OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 25, 2014, 05:35:30 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Being gay is a choice?  (Read 6981 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 13,096


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2013, 11:06:36 PM »

Yes, homosexuality is a choice. If it was not a choice, then "conversion therapy", which tries to change one's sexual orientation would be nonsensical. The arguments for homosexuality not being a choice are the same as the arguments that autism cannot be cured. BTW, autistic people can change and live as normal people. If they are married and have a normal lifestyle, they are non-autistic for all practical intents and purposes, and should not have any impediments based on their former state. It is a choice whether to act on a homosexual orientation if one exists.

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

I also have known many couples, a surprisingly large number, where the guy is Gay but they find ways to make do and be happy.

I have a Woman friend who got dumped by her hubby. A few years later she found a girlfriend and moved in with her. I asked if she had always been Homosexual and she said no, but that this arrangement suits her now.

When I mentioned her in passing to a Gay relative of mine he got angry and insisted that you are born Homosexual. He was really offended that it was just a choice she made late in life..Spoiled the standard narrative I guess.

My Aunt was married for many years and had two kids. He died..she got a girlfriend and they lived together for many years..They broke up and now she has remarried a Man..

Interesting, Marc.  I think this might prove what I've always thought; that some choose to be homosexual, while others are born that way. 

People can be born with a strong desire. Desires can be controlled if you want to bad enough. You are born as either a Man or a Woman. There is no third type of person.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
montalban
Now in colour
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 1,813



« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2013, 11:06:48 PM »

The only threat that I perceive to that which you claim does not exist is...........................gay pandas.

Gay pandas are a problem, though. Pandas are on the verge of extinction. Homosexuality doesn't exactly help.

Are there any evolutionary theories to account for homosexuality? How would it be an advantage to have a homosexual group in any given population?



In a harem type social structure, or any one where women are objectivized and mating becomes a zero-sum game where the alpha males pass on their genes and beta males are kept out of the gene pool.  In these situations sexual urges still exist and the the lesser males sate themselves with each other.  In any sort of civilizational structure where the resources and output of the beta males must be harnessed monogamy is much more efficient.

I've never had my monogamy in a harness. That sounds too kinky
Logged

Fàilte dhut a Mhoire,
tha thu lan de na gràsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2013, 11:50:05 PM »

Yes, homosexuality is a choice. If it was not a choice, then "conversion therapy", which tries to change one's sexual orientation would be nonsensical. The arguments for homosexuality not being a choice are the same as the arguments that autism cannot be cured. BTW, autistic people can change and live as normal people. If they are married and have a normal lifestyle, they are non-autistic for all practical intents and purposes, and should not have any impediments based on their former state. It is a choice whether to act on a homosexual orientation if one exists.

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

Sure.
I also have known many couples, a surprisingly large number, where the guy is Gay but they find ways to make do and be happy.

I have a Woman friend who got dumped by her hubby. A few years later she found a girlfriend and moved in with her. I asked if she had always been Homosexual and she said no, but that this arrangement suits her now.

When I mentioned her in passing to a Gay relative of mine he got angry and insisted that you are born Homosexual. He was really offended that it was just a choice she made late in life..Spoiled the standard narrative I guess.

My Aunt was married for many years and had two kids. He died..she got a girlfriend and they lived together for many years..They broke up and now she has remarried a Man..

Interesting, Marc.  I think this might prove what I've always thought; that some choose to be homosexual, while others are born that way.  

People can be born with a strong desire. Desires can be controlled if you want to bad enough. You are born as either a Man or a Woman. There is no third type of person.

Sure.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:50:17 PM by JamesRottnek » Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2013, 11:55:36 PM »

First, the cause of homosexuality is unknown.

I have two gay friends who are both also, atheists.

I find it interesting that if they believe all we are is our genes, etc. then their orientation must also be genetic.

Some people are in fact searching for the gay gene

Great red herring.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
montalban
Now in colour
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 1,813



« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2013, 12:19:55 AM »

First, the cause of homosexuality is unknown.

I have two gay friends who are both also, atheists.

I find it interesting that if they believe all we are is our genes, etc. then their orientation must also be genetic.

Some people are in fact searching for the gay gene

Great red herring.

I'm not asking you to dispute this  Roll Eyes
Logged

Fàilte dhut a Mhoire,
tha thu lan de na gràsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
montalban
Now in colour
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 1,813



« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2013, 12:21:56 AM »

Yes, homosexuality is a choice. If it was not a choice, then "conversion therapy", which tries to change one's sexual orientation would be nonsensical. The arguments for homosexuality not being a choice are the same as the arguments that autism cannot be cured. BTW, autistic people can change and live as normal people. If they are married and have a normal lifestyle, they are non-autistic for all practical intents and purposes, and should not have any impediments based on their former state. It is a choice whether to act on a homosexual orientation if one exists.

