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Author Topic: Firm Atheist to Orthodox Converts?  (Read 2055 times) Average Rating: 0
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truthseeker32
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« on: May 07, 2013, 02:42:42 PM »

Are any of you converts to Orthodoxy who were previously convinced, firm atheists, or do you know of any Orthodox converts that come from atheism?

If you are a former atheist, what led you to convert to Orthodoxy?
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2013, 03:09:39 PM »

I was an atheist before converting to Orthodoxy. My conversion process was essentially two-fold: I began to investigate the historicity of the resurrection, which I found more and more convincing, and at the same time began to see the poor foundation for an atheistic worldview. After I became convinced that the resurrection was at least plausible, I began to read about the aftermath and thus discovered the Orthodox Church. It was a quick process after that.
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2013, 03:21:45 PM »

I was an atheist before converting to Orthodoxy. My conversion process was essentially two-fold: I began to investigate the historicity of the resurrection, which I found more and more convincing, and at the same time began to see the poor foundation for an atheistic worldview. After I became convinced that the resurrection was at least plausible, I began to read about the aftermath and thus discovered the Orthodox Church. It was a quick process after that.

I find this so inspiring.  While I've never been a confirmed atheist, I did mock Christianity openly before converting, and wasn't so sure he even existed.  This was back in 1999, and there really wasn't much of an awareness about the historicity of Christ on the internet, apart from Josephus.  Now there is so much more available which can list the evidence and reliability of the Gospels all in one place.

For me, I just read the Gospels and concluded from that alone that he must have existed and that he was God.
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2013, 04:01:29 PM »

I was an atheist before converting to Orthodoxy. My conversion process was essentially two-fold: I began to investigate the historicity of the resurrection, which I found more and more convincing, and at the same time began to see the poor foundation for an atheistic worldview. After I became convinced that the resurrection was at least plausible, I began to read about the aftermath and thus discovered the Orthodox Church. It was a quick process after that.
Very cool!
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2013, 05:18:16 PM »

I was an atheist for most of my life. The conventional arguments against atheism rang hollow to me (and still do). However, I have always been curious/ interested in religion, and also obsessed with art and literature, and of course the lion's share of great art and literature of the world was produced by religious people. I was drawn to Christianity specifically by a lot of things, including iconography and also Western art (especially the Northern Renaissance), and by reading Christian poets, especially Milton and Blake. While I disagree with a lot of Blake's philosophy, his thoughts about materialism and empiricism helped me work my way out of materialistic thinking which held me back even when I wanted to immerse myself in a religious tradition. Finally, Orthodox Christianity was the form of Christianity that drew me in the most, both aesthetically and theologically.
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2013, 07:35:04 PM »

When I started looking around for forums about religion, spent some time at one that was mainly atheists, and since I never had been exposed to that directly, I was quite surprised by the whole attitude of that.

They seemed hell bent to dissuade all denominations to their way of thinking.
Course that was a small site and there were some Christians and Muslims, but only about 20 total regulars .

It was interesting but I soon found better places such as this for religion.
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2013, 07:43:00 PM »

I was a lifelong agnostic until I found religion, then lost it. After that, I dabbled with hardcore atheism for a while, but by then I was already aware of the God-shaped hole that needed to be filled.
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2013, 01:29:51 PM »

Thank you for all the replies, friends. I enjoyed reading them.

Were any of you previously fans of the so-called "New Atheists" like Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett, or Harris?
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2013, 01:33:38 PM »

I wonder if people's own experience of this intrinsic need for God is more convincing than an apologetic argument.
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2013, 01:57:33 PM »

Thank you for all the replies, friends. I enjoyed reading them.

Were any of you previously fans of the so-called "New Atheists" like Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett, or Harris?

When I heard about these guys, as an atheist, I already knew too much about religion to take them seriously. I recognized them as being rather intellectually inept and I wondered how much philosophy Dawkins or Hitchens had read from before or after the 18th century.
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2013, 02:01:30 PM »

I wonder if people's own experience of this intrinsic need for God is more convincing than an apologetic argument.

For me the apologetics worked.
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2013, 02:23:29 PM »

Thank you for all the replies, friends. I enjoyed reading them.

Were any of you previously fans of the so-called "New Atheists" like Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett, or Harris?

It was, ironically, my reading of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins that really made me see the weak arguments in favor of atheism, and turn and eye towards investingating the resurrection. It was just the biggest bunch of nonsense.
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2013, 03:09:57 PM »

I like Hitchens.  He was entertaining and erudite and will be sorely missed.  Dawkins is insufferable and too British.  Dennet and Harris are merely boring.
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2013, 04:39:31 PM »

The Marxist critic Terry Eagleton wrote a devilishly witty critique of both Hitchens, Dawkins and the "New Atheism"  in a book entitled: Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on the God Debate.  You might want to give it a go, just for the hellavut.
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2013, 04:52:46 PM »

The Marxist critic Terry Eagleton wrote a devilishly witty critique of both Hitchens, Dawkins and the "New Atheism"  in a book entitled: Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on the God Debate.  You might want to give it a go, just for the hellavut.

Same devil! 
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2013, 04:58:04 PM »

The strongest arguments for atheism IMO are made by Omar Khayyam, but it looks like the new pop atheists don't have any time for poetry. (And really, who does anymore?)
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2013, 05:07:12 PM »

The Marxist critic Terry Eagleton wrote a devilishly witty critique of both Hitchens, Dawkins and the "New Atheism"  in a book entitled: Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on the God Debate.  You might want to give it a go, just for the hellavut.

Same devil! 

Not quite.  Eagleton is Marxist and Catholic, not Marxist and Atheist, but I get your point.
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« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2013, 05:09:01 PM »

Eagleton is Marxist and Catholic

No such thing exists.
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« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2013, 05:09:52 PM »

The strongest arguments for atheism IMO are made by Omar Khayyam, but it looks like the new pop atheists don't have any time for poetry. (And really, who does anymore?)

Thanks.  I hadn't looked at it that way, I'll have to go back a re-read.  I feel you about poetry.
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« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2013, 05:26:23 PM »

The strongest arguments for atheism IMO are made by Omar Khayyam, but it looks like the new pop atheists don't have any time for poetry. (And really, who does anymore?)

