Author Topic: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?  (Read 2044 times)

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Offline Gunnarr

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/09/feminism-destroy-russia-patriarch-kirill

I decided to post it here instead of christian news ;)

but anyway, what is your opinion on feminism and orthodox view on it.

Have fun reading the comments on that article
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Yes, I am part of a secret plot to destroy Russia, because I went to school and got a job. How did he guess?
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Offline JamesR

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What are my thoughts on it? Anyone who believes that joke-for-a-Patriarch's word is plain silly. This is the same guy who wears $10,000+ watches and tries to lie about it to the public through laughably bad photoshopping. In fact, due to the Russian Church's long history of being too involved with the state, I am very hesitant to take anything they say seriously unless another jurisdiction or Patriarch supports it.
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Offline orthonorm

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What are my thoughts on it? Anyone who believes that joke-for-a-Patriarch's word is plain silly.

Will JamesR's Patrisnark know no end?
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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What are my thoughts on it? Anyone who believes that joke-for-a-Patriarch's word is plain silly. This is the same guy who wears $10,000+ watches and tries to lie about it to the public through laughably bad photoshopping. In fact, due to the Russian Church's long history of being too involved with the state, I am very hesitant to take anything they say seriously unless another jurisdiction or Patriarch supports it.

Again, you do not have to resort to name calling to make your point. We are not in kindergarden here, are we?

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Russian interests would better be served by lecturing the men, not just the women.

As I have heard, from people who live there....men drink too much, slap their women around, often abandon their families, etc.

The family "unit" consists of two responsible parents.  BOTH need to be educated, supported and loved.

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Offline Punch

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I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Aindriú

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I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

If we have anyone to reform in 50 years. Feminism didn't just make it 'ok' for women to get higher education and a job, it made it a requisite and the norm. This has equated to low birth rates all over the world the cultural trend has spread.

2 kids? better make it 1. I can't handle anymore and have my career...

I'm going to need this.

Offline Shiny

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I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

If we have anyone to reform in 50 years. Feminism didn't just make it 'ok' for women to get higher education and a job, it made it a requisite and the norm. This has equated to low birth rates all over the world the cultural trend has spread.

2 kids? better make it 1. I can't handle anymore and have my career...
Agreed with both.

It's been the destruction of the family.

It is a shame we are in a two income sort of society now.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 09:15:21 PM by Achronos »
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Offline orthonorm

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I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

If we have anyone to reform in 50 years. Feminism didn't just make it 'ok' for women to get higher education and a job, it made it a requisite and the norm. This has equated to low birth rates all over the world the cultural trend has spread.

2 kids? better make it 1. I can't handle anymore and have my career...
Agreed with both.

It's been the destruction of the family.

The family never existed. It's OK. Destroying non-existent idols should get some Christian reward of some sort.

With that I am out. Good night.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 09:21:11 PM »
...The family never existed....

*Hides in corner with popcorn*

You're really in for it now, just wait till J Michael and Charles Martel see this post...  ;D
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.

Offline Tommelomsky

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 09:26:12 PM »
I agree with reply #5.
It takes family to make a unit work.

Let us pray for Russia and that God helps them restore the true familyvalues.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 12:24:16 AM »
I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

I agree a lot with Punch's statement here, and the Patriarch.   I do think that Feminism is a great downfall to our country, brought women out of the home (often to be raised by strangers), and we've seen a heavy moral decline in our country since its main "inception years".

For JamesR, I do agree with the frustration that you feel for him, however, its not always a good practice to denounce all of somebody's opinions based on some of their actions.  Many on this forum do not agree with me on several topics, but many would agree with other parts of my life as I would theirs.  Though I would disagree with him having costly array & covering it up, I would not consider him to be a joke of any sorts.  He's a fallible man and I as well.   I disagree with him being involved with ecumenism, but that doesn't mean he would be erroneous that - stealing is wrong, feminism is bad, and we should all have forgiveness. Just saying brother, it's important to try to read each thing at face value.  Though I detest ecumenism (as it personally harmed me), there are other qualities and wisdom that can be missed by ignoring all from him. 