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

Sure.
I also have known many couples, a surprisingly large number, where the guy is Gay but they find ways to make do and be happy.

I have a Woman friend who got dumped by her hubby. A few years later she found a girlfriend and moved in with her. I asked if she had always been Homosexual and she said no, but that this arrangement suits her now.

When I mentioned her in passing to a Gay relative of mine he got angry and insisted that you are born Homosexual. He was really offended that it was just a choice she made late in life..Spoiled the standard narrative I guess.

My Aunt was married for many years and had two kids. He died..she got a girlfriend and they lived together for many years..They broke up and now she has remarried a Man..

Interesting, Marc.  I think this might prove what I've always thought; that some choose to be homosexual, while others are born that way.  

People can be born with a strong desire. Desires can be controlled if you want to bad enough. You are born as either a Man or a Woman. There is no third type of person.

Sure.

Touché
Logged

Fàilte dhut a Mhoire,
tha thu lan de na gràsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
NicholasMyra
Avowed denominationalist
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 5,973


When in doubt, say: "you lack the proper φρόνημα"


« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2013, 01:05:40 AM »

Some Protestants cannot distinguish
Like the Protestants who wrote Exodus:

"Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?"

There are those for whom the therapy works and those for whom it does not.
Yep; it doesn't work for gay people.

Are there any evolutionary theories to account for homosexuality?
There are other sources of predisposition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation

In a harem type social structure, or any one where women are objectivized and mating becomes a zero-sum game where the alpha males pass on their genes and beta males are kept out of the gene pool.  In these situations sexual urges still exist and the the lesser males sate themselves with each other.  

Probably for the past 4.4 million years at least, hominids have not been primarily harem-based.

They have been pair-bonding serial monogamists.

We ain't chimps.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 01:07:30 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
vamrat
Vamratoraptor
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica
Posts: 7,838



« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2013, 09:03:43 AM »


In a harem type social structure, or any one where women are objectivized and mating becomes a zero-sum game where the alpha males pass on their genes and beta males are kept out of the gene pool.  In these situations sexual urges still exist and the the lesser males sate themselves with each other.  

Probably for the past 4.4 million years at least, hominids have not been primarily harem-based.

They have been pair-bonding serial monogamists.

We ain't chimps.

Ah yes, I remember reading that in the Saga of King TherewasnowritingbeforetheSumerians.  (You cut out the part where I mentioned civilizations.  They promote monogamy or fall apart.)
Logged
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2013, 09:26:46 AM »

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

Not me. Nobody "drops" being gay, unless they weren't really gay to begin with.
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2013, 09:28:26 AM »

The only threat that I perceive to that which you claim does not exist is...........................gay pandas.

Gay pandas are a problem, though. Pandas are on the verge of extinction. Homosexuality doesn't exactly help.

Are there any evolutionary theories to account for homosexuality? How would it be an advantage to have a homosexual group in any given population?



Yes. There are many instances of this in nature. Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2013, 09:30:37 AM »

Yes, homosexuality is a choice. If it was not a choice, then "conversion therapy", which tries to change one's sexual orientation would be nonsensical. The arguments for homosexuality not being a choice are the same as the arguments that autism cannot be cured. BTW, autistic people can change and live as normal people. If they are married and have a normal lifestyle, they are non-autistic for all practical intents and purposes, and should not have any impediments based on their former state. It is a choice whether to act on a homosexual orientation if one exists.

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

Sure.
I also have known many couples, a surprisingly large number, where the guy is Gay but they find ways to make do and be happy.

I have a Woman friend who got dumped by her hubby. A few years later she found a girlfriend and moved in with her. I asked if she had always been Homosexual and she said no, but that this arrangement suits her now.

When I mentioned her in passing to a Gay relative of mine he got angry and insisted that you are born Homosexual. He was really offended that it was just a choice she made late in life..Spoiled the standard narrative I guess.

My Aunt was married for many years and had two kids. He died..she got a girlfriend and they lived together for many years..They broke up and now she has remarried a Man..

Interesting, Marc.  I think this might prove what I've always thought; that some choose to be homosexual, while others are born that way.  

People can be born with a strong desire. Desires can be controlled if you want to bad enough. You are born as either a Man or a Woman. There is no third type of person.

Sure.

Is your "sure" the kind of "sure" that is in agreement with Marc's statement?  Or is it, as I'm tending to think it might be, the skeptical, sarcastic kind of "sure" that is attempting to mock his statement?