Thanks.  I hadn't looked at it that way, I'll have to go back a re-read.  I feel you about poetry.

Forgive my asking - why did you pretend your English was broken in your earlier posts?
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« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2013, 05:32:56 PM »

Dawkins is insufferable and too British.

Too British? There's no such thing as "too British". One can never be too British.
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2013, 05:54:05 PM »

Well English is not my first language.  It is not even my second language.  I spoke English with an accent well into grade school, when I finally learned to imitate the accents of my peers.  I was writing like I used to speak, sometimes I feel that is the real me.
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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2013, 05:55:18 PM »

Dawkins is insufferable and too British.

Too British? There's no such thing as "too British". One can never be too British.

If you drive on the left even on the mainland, you're too British.
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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2013, 06:09:22 PM »

The strongest arguments for atheism IMO are made by Omar Khayyam, but it looks like the new pop atheists don't have any time for poetry. (And really, who does anymore?)

Thanks.  I hadn't looked at it that way, I'll have to go back a re-read.  I feel you about poetry.

Forgive my asking - why did you pretend your English was broken in your earlier posts?

I mean it is just another form avatar, que no?  A way in which we both partake of this fellowship and sloak ourselves at the same time with handles and avatars.  Like my sea urchin.  Like your Romaios.  All of us former members of the Imperial Eastern Roman Commonwealth can be Romaois, Romans.  Yet at the same time to be Romaoisyni is to be truely Greek, in a sense that is not shared by the word Hellene.  What is the significance to you? 
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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2013, 06:18:13 PM »

Like your Romaios.  All of us former members of the Imperial Eastern Roman Commonwealth can be Romaois, Romans.  Yet at the same time to be Romaoisyni is to be truely Greek, in a sense that is not shared by the word Hellene.  What is the significance to you? 

Romaios is the anagram of my (very Latin) name. (o+o~u)   Wink
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« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2013, 06:26:27 PM »

I wonder if people's own experience of this intrinsic need for God is more convincing than an apologetic argument.

For me the apologetics worked.
I have found some apologetics to be thought-provoking, but more often than not I find them lacking. I think I actually prefer that Orthodoxy lacks a prominent apologetics network like Catholic Answers, with which I have often been disappointed.
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« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2013, 06:43:10 PM »

Like your Romaios.  All of us former members of the Imperial Eastern Roman Commonwealth can be Romaois, Romans.  Yet at the same time to be Romaoisyni is to be truely Greek, in a sense that is not shared by the word Hellene.  What is the significance to you? 

Romaios is the anagram of my (very Latin) name. (o+o~u)   Wink

Ta ka, there it is.  I means something very different to me.  So with Romaios you can open a door to a whole new vista on the understanding of what it meant to be a Vizantin, Byzantine.
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« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2013, 06:59:00 PM »

I grew up athiest with my dad, loved art and history.  One of the things that kept me from any Christianity was what I thought I knew at the time.  I had 2 sets of Ned Flanders surrounding my house who was constantly talking about God yet their kids always seemed to get into trouble.  All I knew at the time was that Christianity consisted of people on TV with way too much makeup crying for money only to find out they've had mulitiple affairs and lived not to their teachings.  All the while my dad always taught me good morals including pro-life positions and such.  Why would I need some Church?

As I got older I wanted to believe in something, anything but something that could truely standup with conviction.  I hadn't a clue what East Orthodoxy was until a couple of years ago, and when I did, I fell in love with the traditions.
I think what Orthodoxy did to change me was the veneration of the Virgin Mary along with the ideas of what sin is.  Those concepts were drastically different than anything I've ever heard of.  Finally there was a place that respected women at the highest degree.  Additionally I refuse to believe even to this day that we are guilty of anything when we are born.  The "missing of the mark" seems so much more accurate to cause.   From there I really got into it.
As of now sometimes I still struggle, but I know it's Orthodoxy or nothing at all for me.  I've even experienced what might be considered a miracle or two in the past couple of months, but I think I am beginning to understand what Christ's teachings mean without feeling brainwashed or compromising who I am.
I have to back off of modern apologetics sometimes because some of the argumentation is contradictory, and it causes me to not believe a lot of what is said.  But when I experience the church itself and what the services do, it is a whole other experience for me; it's more personal and no "noise" so to speak from outside talk.  An Orthodox church feels spiritual, and I love it everytime I go.
 Smiley
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« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2013, 07:20:02 PM »

I grew up athiest with my dad, loved art and history.  One of the things that kept me from any Christianity was what I thought I knew at the time.  I had 2 sets of Ned Flanders surrounding my house who was constantly talking about God yet their kids always seemed to get into trouble.  All I knew at the time was that Christianity consisted of people on TV with way too much makeup crying for money only to find out they've had mulitiple affairs and lived not to their teachings.  All the while my dad always taught me good morals including pro-life positions and such.  Why would I need some Church?

As I got older I wanted to believe in something, anything but something that could truely standup with conviction.  I hadn't a clue what East Orthodoxy was until a couple of years ago, and when I did, I fell in love with the traditions.
I think what Orthodoxy did to change me was the veneration of the Virgin Mary along with the ideas of what sin is.  Those concepts were drastically different than anything I've ever heard of.  Finally there was a place that respected women at the highest degree.  Additionally I refuse to believe even to this day that we are guilty of anything when we are born.  The "missing of the mark" seems so much more accurate to cause.   From there I really got into it.
As of now sometimes I still struggle, but I know it's Orthodoxy or nothing at all for me.  I've even experienced what might be considered a miracle or two in the past couple of months, but I think I am beginning to understand what Christ's teachings mean without feeling brainwashed or compromising who I am.
I have to back off of modern apologetics sometimes because some of the argumentation is contradictory, and it causes me to not believe a lot of what is said.  But when I experience the church itself and what the services do, it is a whole other experience for me; it's more personal and no "noise" so to speak from outside talk.  An Orthodox church feels spiritual, and I love it everytime I go.
 Smiley

I just wanted to add that the best bible study I've ever came across is on Ancient Faith Radio, "Searching the Scriptures" with Dr. Jeanne Constantinou.  The perscpective on the Bible in this radio show academically, historically, and spiritually is worth its weight in gold for someone like me who doesn' know the Bible well, and wants thorough explanations on what the Bible means to Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2013, 07:56:55 PM »

My problem with Dawkins is that he's not a philosopher; he's an evolutionary biologist. He's great when he's writing in his field. He's abysmally inadequate when he tries to champion the cause against religion because a few loud fundamentalists sent him hate mail for saying their grandpa evolved from a chimp. Instead of ignoring the extremists, he ended up becoming one himself.