I do find it an admirable quality that during the times where feminism is widely accepted, that he (in a powerful position) would speak out against it so strongly.
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 01:33:01 AM »
I will give my opinion now.

I do not like feminism that goes so far to look down upon those who are mothers, making it seem better to be single and becoming powerful as an independent.

I disagree that "family" never existed. I do not see where that is coming from. Perhaps Orthonorm can explain more
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2013, 01:55:03 AM »
I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

If we have anyone to reform in 50 years. Feminism didn't just make it 'ok' for women to get higher education and a job, it made it a requisite and the norm. This has equated to low birth rates all over the world the cultural trend has spread.

2 kids? better make it 1. I can't handle anymore and have my career...
Agreed with both.

It's been the destruction of the family.

The family never existed. It's OK. Destroying non-existent idols should get some Christian reward of some sort.

With that I am out. Good night.
Families never existed? You gotta explain that one to me.
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2013, 02:34:19 AM »
I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

If we have anyone to reform in 50 years. Feminism didn't just make it 'ok' for women to get higher education and a job, it made it a requisite and the norm. This has equated to low birth rates all over the world the cultural trend has spread.

2 kids? better make it 1. I can't handle anymore and have my career...
Agreed with both.



I second both posts as well.


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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2013, 02:38:35 AM »
I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

If we have anyone to reform in 50 years. Feminism didn't just make it 'ok' for women to get higher education and a job, it made it a requisite and the norm. This has equated to low birth rates all over the world the cultural trend has spread.

2 kids? better make it 1. I can't handle anymore and have my career...
Agreed with both.

It's been the destruction of the family.

The family never existed. It's OK. Destroying non-existent idols should get some Christian reward of some sort.

With that I am out. Good night.
Families never existed? You gotta explain that one to me.


The whole "family" thing was a hoax cooked up by Dr. James Dobson and the evangelical fundies. The family is a bourgeois anachronism.

(Just anticipating Orthonorm's response here.)  ;)


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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2013, 03:39:04 AM »
Quote
brought women out of the home (often to be raised by strangers)

Actually, this is not something new. It happened a long time before feminism.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 03:47:03 AM by Ansgar »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2013, 08:15:49 AM »
I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

If we have anyone to reform in 50 years. Feminism didn't just make it 'ok' for women to get higher education and a job, it made it a requisite and the norm. This has equated to low birth rates all over the world the cultural trend has spread.

2 kids? better make it 1. I can't handle anymore and have my career...
Agreed with both.

It's been the destruction of the family.

The family never existed. It's OK. Destroying non-existent idols should get some Christian reward of some sort.

With that I am out. Good night.
Families never existed? You gotta explain that one to me.

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline Velsigne

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2013, 03:35:52 AM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/09/feminism-destroy-russia-patriarch-kirill

I decided to post it here instead of christian news ;)

but anyway, what is your opinion on feminism and orthodox view on it.

Have fun reading the comments on that article

What? 

I thought  Soviet Women Told Heavy Work to End back in '56!


But still in '67, no change as Russian Women Toil as Men Watch

So what is the difference now in Russia since the Patriarch Kiril noticed 'feminism' (whatever that is in Russia) back in the 70s?  Are the women finally demanding that the guys quit leaning on their shovels and get to work, no more komrade baloney? 

It's possible that article might be referring to some cultural going on, and not being well understood, it's not relayed too well.  Wonder what it really means, or if it is accurate.  He says the women should be focused on the home, but still have jobs outside the home, but have their priorities straight.  That doesn't seem really clear.  For a working woman with a family it is always work, then more work at home.  Same for many men who participate in home life. 

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2013, 04:04:40 AM »
Let's allow Ali G to weigh in on the subject: (Warning: slightly graphic material)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dyLSstqMvH8

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/52086/ali_g_feminism/



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Offline Ebor

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2013, 08:52:48 AM »
What definitions of "feminism" do people mean please, for an attempt at clarity?