In either case, Marc is correct.  Well, almost, anyway....if one takes this into consideration.  But whether he's right or wrong is, for the purposes of this thread almost irrelevant.  Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  Except in cases of rape, how could it be otherwise?
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,713



« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2013, 09:35:04 AM »

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

Not me. Nobody "drops" being gay, unless they weren't really gay to begin with.

So it is kind of like OSAS?
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2013, 09:36:13 AM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice. 

I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2013, 09:36:29 AM »

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

Not me. Nobody "drops" being gay, unless they weren't really gay to begin with.

So it is kind of like OSAS?

OSAS?
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,713



« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2013, 09:39:26 AM »

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

Not me. Nobody "drops" being gay, unless they weren't really gay to begin with.

So it is kind of like OSAS?

OSAS?

Once saved, always saved doctrine.  Usually the response to an inquiry about someone who has fallen away from the faith is to say that they were never saved to begin with.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,713



« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2013, 09:40:10 AM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice. 

I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

I didn't act on them for 22 years before getting married.  I survived.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2013, 09:42:18 AM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice. 

I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

I didn't act on them for 22 years before getting married.  I survived.

Congratulations!
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
vamrat
Vamratoraptor
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica
Posts: 7,838



« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2013, 09:45:57 AM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  

I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

I didn't act on them for 22 years before getting married.  I survived.

But it's a lot harder for homosexuals to contain their urges than it is for heteros.  They are nothing but a bunch of sex crazed junkies who literally die if they aren't having sex.  Kinda like that sharks and swimming thing.

Well, maybe not the ones I know...but they aren't "real" homosexuals.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 09:46:25 AM by vamrat » Logged
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2013, 09:51:14 AM »

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

Not me. Nobody "drops" being gay, unless they weren't really gay to begin with.



So it is kind of like OSAS?

OSAS?

Once saved, always saved doctrine.  Usually the response to an inquiry about someone who has fallen away from the faith is to say that they were never saved to begin with.

No, not at ALL like that nonsense. Simply "dropping" one's homosexuality would be akin to simply "dropping" one's heterosexuality. That is why reparative therapy doesn't work, and causes greater problems in the long run. Such a simple and dismissive answer (just "drop" it!) to such complex human matters can only come from a position of ignorance.
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,713



« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2013, 10:09:58 AM »

I don't personally see being gay as something you can "drop", but I do think there is a certain amount of elasticity regarding sexual urges.  I have known gays who have told me that they chose to be gay because they have very high sex drives which were not sufficiently fulfilled by women, I have also known men who have stated that they just see nothing sexually attractive about women.  I think as with anything, people have different motives and desires and to paint gays/lesbians all with one brush and claim the all have a singular motivation for their urges is just as silly as saying they can just "drop" it whenever they want.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2013, 10:19:59 AM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  


I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

So you're saying there is no choice, that we are total unconscious slaves to our passions and lusts.  Well to the extent that we remove God from our lives, or try to be God without God, that's probably true.

As for you "dare"...I would probably fail miserably.  But, at least I act on my heterosexual urges within the context of marriage blessed by the Church.  Now...there are those who are able, with God's grace, to be celibate for many, many years.  Doesn't mean they do not have the urges, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily easy.  It just means that, with God, they can succeed in their choice not to act on them.  You see, according to the teachings of the Church, heterosexual activity within the context of marriage is not just permitted, but blessed, especially (but not only) if the purpose of it is procreation.  Homosexual activity, however, is not.  Have you read Romans, Ch. 1 lately?  Or John 15:1-7?  Or any of a number of other biblical passages?
 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 10:21:32 AM by J Michael » Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2013, 10:21:55 AM »

I don't personally see being gay as something you can "drop", but I do think there is a certain amount of elasticity regarding sexual urges.  I have known gays who have told me that they chose to be gay because they have very high sex drives which were not sufficiently fulfilled by women, I have also known men who have stated that they just see nothing sexually attractive about women.  I think as with anything, people have different motives and desires and to paint gays/lesbians all with one brush and claim the all have a singular motivation for their urges is just as silly as saying they can just "drop" it whenever they want.

Fair enough. It seems to me that these "gays" you have known are not the norm. I have had several straight friends with very high sex drives that have had no problem finding fulfillment by having sex with women! I think there's a little something else going on if you can turn to men for sexual gratification merely because women couldn't fulfill them. I had a very strong sex drive when I was younger. Never did having sex with a man cross my mind. But anyway, surely there are different manifestations of "gayness". Some people are merely dabblers who feel that there is nothing morally wrong with it. Others (as is sometimes the case with trampled women) have been hurt by men too much, and so turn to women. Etc, etc. So your point is well taken. I have been speaking about homosexuals that fit your second description; they simply don't find the opposite sex emotionally or sexually attractive, but do their own sex. I suppose these are the people that I would call "true gays", where as some people are just experimental, acting out in other ways, perverted and/or kinky.
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2013, 10:25:13 AM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  


I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

So you're saying there is no choice, that we are total unconscious slaves to our passions and lusts.  Well to the extent that we remove God from our lives, or try to be God without God, that's probably true.