I read both "The God Delusion and "god is not great" when I left religion the first time. "god is not great" is better written, but it's still, well... "not great." Tongue Hitchens was exposed to a very particular brand of religion growing up, and decides to write a personal attack on ALL forms of religion, even the ones to which he has not been adequately exposed. To lump fundamentalist non-denominationalism with Eastern Orthodox is ridiculous; to lump those two with jihadist Islam is  Shocked

I think the term "pop atheism" is apt. Just as we have "pop scientists" and "pop psychologists," the pop atheists are here for those who want to take a stance but don't want to be bothered with any real amount of research or reflection.
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« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2013, 08:52:17 PM »

I just wanted to add that the best bible study I've ever came across is on Ancient Faith Radio, "Searching the Scriptures" with Dr. Jeanne Constantinou.  The perscpective on the Bible in this radio show academically, historically, and spiritually is worth its weight in gold for someone like me who doesn' know the Bible well, and wants thorough explanations on what the Bible means to Orthodoxy.
I just began listening to her series. It is great!
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« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2013, 09:14:08 PM »

Dawkins is insufferable and too British.

Too British? There's no such thing as "too British". One can never be too British.
Point taken.  Actually he is too British in the sense that much of his critique is appears to be motivated in good measure, by culture shock from the realization that American Fundamentalists actually can exercise some measure of control of what goes into local school science textbooks.  His animus is part and parcel of the general concern among many scientists in the USA that scientific education was increasingly being dumbed down to avoid upseting the religious sensibilities of a certain segment of politically active primarily evangelical constituency in the USA.  Apparently in the UK, religious communities are mostly nice and keep to their own "magisteria."

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« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2013, 09:22:32 PM »

Well English is not my first language.  It is not even my second language.  I spoke English with an accent well into grade school, when I finally learned to imitate the accents of my peers.  I was writing like I used to speak, sometimes I feel that is the real me.


Those posts were ingenious.
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« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2013, 09:28:22 PM »

My problem with Dawkins is that he's not a philosopher; he's an evolutionary biologist. He's great when he's writing in his field. He's abysmally inadequate when he tries to champion the cause against religion because a few loud fundamentalists sent him hate mail for saying their grandpa evolved from a chimp. Instead of ignoring the extremists, he ended up becoming one himself.

I read both "The God Delusion and "god is not great" when I left religion the first time. "god is not great" is better written, but it's still, well... "not great." Tongue Hitchens was exposed to a very particular brand of religion growing up, and decides to write a personal attack on ALL forms of religion, even the ones to which he has not been adequately exposed. To lump fundamentalist non-denominationalism with Eastern Orthodox is ridiculous; to lump those two with jihadist Islam is  Shocked

I think the term "pop atheism" is apt. Just as we have "pop scientists" and "pop psychologists," the pop atheists are here for those who want to take a stance but don't want to be bothered with any real amount of research or reflection.

Hitchens was raised nominally as an Anglican, I believe, and attended Christian boarding schools and the experience apparently left him with no strong religious feelings.  His first wife was a Greek Cypriot and he was, in fact, married in the Orthodox Church.  If memory serves, he really didn't begin to speak out against religion until his friend Salman Rusdie was made the subject of a fatwa from the Ayatolla Khomenei. As an aside, he found out late in life that his mother was Jewish.
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« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2013, 05:19:24 AM »

Dawkins is insufferable and too British.

Too British? There's no such thing as "too British". One can never be too British.

If you drive on the left even on the mainland, you're too British.

No, that makes you totally awesome. Grin
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« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2013, 07:22:48 AM »

I wonder if people's own experience of this intrinsic need for God is more convincing than an apologetic argument.

For me the apologetics worked.
Arguments in favor of the existence of God? Or arguments in favor of Orthodoxy over other forms of Christianity? Or both?
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« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2013, 07:22:48 AM »

My problem with Dawkins is that he's not a philosopher; he's an evolutionary biologist. He's great when he's writing in his field. He's abysmally inadequate when he tries to champion the cause against religion because a few loud fundamentalists sent him hate mail for saying their grandpa evolved from a chimp. Instead of ignoring the extremists, he ended up becoming one himself.

I read both "The God Delusion and "god is not great" when I left religion the first time. "god is not great" is better written, but it's still, well... "not great." Tongue Hitchens was exposed to a very particular brand of religion growing up, and decides to write a personal attack on ALL forms of religion, even the ones to which he has not been adequately exposed. To lump fundamentalist non-denominationalism with Eastern Orthodox is ridiculous; to lump those two with jihadist Islam is  Shocked

I think the term "pop atheism" is apt. Just as we have "pop scientists" and "pop psychologists," the pop atheists are here for those who want to take a stance but don't want to be bothered with any real amount of research or reflection.
I also read "The God Delusion," and was terribly unimpressed. Even if one disagrees with the arguments from the existence of God, one should at least report those proofs accurately. When Dawkins summarizes Aquinas' arguments, he misrepresents them entirely. I'm not sure if this is because Dawkins is ignorant or dishonest.
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« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2013, 08:43:49 AM »

Thank you for all the replies, friends. I enjoyed reading them.

Were any of you previously fans of the so-called "New Atheists" like Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett, or Harris?