Ansgar - Agreed. Real history of how people and cultures and different levels of society did things applies.
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Offline JoeS2

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2013, 09:15:08 AM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/09/feminism-destroy-russia-patriarch-kirill

I decided to post it here instead of christian news ;)

but anyway, what is your opinion on feminism and orthodox view on it.

Have fun reading the comments on that article

Gee, it hasn't affected us her in the USA......or has it? 

Offline NightOwl

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2013, 09:50:36 AM »
I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

If we have anyone to reform in 50 years. Feminism didn't just make it 'ok' for women to get higher education and a job, it made it a requisite and the norm. This has equated to low birth rates all over the world the cultural trend has spread.

2 kids? better make it 1. I can't handle anymore and have my career...

I frankly don't see how more women going to college could be anything but a positive development.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2013, 09:58:51 AM »
Agreed, NightOwl.  How is getting some education a problem?  I think this goes along with what do various people actually *mean* when they use the word "feminism".
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline Velsigne

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2013, 10:01:24 AM »
What definitions of "feminism" do people mean please, for an attempt at clarity?

Ansgar - Agreed. Real history of how people and cultures and different levels of society did things applies.

That's a good question.  I've been wondering that since I started reading on this forum.  The word is frequently tossed around, but I don't know what they are talking about.

Maybe there should be a sticky with a dictionary that everyone can enter their own definition for reference.



Offline Ebor

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2013, 10:16:35 AM »
What definitions of "feminism" do people mean please, for an attempt at clarity?

Ansgar - Agreed. Real history of how people and cultures and different levels of society did things applies.

That's a good question.  I've been wondering that since I started reading on this forum.  The word is frequently tossed around, but I don't know what they are talking about.

Maybe there should be a sticky with a dictionary that everyone can enter their own definition for reference.

Yes, the term is often just put out, and sometimes in variations that are intentionally insulting or disdainful. That can come across as slapping a label on something that the speaker/writer doesn't like, without any explanation of whats or whys.  So trying to find out just what some people mean could at least make some things more clear. 

This has been going on for a long time, btw.  The author Rebecca West wrote in 1913:

"I myself have never been able to find out what feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute."

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline haydukovich

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2013, 10:40:11 AM »
Look at the United States

Feminism is someone who is all about ME ME ME -

Distorted Sexuality - just read 1 issue of Cosmopolitan

Tremendous upheaval in familial values

single parent households where MOST suffer economic hardships (we are not all as wealthy as Jody Foster or other starlets

B**tc*  HO and other derogatory terms very very common even amongst the women themselves

If you are a conservative republican woman = with high moral values you are looked down upon and attacked.

I say women should turn to the Lord Jesus Christ - cover up their bodies - quit trying to be "Model" perfect
Start trying to be pleasant to men and husbands and each other in HUMILITY  and wear veils in church and cover their shoulders in church
no cleavage in church  ETC.  quit trying to be sexy and cover up -  and don't "give it up so easy"

AS I SAID REAL FEMINISM would be a return to MORAL behavior and result in higher respect for women
but it won't happen - The lure of the passions outweighs prudence.

Patriarch Kirill is 100% accurate



Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2013, 11:31:55 AM »
I think that we have to be careful here. It seems to me that this word "feminism" means different things to different folks.

If it means radical feminism, I would certainly agree with Patriarch Kirill.

If it means the right of women to work outside of home, I would not agree, unless a woman elevates her career over her other roles in a radical and self-conscious way. OTOH, that is a problem for men as well; one should not place a career over Church and family. Indeed, I submit that men are more guilty of this than women.

If it means the right of women to emulate the worst traits and practices of men in the name of equality, I would agree with HH Kirill.

If it means the right of women not to be raped, beaten, abused and otherwise maltreated by men, I would not agree.

Offline vamrat

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2013, 11:52:15 AM »
I think that we have to be careful here. It seems to me that this word "feminism" means different things to different folks.

If it means radical feminism, I would certainly agree with Patriarch Kirill.

If it means the right of women to work outside of home, I would not agree, unless a woman elevates her career over her other roles in a radical and self-conscious way. OTOH, that is a problem for men as well; one should not place a career over Church and family. Indeed, I submit that men are more guilty of this than women.