As for you "dare"...I would probably fail miserably.  But, at least I act on my heterosexual urges within the context of marriage blessed by the Church.  Now...there are those who are able, with God's grace, to be celibate for many, many years.  Doesn't mean they do not have the urges, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily easy.  It just means that, with God, they can succeed in their choice not to act on them.  You see, according to the teachings of the Church, heterosexual activity within the context of marriage is not just permitted, but blessed, especially (but not only) if the purpose of it is procreation.  Homosexual activity, however, is not.  Have you read Romans, Ch. 1 lately?  Or John 15:1-7?  Or any of a number of other biblical passages?
 

Good. You act your urges out in the context of marriage blessed by the Church. Homosexuals (by and large) act out their urges outside of that context. See? No probs!

And very few people, straight or otherwise, are cut out for a life of celibacy.
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2013, 10:37:56 AM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  


I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

So you're saying there is no choice, that we are total unconscious slaves to our passions and lusts.  Well to the extent that we remove God from our lives, or try to be God without God, that's probably true.

As for you "dare"...I would probably fail miserably.  But, at least I act on my heterosexual urges within the context of marriage blessed by the Church.  Now...there are those who are able, with God's grace, to be celibate for many, many years.  Doesn't mean they do not have the urges, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily easy.  It just means that, with God, they can succeed in their choice not to act on them.  You see, according to the teachings of the Church, heterosexual activity within the context of marriage is not just permitted, but blessed, especially (but not only) if the purpose of it is procreation.  Homosexual activity, however, is not.  Have you read Romans, Ch. 1 lately?  Or John 15:1-7?  Or any of a number of other biblical passages?
 

Good. You act your urges out in the context of marriage blessed by the Church. Homosexuals (by and large) act out their urges outside of that context. See? No probs!

And very few people, straight or otherwise, are cut out for a life of celibacy.

The point is in the choosing whether or not to act out one's urges, homosexual or heterosexual.  If you or anyone else wants to act out your homosexual urges outside the context of marriage blessed by the Church (which, according to the Church is either the sin of fornication and/or adultery), that's your business and it's between you, your partner, and eventually, God.  Please keep it your business.  I don't need (or want) to know what goes on in someone else's bedroom.
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,713



« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2013, 10:43:04 AM »

I truly do not envy those who struggle with homosexual urges.  It would be a constant fight against one of nature's most basic instincts.  I can't even begin to imagine the guilt and frustration in that struggle and I think if we are honest with ourselves, I don't think the Church or Christianity in general does a very good job of helping them bear that burden.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #70 on: May 02, 2013, 10:47:46 AM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  


I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

So you're saying there is no choice, that we are total unconscious slaves to our passions and lusts.  Well to the extent that we remove God from our lives, or try to be God without God, that's probably true.

As for you "dare"...I would probably fail miserably.  But, at least I act on my heterosexual urges within the context of marriage blessed by the Church.  Now...there are those who are able, with God's grace, to be celibate for many, many years.  Doesn't mean they do not have the urges, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily easy.  It just means that, with God, they can succeed in their choice not to act on them.  You see, according to the teachings of the Church, heterosexual activity within the context of marriage is not just permitted, but blessed, especially (but not only) if the purpose of it is procreation.  Homosexual activity, however, is not.  Have you read Romans, Ch. 1 lately?  Or John 15:1-7?  Or any of a number of other biblical passages?
 

Good. You act your urges out in the context of marriage blessed by the Church. Homosexuals (by and large) act out their urges outside of that context. See? No probs!

And very few people, straight or otherwise, are cut out for a life of celibacy.

The point is in the choosing whether or not to act out one's urges, homosexual or heterosexual.  If you or anyone else wants to act out your homosexual urges outside the context of marriage blessed by the Church (which, according to the Church is either the sin of fornication and/or adultery), that's your business and it's between you, your partner, and eventually, God.  Please keep it your business.  I don't need (or want) to know what goes on in someone else's bedroom.

Sure. I'm happily married to a woman, fyi, and I don't think anyone here is telling you about their bedroom habits. If you don't want to know or think about what goes on in others' bedrooms, then forget about itSmiley
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2013, 10:51:54 AM »

I truly do not envy those who struggle with homosexual urges.  It would be a constant fight against one of nature's most basic instincts.  I can't even begin to imagine the guilt and frustration in that struggle and I think if we are honest with ourselves, I don't think the Church or Christianity in general does a very good job of helping them bear that burden.