I remain something of a fan of all but Dennett. Dawkins is a brilliant science writer, and let's face it, he makes some good points regarding religion, too (even if he usually picks on its most shallow and/or extremist expressions). Hitchens is witty and merciless, which makes for entertaining reading. I enjoy watching him debate. Sam Harris may be my favorite of the bunch. He is now studying neuroscience and consciousness, and practices meditation. His studies have made him sympathetic to some eastern religion (the more or less "Godless" varieties, of course: Jainism, Theravada and Zen Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta). In my opinion, he is on the brink of holding a perennialist view, which could very well lead him to a proper exploration of Christian hesychasm and mysticism (academically, at least), and a deeper understanding of western mysticism in general. He has much of value to say regarding science and morality, too (see The Moral Landscape). Dennett, calling himself a "bright", and proposing that religious sites be kept open as museums or cultural zoos, is just too pompous for my tastes (not to mention I find his writing tiresome).
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« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2013, 01:14:57 PM »

I just wanted to add that the best bible study I've ever came across is on Ancient Faith Radio, "Searching the Scriptures" with Dr. Jeanne Constantinou.  The perscpective on the Bible in this radio show academically, historically, and spiritually is worth its weight in gold for someone like me who doesn' know the Bible well, and wants thorough explanations on what the Bible means to Orthodoxy.
I just began listening to her series. It is great!

great!  Smiley
I find that people like her who have been through the ringer of Academia and are still Orthodox particularly fascinating.  The argumentation is sharp as a tack and inspiring.
I think one unintentional pitfall Christians fall into when they defend the faith or try to convince someone of God's existence, is that athiests, agnostics etc don't view the Bible as a primary source of information.  It's just another book that is no more special than any other book.  So any reference to the Bible, whether it be from Genesis or the Gospel, it's basically 'so what?'  And honestly, the athiests have a point.  They are just stories if there is no faith on behalf the person reading them.
Another thing that I love about Orthodoxy is the importance of the Church.  There is a recognition that the Bible is a hard to read, contradictory,
and has meanings that are very hard for modern people to understand, and when Orthdoxy puts forth the reasons of how the Bible needs to be interprited in one particular way or another, they can back up those reasons with history, tradition, or just plain fact that it's a mystery.  I like the acknowlegement of mysteries.  It tells me that all of our modern discoveries do fit into the grand picture.  We're not just putting our heads in the sand when the next big scientific discovery is made.  We're also not handcuffing the possibilites of how God takes care of business by too much speculation.
 Smiley

 
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« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2013, 01:20:50 PM »

The strongest arguments for atheism IMO are made by Omar Khayyam, but it looks like the new pop atheists don't have any time for poetry. (And really, who does anymore?)

Care to share?

I think the newage crowd ruined my ability to take him seriously. Or perhaps that was someone else with a weird name.
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« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2013, 01:38:56 PM »

My conversion to the orthodox church was probably a unconsciously but necessary one. In knowing Christ our God through my own way of living, I realized that we live in a world where a huge market place of ideas/structures is claiming some form of authority and truth. My answer just through engaging in the orthodox church was wonderful and in the same sense life changing. Which church ultimately has the right to claim authority in a variant of different ways? Describing the trinity, gathering the scriptures, leading the truth of Christ against heresies and many other occasions in history didn´t need A people of God. Those historic moments needed THE people of God to in any form stomp the floor and say how it is, not for the best of our sake, but for Gods truth to be presented truthfully.

Now I realized that Gods grace was so tremendous by leading me to his church. Or else I maybe would give myself the authority to scream sola scriptura or anything else this day. Maybe start a church and claim that talking birds can become good pastors, what can hinder me Tongue This of course is a authority which many denominations give themselves today, affirming their own way of thinking before even asking who gave them that right to utter it :S
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« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2013, 01:44:33 PM »

What a beautiful story Ava, may God richly bless you as I really can feel your humility through the conversion :')
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« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2013, 01:44:51 PM »

What a beautiful story Ava, may God richly bless you as I really can feel your humility through the conversion :')
I grew up athiest with my dad, loved art and history.  One of the things that kept me from any Christianity was what I thought I knew at the time.  I had 2 sets of Ned Flanders surrounding my house who was constantly talking about God yet their kids always seemed to get into trouble.  All I knew at the time was that Christianity consisted of people on TV with way too much makeup crying for money only to find out they've had mulitiple affairs and lived not to their teachings.  All the while my dad always taught me good morals including pro-life positions and such.  Why would I need some Church?

As I got older I wanted to believe in something, anything but something that could truely standup with conviction.  I hadn't a clue what East Orthodoxy was until a couple of years ago, and when I did, I fell in love with the traditions.
I think what Orthodoxy did to change me was the veneration of the Virgin Mary along with the ideas of what sin is.  Those concepts were drastically different than anything I've ever heard of.  Finally there was a place that respected women at the highest degree.  Additionally I refuse to believe even to this day that we are guilty of anything when we are born.  The "missing of the mark" seems so much more accurate to cause.   From there I really got into it.
As of now sometimes I still struggle, but I know it's Orthodoxy or nothing at all for me.  I've even experienced what might be considered a miracle or two in the past couple of months, but I think I am beginning to understand what Christ's teachings mean without feeling brainwashed or compromising who I am.
I have to back off of modern apologetics sometimes because some of the argumentation is contradictory, and it causes me to not believe a lot of what is said.  But when I experience the church itself and what the services do, it is a whole other experience for me; it's more personal and no "noise" so to speak from outside talk.  An Orthodox church feels spiritual, and I love it everytime I go.
 Smiley
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« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2013, 01:46:13 PM »

I really need to know how the quoting system works, can anyone help me how to add a blue box with the quote? So i can comment beneath it without making 2 different quotes or posts
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« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2013, 02:07:20 PM »

I really need to know how the quoting system works, can anyone help me how to add a blue box with the quote? So i can comment beneath it without making 2 different quotes or posts

The easiest way to learn this stuff is to "quote" reply to post which has the formatting of whatever kind you would like and look at what the tags are in that quote.

For example, quoting you:

Code:
[quote author=Jovan link=topic=51334.msg921331#msg921331 date=1368207973]
I really need to know how the quoting system works, can anyone help me how to add a blue box with the quote? So i can comment beneath it without making 2 different quotes or posts
[/quote]

I used the code tag to show the quote tag without the software rendering the quote tag as a quote.
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« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2013, 02:11:12 PM »

I really need to know how the quoting system works, can anyone help me how to add a blue box with the quote? So i can comment beneath it without making 2 different quotes or posts

In general when handling multiple quotes, I think it is best to keep it "inline" and responding to one post per reply.

