Author Topic: Spilling of the gifts.  (Read 1090 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bergschlawiner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 235
  • Sarisan
Spilling of the gifts.
« on: April 24, 2013, 01:55:09 AM »
During the Divine Liturgy that was televised on EWTN in Constantinople when Pope Benedict was present it was hard not to notice the amount of Eucharist that the Patriarch was spilling from the spoon during Communion, you could actually see the drops falling and no cloth was used.
 After being asked to provide proof of this claim, and not providing any proof and maintaining your claim, you are being given a 14 day warning for disparaging a member of the clergy without proof. You may appeal this decision, or provide proof of your claim to have this warning reduced or removed.

-Arimethea
Liturgy Section Moderator

Offline Adelphi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2013, 04:21:52 PM »
During the Divine Liturgy that was televised on EWTN in Constantinople when Pope Benedict was present it was hard not to notice the amount of Eucharist that the Patriarch was spilling from the spoon during Communion, you could actually see the drops falling and no cloth was used.

You're kidding me!!! Is this Patriarch Orthodox?
Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding. Prov. 23:23.

Offline davinpa

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 44
Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 07:55:53 AM »
Any proof of that???
You can't be serious...

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 12:03:53 PM »
During the Divine Liturgy that was televised on EWTN in Constantinople when Pope Benedict was present it was hard not to notice the amount of Eucharist that the Patriarch was spilling from the spoon during Communion, you could actually see the drops falling and no cloth was used.

I would normally ask for proof of this to be provided, but I know you will not find any since the recording of this event shows the opposite of what you are claiming. Please look at the 2 minute mark on Clip 6 http://www.oltv.tv/id595.html to see the deacons holding the cloth with great reverence for the holy gifts. This is a serious accusation levied against a clergyman, please retract your accusation and apologize.

-Arimethea
Liturgy Section Moderator
Joseph

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 09:08:18 PM »
During the Divine Liturgy that was televised on EWTN in Constantinople when Pope Benedict was present it was hard not to notice the amount of Eucharist that the Patriarch was spilling from the spoon during Communion, you could actually see the drops falling and no cloth was used.

You're kidding me!!! Is this Patriarch Orthodox?

Depends on whom you ask.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,900
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 09:12:41 PM »

I think it doesn't matter WHOM you ask, at all.

The man being discussed is the Ecumenical Patriarch. He is MY Patriarch.

If someone doesn't like him, that's their personal issue, but nobody can deny who he truly is.



« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 09:13:32 PM by LizaSymonenko »
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 09:27:07 PM »

I think it doesn't matter WHOM you ask, at all.

The man being discussed is the Ecumenical Patriarch. He is MY Patriarch.

If someone doesn't like him, that's their personal issue, but nobody can deny who he truly is.





Not to get into an argument, after all it was just a statement, but there are some people who have a different opinion, such as certain Old Calendarists or Old Believers.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,900
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2013, 07:33:06 AM »

Let me try to explain my comment, because it seems to have gone over the heads of some readers. (Shanghaiski, this is not aimed at you.)

The fact that someone claims that perhaps the Patriarch of a rather large portion of the Orthodox Church, is in fact, not a Patriarch at all, warrants some defense.

You may not like the man, you may not like his policies, leadership style, etc.  However, he is still the Patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and deserves some respect. 

The fact that there's a handful of people who may not approve, does not negate his status.

There are people in this world who claim that Christ is not the Messiah....should we, as part of the EO, support their mistaken notions as well?

This is an Orthodox Forum, and canonical Orthodoxy ought to be defended.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2013, 07:45:21 AM »
This is an Orthodox Forum, and canonical Orthodoxy ought to be defended.

What "canonical" Orthodoxy? Have you forgot who our owner is?

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,900
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2013, 07:47:03 AM »

No, I have not.

I would never say anything against his hierarchs, and I believe he would not against mine.

As strange as the notion may appear to you, I choose to respect others.

By defending my Patriarch, I am in no way disrespecting anyone's hierarch.



« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 07:50:05 AM by LizaSymonenko »
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Online Cyrillic

  • Arbiter Elegantiarum
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,648
  • Cyrillico est imperare orbi universo
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2013, 07:50:37 AM »
However, he is still the Patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and deserves some respect. 

The Patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox Church?
"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."
-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,900
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2013, 07:52:04 AM »

He is one Patriarch of THE EO.