Well said. Hear, hear.
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2013, 10:56:29 AM »

I truly do not envy those who struggle with homosexual urges.  It would be a constant fight against one of nature's most basic instincts.  I can't even begin to imagine the guilt and frustration in that struggle and I think if we are honest with ourselves, I don't think the Church or Christianity in general does a very good job of helping them bear that burden.

I agree with you (though I'm not entirely certain that homosexual activity is one of nature's most basic instincts--I just do not know).  The struggle against many (all??) sinful urges can be hugely difficult and require gargantuan effort.  How well the Church or Christianity helps us bear our burdens (and we all have them, to be sure) depends on a number of factors, not the least of which is our own willingness to name and claim our sinful urges, and especially our sinful acts, and to repent of them--if necessary, over and over again. 

Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2013, 11:01:32 AM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  


I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

So you're saying there is no choice, that we are total unconscious slaves to our passions and lusts.  Well to the extent that we remove God from our lives, or try to be God without God, that's probably true.

As for you "dare"...I would probably fail miserably.  But, at least I act on my heterosexual urges within the context of marriage blessed by the Church.  Now...there are those who are able, with God's grace, to be celibate for many, many years.  Doesn't mean they do not have the urges, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily easy.  It just means that, with God, they can succeed in their choice not to act on them.  You see, according to the teachings of the Church, heterosexual activity within the context of marriage is not just permitted, but blessed, especially (but not only) if the purpose of it is procreation.  Homosexual activity, however, is not.  Have you read Romans, Ch. 1 lately?  Or John 15:1-7?  Or any of a number of other biblical passages?
 

Good. You act your urges out in the context of marriage blessed by the Church. Homosexuals (by and large) act out their urges outside of that context. See? No probs!

And very few people, straight or otherwise, are cut out for a life of celibacy.

The point is in the choosing whether or not to act out one's urges, homosexual or heterosexual.  If you or anyone else wants to act out your homosexual urges outside the context of marriage blessed by the Church (which, according to the Church is either the sin of fornication and/or adultery), that's your business and it's between you, your partner, and eventually, God.  Please keep it your business.  I don't need (or want) to know what goes on in someone else's bedroom.

Sure. I'm happily married to a woman, fyi, and I don't think anyone here is telling you about their bedroom habits. If you don't want to know or think about what goes on in others' bedrooms, then forget about itSmiley

I'm very happy for you--sincerely so!

I'd love to "forget" about, not know about what goes on in others' bedrooms, but unfortunately, there are any number of people "out there" in the world who keep thrusting their behavior in our faces--difficult to totally avoid without becoming a total recluse.  Sad  But I try.....
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,713



« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2013, 11:02:03 AM »

I truly do not envy those who struggle with homosexual urges.  It would be a constant fight against one of nature's most basic instincts.  I can't even begin to imagine the guilt and frustration in that struggle and I think if we are honest with ourselves, I don't think the Church or Christianity in general does a very good job of helping them bear that burden.

I agree with you (though I'm not entirely certain that homosexual activity is one of nature's most basic instincts--I just do not know).  The struggle against many (all??) sinful urges can be hugely difficult and require gargantuan effort.  How well the Church or Christianity helps us bear our burdens (and we all have them, to be sure) depends on a number of factors, not the least of which is our own willingness to name and claim our sinful urges, and especially our sinful acts, and to repent of them--if necessary, over and over again. 

I don't think homosexuality is one of the basic human instincts, I think sexuality in general is one of the basic human instincts.  To attempt to suppress our sexuality is incredibly difficult as is evidenced by our modern sexcrazed society.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #75 on: May 02, 2013, 11:20:02 AM »

I truly do not envy those who struggle with homosexual urges.  It would be a constant fight against one of nature's most basic instincts.  I can't even begin to imagine the guilt and frustration in that struggle and I think if we are honest with ourselves, I don't think the Church or Christianity in general does a very good job of helping them bear that burden.

I agree with you (though I'm not entirely certain that homosexual activity is one of nature's most basic instincts--I just do not know).  The struggle against many (all??) sinful urges can be hugely difficult and require gargantuan effort.  How well the Church or Christianity helps us bear our burdens (and we all have them, to be sure) depends on a number of factors, not the least of which is our own willingness to name and claim our sinful urges, and especially our sinful acts, and to repent of them--if necessary, over and over again. 

I don't think homosexuality is one of the basic human instincts, I think sexuality in general is one of the basic human instincts.  To attempt to suppress our sexuality is incredibly difficult as is evidenced by our modern sexcrazed society.