When people reply inline to multiple posts and persons in one post, I find that makes for a lot of oversight in reading on the parts of many and introduces a greater chance of broken quotes down the road if others aren't careful in replying.

Don't worry, some people still can't quote properly after 5k posts.

A tabbed browser and losta copying and pasting is your friend. If you posts look wacky, I'll give you more specific instructions, but I gotta run!
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« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2013, 02:17:26 PM »

The strongest arguments for atheism IMO are made by Omar Khayyam, but it looks like the new pop atheists don't have any time for poetry. (And really, who does anymore?)

Care to share?

Here you go... there are four editions to choose from.

Quote
I think the newage crowd ruined my ability to take him seriously. Or perhaps that was someone else with a weird name.

$10 says it was Rumi, or Hafiz.
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« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2013, 02:18:51 PM »

"Testing, testing" Tongue

AHH YEAH I GOT IT. Thanks mate i owe you big times, may God bless you richly dear friend Cheesy

« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 02:51:59 PM by Jovan » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2013, 02:54:25 PM »

Quote
In general when handling multiple quotes, I think it is best to keep it "inline" and responding to one post per reply.

"Testing, testing" Tongue

AHH YEAH I GOT IT. Thanks mate i owe you big times, may God bless you richly dear friend Cheesy

Any way i can remove any quoties/posts that went wrong? But i think i grasp it a bit now Tongue

Quote
In general when handling multiple quotes, I think it is best to keep it "inline" and responding to one post per reply.
Bla bla bla
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 03:10:54 PM by Jovan » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2013, 04:33:22 PM »

Although I haven't become Orthodox (yet!) I am a repeat atheist-to-Catholic-to-atheist-to-Catholic-to-atheist-to ... (you get the point!  Grin ) and would just like to say re: apologetics:

1. It really really really helps to have actually read what the atheists you're critiquing have actually said in their books, rather than what you heard someone tell you they said. Because people who become atheists out of Christianity do tend to read the books.

2. Grammar and spelling are extremely important. Misspelling "atheist", for example, is very likely to elicit at least a sigh of exasperation on the part of potential con/reverts. Believe me, they are combing your posts and/or writings looking for any errors AT ALL so they'll have an excuse to dismiss your arguments.

3. Don't use stupid urban legends (like those multiple variations of the story about the erudite Darwinian professor who gets shown up in class for the fool that he is by an innocent question from a brave Christian student) in your "apologetics" - they're SO easy to discredit and dismiss.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head ...  Cool  have a great weekend everyone!  Smiley
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« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2013, 07:03:26 PM »

Even though I'm re-reading Mere Christianity at the moment, I don't really like apologetics of any sort. At the end of the day, I remain a believer because I feel God in my life, not because of any brilliant argument I read.
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« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2013, 07:07:02 PM »

Even though I'm re-reading Mere Christianity at the moment, I don't really like apologetics of any sort. At the end of the day, I remain a believer because I feel God in my life, not because of any brilliant argument I read.
It's a really bad book IMO. I was severely disappointed by it and Lewis' apologetics in general. I think he wrote a book on the problem of pain or something that was pretty good. Haven't read Abolition of Man in a while.

I don't think you need to read much apologetics.
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« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2013, 02:36:35 AM »

Even though I'm re-reading Mere Christianity at the moment, I don't really like apologetics of any sort. At the end of the day, I remain a believer because I feel God in my life, not because of any brilliant argument I read.
I am at a point in life where I feel stuck. I am unable to believe reason alone will lead me to faith, but relying on feelings seems subjective. I think it is plain that both feeling and reason are necessary, but to what extent? Anyways, I am just really confused about how I can even get faith anymore.
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« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2013, 03:15:55 AM »

I think it is plain that both feeling and reason are necessary, but to what extent? Anyways, I am just really confused about how I can even get faith anymore.

Faith dies out if you don't act on it. Reading and reasoning alone cannot nourish it.
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« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2013, 09:35:55 AM »

Although I haven't become Orthodox (yet!) I am a repeat atheist-to-Catholic-to-atheist-to-Catholic-to-atheist-to ... (you get the point!  Grin ) and would just like to say re: apologetics:

1. It really really really helps to have actually read what the atheists you're critiquing have actually said in their books, rather than what you heard someone tell you they said. Because people who become atheists out of Christianity do tend to read the books.

2. Grammar and spelling are extremely important. Misspelling "atheist", for example, is very likely to elicit at least a sigh of exasperation on the part of potential con/reverts. Believe me, they are combing your posts and/or writings looking for any errors AT ALL so they'll have an excuse to dismiss your arguments.

3. Don't use stupid urban legends (like those multiple variations of the story about the erudite Darwinian professor who gets shown up in class for the fool that he is by an innocent question from a brave Christian student) in your "apologetics" - they're SO easy to discredit and dismiss.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head ...  Cool  have a great weekend everyone!  Smiley

Tamato, tomato, yeah yeah yeah... just kidding  Grin
I'm guilty of that.  Was wondering why "athiest" just didn't look right in my speed typing laziness.
You're definitely right on all counts  Smiley
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« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2013, 11:12:02 AM »

Even though I'm re-reading Mere Christianity at the moment, I don't really like apologetics of any sort. At the end of the day, I remain a believer because I feel God in my life, not because of any brilliant argument I read.
I am at a point in life where I feel stuck. I am unable to believe reason alone will lead me to faith, but relying on feelings seems subjective. I think it is plain that both feeling and reason are necessary, but to what extent? Anyways, I am just really confused about how I can even get faith anymore.


I do not believe these are the only two paths, reason and feelings. There is enough reasonable evidence in all the realms of human inquiry, from history to philosophy to cosmology, that could make anyone not feel squeamish about reaching out to God. But there is a host of things we must do in order for a real experience of God to take place. God does not meet us on our terms. We are not justified in rejecting Him merely because He doesn't meet our expectations or do what we please. Father Thomas Hopko touches on this, with these "10 Essential Conditions for Coming to Know God's Truth."