How exactly are men more guilty than women?  I think that there is an expectation of a man to put a lot of effort into their career.  When we chose to listen to women over God and eat that tasty apple/pomegranate He cursed us to toil away our lives tilling the fields and selling pumps and boilers.  Heck, even last night when I was trying to put Church and God before work at the Pre-Sanctified liturgy pretending that I was a reader, I was reminded of work yet again:

Man shall go forth unto his work, to labour until the evening.

I guess it is a matter of enjoyment.  If you like Church more than work then putting work ahead of going to Church is just another part of the curse.

The problem with women working outside the home is that it doubled the work force, depressing wages, and now they HAVE to work outside the home.  If they really want to then cool.  Perhaps it's only fitting that they suffer at work since technology has made it so less die in childbirth, and men no longer rule over women as God punished them to.

Quote
If it means the right of women to emulate the worst traits and practices of men in the name of equality, I would agree with HH Kirill.

I'm with ya, and his Patriachness.  (Eminence?  Or is that just vanilla Bishops?)

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If it means the right of women not to be raped, beaten, abused and otherwise maltreated by men, I would not agree.

That's not feminism.  That's called being a decent human being.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2013, 12:48:07 PM »
That's not feminism.  That's called being a decent human being.

Unfortunately, in quite a few societies, it's mainly feminists who recognize this. It often takes a feminist, for instance, to point out that when a woman is raped, she is not the one to blame.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 12:49:16 PM by Iconodule »
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Offline Nicene

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2013, 03:20:16 PM »
Can't say I'm against women getting a job, I understand this viewpoint, but I think there are much more dangerous forms of fenimism to speak against.
Thank you.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2013, 03:30:06 PM »
I'm going to be honest here, most men--especially in Mexican communities--are abusive, alcoholic and neglecting. I support feminism at least to the degree of promoting women to develop job skills and learning how to be self-sufficient. That way, she won't be tied down to an abusive husband if she ever finds herself in this situation. I don't want my sister being totally dependent on a man (yet I wouldn't mind a woman being totally dependent on me, funny how double standards work).
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 03:30:35 PM by JamesR »
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.

Offline vamrat

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2013, 04:02:47 PM »
I'm going to be honest here, most men--especially in Mexican communities--are abusive, alcoholic and neglecting. I support feminism at least to the degree of promoting women to develop job skills and learning how to be self-sufficient. That way, she won't be tied down to an abusive husband if she ever finds herself in this situation. I don't want my sister being totally dependent on a man (yet I wouldn't mind a woman being totally dependent on me, funny how double standards work).

Advise your sister not to marry an abusive turd.  That's one of the problems with the "bad boy" phenomenon.  When a girl goes with a trashy guy, it's not really all that surprising when he's, well, a piece of trash.  If women only dated decent men then 1.) men in general would have to change their behaviours or be alone, and 2.) eventually they would die out.

Evolution, yo!
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2013, 05:22:52 PM »
I agree 100% with HH Patriarch KIRILL because I understand him to be speaking of 'radical' feminism.  I base this on the fact that he stated he believes women have the right to work and own businesses as well as run for public office.  It's a shame that some of you missed that.  Radical feminism views motherhood as servitude and that children are a burden.  It also teaches that women do not need men; a viewpoint that runs contrary to Christianity as taught in Genesis.  Radical feminism runs completely contrary to Orthodox Christianity. 

Here's an article I ran across written by the daughter of a famous Radical feminist.  It was eye opening and, I believe, underscore's HH's words. 


 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1021293/How-mothers-fanatical-feminist-views-tore-apart-daughter-The-Color-Purple-author.html

How My Mother's Fanatical Views Tore Us Apart

She's revered as a trail-blazing feminist and author Alice Walker touched the lives of a generation of women. A champion of women's rights, she has always argued that motherhood is a form of servitude. But one woman didn't buy in to Alice's beliefs  -  her daughter, Rebecca, 38.
Here the writer describes what it was like to grow up as the daughter of a cultural icon, and why she feels so blessed to be the sort of woman 64-year-old Alice despises  -  a mother.