Amen to that!

So...and here's the (or another) difficult part for us as Christians, we need to keep God in our lives and open ourselves to His healing through the Church and the sacraments, and re-order our lives in accordance with His will, rather than constantly insisting on acting upon our own will.  Gee, that was sooo easy to say  angel Grin!
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,268



« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2013, 12:02:07 PM »

The only threat that I perceive to that which you claim does not exist is...........................gay pandas.

Gay pandas are a problem, though. Pandas are on the verge of extinction. Homosexuality doesn't exactly help.

Are there any evolutionary theories to account for homosexuality? How would it be an advantage to have a homosexual group in any given population?



Yes. There are many instances of this in nature. Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
But did not the rest of creation fall when Adam sinned?

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2013, 12:26:17 PM »

The only threat that I perceive to that which you claim does not exist is...........................gay pandas.

Gay pandas are a problem, though. Pandas are on the verge of extinction. Homosexuality doesn't exactly help.

Are there any evolutionary theories to account for homosexuality? How would it be an advantage to have a homosexual group in any given population?



Yes. There are many instances of this in nature. Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
But did not the rest of creation fall when Adam sinned?

In Christ,
Andrew

This is what I have been taught.
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #78 on: May 02, 2013, 03:51:18 PM »

Yes, homosexuality is a choice. If it was not a choice, then "conversion therapy", which tries to change one's sexual orientation would be nonsensical. The arguments for homosexuality not being a choice are the same as the arguments that autism cannot be cured. BTW, autistic people can change and live as normal people. If they are married and have a normal lifestyle, they are non-autistic for all practical intents and purposes, and should not have any impediments based on their former state. It is a choice whether to act on a homosexual orientation if one exists.

I have known several people who were Gay ( one fellow was "Mr. Maryland" at one time) and then decided to drop it and not be Gay anymore. Go figure.

Sure.
I also have known many couples, a surprisingly large number, where the guy is Gay but they find ways to make do and be happy.

I have a Woman friend who got dumped by her hubby. A few years later she found a girlfriend and moved in with her. I asked if she had always been Homosexual and she said no, but that this arrangement suits her now.

When I mentioned her in passing to a Gay relative of mine he got angry and insisted that you are born Homosexual. He was really offended that it was just a choice she made late in life..Spoiled the standard narrative I guess.

My Aunt was married for many years and had two kids. He died..she got a girlfriend and they lived together for many years..They broke up and now she has remarried a Man..

Interesting, Marc.  I think this might prove what I've always thought; that some choose to be homosexual, while others are born that way.  

People can be born with a strong desire. Desires can be controlled if you want to bad enough. You are born as either a Man or a Woman. There is no third type of person.

Sure.

Is your "sure" the kind of "sure" that is in agreement with Marc's statement?  Or is it, as I'm tending to think it might be, the skeptical, sarcastic kind of "sure" that is attempting to mock his statement?

In either case, Marc is correct.  Well, almost, anyway....if one takes this into consideration.  But whether he's right or wrong is, for the purposes of this thread almost irrelevant.  Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  Except in cases of rape, how could it be otherwise?

Marc cannot be "almost" correct.  He made a statement that you are either born a or b, when in fact there are other possibilities.  His statement is false, and therefore he is wrong.  I don't think it is irrelevant because the fact that intersex people exist gets into a whole host of issues...
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #79 on: May 02, 2013, 03:53:04 PM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice. 

I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

I didn't act on them for 22 years before getting married.  I survived.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2013, 03:54:58 PM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  

I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

I didn't act on them for 22 years before getting married.  I survived.

But it's a lot harder for homosexuals to contain their urges than it is for heteros.  They are nothing but a bunch of sex crazed junkies who literally die if they aren't having sex.  Kinda like that sharks and swimming thing.

Well, maybe not the ones I know...but they aren't "real" homosexuals.

No, but there is a qualitative difference between saying "Wait until you get married," versus "Never do it."
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2013, 03:57:58 PM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  


I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

So you're saying there is no choice, that we are total unconscious slaves to our passions and lusts.  Well to the extent that we remove God from our lives, or try to be God without God, that's probably true.

As for you "dare"...I would probably fail miserably.  But, at least I act on my heterosexual urges within the context of marriage blessed by the Church.  Now...there are those who are able, with God's grace, to be celibate for many, many years.  Doesn't mean they do not have the urges, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily easy.  It just means that, with God, they can succeed in their choice not to act on them.  You see, according to the teachings of the Church, heterosexual activity within the context of marriage is not just permitted, but blessed, especially (but not only) if the purpose of it is procreation.  Homosexual activity, however, is not.  Have you read Romans, Ch. 1 lately?  Or John 15:1-7?  Or any of a number of other biblical passages?
 