1. The belief that the truth of things can be known, and the desire to know the truth and to do it, wherever it leads, is most essential. Indeed it is everything. When people have this desire and seek truth in order to do it, and are ready to do it whatever it takes to find it, know it and do it, God promises that they will find, and understand and live. In a sense, this desire and seeking is all that is necessary.

2. The seeking person must read the New Testament through, slowly and without judgment of details, at least two or three times, taking the time needed to do this. They should let go of what is not clear, and focus on what they can understand, what is clear to them. It would also be helpful to read a Psalm or two everyday.

3. The person must pray, as they can. If they claim to be Christian, at least somehow, they should say the Lord’s Prayer, and other prayers of the Church tradition, and attend Liturgical services, without serving or singing or reading. If they are not Christians, or are unsure, they must at least pray, “to whom it may concern,” saying something like, “if you are there, teach me, lead me, guide me…”

4. The person must eat good foods in moderation. A couple of days a week (like Wed and Fri) the person should fast; eating much less than usual. During this search the person should abstain from all alcohol, tobacco and drugs. Except a minimal amount of wine with meals. If overeating or drinking, smoking or drug-taking is a problem, the seeker must get formal help, like, for example, a 12 step program.

5. The person should abstain from all sexual activity unless they are married and expressing love (and not just having sex). There should be no TV or Internet porn. If sex is an addictive problem, they must take steps to get formal help.

6. The person should sit alone and still in silence for at least a half hour each day. They should watch their thoughts, but not engage them. They should say a very short prayer while doing them, to avoid engaging their thoughts.

7. The person should give at least a couple of hours a week to charitable work, and should give away some of their money (if they can) in a sacrificial way. They should do this, as far as possible, without anyone knowing what they are doing.

8. The person should open their life fully to at least one other trustworthy person, telling absolutely everything, without editing or hiding anything: their thoughts, dreams, temptations, actions, sins, fears, anxieties, etc.

9. The person must regularly talk with someone trustworthy specifically about their family of origin: their family history going back as far as possible, their childhood, relations with their parents and grandparents and siblings, their spiritual and religious history, their sexual history, education, etc.

10. The person must find a community of friends with whom to struggle to know the truth and to find life. The search cannot be done alone. We need each other.
Source: http://frjamescoles.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/10-essential-conditions-for-coming-to-know-god’s-truth-and-finding-life-by-fr-tom-hopko/
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« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2013, 12:08:58 PM »

The strongest arguments for atheism IMO are made by Omar Khayyam, but it looks like the new pop atheists don't have any time for poetry. (And really, who does anymore?)

Care to share?

Here you go... there are four editions to choose from.

Quote
I think the newage crowd ruined my ability to take him seriously. Or perhaps that was someone else with a weird name.

$10 says it was Rumi, or Hafiz.
Based solely on weird names, Kahlil Gibran is a better fit.
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« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2013, 01:18:16 PM »

The strongest arguments for atheism IMO are made by Omar Khayyam, but it looks like the new pop atheists don't have any time for poetry. (And really, who does anymore?)

Care to share?

Here you go... there are four editions to choose from.

Quote
I think the newage crowd ruined my ability to take him seriously. Or perhaps that was someone else with a weird name.

$10 says it was Rumi, or Hafiz.
Based solely on weird names, Kahlil Gibran is a better fit.

You won the $10. That's right.
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« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2013, 03:31:10 PM »

Al-jazeera - The Jewish Dervish
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« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2013, 06:15:10 PM »

Even though I'm re-reading Mere Christianity at the moment, I don't really like apologetics of any sort. At the end of the day, I remain a believer because I feel God in my life, not because of any brilliant argument I read.
It's a really bad book IMO. I was severely disappointed by it and Lewis' apologetics in general. I think he wrote a book on the problem of pain or something that was pretty good. Haven't read Abolition of Man in a while.

I don't think you need to read much apologetics.

I'm mostly just reading it because I got a collection of his writings for cheap at the used book store and wanted to read everything that came with it. Smiley
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« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2013, 06:32:24 PM »

Even though I'm re-reading Mere Christianity at the moment, I don't really like apologetics of any sort. At the end of the day, I remain a believer because I feel God in my life, not because of any brilliant argument I read.
It's a really bad book IMO. I was severely disappointed by it and Lewis' apologetics in general. I think he wrote a book on the problem of pain or something that was pretty good. Haven't read Abolition of Man in a while.

I don't think you need to read much apologetics.
I think it is good, considering his objective and audience.
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« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2013, 07:13:38 PM »

The strongest arguments for atheism IMO are made by Omar Khayyam, but it looks like the new pop atheists don't have any time for poetry. (And really, who does anymore?)

Care to share?

Here you go... there are four editions to choose from.

Quote
I think the newage crowd ruined my ability to take him seriously. Or perhaps that was someone else with a weird name.

$10 says it was Rumi, or Hafiz.
Based solely on weird names, Kahlil Gibran is a better fit.

You won the $10. That's right.

I just donated the amount to the forum. The notion is that I would not be posting in this forum, if it were not for the presence of Iconodule, Xariskai (sp?), Jetavan, Asteriktos, etc. I am keeping this short otherwise you would get my overly emotional idealizations.
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« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2013, 09:19:55 PM »

Even though I'm re-reading Mere Christianity at the moment, I don't really like apologetics of any sort. At the end of the day, I remain a believer because I feel God in my life, not because of any brilliant argument I read.
It's a really bad book IMO. I was severely disappointed by it and Lewis' apologetics in general. I think he wrote a book on the problem of pain or something that was pretty good. Haven't read Abolition of Man in a while.

I don't think you need to read much apologetics.