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Offline Punch

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2013, 05:35:29 PM »
I'm going to be honest here, most men--especially in Mexican communities--are abusive, alcoholic and neglecting. I support feminism at least to the degree of promoting women to develop job skills and learning how to be self-sufficient. That way, she won't be tied down to an abusive husband if she ever finds herself in this situation. I don't want my sister being totally dependent on a man (yet I wouldn't mind a woman being totally dependent on me, funny how double standards work).

Well, what do you expect?  There are some who believe that the only purpose for a Mexican man is to help produce those beautiful Mexican woman for white guys that treat them right.

Did I just write that?  Man, I must be reading too many of your posts . . . :)
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Arachne

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2013, 05:46:43 PM »
I'm going to be honest here, most men--especially in Mexican communities--are abusive, alcoholic and neglecting. I support feminism at least to the degree of promoting women to develop job skills and learning how to be self-sufficient. That way, she won't be tied down to an abusive husband if she ever finds herself in this situation. I don't want my sister being totally dependent on a man (yet I wouldn't mind a woman being totally dependent on me, funny how double standards work).

Well, what do you expect?  There are some who believe that the only purpose for a Mexican man is to help produce those beautiful Mexican woman for white guys that treat them right.

Did I just write that?  Man, I must be reading too many of your posts . . . :)

Board toast to Salma Hayek's padre? ;)
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2013, 05:50:52 PM »
I'm going to be honest here, most men--especially in Mexican communities--are abusive, alcoholic and neglecting. I support feminism at least to the degree of promoting women to develop job skills and learning how to be self-sufficient. That way, she won't be tied down to an abusive husband if she ever finds herself in this situation. I don't want my sister being totally dependent on a man (yet I wouldn't mind a woman being totally dependent on me, funny how double standards work).

Well, what do you expect?  There are some who believe that the only purpose for a Mexican man is to help produce those beautiful Mexican woman for white guys that treat them right.

Did I just write that?  Man, I must be reading too many of your posts . . . :)

Board toast to Salma Hayek's padre? ;)

Yes.  A great economist he was!
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2013, 05:52:27 PM »
Yes, I am part of a secret plot to destroy Russia, because I went to school and got a job. How did he guess?
Why don't you try reading an article before commenting.

"He said he was not opposed to women pursuing careers in politics or business or other professions "that today are mainly done by men", but said they should get their priorities straight."
 

This is always the reactionary response on the Left about anything that makes them feel the least bit threatened.

Anyway, I totally agree with the Patriarch.

I think Russia is just about the last place on Earth that white men can speak frankly.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2013, 05:58:37 PM »
I agree with the Patriarch.  Feminism has pretty much ruined this country.  However, I think that Feminism is one of the least problems that Russia needs to get its hands around, and I agree with Liza that the men probably need to be worked on first.  Feminism, or at least what is commonly known as such, is not necessary where men act like Christians and faithfully and honorably fulfill their role in society.  Attacking Feminism without cleaning up some of the other ills is putting the cart before the horse.

If we have anyone to reform in 50 years. Feminism didn't just make it 'ok' for women to get higher education and a job, it made it a requisite and the norm. This has equated to low birth rates all over the world the cultural trend has spread.

2 kids? better make it 1. I can't handle anymore and have my career...
Agreed with both.

It's been the destruction of the family.

The family never existed. It's OK. Destroying non-existent idols should get some Christian reward of some sort.

With that I am out. Good night.
Ae you sure you're a Christian?



Wait a minute, even pagans and infidels have always valued the family.

Only Satan despises it.

Hmmm.
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Offline Punch

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2013, 06:18:01 PM »
I'm going to be honest here, most men--especially in Mexican communities--are abusive, alcoholic and neglecting. I support feminism at least to the degree of promoting women to develop job skills and learning how to be self-sufficient. That way, she won't be tied down to an abusive husband if she ever finds herself in this situation. I don't want my sister being totally dependent on a man (yet I wouldn't mind a woman being totally dependent on me, funny how double standards work).