Good. You act your urges out in the context of marriage blessed by the Church. Homosexuals (by and large) act out their urges outside of that context. See? No probs!

And very few people, straight or otherwise, are cut out for a life of celibacy.

The point is in the choosing whether or not to act out one's urges, homosexual or heterosexual.  If you or anyone else wants to act out your homosexual urges outside the context of marriage blessed by the Church (which, according to the Church is either the sin of fornication and/or adultery), that's your business and it's between you, your partner, and eventually, God.  Please keep it your business.  I don't need (or want) to know what goes on in someone else's bedroom.

You may not want to hear this, but I'm going to tell you what goes on in my bedroom.  90% of the time it's sleep; much of the rest I'm reading.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2013, 04:01:09 PM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  


I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

So you're saying there is no choice, that we are total unconscious slaves to our passions and lusts.  Well to the extent that we remove God from our lives, or try to be God without God, that's probably true.

As for you "dare"...I would probably fail miserably.  But, at least I act on my heterosexual urges within the context of marriage blessed by the Church.  Now...there are those who are able, with God's grace, to be celibate for many, many years.  Doesn't mean they do not have the urges, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily easy.  It just means that, with God, they can succeed in their choice not to act on them.  You see, according to the teachings of the Church, heterosexual activity within the context of marriage is not just permitted, but blessed, especially (but not only) if the purpose of it is procreation.  Homosexual activity, however, is not.  Have you read Romans, Ch. 1 lately?  Or John 15:1-7?  Or any of a number of other biblical passages?
 

Good. You act your urges out in the context of marriage blessed by the Church. Homosexuals (by and large) act out their urges outside of that context. See? No probs!

And very few people, straight or otherwise, are cut out for a life of celibacy.

The point is in the choosing whether or not to act out one's urges, homosexual or heterosexual.  If you or anyone else wants to act out your homosexual urges outside the context of marriage blessed by the Church (which, according to the Church is either the sin of fornication and/or adultery), that's your business and it's between you, your partner, and eventually, God.  Please keep it your business.  I don't need (or want) to know what goes on in someone else's bedroom.

You may not want to hear this, but I'm going to tell you what goes on in my bedroom.  90% of the time it's sleep; much of the rest I'm reading.

 Wink
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2013, 04:01:58 PM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice. 

I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

I didn't act on them for 22 years before getting married.  I survived.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

And....?
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 8,713



« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2013, 04:02:25 PM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  


I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

So you're saying there is no choice, that we are total unconscious slaves to our passions and lusts.  Well to the extent that we remove God from our lives, or try to be God without God, that's probably true.

As for you "dare"...I would probably fail miserably.  But, at least I act on my heterosexual urges within the context of marriage blessed by the Church.  Now...there are those who are able, with God's grace, to be celibate for many, many years.  Doesn't mean they do not have the urges, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily easy.  It just means that, with God, they can succeed in their choice not to act on them.  You see, according to the teachings of the Church, heterosexual activity within the context of marriage is not just permitted, but blessed, especially (but not only) if the purpose of it is procreation.  Homosexual activity, however, is not.  Have you read Romans, Ch. 1 lately?  Or John 15:1-7?  Or any of a number of other biblical passages?
 

Good. You act your urges out in the context of marriage blessed by the Church. Homosexuals (by and large) act out their urges outside of that context. See? No probs!

And very few people, straight or otherwise, are cut out for a life of celibacy.

The point is in the choosing whether or not to act out one's urges, homosexual or heterosexual.  If you or anyone else wants to act out your homosexual urges outside the context of marriage blessed by the Church (which, according to the Church is either the sin of fornication and/or adultery), that's your business and it's between you, your partner, and eventually, God.  Please keep it your business.  I don't need (or want) to know what goes on in someone else's bedroom.

You may not want to hear this, but I'm going to tell you what goes on in my bedroom.  90% of the time it's sleep; much of the rest I'm reading.

Ewww! Gross.  I didn't need to hear that!  Kiss
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,175


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2013, 04:03:43 PM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice.  


I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

So you're saying there is no choice, that we are total unconscious slaves to our passions and lusts.  Well to the extent that we remove God from our lives, or try to be God without God, that's probably true.

As for you "dare"...I would probably fail miserably.  But, at least I act on my heterosexual urges within the context of marriage blessed by the Church.  Now...there are those who are able, with God's grace, to be celibate for many, many years.  Doesn't mean they do not have the urges, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily easy.  It just means that, with God, they can succeed in their choice not to act on them.  You see, according to the teachings of the Church, heterosexual activity within the context of marriage is not just permitted, but blessed, especially (but not only) if the purpose of it is procreation.  Homosexual activity, however, is not.  Have you read Romans, Ch. 1 lately?  Or John 15:1-7?  Or any of a number of other biblical passages?
 