The Abolition of Man was always one of my favorites of his non-fiction work (the other being The Four Loves). Mere Christianity is a good read, insofar as I like Lewis' conversational tone, but hardly the "checkmate" apologetic work that many Evangelicals seem to think it is. Some how I managed to miss Letters to Malcolm in my years of collecting and giving away and recollecting his work, but I'm reading through it right now- if there is one book of his that almost deserves the "Lewis was crypto-Orthodox" claims, it's that one.
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« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2013, 10:43:19 AM »

I was an atheist from my late teens to my mid 30s. I bought into Marxist materialist philosophy
at University. I was active on the left for many years.I had to eventually confront my alcoholism, and went to AA.
After repeated failures to get sober,I was advised that it was not possible to get sober in a spiritual programme, if I did not abandon my
prideful disdain of all religious/spiritual concepts. I started to pray the serenity prayer, and gradually the more I prayed the stronger I got.
Since I was brought up RC, it was a Christian concept of God that I reverted to, though I was deeply sceptical.
Gradually as my life improved and I stayed sober,I concluded that something was giving me the power to stay sober.
I knew it wasn't me so I had to decide it was just AA's collective strength or God. I had tried using AA's 'collective strength'
before and had failed. However when my illness really humbled me, losing my means of employment and my family
my self will and self reliance was shattered, I was humbled. I had to reach out to something else. I slowly recovered.
I slowly came to believe that God had been helping me and in fact had never abandoned me...I had turned my back on him.
As the years went by I got stronger and stronger, thank God, the longer I stayed sober.
I was active in AA, and had been sober well over 7 years, when I tried to formally reconcile with the RC Church.
However, since my marriage had ended and my ex wife had by then moved on, I was told I could never receive Holy Eucharist again.

I had almost resigned myself to being unreconciled with the RC Church, and I started to find myself unable to reconcile with it.

One day whilst travelling,  I tried to recollect the most profoundly moving spiritual sense that had impinged upon me in my years
as an Atheist. I was looking at a waste land of profanity and worldliness, but in my encounters with the RC church in those years
I had just been left unmoved everytime I had entered the RC Churches for family weddings, baptisms, even Mass when visiting parents...it had
left me cold
I then recalled that sometime in my early twenties I had engaged in an Academic exchange with Moscow. In the course of this I got to know a wonderful Russian young woman, Natalia ( Natasha). Eventually, I was invited to visit her family at their summer house in the woods ( dacha).
This being the 1980s the family had no evidence of religious belief in their Moscow flat, so I was a little surprised when I
saw three icons on the wall of the Dacha. That Sunday I was taken to a Divine Liturgy in a packed tiny Chapel in the woods.
I was transfixed by it....even though as an Atheist I dismissed this feeling as being a soppy romanticism.
However in the subsequent years of Atheism I made a point of visiting Church's when in Greece. I got great peace there.
After realising that I was still uncomfortable with many aspects of the RC Church, I met an Orthodox person whilst walking in
Spain. She sent me an Icon. After a year of looking at the Icon, I decided to investigate Orthodoxy. I spoke to an Orthodox
Priest, who told me to take 6 months out and read and think and pray. Particularly he asked me to write down if Orthodoxy
had impinged upon my life in my years of Atheism. When we met again I had written about the Church in Russia and my love
of the quiet Greek Churches, and the Icon.  He said that the 'Holy Spirit' had been knocking on your door, but it took you 20 years
to answer it". I  became a catachumen after a further 6 months of consideration. I was a Catachumen for about a year. I was
chrismated on the Eve of Theophany a number of years ago. I am very at home in Orthodoxy, Glory be to God.
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« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2013, 01:52:57 PM »

I was an atheist...
What a wonderful story, finbar. Thank you for sharing it.
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« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2013, 10:19:00 AM »

Im on my way.
I was a firm atheist who after following the logic of ultimate materialism & moral relativism went to it's ultimate conclusion which for me was to inject myself with Heroin as much as possible to get through the days until the dau when I would finallyu decide to inject the amount guaranteed to kill off a human.

Fortunately for my soul, God had other plans for me and I can now see that the further away from God I turned my face, the further down the depths of darkness I plunged. I remember when I was a child that I somehow "knew" there was One God who have created all & that I very much wanted follow His will. But the way things are in the western world right now is that the left side of the ideological spectrum have ideologican monopoly over the most important societal institutions so the brainwashing into supreme materialism begins at school or even kindergarten and when you grow up in an agnostic family with no connection to the historical spirituality of their forefathers (in my case lutheranism) it's very hard for a child to not be affected by these attitudes and the eternal praisings of only one side of the argument

I was forced to clean up at a government funded rehab for 6 months and as the poison slowly left my body during about 2 weeks I started to have very profound spiritual dreams and psychological break-downs during daytime. I was automatically biased against christianity as a faith because of todays education but after reading the Quran and the Bible it was clear to me that the only text containing spiritual wisdom was the Holy Bible!!
What I missed in christianity (especially western) was spiritual sustenance. It seemed to me like a social club or even a corporation where one met with like-minded idealists and decided how to organize a group while leaving out all practical spirituality. It was only through my research of monasticism and church fathers that I came down to realize that the ancient spiritual wealth of the historical church which to me seemed water down to mere theories was only present in the Orthodox church and the eastern catholic churches.

I have not yet converted as the only church in my town celebrate lithurgy in a foreign language :/
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« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2013, 10:26:10 AM »

I was an atheist from my late teens to my mid 30s. I bought into Marxist materialist philosophy
at University. I was active on the left for many years.I had to eventually confront my alcoholism, and went to AA.
After repeated failures to get sober,I was advised that it was not possible to get sober in a spiritual programme, if I did not abandon my
prideful disdain of all religious/spiritual concepts. I started to pray the serenity prayer, and gradually the more I prayed the stronger I got.
Since I was brought up RC, it was a Christian concept of God that I reverted to, though I was deeply sceptical.
Gradually as my life improved and I stayed sober,I concluded that something was giving me the power to stay sober.
I knew it wasn't me so I had to decide it was just AA's collective strength or God. I had tried using AA's 'collective strength'
before and had failed. However when my illness really humbled me, losing my means of employment and my family
my self will and self reliance was shattered, I was humbled. I had to reach out to something else. I slowly recovered.
I slowly came to believe that God had been helping me and in fact had never abandoned me...I had turned my back on him.
As the years went by I got stronger and stronger, thank God, the longer I stayed sober.
I was active in AA, and had been sober well over 7 years, when I tried to formally reconcile with the RC Church.
However, since my marriage had ended and my ex wife had by then moved on, I was told I could never receive Holy Eucharist again.

I had almost resigned myself to being unreconciled with the RC Church, and I started to find myself unable to reconcile with it.