Well, what do you expect?  There are some who believe that the only purpose for a Mexican man is to help produce those beautiful Mexican woman for white guys that treat them right.

Did I just write that?  Man, I must be reading too many of your posts . . . :)

Board toast to Salma Hayek's padre? ;)







Yes - Salma that is . . . and I don't mean "hit" in the way that Marc would take it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 06:21:09 PM by Punch »
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline stanley123

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2013, 07:20:52 PM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/09/feminism-destroy-russia-patriarch-kirill

I decided to post it here instead of christian news ;)

but anyway, what is your opinion on feminism and orthodox view on it.

Have fun reading the comments on that article
As it has in the West, feminism might affect the attitudes of some people in Russia toward the traditional family and  traditional family values. However, I don't think that it would destroy Russia. 

Offline Ebor

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2013, 07:22:18 PM »
I think that we have to be careful here. It seems to me that this word "feminism" means different things to different folks.

If it means radical feminism, I would certainly agree with Patriarch Kirill.

If it means the right of women to work outside of home, I would not agree, unless a woman elevates her career over her other roles in a radical and self-conscious way. OTOH, that is a problem for men as well; one should not place a career over Church and family. Indeed, I submit that men are more guilty of this than women.

If it means the right of women to emulate the worst traits and practices of men in the name of equality, I would agree with HH Kirill.

If it means the right of women not to be raped, beaten, abused and otherwise maltreated by men, I would not agree.

Indeed, Carl, it does seem to have different meanings.  One question is do some of the meanings have real examples?  Or is the term meant to be some kind of insult directed at persons who the speaker/writer doesn't like?  And then there are the modifiers like "radical".  For some who wrote the impression is that any form is to be declared as terrible.  How do assertions like it is all about "me me me" have anything to do with real human beings?

So what is a "radical feminist" as opposed to one who is not?
How are people who try to stop rape, abuse and maltreatment of others doing things that are not "moral"?  Setting up a "straw woman" doesn't make a case nor address some of the very real problems and concerns such as those that you mentioned.

What are real meanings of the term rather that slurs?  

and in history there have been plenty of women who were quite moral who also expressed sentiments that "differentiated them from a doormat"
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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2013, 08:22:47 PM »

I think Russia is just about the last place on Earth that white men can speak frankly.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

And I think I'm pretty glad that I don't know any more about you than I do on this board.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Feminism could destroy Russia, Patriarch Kirill claims. You're opinion?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2013, 09:39:23 PM »
I think that we have to be careful here. It seems to me that this word "feminism" means different things to different folks.

If it means radical feminism, I would certainly agree with Patriarch Kirill.

If it means the right of women to work outside of home, I would not agree, unless a woman elevates her career over her other roles in a radical and self-conscious way. OTOH, that is a problem for men as well; one should not place a career over Church and family. Indeed, I submit that men are more guilty of this than women.

If it means the right of women to emulate the worst traits and practices of men in the name of equality, I would agree with HH Kirill.

If it means the right of women not to be raped, beaten, abused and otherwise maltreated by men, I would not agree.

I agree with you, and disagree too.

I do not believe that women should work outside of the home (IF POSSIBLE)

Titus 2:3-4
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Women who are submissive of course, does not mean a man should beat them.  The scriptures tell us to "love our wives as ourselves".

Feminism often brings a woman out of a home, away from her children.  It subjects her to the toils of the world, thus making her not a "keeper at home".

Unmarried women in tradition, would remain at her father's home, until wed.

Today in our complex world things should not entirely be different.  IF it is possible for a woman to be at home with her parents until marriage, I would believe that is a good way.  IF it is not possible, I believe she should have every opportunity in the workplace as anybody else.   IF she is married, I believe she absolutely should be at home if at all possible (either keeping home, raising children, or both).    IF a woman has a career, and marries, then I believe she should then terminate her career, to be a keeper at home and/or mother.   (Yes even if she is a doctor) I KNOW this is NOT always possible, but in general, I think this is a great way to go.

As posted above, the scriptures speak of the lessons the older women leave to younger women.  It's a beautiful plan which God has made for us.

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