Good. You act your urges out in the context of marriage blessed by the Church. Homosexuals (by and large) act out their urges outside of that context. See? No probs!

And very few people, straight or otherwise, are cut out for a life of celibacy.

The point is in the choosing whether or not to act out one's urges, homosexual or heterosexual.  If you or anyone else wants to act out your homosexual urges outside the context of marriage blessed by the Church (which, according to the Church is either the sin of fornication and/or adultery), that's your business and it's between you, your partner, and eventually, God.  Please keep it your business.  I don't need (or want) to know what goes on in someone else's bedroom.

You may not want to hear this, but I'm going to tell you what goes on in my bedroom.  90% of the time it's sleep; much of the rest I'm reading.

Ewww! Gross.  I didn't need to hear that!  Kiss

Can't wait to hear what he reads  Wink.  Well, on second thought..... Grin Grin Grin
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,759


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2013, 04:28:47 PM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice. 

I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

Religiously speaking, there is no such thing as homosexuality based on "urges," you are only homosexual if you engage in homosexual acts. The urges aren't a choice--no one with half a brain would say that--but the acts are. And while resisting sexual urges us hard for EVERYONE regardless of sexual orientation, something that people should take into consideration more when condemning homosexuals, but, guess what? Homosexuals aren't the only ones who have to fight their urges, and just because it is hard is no reason to not fight them. Pedophiles, zoophiles, serial rapists and necrophiles all have "urges" that could land them in prison or dead if they ever indulged in them. Bottom line is that some people are unfortunate enough to have desires that they can't indulge in without damage--physical or spiritual. I'd like to personally kill off everyone who has ever double crossed me and have sex until my ding-dong turned black and fell off, but that doesn't mean I should or can.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Gorazd
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: The Ecumenical Patriarchate of Istanbul and Chambésy
Posts: 1,955



« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2013, 05:17:59 PM »

There is no third type of person.
True hermaphrodites?
Logged
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,254



« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2013, 05:21:32 PM »

Whichever way a person is born, whatever predispositions they have, whether they act on them or not, whether they engage in homosexual activity or not, IS a matter of choice. 

I dare you to never, ever act on your heterosexual urges if it's just a matter of choice. Maybe if people just tried this for even a year or two, they would rethink their stance on homosexuality being a choice.

Religiously speaking, there is no such thing as homosexuality based on "urges," you are only homosexual if you engage in homosexual acts. The urges aren't a choice--no one with half a brain would say that--but the acts are. And while resisting sexual urges us hard for EVERYONE regardless of sexual orientation, something that people should take into consideration more when condemning homosexuals, but, guess what? Homosexuals aren't the only ones who have to fight their urges, and just because it is hard is no reason to not fight them. Pedophiles, zoophiles, serial rapists and necrophiles all have "urges" that could land them in prison or dead if they ever indulged in them. Bottom line is that some people are unfortunate enough to have desires that they can't indulge in without damage--physical or spiritual. I'd like to personally kill off everyone who has ever double crossed me and have sex until my ding-dong turned black and fell off, but that doesn't mean I should or can.

Before we start comparing homosexual urges with those of rapists and pedophiles, let's consider something else that seems to often be overlooked in these discussions. Homosexuals, much like heterosexuals, aren't solely driven by primal sexual urges. There are many different factors at play. Many homosexuals probably desire nothing more than the intimacy, connection, affectionate love, and romance that heterosexuals also desire. Many people seem to have the erroneous idea that homosexuals are all merely anally fixated or something (I am not accusing anyone here of this, btw). So saying one can simply choose to refrain from acting on their homosexual urges is a bit simplistic. Perhaps they like to hold hands, embrace, kiss, fall in love! It's obviously not all about sex. Come on, hasn't any one watched Brokeback Mountain?!  Wink

Pedophiles, animal "lovers", and rapists have urges that involve exploiting other beings for their own perverted pleasure, and they should therefore refrain from (or be restricted from) acting these urges out.
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
montalban
Now in colour
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 1,813



« Reply #89 on: May 02, 2013, 06:00:27 PM »

Ah yes, I remember reading that in the Saga of King TherewasnowritingbeforetheSumerians.  (You cut out the part where I mentioned civilizations.  They promote monogamy or fall apart.)

So Islamic nations that allowed polygamy weren't civilizations?
Logged

Fàilte dhut a Mhoire,
tha thu lan de na gràsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.208 seconds with 72 queries.