One day whilst travelling,  I tried to recollect the most profoundly moving spiritual sense that had impinged upon me in my years
as an Atheist. I was looking at a waste land of profanity and worldliness, but in my encounters with the RC church in those years
I had just been left unmoved everytime I had entered the RC Churches for family weddings, baptisms, even Mass when visiting parents...it had
left me cold
I then recalled that sometime in my early twenties I had engaged in an Academic exchange with Moscow. In the course of this I got to know a wonderful Russian young woman, Natalia ( Natasha). Eventually, I was invited to visit her family at their summer house in the woods ( dacha).
This being the 1980s the family had no evidence of religious belief in their Moscow flat, so I was a little surprised when I
saw three icons on the wall of the Dacha. That Sunday I was taken to a Divine Liturgy in a packed tiny Chapel in the woods.
I was transfixed by it....even though as an Atheist I dismissed this feeling as being a soppy romanticism.
However in the subsequent years of Atheism I made a point of visiting Church's when in Greece. I got great peace there.
After realising that I was still uncomfortable with many aspects of the RC Church, I met an Orthodox person whilst walking in
Spain. She sent me an Icon. After a year of looking at the Icon, I decided to investigate Orthodoxy. I spoke to an Orthodox
Priest, who told me to take 6 months out and read and think and pray. Particularly he asked me to write down if Orthodoxy
had impinged upon my life in my years of Atheism. When we met again I had written about the Church in Russia and my love
of the quiet Greek Churches, and the Icon.  He said that the 'Holy Spirit' had been knocking on your door, but it took you 20 years
to answer it". I  became a catachumen after a further 6 months of consideration. I was a Catachumen for about a year. I was
chrismated on the Eve of Theophany a number of years ago. I am very at home in Orthodoxy, Glory be to God.

Your story makes me smile on a day which is very difficult for me. God bless you! + Glory to God in all things! +
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The meaning of life is to acquire the grace of the Holy Spirit.
Saint Seraphim of Sarov

Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)

+ Glory be to God for all things! +
Jovan
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« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2013, 11:13:01 AM »

I was an atheist from my late teens to my mid 30s. I bought into Marxist materialist philosophy
at University. I was active on the left for many years.I had to eventually confront my alcoholism, and went to AA.
After repeated failures to get sober,I was advised that it was not possible to get sober in a spiritual programme, if I did not abandon my
prideful disdain of all religious/spiritual concepts. I started to pray the serenity prayer, and gradually the more I prayed the stronger I got.
Since I was brought up RC, it was a Christian concept of God that I reverted to, though I was deeply sceptical.
Gradually as my life improved and I stayed sober,I concluded that something was giving me the power to stay sober.
I knew it wasn't me so I had to decide it was just AA's collective strength or God. I had tried using AA's 'collective strength'
before and had failed. However when my illness really humbled me, losing my means of employment and my family
my self will and self reliance was shattered, I was humbled. I had to reach out to something else. I slowly recovered.
I slowly came to believe that God had been helping me and in fact had never abandoned me...I had turned my back on him.
As the years went by I got stronger and stronger, thank God, the longer I stayed sober.
I was active in AA, and had been sober well over 7 years, when I tried to formally reconcile with the RC Church.
However, since my marriage had ended and my ex wife had by then moved on, I was told I could never receive Holy Eucharist again.

I had almost resigned myself to being unreconciled with the RC Church, and I started to find myself unable to reconcile with it.

One day whilst travelling,  I tried to recollect the most profoundly moving spiritual sense that had impinged upon me in my years
as an Atheist. I was looking at a waste land of profanity and worldliness, but in my encounters with the RC church in those years
I had just been left unmoved everytime I had entered the RC Churches for family weddings, baptisms, even Mass when visiting parents...it had
left me cold
I then recalled that sometime in my early twenties I had engaged in an Academic exchange with Moscow. In the course of this I got to know a wonderful Russian young woman, Natalia ( Natasha). Eventually, I was invited to visit her family at their summer house in the woods ( dacha).
This being the 1980s the family had no evidence of religious belief in their Moscow flat, so I was a little surprised when I
saw three icons on the wall of the Dacha. That Sunday I was taken to a Divine Liturgy in a packed tiny Chapel in the woods.
I was transfixed by it....even though as an Atheist I dismissed this feeling as being a soppy romanticism.
However in the subsequent years of Atheism I made a point of visiting Church's when in Greece. I got great peace there.
After realising that I was still uncomfortable with many aspects of the RC Church, I met an Orthodox person whilst walking in
Spain. She sent me an Icon. After a year of looking at the Icon, I decided to investigate Orthodoxy. I spoke to an Orthodox
Priest, who told me to take 6 months out and read and think and pray. Particularly he asked me to write down if Orthodoxy
had impinged upon my life in my years of Atheism. When we met again I had written about the Church in Russia and my love
of the quiet Greek Churches, and the Icon.  He said that the 'Holy Spirit' had been knocking on your door, but it took you 20 years
to answer it". I  became a catachumen after a further 6 months of consideration. I was a Catachumen for about a year. I was
chrismated on the Eve of Theophany a number of years ago. I am very at home in Orthodoxy, Glory be to God.

What a journey my dear brother in Christ, your text really reveals the strength you gained from God, Glory be to his holy and loving name.

I ask that you please pray for me beloved brother, that your strong faith and soul can bring me to 1 % closer to your level of faith.
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« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2013, 06:16:31 PM »

Even though I'm re-reading Mere Christianity at the moment, I don't really like apologetics of any sort. At the end of the day, I remain a believer because I feel God in my life, not because of any brilliant argument I read.
It's a really bad book IMO. I was severely disappointed by it and Lewis' apologetics in general. I think he wrote a book on the problem of pain or something that was pretty good. Haven't read Abolition of Man in a while.

I don't think you need to read much apologetics.
It's pretty good if you don't take it as much more than it purports to be: A very short Christianity 101 type text. It's not a very detailed apologetic, and the apologetics it contains are fairly weak. (The ever popular Trilemma hinges on the premise that every quote attributed to Jesus in the Gospels is genuine, which is easy enough to reject.) But if you don't approach it as an apologetics book, there's some good stuff in there.
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