GO Church and partake in our Sacrament, but not so according to my priest. Is there a right/wrong here?  Thoughts?

The Priest who says that non-Orthodox Christians become Orthodox Christians when they are married needs a refresher course from his Bishop.

This is what I know as well - that non O.C. are NOT considered Orthodox after having married an OC. After all, I am going to be Godmother to a Catholic girl who is being married to a Greek Orthodox guy, my friend. My cousin, on the other hand, is just going along with what he is being told by that priest.....don't know!

Offline quietmorning

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2013, 06:54:11 PM »
OK, really quickly - just your opinions and what you know. Though we might have already touched upon this in 'part 1' :)

My cousin is marrying a Roman Catholic. He is Greek Orthodox. They will marry in a GO Church.

Thing is this: their priest said the girl doesn't need to be baptized to marry in the GO Church. So as far as we know, she will not be baptized when she'll be married. Their priest said that Catholics are already baptized.

Whereas, two months ago, coincidently, my priest said seconds before giving us Holy Communion, that unless you have been baptized in the GO church you cannot come up and receive Holy Communion.

Now, if she WANTS to become GO down the road, she can at any time. But the question is, can she, as a current Catholic, partake in the Sacraments? According to one priest the answer is yes - according to the other, the answer is no. But marriage is one of the Sacraments!

I know this might be just a technicality - after all, Catholics are devout Christians. But aren't these the technicalities that have divided us? So, if we go with the first priest, then any officially 'baptized' Christian from birth can come in the GO Church and partake in our Sacrament, but not so according to my priest. Is there a right/wrong here?  Thoughts?

Actually, unless she's been CHRISMATED, she cannot receive communion.  My baptism is Roman Catholic, and is fully accepted by the church.  But, I had to be Chrismated before I could receive Holy Communion.
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2013, 08:15:19 PM »
Note that the bride and groom say nothing during the service.  In Baptism, chrismation and confession, the person (or their Sponsor/Godparent) has to recite the Nicene Creed.

Not true.  Both the bride and the groom reply "I have" when the priest asks them, at the beginning of the Betrothal Service, if they, "a good, free, and unconstrained will and a firm intention to take unto yourself to wife/husband this woman/man, whom you see here before you."

In all fairness, that exchange doesn't take place in the churches under the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.


Offline SolEX01

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2013, 08:16:56 PM »

The Priest who says that non-Orthodox Christians become Orthodox Christians when they are married needs a refresher course from his Bishop.

Er, that's not what the priest said according to Faith2545. What he actually said was the Bride didn't need to be baptized to be married in the GOC. I see no reason to assume the priest meant anything other than that Chrismation was enough.

I was responding to what Faith said in the bold text:

Quote from: Faith2545
Now, if she WANTS to become GO down the road, she can at any time. But the question is, can she, as a current Catholic, partake in the Sacraments? According to one priest the answer is yes - according to the other, the answer is no. But marriage is one of the Sacraments!

Offline katherine 2001

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Re: Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians Part 2 -sort of
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2013, 10:29:56 AM »
Your cousin can marry in an Orthodox ceremony without his wife becoming Orthodox, but she would not be able to commune in an Orthodox church without becoming Orthodox.  She can get married in an Orthodox church without becoming Orthodox, as Orthodox can marry other Christians.  The second time you mentioned, the priest was specifically talking about Communion and only Orthodox can receive.  However, non-Orthodox Christians can get married in an Orthodox ceremony if they are marrying someone who is Orthodox, but that would be the only sacrament she could participate in.  Of course, any children would be expected to be baptized Orthodox.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 10:33:46 AM by katherine 2001 »