I didn't mean the "only" one.  
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 07:52:40 AM by LizaSymonenko »
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Online Cyrillic

  • Arbiter Elegantiarum
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,648
  • Cyrillico est imperare orbi universo
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2013, 07:53:02 AM »
Have you forgot who our owner is?

This sounds like he is our slavemaster.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 07:57:52 AM by Cyrillic »
"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."
-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,900
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2013, 07:53:51 AM »

Ha ha!  I thought the same thing!   ;)
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 07:56:19 AM »
This is an Orthodox Forum, and canonical Orthodoxy ought to be defended.

What "canonical" Orthodoxy? Have you forgot who our owner is?

Knock it off! This forum has always been respectful of the position that Patriarch Bartholomew holds. Not everyone may not be in communion with him, or agree with him, but he is recognized as the Patriarch of Constantinople for a majority of the people on here. He is to be shown the same respect that an old calendarist would want his bishop to be shown, and even Oriental Orthodox bishops. While we can disagree about who is in the Church, we are all called Orthodox with legitimacy to our own claims. These discussions DO NOT BELONG IN LITURGY!

-Arimethea
Liturgy Section Moderator
Joseph

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2013, 08:28:00 PM »
Amen.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Gunnarr

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,912
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2013, 04:01:48 AM »
berg, please point out in the video where it happens

I am a demonic servant! Beware!

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2013, 09:01:44 AM »
berg, please point out in the video where it happens

He will not because he can not, since it does not exist. This is why he was given a Green Dot warning.
Joseph

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,811
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2013, 09:04:17 AM »
berg, please point out in the video where it happens

He will not because he can not, since it does not exist. This is why he was given a Green Dot warning.
Man oh man. Folks love to beat up on the Patriarch.....he's a Mason, a spiller of the gifts, a reptioid spacealien.......give His All-Holiness a break :)

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2013, 09:35:12 AM »

Let me try to explain my comment, because it seems to have gone over the heads of some readers. (Shanghaiski, this is not aimed at you.)

The fact that someone claims that perhaps the Patriarch of a rather large portion of the Orthodox Church, is in fact, not a Patriarch at all, warrants some defense.

You may not like the man, you may not like his policies, leadership style, etc.  However, he is still the Patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and deserves some respect.  

The fact that there's a handful of people who may not approve, does not negate his status.

There are people in this world who claim that Christ is not the Messiah....should we, as part of the EO, support their mistaken notions as well?

This is an Orthodox Forum, and canonical Orthodoxy ought to be defended.


since when did holding a title of certain power entail anyone to have respect? if Hitler was our leader should we respect him anyway while a couple of gas chambers are going off in our backyard?

I like his all holiness a lot, and I pray for him.

but nobody deserves one iota of respect. thats being puritanical at worst
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 09:37:22 AM by Achronos »
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,900
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2013, 09:36:50 AM »

...not even you?

I disagree. EVERYONE deserves respect....especially our hierarchs, who are anointed and ordained to lead us.


« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 09:38:05 AM by LizaSymonenko »
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2013, 09:38:57 AM »
...not even you.
i am not in any position of authority, but thats entirely my point.

i respect a lot of people because they have done something to earn it from me.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2013, 09:40:05 AM »

...not even you?

I disagree. EVERYONE deserves respect....especially our hierarchs, who are anointed and ordained to lead us.



even liars and charlatans that coerce and destroy other people for their benefit?

whatever ya say.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,900
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2013, 09:42:10 AM »

...not even you?

I disagree. EVERYONE deserves respect....especially our hierarchs, who are anointed and ordained to lead us.



even liars and charlatans that coerce and destroy other people for their benefit?

whatever ya say.

....are you saying this of the Patriarch?
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2013, 09:44:00 AM »
not at all. I hold his all holiness in very high esteem. he is a good patriarch.

but you said "everyone" and i don't possibly see how that can be true
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,350
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2013, 11:43:35 AM »

...not even you?

I disagree. EVERYONE deserves respect....especially our hierarchs, who are anointed and ordained to lead us.



+1
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,811
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
Re: Spilling of the gifts.
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2013, 10:51:29 AM »
Sorry, everyone should be treated politely, but I only treat people with respect who earn it. There is a huge difference.

For the record, The Patriarch would be treated with tremendous respect, as I respect the man, AND his office.

PP
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 10:52:16 AM by primuspilus »
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker